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  1. - Top - End - #901
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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    I point out that the profane urim, specifically, is one of the artifacts that is absolutely central to the functioning and organization of the Throne. I'm almost certain that the rampant sleeper possession that's been discussed is due to the profane urim, although I am less certain that the mind effects are due to a legacy.

    Additionally, the book does answer the question about legacies. Page 345 of core, bottom left under advantages.
    "In fact, attainments do not read as magical under the gaze of Mage Sight. They appear to be mundane abilities. A Subtle One who uses his False Pretenses attainment (p. 354) in the absence of any spells displays no magical signature whatsoever.
    And lower down
    Attainments cannot be dispelled or countered, although the Prime 2 "Magic Shield" spell (p. 222) is still effective against them, as it is against any supernatural power.
    Last edited by Anarion; 2012-11-10 at 10:09 PM.
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    Anarion's right on the money here.
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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    On the other hand, YOU ARE SCULPTING YOUR SOUL. If this is "just" a legacy, it is giving the proper amount of deference to something that's easy to grasp when you read a game book about it instead of having to learn from an eccentric demigod with an agenda. The fact that if a Mage looks at something he will see it, guaranteed, and yet a Mage did look and did not see is terrifying, horrifying beyond belief. Attainments aren't just your epic spells, your higher slots. They are a magnitude of improvement in utility and potency.
    Bearers of the Eternal Voice scare the living excrement out of me, and I'm a Guardian.
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    DD, your unicorn is stronger, prettier, and higher-ranking than mine, and her secret lab has a better name than mine. THERE SHALL BE NO QUARTER.
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  3. - Top - End - #903
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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by the_druid_droid View Post
    Bearers of the Eternal Voice scare the living excrement out of me, and I'm a Guardian.
    A quote from DaveB on the new Left Handed Legacy sourcebook (it's in the mail!):

    > I didn't know it was possible to be tricked into learning a Legacy. Doesn't it require clear intent and consent to change your soul like that?

    Joining a Legacy the normal way requires a tutor to teach you the oblations and, through some kind of ceremony that isn't particularly well defined in the line, create an arcane link between your soul and theirs identifying themselves as your mentor.

    Thing is, though, that lots of Left-Handed Legacies have gotten *really really good* at hiding the questionable parts of their beliefs and practices until students are in too deep to back out. The Mystery Cult works against the newbie here - he believes what his mentor tells him, and only once hes got the first attainment does he find out that the second involves eating babies. Sucks to be him.

    You can also learn a Legacy by paying a flat 10xp to copy the attainments from a Daimonomicon or Soul Stone into your own soul. You only have the word of what's written in the Daimonomicon or any associated records with teh Stone as to what your new Attainments will actually do - which is why the Pentacle really discourage young mages from doing it. Several Daimonomica are even enchanted to make victims think it's a really good idea to use them. And once you're in, you're in. No changing your Legacy without archmagic.

    Neither of those force the newbie to actually fal lin line and follow his new Legacy's beliefs, of course, but if the Pentacle will kill you if they find out anyway, you're sliding toward apostasy at a best result.

    Or, if you're a Guardian, the Interfector's Mask beckons.
    "Any person, aggressive clowns or hunters of clowns, discovered in possession of a weapon on the highway will be arrested."

  4. - Top - End - #904
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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Interesting.

    Thanqol, could you link me to the artist you use for this game one more time? I've decided that it's worth my money to hire him for some Heart of the Dragon characters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Anarion's right on the money here.
    Quotes

    "Fred's a talking horse, he can do whatever he wants."

    Fred: "I want to steal"

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    Interesting.

    Thanqol, could you link me to the artist you use for this game one more time? I've decided that it's worth my money to hire him for some Heart of the Dragon characters.
    RobD. 10 characters for $125 is a steal.
    "Any person, aggressive clowns or hunters of clowns, discovered in possession of a weapon on the highway will be arrested."

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Moving the spell discussion to OOC. I'm a little confused at the moment.

    The spell I'm planning to cast is essentially an improvised version of the burst of speed rote listed on pg 171. That spell lasts an entire scene, but also only activates when I want. The way you're phrasing it seems to imply either
    1) in addition to disbelief, if the spell is ever used to move quickly in front of sleepers you have to roll retroactive paradox dice, even if you cast the spell and sit on it for 20 minutes before activation
    OR
    2) Having the spell active at all and walking within line of sight of a sleeper forces a paradox roll, even if you never actually move quickly

    I understand that the phrasing for the +2 dice is "One or more sleepers witnesses the magic" but in this case the casting itself would be hidden and I'm uncertain whether this means that you not only get disbelief on the existing spell, but also retroactive paradox whenever a vulgar spell, no matter when cast, comes within line of sight of a sleeper.
    Lawyer Pony by DirtyTabs

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Anarion's right on the money here.
    Quotes

    "Fred's a talking horse, he can do whatever he wants."

    Fred: "I want to steal"

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    Moving the spell discussion to OOC. I'm a little confused at the moment.

    The spell I'm planning to cast is essentially an improvised version of the burst of speed rote listed on pg 171. That spell lasts an entire scene, but also only activates when I want. The way you're phrasing it seems to imply either
    1) in addition to disbelief, if the spell is ever used to move quickly in front of sleepers you have to roll retroactive paradox dice, even if you cast the spell and sit on it for 20 minutes before activation
    OR
    2) Having the spell active at all and walking within line of sight of a sleeper forces a paradox roll, even if you never actually move quickly


    I understand that the phrasing for the +2 dice is "One or more sleepers witnesses the magic" but in this case the casting itself would be hidden and I'm uncertain whether this means that you not only get disbelief on the existing spell, but also retroactive paradox whenever a vulgar spell, no matter when cast, comes within line of sight of a sleeper.
    This is what made me say that a magical gorilla created in secret an left in a zoo would be subject to paradox and disbelief for being a gorilla. It's kind of poorly laid out.
    Make strange what is comfortable.

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    Moving the spell discussion to OOC. I'm a little confused at the moment.

    The spell I'm planning to cast is essentially an improvised version of the burst of speed rote listed on pg 171. That spell lasts an entire scene, but also only activates when I want. The way you're phrasing it seems to imply either
    1) in addition to disbelief, if the spell is ever used to move quickly in front of sleepers you have to roll retroactive paradox dice, even if you cast the spell and sit on it for 20 minutes before activation
    OR
    2) Having the spell active at all and walking within line of sight of a sleeper forces a paradox roll, even if you never actually move quickly

    I understand that the phrasing for the +2 dice is "One or more sleepers witnesses the magic" but in this case the casting itself would be hidden and I'm uncertain whether this means that you not only get disbelief on the existing spell, but also retroactive paradox whenever a vulgar spell, no matter when cast, comes within line of sight of a sleeper.
    No, the paradox roll is a product of Sleeper perception. If you cast a Vulgar spell and no Sleeper thinks it's a Vulgar Spell then you don't get the +2 paradox. Incidentally, this means if you do something Vulgar like summoning a ghost in front of a Sleeper who believes in ghosts then that Sleeper doesn't count towards that paradox.

    This rule was borrowed from my ST as a sort of safeguard against people putting up their Cultural Lead Shields whenever they wanted to cast a Vulgar spell. So that is, if you duck behind a door, cast a scene-length Burst of Speed spell, step out the next round and start running at 120mph then that triggers the stronger Paradox.

    Now that I think about it, though, I don't actually see a reason why that shouldn't be a valid trick considering the metaphysics of the situation. The act of casting the spell is opening a corridor to the Supernal, through which the magic flows. Once the casting is done, and while the Duration is going, then there's no further connection to the Supernal; the spell is already fully present in the Fallen, giving no further opportunity for the Abyss to come through. In that case, Disbelief is all you have to worry about.

    So yeah, I take that earlier ruling back. You can indeed throw a smoke bomb on the ground and start casting Vulgar magic. There's plenty of other stuff that'll balance that out.
    "Any person, aggressive clowns or hunters of clowns, discovered in possession of a weapon on the highway will be arrested."

  9. - Top - End - #909
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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Ah. Disbelief, improbability and vulgarity. I think the implied but nonexistent equity of the three is where I've been getting Snagged.
    Make strange what is comfortable.

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    Ah. Disbelief, improbability and vulgarity. I think the implied but nonexistent equity of the three is where I've been getting Snagged.
    There are going to be a bunch of grey areas where I may have to apply my discretion; such as, what happens if you cast a Vulgar Fate spell with no immediate impact - does it trigger the Sleeper +2 dice now, or does it trigger it when the guy gets run over by a Mardi Gras float? I dunno, gonna employ my discretion on a case by case.
    "Any person, aggressive clowns or hunters of clowns, discovered in possession of a weapon on the highway will be arrested."

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    There are going to be a bunch of grey areas where I may have to apply my discretion; such as, what happens if you cast a Vulgar Fate spell with no immediate impact - does it trigger the Sleeper +2 dice now, or does it trigger it when the guy gets run over by a Mardi Gras float? I dunno, gonna employ my discretion on a case by case.
    I understand. This falls under each instance needing to be judged on its own merits. Our issue was that the system seemingly self-contradicted, which is another matter entirely. It's a symptom of poorly define keywords I believe. Sleeper witnesses trigger disbelief and incredulity. Incredulity can trigger vulgarity, but only in covert spells, while vulgar cannot be made covert. A covertly cast spell is not subject to +2 vulgarity but is subject to disbelief, where dispelling could trigger vulgarity because the gorilla becoming a mouse would retroactively convince them it was vulgar.

    And from a rules perspective, that needs a lot of cleaning up language wise. I personally implicitly trust you and Anarion farther than the books. I merely compare your judgement to the book to learn why you made such and such change.
    Make strange what is comfortable.

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Drew an Errantpony.

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    "Any person, aggressive clowns or hunters of clowns, discovered in possession of a weapon on the highway will be arrested."

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Damn, I just thought of a great Mastigos character, and now I really, really want a chance to play him. Anyone planning a game? Anyone?

    Quick summary, haven't worked out much in the way of a background or anything:

    Shadow Name: Core Fandango (I absolutely love this name)
    Mastigos, Guardians of the Veil
    Mind, Space, Forces (that order or priority)
    Hacker, gun enthusiast, and devilishly handsome nice guy

    He was supposed to have a familiar (a really, really scruffy dog to contrast his own impeccable looks), but these things are so damn expensive, so maybe just an ordinary dog. Or whatever works, once I work out his actual background.

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    Deadly, a delightfully daring drawer and drafter of dissertations. Defying the dictations of our disparate denizens, Deadly decides his direction with a dirth of dependence on the decisions of despotic desperados. Deadly detests dismissive derision, and will debate any dude or dame that dares to detest discussion.

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    I am not planning a game, I'm afraid.
    By the looks of things, anyone who is will have no trouble finding players.

    So, it's my understanding that essentially, if it can be phrased as "What are the chances of...happening?" It's possibly a valid use of fate, right?

    So, What are the chances that all hostile actions happening up the street there fail? (Ie, what level of Fate would I need, and if I have it, what is my dice pool likely to be?)

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    I am not planning a game, I'm afraid.
    By the looks of things, anyone who is will have no trouble finding players.

    So, it's my understanding that essentially, if it can be phrased as "What are the chances of...happening?" It's possibly a valid use of fate, right?

    So, What are the chances that all hostile actions happening up the street there fail? (Ie, what level of Fate would I need, and if I have it, what is my dice pool likely to be?)
    I don't think you can just make them fail. The fate 2 spell shifting the odds allows turning a fatal sniper's bullet into a serious wound as one of its examples, and at fate 3 you can grant fate armor to a group or make an object unlucky and have an equipment penalty that could severely impact the roll.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Anarion's right on the money here.
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    Fred: "I want to steal"

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    I've no real idea if the distinction is meaningful, but I was more aiming to hinder and/or prevent fighty mcmurder actions in that general area regardless of whose doing them.

    Either by simply directly applying penalty dice to the shot, as Fate Armour and so on might be said to model, or by simply hoping that luck intercedes and something literally just gets in the way to make shooting, stabbing, cursing etc each other more difficult. Say, a Lorry containing a couple of hundred inflated beech balls spills it's cargo right there on the sidewalk in a vast cascade of bouncy colourful not-death or a lorry load of cardboard boxes full of those poylstyrene packing chips explodes in Tessen's blastwave, causing a sudden, artificial snowstorm, or something.

    Edit: Luck is clearly not against us just yet. With both Tessen and Jack not actually being dressed yet, neither of us would have had any electronics on us to be fried.
    Last edited by Tiki Snakes; 2012-11-11 at 01:36 PM.

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    So I'm thinking Amun probably can't do a whole lot right now except move closer. Anyone got any other ideas?

    Edit: Oh yeah, Amun probably didn't have any important electronics on him either, except maybe his new cheap cellphone possibly. Being a hobo does have some advantages
    Last edited by Deadly; 2012-11-11 at 01:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Fedora View Post
    Deadly, a delightfully daring drawer and drafter of dissertations. Defying the dictations of our disparate denizens, Deadly decides his direction with a dirth of dependence on the decisions of despotic desperados. Deadly detests dismissive derision, and will debate any dude or dame that dares to detest discussion.

  18. - Top - End - #918
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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadly View Post
    So I'm thinking Amun probably can't do a whole lot right now except move closer. Anyone got any other ideas?
    Well, Amun DOES have Shifting the Odds and a pretty good dice pool, but it also costs mana. So, you could use it to try and stop someone/some people getting shot, but it'd probably only do anything this round and you don't have many to spare. There's also the thing where it's Jack's goal here and now to stop everyone shooting everyone else, Amun's own goals and reading of the situation may significantly differ and neither Jack nor Amun are close enough to really know what's going on (other than it's all gotten very paradoxical and dramatic and Tessen is shouting all bodyguard style.

    I guess the question should be, from what he knows, what does Amun want to accomplish?

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Yeah, my impression is that Amun has no idea yet that anyone is actually about to be shot, so he has little reason to try to stop a shot he doesn't know about. Which means his immediate goal is to find out what's going on Edit: and by then it'll be too late to stop it
    Last edited by Deadly; 2012-11-11 at 02:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Fedora View Post
    Deadly, a delightfully daring drawer and drafter of dissertations. Defying the dictations of our disparate denizens, Deadly decides his direction with a dirth of dependence on the decisions of despotic desperados. Deadly detests dismissive derision, and will debate any dude or dame that dares to detest discussion.

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    I've no real idea if the distinction is meaningful, but I was more aiming to hinder and/or prevent fighty mcmurder actions in that general area regardless of whose doing them.

    Either by simply directly applying penalty dice to the shot, as Fate Armour and so on might be said to model, or by simply hoping that luck intercedes and something literally just gets in the way to make shooting, stabbing, cursing etc each other more difficult. Say, a Lorry containing a couple of hundred inflated beech balls spills it's cargo right there on the sidewalk in a vast cascade of bouncy colourful not-death or a lorry load of cardboard boxes full of those poylstyrene packing chips explodes in Tessen's blastwave, causing a sudden, artificial snowstorm, or something.

    Edit: Luck is clearly not against us just yet. With both Tessen and Jack not actually being dressed yet, neither of us would have had any electronics on us to be fried.
    Hm, well, affecting a whole area might require advanced target factors, so you'd need fate 3+ for that imo. It also would probably give a several die penalty since this is apparently the end of a city block, which probably has a radius of several yards. Personally, I'd try to affect the guns themselves, make them unlucky guns that miss their targets, although fate to interpose an object (say a randomly breaking car) in a particular spot would also be a pretty good way to do it.

    I suggest avoiding anything too absurd* since making it improbable to sleepers right now could have...consequences.



    *Says the guy that just wrote in his other thread about a Mysterium agent being crushed by several crates filled with knock-off pony toys.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Anarion's right on the money here.
    Quotes

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    Fred: "I want to steal"

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    You just highlandered an entire city block into a glass-filled storm by road-runnering down it in your underwear.

    A Lorry having a minor accident right now is about as far from implausible as I can imagine, really.
    The contents of the truck aren't that important, long as they get in the way and are non-fatal. Cardboard boxes would be perfect, especially filled with packing material, because it would be disruptive, get everywhere, and everyone instinctively expects boxes of packing material inside lorries.

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    You just highlandered an entire city block into a glass-filled storm by road-runnering down it in your underwear.
    I am laughing so hard right now, you have no idea.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Anarion's right on the money here.
    Quotes

    "Fred's a talking horse, he can do whatever he wants."

    Fred: "I want to steal"

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    It's possibly the single greatest mental image of the campaign so far.

    Shortlist for amusing, legitimately possible things to interrupt the standoff by spilling from the back of a truck;

    Milk (powdered or otherwise)
    Molasses
    Flour
    Bees
    Cocaine

    Edit; The cocaine was hidden in the walls of the truck it spilled out of, so we could have a spill consisting of 14 million bees AND a ton of Cocaine. I'd probably need extra successes for that one.
    Last edited by Tiki Snakes; 2012-11-11 at 02:43 PM.

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    I am not planning a game, I'm afraid.
    By the looks of things, anyone who is will have no trouble finding players.

    So, it's my understanding that essentially, if it can be phrased as "What are the chances of...happening?" It's possibly a valid use of fate, right?

    So, What are the chances that all hostile actions happening up the street there fail? (Ie, what level of Fate would I need, and if I have it, what is my dice pool likely to be?)
    You're right in that this is how Fate works. However, in terms of hard mechanical effects, try to refer it to things in the book. If you curse someone with, say, the Evil Eye you might have no idea what that's going to do. It may apparently do nothing. And then, five minutes later, a pelican will land on the guy's head and barf a live fish down the front of his pants during an important conversation. You won't guarantee that the conversation fails, but you'll be inflicting a serious penalty on it.

    Basically, you can't say "Everything there fails". You can make it more or less likely that everything there fails, and Fate will work out the specifics. If you roll well and have a cool idea for what the specifics are then post 'em but a big part of Fate is starting from the top down and not worrying about the specifics.

    The main problem is that you can't see what's going on through the rain, and targeting stuff like that is Sensory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    You just highlandered an entire city block into a glass-filled storm by road-runnering down it in your underwear.
    This is the game's most quoteable quote.
    Last edited by Thanqol; 2012-11-11 at 03:27 PM.
    "Any person, aggressive clowns or hunters of clowns, discovered in possession of a weapon on the highway will be arrested."

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post

    This is the game's most quoteable quote.
    Yes, yes it is. If it's okay with you Tiki, I think I'm going to add that to my signature.

    On the game, blargh, stupid strength+brawl+magic armor. Okay, I can still cast a spell this turn, so the turn bullets vulgar magic isn't off the table, but before I risk that, are any of the following possible actions instead?
    1. instead of running into Slade, run into the family at an angle at high speed, knocking the guns' aim off
    2. use control sound to amplify the ambient whirlwind of madness and Tessen's shouted "no!" into a sonic effect strong enough to stun the shooters (much preferred due to being covert)
    3. Throw something using the much preferred dexterity+athletics or dexterity+firearms attributes to knock the guns' aim off
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Anarion's right on the money here.
    Quotes

    "Fred's a talking horse, he can do whatever he wants."

    Fred: "I want to steal"

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    You're right in that this is how Fate works. However, in terms of hard mechanical effects, try to refer it to things in the book. If you curse someone with, say, the Evil Eye you might have no idea what that's going to do. It may apparently do nothing. And then, five minutes later, a pelican will land on the guy's head and barf a live fish down the front of his pants during an important conversation. You won't guarantee that the conversation fails, but you'll be inflicting a serious penalty on it.

    Basically, you can't say "Everything there fails". You can make it more or less likely that everything there fails, and Fate will work out the specifics. If you roll well and have a cool idea for what the specifics are then post 'em but a big part of Fate is starting from the top down and not worrying about the specifics.

    The main problem is that you can't see what's going on through the rain, and targeting stuff like that is Sensory.
    Well, stacking the odds so failure is more likely is close enough to making things fail that it's practically what I meant, so that's fine.
    Also, Evil Eye is a single target vs person kind of spell. Would it also be used as the model for the suggestion we're discussing, of making a crowd of people less likely to successfully target each other or making it more likely something will interrupt them? Or would that basically mean that to affect anything more than a single person you need the next dot up, like with granting other people defences?

    From the top-down view, the spell's purpose would be to stop the people in the distant confrontation from shooting each other, of course.

    Given the lack of a good line of sight, I'll probably not bother either way this round, but it would still be useful knowing.

    Edit: Of course, Sig away.
    Last edited by Tiki Snakes; 2012-11-11 at 04:30 PM.

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadly View Post
    Damn, I just thought of a great Mastigos character, and now I really, really want a chance to play him. Anyone planning a game? Anyone?

    Quick summary, haven't worked out much in the way of a background or anything:

    Shadow Name: Core Fandango (I absolutely love this name)
    Mastigos, Guardians of the Veil
    Mind, Space, Forces (that order or priority)
    Hacker, gun enthusiast, and devilishly handsome nice guy

    He was supposed to have a familiar (a really, really scruffy dog to contrast his own impeccable looks), but these things are so damn expensive, so maybe just an ordinary dog. Or whatever works, once I work out his actual background.
    Tentatively? I am at my limit for game capacity right now though. I am web letting technicalities slow down Gathering of Mists – if I remember I'll post there hen I get to work, but it's difficult with my memory.

    Six months too long?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    I am not planning a game, I'm afraid.
    By the looks of things, anyone who is will have no trouble finding players.

    So, it's my understanding that essentially, if it can be phrased as "What are the chances of...happening?" It's possibly a valid use of fate, right?

    So, What are the chances that all hostile actions happening up the street there fail? (Ie, what level of Fate would I need, and if I have it, what is my dice pool likely to be?)
    Compelling is 2, fraying is three, and an extra dot required for advanced use. Dropping everyone by a die would probably be fate 3/space 2 at the moment.

    The practices are what I suggest looking at. They help you grasp what you can do at your rank, period.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    I am laughing so hard right now, you have no idea.
    Oh yeah.

    Goodness, could you imagine what the shadow must look like? Hoodies riding around in feral car spirits firing ghost bullets from their sleeves as monstrous piles of poker chips in zootsuits battle with pimp cane-swords during a glass storm while observer spirit just kind of mosey into the line of fire.

    And far above, a frankensteinian pony/gryffon/stag/deer/dragon/lion cavorts in glee.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    Yes, yes it is. If it's okay with you Tiki, I think I'm going to add that to my signature.

    On the game, blargh, stupid strength+brawl+magic armor. Okay, I can still cast a spell this turn, so the turn bullets vulgar magic isn't off the table, but before I risk that, are any of the following possible actions instead?
    1. instead of running into Slade, run into the family at an angle at high speed, knocking the guns' aim off
    2. use control sound to amplify the ambient whirlwind of madness and Tessen's shouted "no!" into a sonic effect strong enough to stun the shooters (much preferred due to being covert)
    3. Throw something using the much preferred dexterity+athletics or dexterity+firearms attributes to knock the guns' aim off
    you could use Slade as a subtle anchor to put yourself in front of him. You've got armor, provide cover and he has armor 4.

    Forces 4, you could probably convert a lot of velocity into a lot of light? The guns go off, a bullet plunks out the barrel tip and everyone is blind?
    You could try a rain boom, where you stop suddenly and convert your momentum trough you from potential into kinetic force, launching a ballistic missile of glass and hellfire past you as your body is ravaged by the stresses of instant acceleration (mitigated by allowing the energy to pass through you unabated and continue without a matter shell).

    Or do you want good ideas?
    Make strange what is comfortable.

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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    Well, stacking the odds so failure is more likely is close enough to making things fail that it's practically what I meant, so that's fine.
    Also, Evil Eye is a single target vs person kind of spell. Would it also be used as the model for the suggestion we're discussing, of making a crowd of people less likely to successfully target each other or making it more likely something will interrupt them? Or would that basically mean that to affect anything more than a single person you need the next dot up, like with granting other people defences?

    From the top-down view, the spell's purpose would be to stop the people in the distant confrontation from shooting each other, of course.

    Given the lack of a good line of sight, I'll probably not bother either way this round, but it would still be useful knowing.

    Edit: Of course, Sig away.
    Take a look at page 118 of the core book. It explains all the advanced spell factors. If you know that a spell that does the thing that you want to one target is fate 2, then doing it to a bunch of targets is fate 2 at significant penalty, or fate 3 at a much-reduced penalty.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    Compelling is 2, fraying is three, and an extra dot required for advanced use. Dropping everyone by a die would probably be fate 3/space 2 at the moment.

    The practices are what I suggest looking at. They help you grasp what you can do at your rank, period.
    I tried looking these over, but I don't find them all that helpful in many contexts. It doesn't help much figuring out whether something if vulgar and covert, and only gives you a broad generalization.

    Looking at Tiki's proposed thing, it could be shielding, ruling, weaving, or patterning, among others, depending on the details he ends up selecting.
    you could use Slade as a subtle anchor to put yourself in front of him. You've got armor, provide cover and he has armor 4.
    I'm trying to avoid getting shot instead of Slade. The ideal solution is no (more) paradoxes and nobody gets shot.
    Forces 4, you could probably convert a lot of velocity into a lot of light? The guns go off, a bullet plunks out the barrel tip and everyone is blind?
    You could try a rain boom, where you stop suddenly and convert your momentum trough you from potential into kinetic force, launching a ballistic missile of glass and hellfire past you as your body is ravaged by the stresses of instant acceleration (mitigated by allowing the energy to pass through you unabated and continue without a matter shell).

    Or do you want good ideas?
    I assume that anything converting the bullets' velocity is as vulgar and dangerous as the spell that lets you slightly shift the bullets' velocity 45 degrees. I'd love to be wrong because if there's a covert way to make multiple bullets misfire, that would be quite nice. A matter mage would be great here. My idea with sonic is that there's already enough ambient noise and a loud shout, so the spell becomes amplification, which is covert, rather than transformation or creation, which is vulgar.

    Also, I essentially already did a sonic rainboom. I think we should quit while we're ahead not being sucked directly into the abyss.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Anarion's right on the money here.
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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    Also, I essentially already did a sonic rainboom. I think we should quit while we're ahead not being sucked directly into the abyss.
    Bright side: at least we don't have enough Gnosis to re-emerge as Qliphoths.
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    Default Re: Skyscraper Graveyard II: Jealousy and Ambition

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    I tried looking these over, but I don't find them all that helpful in many contexts. It doesn't help much figuring out whether something if vulgar and covert, and only gives you a broad generalization.
    Praxis, vulgarity, and mana cost are all three separate factors. Of course one doesn't tell you the other. Your use does however.

    Practice shows you the limit within that dot frame.
    Vulgarity is mostly about how unlikely something. Is, with a caveat that most attack forms are also vulgar. Compelling sound, heat, light? Covert. Fire? Vulgar, because it can be used to attack. Electricity? Vulgar as Ana track, covert when manipulating electric locks. There's a rule about affecting someone else's pattern here. I can't recall it.

    Mana is "is this so good it's broken without a mana cost?".

    Looking at Tiki's proposed thing, it could be shielding, ruling, weaving, or patterning, among others, depending on the details he ends up selecting.
    What he wants to do would not be shielding. Shielding is "all things attacking target is penalized", which is backwards. He wants the targets to be penalized. Compelling is a nudge, which is why I said -1 die. Compelling is 1, so compelling beyon the stated limits of a spell (from touch to sensory, or sensory to sympathy; from a single target to multiple, etc.) requires 2 dots.

    That it could be patterning or weaving is pointless. Jack cannot pattern or weave, yes? So we stick to what he can do. I recall him having Fate 3, and hero derp I crossed patterning/weaving a bit there. Weaving is 3, but seems to work like shielding; a boon not a bane. Luck is weird like that though. Compelling canon crease or decrease luck, where the UR-examples of lucky coin and monkey's paw are specifically perfecting and fraying.

    Interestingly, space/fate/life 1 each could protect Slade, if you could see him, by reversing Sharpshooter's Eye (though that may require fate 2).

    I'm trying to avoid getting shot instead of Slade. The ideal solution is no (more) paradoxes and nobody gets shot.
    [redacted]

    I assume that anything converting the bullets' velocity is as vulgar and dangerous as the spell that lets you slightly shift the bullets' velocity 45 degrees. I'd love to be wrong because if there's a covert way to make multiple bullets misfire, that would be quite nice. A matter mage would be great here. My idea with sonic is that there's already enough ambient noise and a loud shout, so the spell becomes amplification, which is covert, rather than transformation or creation, which is vulgar.

    Also, I essentially already did a sonic rainboom. I think we should quit while we're ahead not being sucked directly into the abyss.
    Spoilsport~

    Logic alone. Logic says that if even your grandma pulls a gun on you and starts shooting, you run. Right? The trick is not dying in those three seconds of "Grandma, is this about when—" when she pulls the trigger. So if Slade survives turn 1, you'll be clear. How much are you willing to sacrifice to get Slade through the next 3 seconds? Personally, I would bring the entire burden of fallout on myself, to get everyone else out. Part of why I was considering the marines.

    Tessen is an Obrimos; strength tempered by control. But the urge of strength is there. Would she feel better crawling over to Kurosawa for another favor, and limping to dinner with Cyprus, or would she feel better possibly (probably?) losing her charge because she chose not to act when she could? I think the game is custome-tailored for these situations. Being shot can get out of hand from "I'm wounded" to "When is the next game? About a year?" but so can paradox.

    Can magic affect anomalous manifestations? Or the detritus of such? Because there's a roiling cloud of "you can't shoot what you can't see" like, right there. Terrain effects are useful, says the changeling queen what blinded a thorn-man.
    Make strange what is comfortable.

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