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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Corpses-Я-Us: Or, Buying Dead Bodies For Fun And Profit

    Meh, animating is already pricey, but let's try this

    20xHDx Rarity(scale of 1-5, 1 being common animal(rat or bird) or common humanoid(average stats), 5 being outsider)

    So, let's say you want a normal human body.
    20x1x1= 20gp.
    On the other hand, a Janni
    20x6x5= 600gp

    Your elephant
    20x11x2= 440gp

    I think with a bit of tweaking, the formula could work. Maybe using a 10 instead of 20? That would halve the prices...
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Corpses-Я-Us: Or, Buying Dead Bodies For Fun And Profit

    Quote Originally Posted by Madara View Post
    Meh, animating is already pricey, but let's try this

    20xHDx Rarity(scale of 1-5, 1 being common animal(rat or bird) or common humanoid(average stats), 5 being outsider)

    So, let's say you want a normal human body.
    20x1x1= 20gp.
    On the other hand, a Janni
    20x6x5= 600gp

    Your elephant
    20x11x2= 440gp

    I think with a bit of tweaking, the formula could work. Maybe using a 10 instead of 20? That would halve the prices...
    Kraken corpse: 20 x 20 x 4 or so, for about 1600. I suppose it depends on how cheap you want corpses to be. It's a bit of a tricky balancing act, since you're spending lots of cash on "disposables" but also turning gold directly into shock troops with a relatively high cap. A mid-level PC can finance a decent undead army.
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Corpses-Я-Us: Or, Buying Dead Bodies For Fun And Profit

    To be fair, at low levels, a pack of dogs can be bought with starting gold and rip level appropriate encounters to shreds.
    I still like my statue idea.
    In a world with very physical gods, be wary of those who commission statues of them.
    Last edited by Ravens_cry; 2012-09-26 at 11:04 PM.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Corpses-Я-Us: Or, Buying Dead Bodies For Fun And Profit

    Who needs a statue? Just find an outcropping of Rock, Stone to Flesh, then Fabricate it yourself! Save on artisan costs.
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Corpses-Я-Us: Or, Buying Dead Bodies For Fun And Profit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    To be fair, at low levels, a pack of dogs can be bought with starting gold and rip level appropriate encounters to shreds.
    I still like my statue idea.
    In a world with very physical gods, be wary of those who commission statues of them.
    Hah, fair enough. I remember that one commoner build with a pack of Battletitans... maybe cut the cost in half then, so it's 10*HD*Rarity.
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Corpses-Я-Us: Or, Buying Dead Bodies For Fun And Profit

    Quote Originally Posted by Eurus View Post
    Hah, fair enough. I remember that one commoner build with a pack of Battletitans... maybe cut the cost in half then, so it's 10*HD*Rarity.
    Well, he has a level in Marshall too, if you're talking about Bubs.

    I don't think sonofzeal quite addressed getting the Battletitans on a 4th level character's salary though.
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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Corpses-Я-Us: Or, Buying Dead Bodies For Fun And Profit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    If you're high enough level, commission a statue, or make one yourself, of whatever you want to undertake necrolurgical engineering upon.
    Then, Stone to Flesh. It explicitly says "a statue becomes a corpse".
    I call this The Vegan Option.
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: Corpses-Я-Us: Or, Buying Dead Bodies For Fun And Profit

    Quote Originally Posted by Madara View Post
    There's so much potential for necromancers, but the undead=evil mentality limited it greatly.
    One use for undead that I haven't seen outside of my own character backgrounds is cannon-fodder in the Blood War. A neutral-ish necromancer that uses his minions to slaughter Demons and Devils, as a Malconvoker might use evil summons to do work for the greater good.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Corpses-Я-Us: Or, Buying Dead Bodies For Fun And Profit

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    ........ That's brilliant!
    Not to mention terribly confusing for your enemies.
    I am willing to bet this is why Pathfinder changed it so a statue becomes a compressed meat product instead.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Corpses-Я-Us: Or, Buying Dead Bodies For Fun And Profit

    Hang on a minute, you guys; we're not addressing the most important thing here that was, sadly, overlooked.

    How in the Nine Hells did he get a backwards "R?"

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Corpses-Я-Us: Or, Buying Dead Bodies For Fun And Profit

    Quote Originally Posted by karkus View Post
    Hang on a minute, you guys; we're not addressing the most important thing here that was, sadly, overlooked.

    How in the Nine Hells did he get a backwards "R?"
    It Я not hard.
    ***
    Open "Character Map' and go Advanced View. The select 'Windows Cyrillic' font and go hunting. It should be on the bottom somewhere, right next to a lower case a.
    Last edited by Ravens_cry; 2012-09-27 at 05:21 PM.
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  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: Corpses-Я-Us: Or, Buying Dead Bodies For Fun And Profit

    And if you use a certain character frequently the "hotkey" is alt+(ascii code on the numpad). ♪ Comprende señor? ♪ ♥
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2012-09-27 at 05:43 PM.
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Corpses-Я-Us: Or, Buying Dead Bodies For Fun And Profit

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    Who needs a statue? Just find an outcropping of Rock, Stone to Flesh, then Fabricate it yourself! Save on artisan costs.
    Unless you have an insanely high bonus to Craft: Moreaun vivisection, I think it would be easier to craft the rock into a statue of the creature and then cast Stone to Flesh.
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  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Corpses-Я-Us: Or, Buying Dead Bodies For Fun And Profit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    Unless you have an insanely high bonus to Craft: Moreaun vivisection, I think it would be easier to craft the rock into a statue of the creature and then cast Stone to Flesh.
    Polymorph Any Object obviates this.

    Same Kingdom (+5), Same Class (meat), Same Intellect (corpses don't have intellect) = permanent. Heck, it doesn't even need to be the same size. This could lead to... interesting exploits.
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  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: Corpses-Я-Us: Or, Buying Dead Bodies For Fun And Profit

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    Polymorph Any Object obviates this.

    Same Kingdom (+5), Same Class (meat), Same Intellect (corpses don't have intellect) = permanent. Heck, it doesn't even need to be the same size. This could lead to... interesting exploits.
    Yeah, but that's an 8th level spell. At the levels that becomes available, that goes from 'exploit' to merely 'quite clever'.
    Also, some DM might rule (another thing about PaO, it's a very DM sensitive spell) that the intellect is of the creature when it was alive.
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  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: Corpses-Я-Us: Or, Buying Dead Bodies For Fun And Profit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    Yeah, but that's an 8th level spell. At the levels that becomes available, that goes from 'exploit' to merely 'quite clever'.
    Also, some DM might rule (another thing about PaO, it's a very DM sensitive spell) that the intellect is of the creature when it was alive.
    I have yet to see a corpse which has an intellect. However, if your GM decides to pull this, then simply use 'equal size', and be done with it.

    Stone to Flesh to create a large quantity of meat. PAO to turn it into an equal sized corpse. Done. I cannot see any GM quibbling over this.

    Fabricate also works, since a corpse isn't something you can make with an appropriate Craft check, you don't need one.
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  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: Corpses-Я-Us: Or, Buying Dead Bodies For Fun And Profit

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    I have yet to see a corpse which has an intellect. However, if your GM decides to pull this, then simply use 'equal size', and be done with it.

    Stone to Flesh to create a large quantity of meat. PAO to turn it into an equal sized corpse. Done. I cannot see any GM quibbling over this.

    Fabricate also works, since a corpse isn't something you can make with an appropriate Craft check, you don't need one.
    Or simply make the stone into a statue and then Stone to Flesh, no need for PaO.
    Last edited by Ravens_cry; 2012-09-27 at 07:10 PM.
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  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: Corpses-Я-Us: Or, Buying Dead Bodies For Fun And Profit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    Or simply make the stone into a statue and then Stone to Flesh, no need for PaO.
    Sometimes, bypassing an obscure Craft check is easier. Also, again, Fabricate. Because there is no DC set for crafting a corpse, no Craft check is necessary. I'm merely positing PaO for those unruly GMs who arbitrarily decide that you can't.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Underlord View Post
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    Default Re: Corpses-Я-Us: Or, Buying Dead Bodies For Fun And Profit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    Not to mention terribly confusing for your enemies.
    I am willing to bet this is why Pathfinder changed it so a statue becomes a compressed meat product instead.
    Why does this remind me of certain roguelikes...
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  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Default Re: Corpses-Я-Us: Or, Buying Dead Bodies For Fun And Profit

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    Sometimes, bypassing an obscure Craft check is easier. Also, again, Fabricate. Because there is no DC set for crafting a corpse, no Craft check is necessary. I'm merely positing PaO for those unruly GMs who arbitrarily decide that you can't.
    There's no craft DC for a corpse, because, typically, "crafting" a corpse only involves making an animate creature inanimate.

    This looks suspiciously like a case of "I can do it because the rules don't say I can't."

    Many a DM will likely say fabricate can't craft a corpse because a corpse isn't a crafted object. It's raw material. At least I would certainly rule it that way.

    I'd happily allow you to fabricate a roast or three out of an animal corpse, though.
    Last edited by Kelb_Panthera; 2012-09-28 at 01:26 AM.
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    Kelb, recently it looks like you're the Avatar of Reason in these forums, man.
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  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: Corpses-Я-Us: Or, Buying Dead Bodies For Fun And Profit

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    ... actually, are there any other schools of magic that use corpses? One would think 'scientific purposes for corpses' in dnd is just another way of saying 'IMMA NECROMANCER!!!!!1111one11!!oneoneone"
    Transmutation, Abjuration and Conjuration can make use of corpses. More realistically however, a person could use said corpses for non-magical scientific purposes, in the same manner that scientists, academics, and doctors can, and have, made use of corpses for thousands of years. It would, for instance, be invaluable for instruction regarding the Heal skill, or the higher ranks of the Knowledge skills (with regards to identifying the strengths, weaknesses, and anatomies of both humanoids and monsters alike). So assuming you don't live in a highly superstitious village that is likely to burn you at the stake for knowing how to heal someone with medicine, "scientific purposes" might well be a reasonable, if somewhat looked down upon, justification. If won't stop the authorities from questioning you if they are specifically looking out for a necromancer, but it can deflect suspicion, especially if your "research" has aided the community in some manner. Besides, it would be highly thematically appropriate for any discerning necromancer to have many ranks in the Heal skill, as well as the various knowledge skills that have creature identification/anatomy as part of their purview.
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    Default Re: Corpses-Я-Us: Or, Buying Dead Bodies For Fun And Profit

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    Sometimes, bypassing an obscure Craft check is easier. Also, again, Fabricate. Because there is no DC set for crafting a corpse, no Craft check is necessary. I'm merely positing PaO for those unruly GMs who arbitrarily decide that you can't.
    And those same arbitrary DM may rule that PaO doesn't work either.
    Going from finicky skill ruling to finicky spell ruling don't sound like no improvement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurus View Post
    Why does this remind me of certain roguelikes...
    Given that many rogue-likes are heavily based on D&D, this is hardly surprising.
    Last edited by Ravens_cry; 2012-09-28 at 02:42 AM.
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  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: Corpses-Я-Us: Or, Buying Dead Bodies For Fun And Profit

    1. Buy 1 lb of raw animal meat.
    2. Use spells Repair ... Damage on it.
    3. Voila, now you have a whole corpse!

  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Default Re: Corpses-Я-Us: Or, Buying Dead Bodies For Fun And Profit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    And those same arbitrary DM may rule that PaO doesn't work either.
    Going from finicky skill ruling to finicky spell ruling don't sound like no improvement.
    The spell description spells out that yes, I can. If the GM doesn't tell me ahead of time "I am changing PaO to prevent what I consider to be a rules exploit" and just dumps this on me after going through the effort to get this on a Dread Necro, I'd probably be tempted to rebut with "Well, your game, your decision. However, I think I'll go find a game where we are actually playing by the rules. Have fun."
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    Default Re: Corpses-Я-Us: Or, Buying Dead Bodies For Fun And Profit

    Quote Originally Posted by ShurikVch View Post
    1. Buy 1 lb of raw animal meat.
    2. Use spells Repair ... Damage on it.
    3. Voila, now you have a whole corpse!
    ...If that works I could rip off a piece of a wagon and be able to dupe wagons.
    Last edited by Coidzor; 2012-09-28 at 09:12 AM.
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    Default Re: Corpses-Я-Us: Or, Buying Dead Bodies For Fun And Profit

    Ya you'd need some kind of regenerate ability too and that spell only works on creatures. Ressurection could work, but that's a bit expensive. Might be worth it for dragonscale full plate => colossal great wyrm dragon. The hard part is killing it before you raise it.
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    Default Re: Corpses-Я-Us: Or, Buying Dead Bodies For Fun And Profit

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    The spell description spells out that yes, I can. If the GM doesn't tell me ahead of time "I am changing PaO to prevent what I consider to be a rules exploit" and just dumps this on me after going through the effort to get this on a Dread Necro, I'd probably be tempted to rebut with "Well, your game, your decision. However, I think I'll go find a game where we are actually playing by the rules. Have fun."
    Depends. Unless a DM decides meat is not just meat. Like I said, the spell is finicky and very dependent on DM adjudication. Storming off because the DM isn't following the rules is hard to justify when the game is so lax on what those rules are.
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    Default Re: Corpses-Я-Us: Or, Buying Dead Bodies For Fun And Profit

    There's a way to do it without casting Fabritcate. Take the Wild Cohort feat and be 16th level or be friends with a 13th level Druid. At that level Druids can choose an Elephant as their animal companion. According to the rules the druid performs a 24 hour ceremony and then receives her animal companion of choice; have her choose elephant.

    It arrives and you kill it. No gold expended.

    Course there's various fluff disconnects there such as why a druid is willingly sacrificing an elephant to be raised as undead but according to the rules it'll work.
    "We have sent many to Hell, to smooth our way," said I, "and we are standing yet and holding blades. What more?"- Roger Zelazny, This Immortal
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    Default Re: Corpses-Я-Us: Or, Buying Dead Bodies For Fun And Profit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    Yeah, but that's an 8th level spell. At the levels that becomes available, that goes from 'exploit' to merely 'quite clever'.
    Also, some DM might rule (another thing about PaO, it's a very DM sensitive spell) that the intellect is of the creature when it was alive.
    Having a way to do it puts an upper limit on the price. If PAO works (and it should) then I can hire a caster for a level 8 spell for 1200 GP, expensive, but no corpse can reasonably cost much more than that since you can hire someone to custom make it for that.

    So my 20HD undead animated in a permanent desecrate (lets me do 20 HD at once and gives it an extra 40 HP on top of that) at level 5 is doable within the level 5 character's budget.

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    Default Re: Corpses-Я-Us: Or, Buying Dead Bodies For Fun And Profit

    If 8th lvl spells are accepted, Clone can give infinite bodies by 1k gp per corpse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    ...If that works I could rip off a piece of a wagon and be able to dupe wagons.
    Spells are more expensive then wagons.
    Last edited by ShurikVch; 2012-09-29 at 01:51 PM.

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