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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Fortuna's Avatar

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    Default Building a Dragonborn Con/Cha Paladin - any advice?

    So my brother is running a 4e game. I had been playing a Goliath Paladin, but after some closer inspection I realized that actually a bunch of things (most especially Mighty Challenge) don't work the way I thought they did. Since we most likely won't be playing for a fortnight or so, I thought I'd take this opportunity to respec entirely into one of my favourite races - the Dragonborn.

    A little background. We're playing through the Scales of War adventure path with four people, although that may go up to five. The rest of the party includes an assault swordmage who doesn't seem to be doing very much, so he's mostly done minion clearing; an archer ranger who is doing as awesomely as you'd expect; and a battle cleric about whom I can think of no especial comment, good or bad.

    We're currently level 3, so there's not a great range of choices at present. Obviously Draconic Challenge is a must-have. For my second feat I'm torn between Bolstering Breath and Io's Challenge - with the latter I would be intending to let myself drop to bloodied in the first fight and use Virtue, a high Con mod and the standard Paladin defensive gear to stay upright through later encounters, netting me a Divine Challenge nearly as strong as if I'd gone Str/Cha and taken Mighty Challenge. My stat array would probably be 11/16/10/8/10/20, for maximal sanction punishment and good hit points, surges and surge value.

    Power-wise, I need a decent MBA, so one of my at-wills goes on Virtuous Strike. Given that my sanction is already dishing out 8 damage every time, Ardent Strike is a very tempting second choice, but not quite so essential - it's pencilled in for now. Valorous Smite is a great way to keep up the multi-marking, which means either more damage for the foe or less for my friends. Virtue, of course, will help to keep me in the sweet spot of bloodied but not dead - although I am very sad that I can't get Call of Challenge and Virtue at the same time, and CoC is one of the strongest arguments for Bolstering Breath over Io's Challenge. Avenging Smite will help me to deal more damage, of course, and if I keep my friends close then my enemies will be closer.

    In terms of gear, I intend to keep what I had before the respec. That means a Sunblade long sword, a level 7 Badge of the Berserker that we found as loot, and a suit of Meliorating Plate, along with a mundane heavy shield and miscellany.

    So. Any thoughts? Any traps I've fallen into? Any brilliance that I've missed? Tell me, oh mighty Playground, thy wisdom.
    Last edited by Fortuna; 2012-09-23 at 10:39 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Drglenn's Avatar

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    Default Re: Building a Dragonborn Con/Cha Paladin - any advice?

    You need a decent wisdom score as that'll determing the number of lay on hands (or whatever alternate you take) uses each day as well as the riders on some of your powers. I'd reccomend a statline of 10/16/13/8/14/18 post-racials (assuming a 22 point buy, also the str and int could be swapped around to no real detriment).
    Last edited by Drglenn; 2012-09-24 at 06:04 AM.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Building a Dragonborn Con/Cha Paladin - any advice?

    For Virtuous Strike, Power of the Sun gives vulnerability to radiant damage which will make your DC or DS damage hurt even more if they dare violate your mark.

    Enfeebling strike is a good secondary at-will. Never hurts to slap an even bigger attack penalty on marked opponents. The Power of Tyranny feat adds a save penalty to the power whether you hit or miss the target.

    I'm a fan of taking expertise feats early. In particular, if you're sword and board, you should grab Devout Protector Expertise. Bonus to hit for both weapon and holy symbol powers and all of your allies get a free +1 shield bonus to AC as long as you use a shield.

    If you're allowed Dragonmark feats, you can always grab Mark of Warding. Your mark penalty increases to -3 and you get +1 bonus to the effectiveness of any power you use that increases you defenses.
    Last edited by ghost_warlock; 2012-09-24 at 06:45 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
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    Default Re: Building a Dragonborn Con/Cha Paladin - any advice?

    Some interesting advice all around.

    Virtuous Strike + Power of the Sun is extremely tempting. Handing out radiant vulnerability while wielding a sunblade is a thing to which I have trouble saying no, particularly when we also have a cleric in the party.

    I'm not massively worried about wisdom, but I suppose it won't hurt me to lose a bit of charisma. That makes Io's Challenge even more tempting, of course.

    I think I really do like Ardent Strike for my second at-will. I'm reasonably confident that my existing mark punishment is a good enough deterrent for the time being, so spreading the marks around is a good next step.

    In terms of my next feat: the choices seem now to have expanded to Power of the Sun, Bolstering Breath, Io's Challenge or Devout Protector Expertise (Dragonmark feats are not on the table, I fear). While I would love to have all of them, obviously I can't yet. Bolstering Breath appeals because it changes how I use my dragon breath - instead of needing to work around allies, I suddenly want to catch allies in it. DPE is somewhat less desirable than it might be, since as I recall two of the other three party members already have a shield bonus to AC, so that the extra benefit is essentially "The ranger gets a +1 shield bonus to AC". At that point I could just take Heavy Blade Expertise instead and get as much or more out of it, since I have no great desire to take any implement powers anytime soon, and if I ever did want to I could retrain. Power of the Sun is awesome indeed, although I suspect my DM would swear the sky blue in response. And, of course, Io's Challenge gives a nice bit of bite to my DC while I'm bloodied. This is where I really feel I need advice, and I'd be grateful for anyone comparing the benefits of these feats.
    Last edited by Fortuna; 2012-09-24 at 01:30 PM.
    If I creep into your house in the dead of night and strangle you while you sleep, you probably messed up your grammar.

    I'm always extremely careful to hedge myself against absolute statements.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Building a Dragonborn Con/Cha Paladin - any advice?

    Oh, and there's also Power of Strife, which augments Ardent Strike so that it does (+1/2/3 by tier) extra damage to the target for each other enemy within 3 squares. Probably not as cool as Power of the Sun, but could still dish out a fair amount of hurt if the baddies are clustered (ask a buddy for help setting that up).

    As for Heavy Blade vs. Devout Protector it really depends on how often you think you'll be provoking AoOs. The last paladin I played was a hybrid paladin|warlock and I'm pretty sure the only time I ever provoked was when I used a ranged warlock power in melee or decided it was worth provoking in order to get my Shadow Walk (and even that was pretty rare). That may be a playstyle thing, though.

    When taking feats I usually ask myself "how often will this come up?" I tend to take feats that modify at-wills before taking ones that modify encounter powers and feats that modify a group of powers before ones that modify a single power. Hence why I usually start with expertise feats since they modify all of my powers. They're boring, but less boring than wasting a turn on a missed attack.

    Bolstering Breath and Draconic Challenge are great feats, but both of them modify a single power that can only be used once per encounter. Similarly, Io's Challenge is great but if your DC/DS are already doing serious damage then you can probably afford to focus on something else for the time being. If enemies never violate your mark then feats spent buffing it could have been put to better use elsewhere.
    Last edited by ghost_warlock; 2012-09-24 at 04:50 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
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    Default Re: Building a Dragonborn Con/Cha Paladin - any advice?

    Draconic challenge is already taken - no questions asked. With the damage my divine sanction deals, and the certain knowledge that my DM is more than happy to accept mark punishment in exchange for an attack of opportunity against one of my buddies, I am more than happy to spend a minor action every encounter on a Close Blast 3 guaranteed divine sanction. The damage is gravy.

    And interestingly, I find that at this level my at-wills barely see play. I'll probably use one of them as I charge into the fray at the start of the encounter, and another of them maybe once if I find that all the enemies around me have gone BOOM and I need to charge again, but I usually get through the rest of the encounter on my two encounter powers.

    Devout Protector vs. Heavy Blade is basically a no-brainer at this stage. With no implement attacks, and exactly one ally getting a single point of AC out of it, I'd rather have Heavy Blade to let me dance around with near-impunity in melee for flanking and similar. I take opportunity attacks much more often than the ranger takes attacks against AC.

    On reflection, I don't think Strife and Sun are options. In order to fit in with the rest of the party (and in particular the very mace-happy cleric) I'm going with Ioun, who sadly doesn't have either of those domains. Optimality is one thing, being on good terms with the leader is another.

    Your point about my DC already being nasty is a good one, so I guess I'll pass on Io's Challenge for now. That leaves it between Bolstering Breath and Heavy Blade Expertise, and of the two I'd rather have Bolstering Breath just now. I hit often enough as it is, and my friends often get entangled in melee before I can do anything, so being able to mark everyone and give my friends a bonus to hit without worrying about frying/freezing/zapping/poisoning/the-other-one-ing them to death is nice enough to be worth having. I'll probably take Heavy Blade Expertise on level up, and think about sixth level closer to the time. Thank you for your thoughts!
    If I creep into your house in the dead of night and strangle you while you sleep, you probably messed up your grammar.

    I'm always extremely careful to hedge myself against absolute statements.

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