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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Oh, yeah. Geotia goes back to the use of solomonic seals and basic medieval demonology. And Kabbalah being the foundation for a lot of things... Yeah.

    I am surprised you didn't know this stuff existed? Although goetia is damned hard to find anything on. Classic demonology is like, it's like there's a worldwide institution that finds the very concept of such things immoral enough to remove from circulation.
    "Patience has its limits. Take it too far, and it's cowardice."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    You know, I googled that, and found this book. Qabalah, Qliphoth and Goetic Magic.

    Far as I can tell it has nothing to do with the mage setting whatsoever, it's just a real thing somebody wrote.

    Possible candidate for "No way that's Covert!"
    Well, the term means something along the lines of "husk" or "shell" and does come from Kabbalah. In the game, they're described as being something akin to Abyssal vacuums that auto-soul dominate any mages that cause a paradox around them or sleepers that invoke disbelief. Under mage sight they look a lot like, well, husks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkDM
    That game does seem to have an unusual number of Bronies per square meter.
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  3. - Top - End - #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    I am surprised you didn't know this stuff existed? Although goetia is damned hard to find anything on. Classic demonology is like, it's like there's a worldwide institution that finds the very concept of such things immoral enough to remove from circulation.
    I know some Kabbalah, but was surprised to find a book putting that many of the terms together that was totally unassociated with Mage. I had thought the Mage writers had more originality in putting their setting together even though I knew they had drawn on several kabbalistic elements.

    Quote Originally Posted by the_druid_droid View Post
    Well, the term means something along the lines of "husk" or "shell" and does come from Kabbalah. In the game, they're described as being something akin to Abyssal vacuums that auto-soul dominate any mages that cause a paradox around them or sleepers that invoke disbelief. Under mage sight they look a lot like, well, husks.
    Neat. I haven't read Imperial Mysteries yet. It will go on my list after The Book of Shadow (in progress) and Astral Realms.
    Last edited by Anarion; 2012-10-20 at 01:09 PM.
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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by the_druid_droid View Post
    Well, the term means something along the lines of "husk" or "shell" and does come from Kabbalah. In the game, they're described as being something akin to Abyssal vacuums that auto-soul dominate any mages that cause a paradox around them or sleepers that invoke disbelief. Under mage sight they look a lot like, well, husks.


    ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    I know some Kabbalah, but was surprised to find a book putting that many of the terms together that was totally unassociated with Mage. I had thought the Mage writers had more originality in putting their setting together even though I knew they had drawn on several kabbalistic elements.
    Oh, no.
    New age stuff has been all about combining everything and pretending it works and seeing connections, since my mother was old enough to know what new age stuff was. There's a saying, "new age and sewage look the same because they're both just watered down, intermingled ****." There's nothing new under the sun, and most pagans an mystics are optimizers - if combining the paths between the sephira with elemental connotations to sympathize with can optic jar stand-ins to resonate with Odin as he hung from the tree of life which the serpent tempted Eve to eat from gives them an edge, they'll make it happen.

    No matter how much each individual tradition expounds agains it. General rule of Sleeper occultism, you don't mix your medicines.

    Neat. I haven't read Imperial Mysteries yet. It will go on my list after The Book of Shadow (in progress) and Astral Realms.
    Book of shadow?
    "Patience has its limits. Take it too far, and it's cowardice."

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    Book of shadow?
    Sorry, book of spirits. It just uses the term "shadow" way more often than the term "spirit."
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    Dulce Et Decorum Est Pro Anarion Mori?
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    You just highlandered an entire city block into a glass-filled storm by road-runnering down it in your underwear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    Sorry, book of spirits. It just uses the term "shadow" way more often than the term "spirit."
    Dang, I was hoping for an obscure Mage book XD

    Book Of shadow is fun. It's like a compendium of all the stuff I've athletes on my own, in one place. Collated, detailed and errata'd.



    Oh, and if I get to play a game of Mage anytime soon, I'm going to play my wizard. :D
    "Patience has its limits. Take it too far, and it's cowardice."

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    If there isn't a Book of Shadow in universe I will be surprised.

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    I know some Kabbalah, but was surprised to find a book putting that many of the terms together that was totally unassociated with Mage. I had thought the Mage writers had more originality in putting their setting together even though I knew they had drawn on several kabbalistic elements.
    From what I can tell, Mage was pretty heavily influenced by Hermetic magic, but then again the whole Western lay-conception of what magic is was influenced quite a bit by the 19th century movements in that direction generally.

    Neat. I haven't read Imperial Mysteries yet. It will go on my list after The Book of Shadow (in progress) and Astral Realms.
    Warning: it will probably make you want to play an Archmaster game.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post


    ?
    Something like that, but with more Paradox hemorrhaging.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkDM
    That game does seem to have an unusual number of Bronies per square meter.
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    Awesome paradoxical avatar by Aruius! When the robot uprising is complete, he alone shall be spared.

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by the_druid_droid View Post
    From what I can tell, Mage was pretty heavily influenced by Hermetic magic, but then again the whole Western lay-conception of what magic is was influenced quite a bit by the 19th century movements in that direction generally.
    Hermetic, is that the thing? I think so. It's hard to look stuff up again without proper names.

    Something like that, but with more Paradox hemorrhaging.


    (these slap you, hump your torso and then explode. Like nukes.)
    "Patience has its limits. Take it too far, and it's cowardice."

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Oh man, this is possibly the most themeatically complex picture of a Pony I've ever created.

    Firebird is best car pony.
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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    Hermetic, is that the thing? I think so. It's hard to look stuff up again without proper names.
    Try looking for the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn.



    (these slap you, hump your torso and then explode. Like nukes.)
    Getting closer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    Oh man, this is possibly the most themeatically complex picture of a Pony I've ever created.

    Firebird is best car pony.
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    All of my approve.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkDM
    That game does seem to have an unusual number of Bronies per square meter.
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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by the_druid_droid View Post
    Warning: it will probably make you want to play an Archmaster game.
    I can't overstate how much of an achievement this is. White Wolf made a book about overpowered, Gnosis 6+ *******s who can do literally anything and made it not only fit with the setting but also eminently playable. The way they united low and high power, provided meaningful challenges and enemies at that kind of power scale, and filled the universe with things to do was a master stroke and they get mad props from me for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    Oh man, this is possibly the most themeatically complex picture of a Pony I've ever created.

    Firebird is best car pony.
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    Ha ha! Awesome.
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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Order o the golden dawn and ordo oriental draconis are all high ceremonial circle magic though. They have their roots in Hellenic mysteries which I will admit I am poorly verse in but were reminscent of mystery plays conducted under the grecoroman pantheon's eyes. Am I incorrect?


    What I am thinking of is the ottoman-ish, the culture I have no name for but taste in a thousand thousand tales of desert nights and horsemen and wonder. The progenitors of the djin, for whom angels and devils we're aligned spiritual forces, disembodied, and demons were chaotic entropic beings of a different scale altogether. It predates the big monotheistic paradigm, and survived alongside it as a syncretic belief.

    Unfortunately, all I know for sure about Arabian, ottoman, Turkish and Persian stuf is that everyone I talk to about it knows the differences enough to be upset at my not knowing the differences.
    "Patience has its limits. Take it too far, and it's cowardice."

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Firebird roams the small towns and tough neighborhoods of Equestria, righting wrongs and helping the ponyfolk. Cheifly by jumping over things and making woosh-woosh noises.

    Uh, which is to say this Archmaster book sounds cool. I'm not sure it wouldn't be a little much like hard work though for any extended period. At least for my own tastes, but you never know and it's not like I've read the book.

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    Uh, which is to say this Archmaster book sounds cool. I'm not sure it wouldn't be a little much like hard work though for any extended period. At least for my own tastes, but you never know and it's not like I've read the book.
    I don't know what you mean by hard work and I can't argue a negative, but Archmastery is perfectly given over to long term play in my opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    Firebird roams the small towns and tough neighborhoods of Equestria, righting wrongs and helping the ponyfolk. Cheifly by jumping over things and making woosh-woosh noises.

    Uh, which is to say this Archmaster book sounds cool. I'm not sure it wouldn't be a little much like hard work though for any extended period. At least for my own tastes, but you never know and it's not like I've read the book.
    Geez, Tiki. This post made me realize that my average days are basically 6-8 hours of sleep, 3-4 hours of meals and exercise and talking to people, and 12-15 hours of reading something (law, games, news etc.).
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    Dulce Et Decorum Est Pro Anarion Mori?
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    You just highlandered an entire city block into a glass-filled storm by road-runnering down it in your underwear.

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Well, I feel I have enough to keep track of with a handful of dots in a couple of Arcana and a small list of things I can do.

    I can only assume Archmastery not only ups the number of things you can do and must keep track of, but also likely ups the stakes to match. I'd enjoy spectating such a game certainly, but playing in one just sounds a little exhausting, at least for myself and not having read anything about the book in question.

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    I don't know what you mean by hard work and I can't argue a negative, but Archmastery is perfectly given over to long term play in my opinion.
    FYI - I would totally make an Equestria-themed Chantry.

    And pray it never got Abyssal'd...

    EDIT @ Tiki: Well, Archmastery doesn't change the number of Arcana or anything, although you do end up having more dots. And most of the realms Archmages can explore are also accessible to lesser mages, it's really more that the nature of your tasks and challenges starts to shift.
    Last edited by the_druid_droid; 2012-10-20 at 09:18 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkDM
    That game does seem to have an unusual number of Bronies per square meter.
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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    Well, I feel I have enough to keep track of with a handful of dots in a couple of Arcana and a small list of things I can do.

    I can only assume Archmastery not only ups the number of things you can do and must keep track of, but also likely ups the stakes to match. I'd enjoy spectating such a game certainly, but playing in one just sounds a little exhausting, at least for myself and not having read anything about the book in question.
    I actually think Mage has a different challenge: The more powerful you get the less creative you have to be!

    If you've got Forces 5 then you don't have to devise any Cunning Plans to manoeuvre your target under the power lines or wait for him to get in a car or for there to be a cloudy sky before you hit him with lightning. You just throw a lightning bolt like you prepped it in a third level spell slot. I actually think that some Masters get dumber as Mages because they stop having to come up with creative and unique solutions and can just make things happen.

    As far as things you have to keep track of, well, no actually. There's only about fifty Archmasters in the world, tops, and you will probably know them all by name.

    Finally, in terms of mechanics - yes, White Wolf has a history of having their games break at higher levels (See: Exalted) which is why Imperial Mysteries is so impressive in keeping everything streamlined. An Archmaster sheet isn't enormously different from a regular Mage's sheet - more dots, bigger dice pools, sure, but it doesn't have any weird exception clauses or arcane new tracking devices. You'll still roll Gnosis+Arcana for an improvised spell like everyone else.
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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    That does sound like quite the achievement.

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Part of it is just bigger dice pools. Mage already reflects power with use of the spell factors. If you have gnosis 6 and arcana 5+ you've got at least 11 dice in your pool. That means if you're not under stress, you already have the basic rules in place to take a regular spell and make it affect an entire city block and last for weeks if you want.
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    You just highlandered an entire city block into a glass-filled storm by road-runnering down it in your underwear.

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    I actually think Mage has a different challenge: The more powerful you get the less creative you have to be!

    If you've got Forces 5 then you don't have to devise any Cunning Plans to manoeuvre your target under the power lines or wait for him to get in a car or for there to be a cloudy sky before you hit him with lightning. You just throw a lightning bolt like you prepped it in a third level spell slot. I actually think that some Masters get dumber as Mages because they stop having to come up with creative and unique solutions and can just make things happen.

    As far as things you have to keep track of, well, no actually. There's only about fifty Archmasters in the world, tops, and you will probably know them all by name.

    Finally, in terms of mechanics - yes, White Wolf has a history of having their games break at higher levels (See: Exalted) which is why Imperial Mysteries is so impressive in keeping everything streamlined. An Archmaster sheet isn't enormously different from a regular Mage's sheet - more dots, bigger dice pools, sure, but it doesn't have any weird exception clauses or arcane new tracking devices. You'll still roll Gnosis+Arcana for an improvised spell like everyone else.
    You left out quintessence, which I hear I like mana for archangel's but as hard to acquire as a guarde soul stone.

    -

    I give; Anarion, how goes your planning?
    "Patience has its limits. Take it too far, and it's cowardice."

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    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    You left out quintessence, which I hear I like mana for archangel's but as hard to acquire as a guarde soul stone.

    -

    I give; Anarion, how goes your planning?
    For my Mage game? I want to finish Book of Spirits before I get it started because I think the resonance of the city is going to be important and I don't really understand that stuff well enough yet. I ran some stuff by Thanqol though, so it's going. I might get an OOC thread up soon, still haven't gotten a commitment from a third player.

    Or were you talking about some other plan?
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    You just highlandered an entire city block into a glass-filled storm by road-runnering down it in your underwear.

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    That was what I meant, yes. I just get antsy about mentioning what seems to be privileged information in public.

    I know I already towed this line, but look into werewolf. It's easier to grasp shadows and spirits and resonance when the setting involve deals with them almost exclusively. To a werewolf, it's reality, to a Mage it's a pithy tenth of their resources. Like studying chemistry instead of just physics to get a grasp on how thins interact.
    "Patience has its limits. Take it too far, and it's cowardice."

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    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    Like studying chemistry instead of just physics to get a grasp on how thins interact.
    Ironically, I kind of explicitly chose not to do this during my education. I took several years of physics into the middle of the physics for majors college curriculum and never once took a chemistry course past basic high school chem.
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    You just highlandered an entire city block into a glass-filled storm by road-runnering down it in your underwear.

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    That is ironic. I am going to fall back on the knowledge that there being some reason for chemistry to be as or more relevant than just physics was an implicit part o that which I gave up on for not being able to articulate it effectively. But mostly I'm going to enjoy the whimsy of walking into that.


    I'm looking at an acanthus, you see. I don't quite get how time sight works, an I'm trying to come up with a good reason not to start at Prime 3. So I suppose it's slow going XD
    "Patience has its limits. Take it too far, and it's cowardice."

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    Ironically, I kind of explicitly chose not to do this during my education. I took several years of physics into the middle of the physics for majors college curriculum and never once took a chemistry course past basic high school chem.
    I sort of did the opposite. I was a chem major and began taking physics courses once I realized how much I liked p. chem.

    I will say that I think the biggest difference between physical chemists and physicists is probably that the first group has more of a molecular focus.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkDM
    That game does seem to have an unusual number of Bronies per square meter.
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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    EDIT: on Bjork and Skunk Anansi: why aid Charlotte singing she has no dots in expression

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    Would that be three days in the new calendar or the old one?
    I am interested in whether a day is still 24 hours long (23.75 by the stars) or if each day is a half hour longer.

    Oh, I saw that movie on the last plane flight I took. It was totally hilarious and they did some awesome time magic.
    To Netflix!

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadly View Post
    Surely you mean tau

    But yes, Amun approves of this
    Oh wow. I lost a page in there somewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    I'd be pretty disappoint if I had an avvie that wasn't...
    Me too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    Because I like a forced progression towards enlightenment, even if it's not in the Mage's best interests. Sooner or later you naturally outgrow certain parts of the world and can't stop it.
    *nod*

    I've actually got a backup character designed and in place for the game you one day run.
    Only somewhat terrifying!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    So, if I timed it right I could theoretically hit rank 5 in all three at the same time by seeing the entire New-World-Order of the Seers fall apart (due to my own machinations and lots of running down corridors) and then leaving the planet to explore all of time and space in my magical blue box?

    I wonder how much Matter Magic I'd need to build my own Tardis. I've got the bigger-on-the-inside sorted already, the time travel and the mysteriously ending up where it's most needed...
    You'd have to find a suitable spirit to bind into it, but given TV culture you could probably bind the Doctor's Wife herself. Sounds like an eight dot artifact.

    So you get to Time 6, go back, seed it's creation amongst the ancients, and help put clues and signs throughout history so your present self can be inspired to keep the loop alive.

    -

    Searched everything but pages 1-4. Thanqol, you linked a RPg.net article on what each path/arcana can do. Can you find that again please? Search fails me.
    Last edited by SiuiS; 2012-10-20 at 11:44 PM.
    "Patience has its limits. Take it too far, and it's cowardice."

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    So you get to Time 6, go back, seed it's creation amongst the ancients, and help put clues and signs throughout history so your present self can be inspired to keep the loop alive.
    It's Time 8 and an Imperial working to create a stable time portal you can freely step through (Practise of Entities). Lesser Time stuff lets you do stuff to influence the past indirectly but that's what you need to actually go back and kill Caesar with your own hands.

    Imperial Mysteries helpfully also informs us that cause and effect is a hilarious lie and it's fully possible to kill your own grandfather and stay alive. On the downside, your mortal identity ceases to exist - as far as the world is concerned 'you' were never born.

    Searched everything but pages 1-4. Thanqol, you linked a RPg.net article on what each path/arcana can do. Can you find that again please? Search fails me.
    http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?...the-Five-Paths

    EDIT: Note the length of the 3-dot Time spell list to the 3-dot Mind spell list.

    This is a sign of Mage authors being lazy.
    Last edited by Thanqol; 2012-10-21 at 12:42 AM.
    To improve is to change
    To be perfect is to change often

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by StephenLS
    "With risk, many Moros can kill themselves (Hollow Victory; Ban p. 54)"
    With risk.
    To improve is to change
    To be perfect is to change often

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