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    Default War for Honor, for Hope, for Peace. [3.5][Peach]

    War. A paridoxically dynamically changing series of events that never changes. Nations fight, and the commoners suffer. Magic sunders the land and lays low many lives. Veterans are left without home or place in life, and they question why they serve. From these questions rose an idea, what if there was someone who fought for the common people, who defended against the tyrannies of nations and mage. The first paladins rose from these ideas, unshakable in conviction, believing in the commonfolk, and fighting against corrupt and destructive power.

    When war came again, the first paladins saw the tyrannical wizards again paying no heed to the lives of those in their armies, sacrificing them to summon powerful demons and to command as undead warriors. These wizards were to learn that where fear and spell ruled, hope now stood fast. That Tyranny was no weapon of war, but a flag to call forth the holy fury of the heavens.



    "Where Tyranny rules, Justice shall revolt
    Who Fear holds, Hope shall free
    Which Cruelty torments, Mercy shall reach
    When Suffering spreads, I bring Release
    Where Darkness Reigns, Light shall Conquer
    Paladin"
    ~ Oath of the True Lightbringer Paladin order.


    Gameplay Information:
    Attributes: A paladin Favors strength, as it allows them better accuracy, spell DCs, and spellcasting. Constitution for health and fortitude saves, and Charisma for saves, smite bonuses, and spells. Dexterity improves the paladin's reflex saves, AC, and Innitive.
    Alignment: Any Good
    Hit Die: 1d10
    Starting Age: Moderate
    Starting Gold: 150gp

    Paladin
    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |1st|2nd|3rd|4th

    1st|+1|+2|+0|+2|Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Smite Evil 1/Encounter|—|—|—|—

    2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3|Divine Grace, Lay on Hands|—|—|—|—

    3rd|+3|+3|+1|+3|Aura of Resolve, Enduring Personality|—|—|—|—

    4th|+4|+4|+1|+4|Mercy, Battle Blessing, Mettle, Spell Shatter 1/day|3|—|—|—

    5th|+5|+4|+1|+4|Divine Spirit, Immortal Stance 1/day|3|—|—|—

    6th|+6/+1|+5|+2|+5|Bonus Feat, Turn undead|4|—|—|—

    7th|+7/+2|+5|+2|+5|Measure of Conviction|4|—|—|—

    8th|+8/+3|+6|+2|+6|Mercy, Spell Shatter 2/day|4|3|—|—

    9th|+9/+4|+6|+3|+6|Sundering Smiting, Bonus Feat|4|3|—|—

    10th|+10/+5|+7|+3|+7|Smite Evil 2/Encounter|4|4|—|—

    11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+3|+7|Immortal Stance 2/day|4|4|3|—

    12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+4|+8|Mercy, Bonus Feat, Spell Shatter 3/day|4|4|4|—

    13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+4|+8|Wrathful Smiting|4|4|4|—

    14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+4|+9|Improved Mettle|5|4|4|3

    15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+5|+9|Enduring Body, Bonus Feat|5|4|4|4

    16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+5|+10|Mercy, Spell Shatter 4/day|5|5|4|4

    17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+10|Immortal Stance 3/day|5|5|5|4

    18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+11|Eternity, Bonus Feat|6|5|5|4

    19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+11|Majestic Conviction|6|6|6|5

    20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+12|Mercy, Spell Shatter 5/day, Smite Evil 3/Encounter|6|6|6|6

    [/table]

    Class Skills: Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex)
    Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) × 4
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

    Class Abilities:
    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Paladins are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, as well as a single exotic weapon. Paladins are also proficient with all types of armor (heavy, medium, and light), and with shields (except tower shields).

    Aura of Good (Ex): The power of a paladin’s aura of good (see the detect good spell) is equal to her paladin level.

    Detect Evil (Sp): At will, a paladin can use detect evil, as the spell.

    Smite Evil (Su): Once per Encounter, a paladin may attempt to smite evil with one normal attack. She adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack roll and deals additional damage equal to her strength modifier times her paladin level. If the paladin accidentally smites a creature that is not evil, the smite has no effect, and is not used up for the day.
    At 10th level, and at every ten levels thereafter, the paladin may smite evil one additional time per encounter, to a maximum of three times per day at 20th level.
    Beginning at 5th level, whenever a creature is struck by the paladin's smite evil, that creature finds it difficult to cast spells or use magical items. For one round, any attempt to complete one of these actions requires a sucessful concentration check against a DC of (10+paladin level+charisma modifier); Failure means that the action fails. If a spell was being cast, the spell or spell slot is lost. If a magic item was being activated, the attempt mearly fails. Multiple Smite Evil attempts on the same creature do not have cumulative effect.
    If a paladin has levels in a base class other then paladin, she applies 1 less point of charisma modifier to attack rolls, and multiplies her paladin level by one less then her strength modifier for damage rolls.

    Divine Grace (Su): At 2nd level, a paladin gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.

    Lay on Hands (Su): Starting at level 2, a paladin can channel 1d6+her charisma modifier positive energy damage* one time per day. For every 2 paladin levels afterwards, Lay on hands deals an additional 1d6 damage and can be used an additional time per day.
    Lay on Hands is a swift action when the paladin uses it on herself, and a standard action when used on a friendly ally. When used offensively, The paladin must succeed a melee touch attack in order for the lay on hands to take effect. If she fails, the Lay on Hands has no effect and usage is lost for the day. A Paladin must have one hand free in order to use Lay on Hands.

    *Positive Energy heals living creatures, and damages evil outsiders and undead.

    Aura of Resolve (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, a paladin is immune to compulsion effects. Each ally within 30 feet of her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against compulsion effects. This ability functions while the paladin is conscious, but not if she is unconscious or dead.

    Enduring Personality (Ex): At 3rd level, a paladin becomes immune charisma damage and drain.

    Spoiler
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    Enduring Body (Su): At 15th level, a Paladin's soul is sealed, and she can no longer suffer ability drain or damage, negative levels, or level drain.


    Battle Blessing (Ex): A Paladin can cast most of her paladin spells faster than normal. If the spell normally requires a standard action, she can cast it as a swift action. If it normally requires a full round to cast, she can cast it as a standard action. Spells with longer or shorter casting times are not affected.

    Mercies (Su): Slowly, over time, Paladins learn how to counteract more then just bleeding when the Lay on Hands. At 4th level, and every 4th level afterwards, a paladin may select a mercy from the following list, and each applies whenever she uses her Lay on Hands ability. Each mercy may be selected more then one time, so long as the paladin meets the minimum level prerequisite

    Spoiler
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    {table=head]
    Name
    |
    Mercy
    |
    Minimum Level


    Divine Influence|All variable numeric values of Lay on Hands are Maximized|20

    Divine Verdict|You may affect upto 5 targets withing 30 feet of you with your lay on hands|20

    Luck|Touched creature gets a +1 luck bonus to all rolls for 1 hour|4

    Age|Cures 1d4 negative levels|12

    Despair|As remove Curse|8

    Poison|Completely removes one poison that the touched creature suffers from|12

    Pestilence|Cures one disease the target suffers from|4

    Disorientation|Cures Confusion|4

    Sight|Cures Blindness|8

    Hearing|Cures Deafness|4

    Stone|As Stone to Flesh|16

    Wellness| Cures 1d6 attribute damage|4

    Courage|Removes Shaken, or reduces Frightened and Panicked one step.|4[/table]


    Mettle (Su): The Paladin's conviction is so strong, that she is able to shrug off magical effects that would harm her. If a Paladin makes a successful Will or Fortitude saving throw that would normally reduce the spell's effect, she suffers no effect from the spell at all. Only those spells with a Saving Throw entry of "Will partial," "Fortitude half," or similar entries can be negated through this ability.

    Spoiler
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    Improved Mettle (Su):As with Mettle, but the paladin also receives half damage on a failed Fortitude save, or partial effect on a failed Will save.


    Spellshatter (Su): Once per day, beginning at 4th level, a Paladin can choose to deliver a targeted Greater Dispel Magic with a Melee attack. The decision to use this ability must be made before the attack is rolled. If the attack misses, the ability is wasted.
    if the attack hits, treat this as if the paladin had cast Greater Dispel Magic on the creature struck, using her paladin level as her caster level.
    A paladin may use this ability an additional time each day every fourth level afterwards.

    Spells: Beginning at 4th level, a paladin gains the ability to cast a small number of divine spells, which are drawn from the paladin spell list*. A paladin must choose and prepare her spells in advance.
    To prepare or cast a spell, a paladin must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a paladin’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the paladin’s Charisma modifier.
    Like other spellcasters, a paladin can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Charisma score.

    A paladin can cast any spell she knows without preparing it ahead of time, and a Paladin knows all spells on the Paladin Spell list.

    Through 3rd level, a paladin has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, her caster level is three less then her paladin level.

    *Add the following spells to the paladin's spell list: 1st—protection from law: 2nd—haste; 3rd—magic circle against law; 4th—dispel law, freedom of movement, Anarchic Sword.

    Immortal Stance (Su): Beginning at 5th level, a paladin can take the stance of a god. For 3+Constitution modifier rounds per day, she gains a +4 divine bonus to Constitution and Armor class, Immunity to fear, and Spell resistance equal to her paladin levels +6. The increase in Constitution temporarily increases the paladin’s hit points by 2 points per level, as well as extend the duration of the paladin's immortal stance by 2 round.

    A paladin may end her immortal stance voluntarily prior to when it normally would end. At the end of her stance, the paladin is winded and takes a –2 penalty to Strength and to all Saves for the duration of that encounter.

    Spoiler
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    Eternity (Ex): At 18th level, the paladin's Immortal stance improves. It now grants +6 Constitution and armor class, and her spell resistance improves to 12+paladin level.


    Divine Spirit S-blocked for length
    Spoiler
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    Divine Spirit (Su): A Paladin beginning at 5th level can call forth the spirits of past Divine Crusaders. As a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, a Paladin can call forth a spirit from beyond the mortal realm.

    {table]Level|Spirit
    5-9|Spirit of Healing
    10-14|Spirit of Adversity
    15-19|Spirit of Heroism
    20+|Spirit of the Fallen[/table]

    Each Spirit has the following characteristics:

    A Spirit takes up a 5' space on the battlefield
    When summoned, the spirit appears within 30 feet of the paladin.
    Spirits are insubstantial and transparent, and as such do not block line of sight or line of effect. They also can be moved through as though not occupying a square.
    A spirit cannot attack or be attacked. It is not undead and cannot be turned. It is subject to dispel magic, dismissal, or banishment as if it were a summoned creature, using your paladin level as the caster level.
    If you lose line of sight to a spirit, it disappears immediately.
    You may summon one spirit per day for every 5 paladin levels you possess.
    A spirit remains for a number of rounds equal to your paladin level, until it is dismissed, or until special conditions in the spirit's description are met.

    Spirit of Healing: The First spirit a paladin can summon is the Spirit of Healing. This spirit has a number of uses of Lay on Hands as the paladin, and each lay on hands heals for 1d3 hp per paladin level. The spirit must occupy the same square as the creature it is healing though.

    Spirit of Adversity: When summoned, this spirit manifests as a pair of Angelic Wings from the paladin's back. As long as this spirit remains, a paladin gains a fly speed equal to twice her base land speed, with perfect maneuverability.

    Spirit of Heroism: This spirit automatically occupies your space and does not leave until dismissed or dispelled, or the duration of the summoning ends. You gain DR 10/--. In addition, you gain the benefit of the Diehard feat (even if you do not meet the prerequisite) and can use your lay on hands ability as a free action once per round instead of as a swift action.

    Spirit of the Fallen: At 20th level, a paladin can call fourth the mightiest of her spirits. While you or any of your allies are adjacent to this spirit, it grants fast healing 10 to those characters. If an affected character's hit points drop to 0 or fewer while within 30 feet of this spirit, it revives that character at the start of his next turn, allowing him to take his action as normal. The character heals an amount of damage equal to twice your paladin level, though if his hit points are still at -10 or below, he still dies. The spirit can use its revive ability once per round.


    Turn Undead (Su): When a paladin reaches 6th level, she gains the supernatural ability to turn undead. She may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier. She turns undead as a cleric of two levels lower would.

    Measure of Conviction (Ex): The Paladin's conviction strengthens, and she is now able to perform multiple attacks with a single use of her divine blow. Once activated, all bonuses of Smite Evil apply until the beginning of the Paladin's next turn.

    Spoiler
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    Sundering Smiting (Ex): At 9th level, A Paladin's Smite Evil is so forceful, that it ignores 5 points of damage reduction. This bonus increases by 5 every 6th level afterwards.

    Wrathful Smiting (Su): Beginning at 13th level, a paladin may sacrifice one of her uses of Smite Evil for each encounter in a day in order to deliver a massive shockwave of divine energy. As a Standard action, the paladin must succeed in performing a melee touch attack, and if she succeeds, she deals 1d6 holy damage per paladin level to each creature in a 20' burst from the struct creature.


    Majestic Conviction Graveyard and construction site
    Spoiler
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    Majestic Conviction (Su): Paladins are truly magnificent warriors, and at 19th level, their majesty takes on a conviction of its own. The paladin may discharge a use of smite evil for the encounter, and if she does, she makes a single attack as a single attack action. This attack gains Triple her charisma modifier to attack bonus, and deals 2d6 holy damage per paladin level. Creatures struck must succeed a DC (10+paladin level+Str Mod) Fortitude save or be sent flying 10" per paladin level.


    Code of Conduct: A paladin must be of a good alignment. A paladin should act with honor and respect, help those in need, and to punish those who threaten or harm the innocent. A paladin who is not of good alignment looses all Supernatural abilities until she atones.

    Paladin Afterlife: In death, a Paladin does not travel to the celestial plane of her alignment, but instead arrives at the Demiplane known as the Bastion of Righteous Hope. Here, paladins dine in magnificent mead halls, debate the best ways to fight evil, and prepare for raids on the infernal and Abyssal realms.
    Last edited by toapat; 2012-10-24 at 05:03 PM.


    My Homebrew: found here.
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  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Default Re: War for Honor, for Hope, for Peace. [3.5][Peach]

    Alright. From the beginning.

    I'm not sure I like strength-based spellcasting, as the ability section seems to imply. If they need it anyway, why not base it off charisma?

    Skills: might need more skill points, if they have such a long list.

    Smites per encounter: definitely helps. Strength modifier times level... that may well get very high. A moderate strength bonus of +7 (18 and a +6 item, or some points from levelling up) already makes this 120 damage at level 20. Use a strong race or better items, and this gets crazy.

    Improved Mettle: should say "partial effect", not "half damage".

    Mercies: The number 12 for poisons is in the wrong column.

    Overall: abilities really need to be sorted by level. This is a bit chaotic. This class gets tons and tons of abilities, and there are so many of them, I'm not sure how they all interact. It seems as if you just put in everything you could find on paladins, and I'm missing coherence a bit, really. And yet, it still seems to suffer from the classic D&D fighter problem: little to do out of combat. It ruins evils day, but otherwise can't do much but heal.
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    And strange moons circle through the skies,
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    I want more mwa-ha-haaa and much less boo-hoo-hoo.

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    Default Re: War for Honor, for Hope, for Peace. [3.5][Peach]

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Alright. From the beginning.

    I'm not sure I like strength-based spellcasting, as the ability section seems to imply. If they need it anyway, why not base it off charisma?

    Skills: might need more skill points, if they have such a long list.

    Smites per encounter: definitely helps. Strength modifier times level... that may well get very high. A moderate strength bonus of +7 (18 and a +6 item, or some points from levelling up) already makes this 120 damage at level 20. Use a strong race or better items, and this gets crazy.

    Improved Mettle: should say "partial effect", not "half damage".

    Mercies: The number 12 for poisons is in the wrong column.

    Overall: abilities really need to be sorted by level. This is a bit chaotic. This class gets tons and tons of abilities, and there are so many of them, I'm not sure how they all interact. It seems as if you just put in everything you could find on paladins, and I'm missing coherence a bit, really. And yet, it still seems to suffer from the classic D&D fighter problem: little to do out of combat. It ruins evils day, but otherwise can't do much but heal.
    1: Str based spellcasting: i used a previous savefile of the first post, i will change it to Cha now that i think about it, the smite damage is enough to compell one to strike a balance.
    2: it looks like a huge list, but it isnt nearly as huge as it seems, i should have pulled handle animal and ride off though.
    3: the endgame is called rocket-tag, combat viability is useful
    4: i was about to say you are mistaken, but i see my own mistake
    5: save state derp
    6: Ill s-block the ability improvements as well as the Mercies table, abilities are sorted by either "First Appearance" or "Improvements on prior abilities" Paladin still has a few things they can do outside of combat even before homebrew, just not in core.

    7: You should delete that double post
    Last edited by toapat; 2012-09-23 at 09:48 AM.


    My Homebrew: found here.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
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    Default Re: War for Honor, for Hope, for Peace. [3.5][Peach]

    Oh, and one minor thing... I can't say I like your Paladin afterlife too much, as an old Planescaper. The Archons really need Paladin souls so their higher ranks don't die out. And the Blessed Isles will rather lose a lot of population that way, as well.
    Extended Brewer's signature

    Strange is the night where black stars rise,
    And strange moons circle through the skies,
    But stranger still is
    Lost Carcosa.


    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    I want more mwa-ha-haaa and much less boo-hoo-hoo.

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    Default Re: War for Honor, for Hope, for Peace. [3.5][Peach]

    The Good
    1) Good Will save
    2) Per encounter Smite Evil
    3) Mercies
    4) Spellshatter: someone needs to take this role

    The Bad
    1) Smite Evil seems too scale up too much or simply not correctly. As mentioned at 20th level you have +120 damage 5 times an encounter. So you can kill everyone. At 10 level this is like +40 damage 3 times. I believe the PF version is better. You target one creature and the damage scales better.
    2) Divine Grace plus mettle plus immunities plus immortal stance will make it a too boring.
    -I prefer to go away with Divine Grace as it is too general, but keep immunities so Paladin is protected mostly against SP or SU attacks or other nasty things.
    -Immortal stance I would change not to give AC and HP. It is again a bit "I am protected from everything". I would go with HP only, the Paladin endures rather than having excellent defending skills.
    3) Too few skill points and not out-of combat class features. What does a Paladin do out of Battle except Detecting Evil? Having Bob the butcher should be less interesting than having Somingon the beacon of light, the evil dragon slayer, the protector of the weak. Yet they both will most likely be useful on two things and two things only.

    The Ugly
    1) Battle Blessing is powerful and "dumps" down the play. It kind of changes the rules that were meant for spells and to really review you need to think about all the spells and how the reduced time affects the play. Too much work. Do you really need this?
    2) Code of conduct should be more elaborate for me. It is fine as is, but it just seems that the player needs an extra push to take more this under consideration. A guideline, some examples, somethings Paladins do and not do.

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    Default Re: War for Honor, for Hope, for Peace. [3.5][Peach]

    Quote Originally Posted by Waargh! View Post
    1) Smite Evil seems too scale up too much or simply not correctly. As mentioned at 20th level you have +120 damage 5 times an encounter. So you can kill everyone. At 10 level this is like +40 damage 3 times. I believe the PF version is better. You target one creature and the damage scales better.
    2) Divine Grace plus mettle plus immunities plus immortal stance will make it a too boring.
    -I prefer to go away with Divine Grace as it is too general, but keep immunities so Paladin is protected mostly against SP or SU attacks or other nasty things.
    -Immortal stance I would change not to give AC and HP. It is again a bit "I am protected from everything". I would go with HP only, the Paladin endures rather than having excellent defending skills.
    3) Too few skill points and not out-of combat class features. What does a Paladin do out of Battle except Detecting Evil? Having Bob the butcher should be less interesting than having Somingon the beacon of light, the evil dragon slayer, the protector of the weak. Yet they both will most likely be useful on two things and two things only.
    1: oh, i forgot to turn that down, was supposed to be 3/encounter. PF doesnt have smite evil at that, it has a challenge, which isnt actually better.
    2: the only classes published that cover the anti-caster role cant do it. at all.
    3: people forget that healing is not a specifically in combat feature.
    4: Battle Blessing is an actual feat paladins have, and it is known to be one of the best, because it gives swift actions to a class that doesnt have them normally. It is possitively broken with SotAO, but i didnt return it.
    Last edited by toapat; 2012-09-23 at 01:46 PM.


    My Homebrew: found here.
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  7. - Top - End - #7
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    Default Re: War for Honor, for Hope, for Peace. [3.5][Peach]

    Let's go bit by bit:
    Chassis: it's decent, but there's one thing that should be changed. That is the little amount of skill points. 2+Int is way too little, considering the class gets a few more skills (Balance, Bluff, Climb, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge - the Planes, Perform, Swim and Tumble). In essence, you've duplicated the amount of skills the Paladin has, but kept the same amount of skill points. That's not a good idea. 4+Int is decent enough, considering that Paladins will probably dump Int and not all can be humans. That said, good Fort and Will are nice enough, and it's good that they get some defensive skills (I'd consider Balance a defensive skill) and all athletic skills.

    Smite Evil: It's nice to see it based per-encounter and with a rider effect that's great against mages, but it's sorta weak. At 5th level, a wizard will have at least 14 Con (going with a bare minimum; it might have Bear's Endurance or a +2 Health Belt) and full Concentration. That's, as a bare minimum, a +11 to Concentration checks. A Paladin will impose a save DC of 18-19 (assuming Cha 6-18); that means the Wizard will succeed on a 7 or higher. As levels increase, the Charisma bonus will increase, but the ways to get a higher Concentration bonus will increase even further. With some preparation, the Wizard will succeed on a 1, which is more than enough because it'll mean your smite attempt will be wasted. Furthermore, you don't indicate for how long the spell negation ability will last. Does it last for 1 round, or does it negate a single use of a spell/magic item?

    Lay on Hands: definitely it's stronger, and slightly more powerful. It's definitely based on the PF version, given how it increases and how it works (swift on your own, standard for allies). You also get a lot of uses per day (that means 11 uses at 20th level). It's nice as means of burst healing, with a total of 10d6+Cha healing each use (average 35+Cha). It's...not much, but it's something.

    Enduring Personality/Body: So, at 15th level, you get Death Ward for free? Not only that, you become immune to Charisma damage, Charisma drain AND the problems of age? I'm a bit ambivalent regarding immunities: they're excellent on melee, but they exacerbate the binary problem (AKA either you succeed or you fail, no intermediate effect). Death Ward and the immunity to Charisma damage make a lot of sense, but...why does negating age penalties has to apply? That last one makes no sense, whereas the former ones do (because you'll be facing undead enemies).

    Mercies: it's obvious you pretty much took it from the PF version, but I see some creativity amongst it. Mere healing rider effects are somewhat boring, but Divine Influence, Divine Verdict and Luck are excellent. Luck, in particular, should be one that every Paladin should get, if only because it heals and buffs at the same time, something that makes healing better. The others are...well, nice, but not something I'd leap at.

    Spells: aside from Freedom of Movement at 4th level and Haste at 1st (really, Haste at 4th level!?), the change isn't that impressive. It's nice that they can cast all the spells on their list, but their list isn't that impressive using Core only. It's boosted enough (you end up with 6 uses per day), but it still could use some improvement. I mean, why not have Shield of Faith as a 1st level spell? Aid at 1st level, given that by 2nd level it's no longer gonna be useful? Dispel Magic as a 1st or 2nd level spell, because at 3rd level it won't be as useful anymore? Also: Battle Blessing no longer becoming a feat tax...well, it kinda makes that feat pointless, but the Paladin pretty much needs it. The only concern I have is the spellcasting, because it could be better.

    Immortal Stance: for all it offers, it doesn't necessarily make you that "immortal". I mean, a +4 bonus to Constitution means a +2 to Fort saves and 2 hit points per level, +4 AC that stacks with everything means you won't be hit that much...but when I hear "immortal", I think of Beastland Ferocity coupled with Delay Death. Being a bit more resilient is good, but compared to other "immortality stances" such as Immortal Fortitude and Loyal Beyond Death, this one seems lacking. I mean, it's Defensive Stance, but with SR, no bonus to Strength and immunity to fear. Also; why have Aura of Resolve but no Aura of Courage? Most paladin fixes I've seen at least respect that class feature. Making it part of a stance won't help. Still: it's what I consider a proper per day use, because it lasts throughout the entire encounter and offers some serious boons.

    Spellshatter: I dunno, but I'd consider blending Spellshatter with Smite Evil. Recall that you'll get an at-will version of the ability if you get a Holy Avenger, and your Smite Evil already seems to incline towards negating spellcasting, so it makes sense. Unlike Immortal Fortitude, Spellshatter seems a bit weak for a per-day ability. You end up with 5 uses per day of Spellshatter, but you won't get a decent amount until 12th level.

    Turn Undead: why so frickin' late!? With the penalty to turning ability, by 6th level you won't be capable of dealing with the toughest of undead creatures using this ability, so it's mostly useful for divine feats. As it stands, it could be best set at 3rd level, so you can get divine feat three levels earlier. It doesn't feel like a proper class ability but rather like something added as a filler.

    Conviction: at 7th level, Smite Evil becomes a really powerful attack. I fear you just went a bit too far with the damage you can deal. I mean, by 7th level, with a Strength of 14, you deal 14 points of extra damage (what a core Paladin would deal at 14th level). Now, that damage is done twice. Wait at, say, 11th level and a Strength of 20, and all of a sudden it becomes 55 points of extra damage every three turns. With the bonus to attack from Charisma, that's essentially two successful attacks which can beat every single thing you face at that level. With some effort, you'll pull that off with only one blow. By 16th level, with four attacks (five with Haste), you'll be wasting attacks (and thus, damage), which isn't really optimization. In fact, that boost to Smite Evil kinda undermines the effect of Majestic Conviction: you're sacrificing one single attack to deal less damage than what you'd do with Smite Evil. Think of it: Majestic Conviction at 20th level would deal 20d6 holy damage, which has an average of 70 points of damage. You already deal more than that amount of damage, or at least so as long as you have a Strength of 18. If you don't have a Strength of 18 by that level, you're not doing it right. Now, I presume that the holy damage is in addition to the Smite Evil damage, which rubs the opposite way: it becomes a one-hit kill ability, which will definitely hit (I mean, three times your Charisma? With a Cha of 24-28, that means you get somewhere between a +21 to +27 bonus to attack rolls!)

    Smiting: Sundering is nice, but Awesome Smite does much better, considering you get Power Attack with it and ignores ALL DR, not just 5 points. Wrathful Smiting, on the other hand, is excellent. An area of effect smite is always good, considering the amount of damage you deal. It covers a pretty wide range, even. The sacrifice you make (you can't recover that use of Smite Evil next encounter until the next day) is reasonable enough, considering that the attack might just end the encounter in a single blow. In fact, given that you still can save a few uses per encounter, you can waste pretty much all but one use and cover all necessary battles per day by the time you reach 20th level.

    --

    All in all, it's a bit more inclined towards dealing massive damage against evil creatures and get some great defenses, but it still could get a bit more (and nerf a few things; I'd start with the absurd amount of damage you can deal, by the way). You get a lot of skills but few skill points to use them, more spells but a need for a more robust spell list...in essence, it feels like you provided a boost to something but forgot to balance it with another needed boost. It feels like boosted halfway. I'd consider adjusting a bit the damage ratio, for starters; make the spell list a bit more robust, as well, and boost the skill points per level.
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    Default Re: War for Honor, for Hope, for Peace. [3.5][Peach]

    I definitely like most of the fluff, although the anti-wizard focus doesn't really make so much sense to me (I see wizards as no more likely to be evil than any other class.)

    The mechanics really aren't my sort of style, but overall seem pretty good (I do like the immunity to CHA damage, though, and have been planning something similar for my own rebuild.)
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    Default Re: War for Honor, for Hope, for Peace. [3.5][Peach]

    Quote Originally Posted by T.G. Oskar View Post
    *snip*
    Smite Evil: I was trying to figure out what would be a good Per-day number, and was going between 5/day or 3/encounter for a while. I was trying to figure out where i wanted the x paladin level to hover and couldnt really see anything that i liked and would not result in a post of your length. Im going to add a limitation clause in that will weaken the smite (Basically, if you want 1 level of Lion Spirit Barbarian, you suffer -1 penalty to Cha and Str for the purposes of the skill.)

    Lay on Hands: you missread the Per day count, it is 10, not 11

    Enduring: part of the writing was from a certain perspective, Chronomancy in 3.5 is notably lacking, but that was the idea behind the no-aging, was to resist magical aging. that, and the way aging works is very unfair to melees

    Spells: Paladins can get haste, Ill move it up a tier though because it i didnt realize that it would be early

    Immortal Stance: I guess im on the low end of immortality, but to completely make you invincible wasnt the idea either.

    Turn Undead: I moved it back because it felt like i was frontloading too much in the first 5 levels. I wanted to change it to Turn Evil, but i wasnt sure that would be well recieved.

    Measure of Conviction: Yes, it makes the damage ridiculously good, on the other hand, it still doesnt outdo a Dungeoncrasher fighter. the smite capstone was rewritten 3 times, and i kinda gave up on the last attempt, i really didnt want the thousand foot throw.

    Smite Boosts: I didnt want Sundering to completely outshine anything else, Wrath was perhaps the most fun with a feat in writing i have had, so i decided to continue it.


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    Default Re: War for Honor, for Hope, for Peace. [3.5][Peach]

    Here we go! Time to PEACH this baby!

    Everyone has made some good points, but one thing stuck out at me:

    Attributes:
    Hm... seems pretty MAD, pretty MAD indeed. I do like that you've changed it to all be Charisma, as PF, but that's still at least three Attributes.

    I'm not sure if there's a way to fix this. Maybe there shouldn't be. But I just wanted to bring it to your attention.
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    Default Re: War for Honor, for Hope, for Peace. [3.5][Peach]

    Quote Originally Posted by SamBurke View Post
    Here we go! Time to PEACH this baby!

    Everyone has made some good points, but one thing stuck out at me:

    Attributes:
    Hm... seems pretty MAD, pretty MAD indeed. I do like that you've changed it to all be Charisma, as PF, but that's still at least three Attributes.

    I'm not sure if there's a way to fix this. Maybe there shouldn't be. But I just wanted to bring it to your attention.
    No, MAD means you have to spend in 4-6, 3 means you dont really have it either way, 2 means you are SAD


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    Default Re: War for Honor, for Hope, for Peace. [3.5][Peach]

    SAD means Single Attribute Dependent. As in, only one you really need. Everything else is MAD. Though being dependent on two or three is just light mad and not all that bad.
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    Default Re: War for Honor, for Hope, for Peace. [3.5][Peach]

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    SAD means Single Attribute Dependent. As in, only one you really need. Everything else is MAD. Though being dependent on two or three is just light mad and not all that bad.
    Only one build in the game has a true case of SAD, and that is because they use con to everything. That is why I said SAD means that you use 2 attributes.


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    Default Re: War for Honor, for Hope, for Peace. [3.5][Peach]

    I'd just differentiate between totally dependent on (as in, Has class features keyed off ability mod) and nice to have (gains a few improvement from having high ability).

    I'd call the wizard intelligence SAD. Constitution and dexterity are good to have, but not totally necessary.

    Anyway, this discussion doesn't really belong her.e

    You know what I was thinking? Maybe you should make several paths for your paladin.Your paladin has defensive features, offensive features, spirit summoning, spellcasting, buffing and anti-spellcaster features. Altogether, it seems overloaded to me.

    Have you thought about making something like sub-classes, where at first level, the paladin chooses what to focus on? So, you'd have a spirit-summoning paladin, a heal-buff paladin, a nigh-immortal defender paladin and an anti-spellcaster paladin, but any given one would be more specialized.
    Last edited by Eldan; 2012-09-24 at 07:35 AM.
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    Default Re: War for Honor, for Hope, for Peace. [3.5][Peach]

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Have you thought about making something like sub-classes, where at first level, the paladin chooses what to focus on? So, you'd have a spirit-summoning paladin, a heal-buff paladin, a nigh-immortal defender paladin and an anti-spellcaster paladin, but any given one would be more specialized.
    ive considered ACFs, but not along the line of splitting up the abilities (Restoring the Knight theme would be more along the lines of the idea). This build is based on the backstory for the Paladins in Warcraft lore, a Divine warrior who specializes in surviving and then beating the everliving ---- out of warlocks Orcish casters evil spellcasters.


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    Default Re: War for Honor, for Hope, for Peace. [3.5][Peach]

    My general 3.5 balance fix.
    My psionics remix.
    My common-sense houserules.
    More minor homebrew (weapons, races).

    Complete system remake (under construction, barely started)

    Ever want to try your hand at optimizing, but dislike heavy emphasis on splatbooks and/or the rocket tag phenomenon?
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    Default Re: War for Honor, for Hope, for Peace. [3.5][Peach]

    Quote Originally Posted by toapat View Post
    ive considered ACFs, but not along the line of splitting up the abilities (Restoring the Knight theme would be more along the lines of the idea). This build is based on the backstory for the Paladins in Warcraft lore, a Divine warrior who specializes in surviving and then beating the everliving ---- out of warlocks Orcish casters evil spellcasters.
    See, my problem with this class, as I've mentioned before, is that it has somewhere from five to seven different independent mechanical subsystems in one class. I don't know any other class which does that (maybe the monk, which also has about three different avenues of power, though there, none of them work). I simply think that's too many, especially since there seems to be little synergy between them.
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    Default Re: War for Honor, for Hope, for Peace. [3.5][Peach]

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    See, my problem with this class, as I've mentioned before, is that it has somewhere from five to seven different independent mechanical subsystems in one class. I don't know any other class which does that (maybe the monk, which also has about three different avenues of power, though there, none of them work). I simply think that's too many, especially since there seems to be little synergy between them.
    i would argue that Monk is the most mechanically united class after Fighter (achieve physical perfection). the Factotum and Initiators are much more disjointed classes then this, and that is because the disciplines typically only have a theme and range from doing things like making you a massive irritant to the battlefield and also letting you pound people into the dirt, while a factotum's desire to be in every pie is not a class focus. Half the stuff i have is standard issue improvements of abilities.


    If i had wanted to make a GWs Ritualist, i would have figured out how to build a class whose entire thing is building a solid wall and slapping holy sword on every person within half a mile.


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