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    Default Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    So, my friends and I often debate the results of a single WAAAAGH! landing on various planets in various universes, but we came to a standstill on this one. Your thoughts?

    The scenario goes as follows:

    Shortly before the events of Wings of Liberty (SC II), a standard-sized WAAAAGH! impacts with the Zerg-held world of Tarsonis. Is the Swarm capable of either slaying or assimilating the WAAAGH! before it can take the planet and begin invading other worlds in the sector?


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    How are the Orks getting to Tarsonis? Kroozers, a space hulk or lots of Roks?

    What's the Waaagh's composition? An invasion force involving gargants making planetfall is a significantly bigger threat than lots of roks full of boyz, although easier to root out.

    We need more info on the Waaagh as while there is a standard size for one (there's a critical mass number of orks required to trigger it), there's there's no such thing as a standard one.
    Last edited by Brother Oni; 2012-09-26 at 05:22 AM.

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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Oni View Post
    How are the Orks getting to Tarsonis? Kroozers, a space hulk or lots of Roks?

    What's the Waaagh's composition? An invasion force involving gargants making planetfall is a significantly bigger threat than lots of roks full of boyz, although easier to root out.

    We need more info on the Waaagh as while there is a standard size for one (there's a critical mass number of orks required to trigger it), there's there's no such thing as a standard one.
    Hrm, interesting. Let us say a load of primarily Boyz (pre-equipped with some looted vehicles) delivered primarily through Roks, and then we can alter the scenario from there after we hash it out some.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    The Zerg have air power no contest with scourges, and devourers. However, against any fortified ground position or position backed with vehicles, there's not a lot the organic targets can do against bolters. The standard ammunition literally is designed to destroy the enemy they're facing.

    The only thing I have to say on that, is that well, none of their fire power really matters aside from that.

    Squiggoths are bigger, nastier, and usually gun laden ultralisks. Bolters are many times more powerful than standard terran weaponry that shreds through zerglings, and the looted vehicle firepower that they bring to bear is easily more than enough to shred through whatever siege tanks can bring to bear.

    Hydralisks don't do enough damage to the Ork type targets at range, and while Roach's DO possess the firepower they lack range, being limited to a distance of but a few meters.

    The only question is if the Ork line up here is Bad Moonz or some other more vehicle reliant WAAAAAGH! because they wouldn't be able to keep up a protracted conflict without Gargantz and Squiggoths.

    It also depends on the Warboss leading it, as it can range from "Mentally Retarded" to "Brutal Kunning."

    All this said, Starcraft is still marginally better written than any Ork centric 40k fiction I've ever read. The Zerg are just more interesting opponents.
    Last edited by Fan; 2012-09-26 at 10:27 AM.
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Yeah. The problem with the 40k universe is if you can survive a week, then you're really badass and invincible in practically every other universe. The Orks would probably have the advantage due to them being part fungus and easily becomes an investation, even for the zerg.

    One thing I can say though, the Orks will still love having the fight regardless of who wins.

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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Probably depends on the density of the swarm, as well. Tarsonis was infested, but it was never a core hive world like Char. Zerg are best compared to a weaker, paler strain of Tyranids, so if the Orks didn't bring enough ammo with them (they're not going to find any reloads on a Tarsonis, and WAAAAUGH power can't actually spawn ammo out of thin air because of how it works), they'll probably get overrun in the end. Because Zerg have the air, and thus the ability to bombard with either Guardian spores or Broodlings beyond the ranges the Orks will be able to (accurately) retaliate, I gotta give this to the native defenders in the end*.

    Creep will grow back over the area they had landed in, and for the next few hundred years, every Zerg hatched on Tarsonis will be an odd shade of green.


    *That doesn't mean the Orks lose though, remember. If they win, they win. If they're dead, it doesn't count. If they run away, they can always come back and try again.
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2012-09-26 at 10:36 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by GungHo, on Battletech
    The Atlas is also goofy but it has that whole "Stay Puft Marshmallow Man" menacing smile thing going for it. The guy who drew that one up was obviously taken to the Nutcracker when he was a child... and he was screaming in terror the entire time.
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    What about Lurkers? Can Orks even see them?

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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    ...let's not start the Starcraft Cloaking/Hidden Units debate all over again.
    Quote Originally Posted by GungHo, on Battletech
    The Atlas is also goofy but it has that whole "Stay Puft Marshmallow Man" menacing smile thing going for it. The guy who drew that one up was obviously taken to the Nutcracker when he was a child... and he was screaming in terror the entire time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enterti, Cogidubnus
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Was that the one between ...Terrans and Star Wars Universe?
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Yeah, only a few weeks ago, though there it was Starcraft Cloaking vs. Star Wars Cloak Detection. It was a mess.
    Quote Originally Posted by GungHo, on Battletech
    The Atlas is also goofy but it has that whole "Stay Puft Marshmallow Man" menacing smile thing going for it. The guy who drew that one up was obviously taken to the Nutcracker when he was a child... and he was screaming in terror the entire time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enterti, Cogidubnus
    Glyphstone, out of all the playground I think you scare me the most...
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    Glyphstone, you are an evil person :D

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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Yeah, only a few weeks ago, though there it was Starcraft Cloaking vs. Star Wars Cloak Detection. It was a mess.
    But Jedi at least make sense in being able to detect cloaked units.

    Not sure if the Empire could... But I don't feel like debating issue.

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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Oh I remember, I tend to lurk the vs. 40k threads and that one was pretty interesting all things considered.
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Lurkers were a phased out strain well before Wings of Liberty though.

    And well, the only reason I give Zerg the air is their ability to mass. Fighta Bombas are infinitely more destructive than a Mutalisk, but with their anti air suicide units, devourers, mutalisks, and then you have Hydras, and a multitude of other specific anti air measures it really just goes to who can fill the skies the thickest.

    And the Zerg win that in spades.

    It's the ground battle they lose.
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    You may be giving the Orks too much credit in that ground battle. You're assuming Orks have bolters as standard, which is far from universal. The 'default' Ork weapon, as far as they have one ("Slugga/Shoota" can describe pretty much any gun), is much more likely to be a traditional slugthrower, even if it is firing slugs the size of walnuts. Compared to both Space Marine bolters and Terran Marine hypersonic gauss rifles, the Orks are coming off decidedly on the short end of the stick in terms of raw firepower - which is fitting, the Orks use volume to make up for things like accuracy or penetration.

    Squiggoths are more like Ultralisks with guns and worse melee - they can stomp all over stuff, but the 'Lisks were bred for being living siege rams, one charging with its head down is going to plow right through anything an Ork force is going to be able to block it with, and an Ultralisk in melee is a scary, scary thing. They might have brought some looted vehicles with them, but looted tanks are notoriously unreliable, and they're unlikely to have them in any overwhelming number, so it's merely an advantage rather than a game-breaker. Zerg unquestionably lose the range advantage, but that might not be very relevant with Ork 'accuracy' and their innate preference to engage as close to point-blank melee as they can anyways.

    If it's a Flash Gitz or Bad Moons-heavy WAAAUGH, I'd give the Orks a serious fighting chance. A mixed or un-affiliated one, though, is more likely to end up playing into the Zerg's claws by voluntarily closing to melee where their ranged disadvantage is mutually negated.
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2012-09-26 at 11:11 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by GungHo, on Battletech
    The Atlas is also goofy but it has that whole "Stay Puft Marshmallow Man" menacing smile thing going for it. The guy who drew that one up was obviously taken to the Nutcracker when he was a child... and he was screaming in terror the entire time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enterti, Cogidubnus
    Glyphstone, out of all the playground I think you scare me the most...
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    Glyphstone, you are an evil person :D

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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    ...let's not start the Starcraft Cloaking/Hidden Units debate all over again.
    This is a different thing though. It isnt a tech based stealth, its them hiding underground. Can the orks detect stuff hiding in the ground? Or would they have to blow up the earth in the general vicinity of where the lurker seems to be attacking them? Honestly, I wouldnt even try to claim that it requires anything all that special to detect the hidden zerg, they just burrow into the ground, they arent blocking out infrared or radiowaves or whatever technobabble electronic stealth the terrans and protoss use.
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    You may be giving the Orks too much credit in that ground battle. You're assuming Orks have bolters as standard, which is far from universal. The 'default' Ork weapon, as far as they have one ("Slugga/Shoota" can describe pretty much any gun), is much more likely to be a traditional slugthrower, even if it is firing slugs the size of walnuts. Compared to both Space Marine bolters and Terran Marine hypersonic gauss rifles, the Orks are coming off decidedly on the short end of the stick in terms of raw firepower - which is fitting, the Orks use volume to make up for things like accuracy or penetration.

    Squiggoths are more like Ultralisks with guns and worse melee - they can stomp all over stuff, but the 'Lisks were bred for being living siege rams, one charging with its head down is going to plow right through anything an Ork force is going to be able to block it with, and an Ultralisk in melee is a scary, scary thing. They might have brought some looted vehicles with them, but looted tanks are notoriously unreliable, and they're unlikely to have them in any overwhelming number, so it's merely an advantage rather than a game-breaker. Zerg unquestionably lose the range advantage, but that might not be very relevant with Ork 'accuracy' and their innate preference to engage as close to point-blank melee as they can anyways.

    If it's a Flash Gitz or Bad Moons-heavy WAAAUGH, I'd give the Orks a serious fighting chance. A mixed or un-affiliated one, though, is more likely to end up playing into the Zerg's claws by voluntarily closing to melee where their ranged disadvantage is mutually negated.
    I've read the Starcraft Books.

    In one of the novels, a team of Zealots (4) takes down an ultralisk due to it's lack of manueverability, and weapons aside from it's tusks, and they are a solely melee unit with no method of ranged attack.

    If it gets going at ramming speed, and isn't stopped by the concussive firepower that the orks can throw out? Sure, but with over penetration surely being in the orks favor + explosive rounds + more advanced flame thrower technology (if only given the radioactive nature of the promethium used as standard in ork flamer fuel.) I'd hazard that they can melt enemies just as efficiently as Terrans do with having naturally more durable soldiers, and the addition of Mekboyz.

    Also, the Ork firepower generally delivers a round that explodes or have increased armor penetration to compensate according to the Ork Codex entry on Shootahs, so they can be assumed to be around the same usefulness as a bolter around half the time.

    The ultralisks hide though doesn't mean a lot when explosive payloads are delivered inside it, and 40k firepower generally lines up in documented feats with what the Gauss Rifle has been able to do.
    Last edited by Fan; 2012-09-26 at 11:26 AM.
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    I can easily see 4 Zealots taking out an Ultralisk, but they're basically Eldar On Steroids anyways, and 'Lisks aren't meant to fight individual agile enemies that way, they're ramming engines with giant scythe-tusks for carving up massed opponents - Orks are probably the best 40K opponent for Ultralisks in that regard aside from Tyranids, the Zerg opposite number (and Carnifexes would probably beat them).

    If we use game/codex stats as a (very rough) comparison, Shoota rounds - on average - have the same destructive strength as a bolter round with a slightly lesser ability to penetrate armor, so maybe 1/3 of shootas would be bolter-quality firepower. You did point out that Ultralisks and Squiggoths are built on roughly the same scale, and it takes a heck of a lot of bolter/shoota rounds to bring down a Squiggoth. Then again, they're big enough that it'll be easy even for Orks to hit, so possibly a wash.

    I still think that the Orks will end up at a disadvantage because of their propensity and preference to settle things 'The Orky Way' - in melee. Their guns are better, but not enough better that they can give up their numerical weight, and it's usually un-Orky to build fortifications and hide behind them. Eventually, burrowed Baneling bombs will teach them to be cautious whenever they venture outside whatever earthworks they've built, but whether that happens before or after they've committed to a massive and possibly decisive brawl is uncertain.
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2012-09-26 at 11:36 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by GungHo, on Battletech
    The Atlas is also goofy but it has that whole "Stay Puft Marshmallow Man" menacing smile thing going for it. The guy who drew that one up was obviously taken to the Nutcracker when he was a child... and he was screaming in terror the entire time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enterti, Cogidubnus
    Glyphstone, out of all the playground I think you scare me the most...
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombimode
    Glyphstone, you are an evil person :D

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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Howling Banshee's are a BIT better than Bog Standard Zealots (Not that one can call a Zealot bog standard.), if only because power weapons can soul rape in an Eldar's hand.

    However, you're right, that's why I said the warboss would be the deciding factor.

    Someone like Ghaz'gkull would realize that they need to build up a huge squiggoth, stompahz, and gargant force to take a zerg held world, and that anti air defenses would be chief in getting those defenses set up.

    However, Zerg are one thing. Squishy, whereas Orks have an almost retarded amount of durability, having no actual anatomy to speak of.
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Is it the opinion of the community that the conflict would last long enough for the Swarm to begin assimilating Ork strains, and what effect do we feel this would have? Zerg assimilation is quite the bit different from tyranids (who don't actually assimilate), Borg (who would probably be psychically eaten by the Orks) or the Flood (you're kidding, right?) insofar as the Swarm incorporates whatever's beneficial into the Swarm as a whole and then phases out things it doesn't want - possibly including the "programmed" behaviors that make Orks so difficult to control psionically.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Nah - even Tyranids take years/decades/centuries to incorporate entirely new strains into their metageonome, and based on what I remember from the Starcraft 1 manual, the Zerg work on a similarly long-term scale. Besides, "Swarm incorporates whatever's beneficial into the Swarm as a whole and then phases out things it doesn't want " is pretty much a word-for-word description of how the Tyranids incorporate beneficial genetic material into their swarms.

    However, Zerg are one thing. Squishy, whereas Orks have an almost retarded amount of durability, having no actual anatomy to speak of.
    Zerg aren't that squishy - they do have armor plates and stuff, though they are more squishy than Orks - not that Orks don't have anatomy, they're just massively redundant and highly resilient. They still have arms and legs and stuff, just that cutting off an Ork's arm is good reason for him to beat you to death with his own severed limb, and decapitating an Ork is fatal unless a Doc gets to him quick enough to sew it back on to his body. They've got digestive tracts and internal organs (sometimes, this is another thing that seems to vary widely by edition), but again, losing them or suffering gut wounds isn't incapacitating like it is for a human.
    Quote Originally Posted by GungHo, on Battletech
    The Atlas is also goofy but it has that whole "Stay Puft Marshmallow Man" menacing smile thing going for it. The guy who drew that one up was obviously taken to the Nutcracker when he was a child... and he was screaming in terror the entire time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enterti, Cogidubnus
    Glyphstone, out of all the playground I think you scare me the most...
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombimode
    Glyphstone, you are an evil person :D

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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    To be fair, chances are they only have intestines so that when they are fighting to decide who is the bigger and orkier, the winner can rip them out of the loser.


    As for incorporating Ork traits, that strikes me as not a guaranteed thing. They are after all pretty significantly different to anything else the Zerg have encountered. It could result in tougher Zerg, is unlikely to result in smarter Zerg, or it could end up creating a new ravening hoarde of buglike Orks who simply end up carrying on doing things exactly as Orks always do, but with more gribblyness.

    In general terms, It's not like Orks haven't fought Tyranids before. I'm sure I heard about some thing where a Tyranid fleet was directed into the path of an Ork Waaagh and the result of the battle was something like; there is no result yet, they're still going.

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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    We already know how this turns out because the Zerg are a direct ripoff of the Tyranids, who the Orks already fight. Namely, they have an extremely drawn-out stalemate in which the Orks get bigger because they're fighting all the time and the Tyranids Zerg make bigger and nastier warbeasts to deal with it and so on and so forth.
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    To be fair, chances are they only have intestines so that when they are fighting to decide who is the bigger and orkier, the winner can rip them out of the loser.


    As for incorporating Ork traits, that strikes me as not a guaranteed thing. They are after all pretty significantly different to anything else the Zerg have encountered. It could result in tougher Zerg, is unlikely to result in smarter Zerg, or it could end up creating a new ravening hoarde of buglike Orks who simply end up carrying on doing things exactly as Orks always do, but with more gribblyness.

    In general terms, It's not like Orks haven't fought Tyranids before. I'm sure I heard about some thing where a Tyranid fleet was directed into the path of an Ork Waaagh and the result of the battle was something like; there is no result yet, they're still going.
    Wasn't that when the Blood Ravens diverted a Tyrannid fleet into one of the Ork empires, and the result is warbosses the size of mechs or some such? The Orks on the planet being invaded cannot reproduce because their spores are being eaten by Tyrannid cells, but Orks from surronding planets come join "da gud fight" on a daily basis.

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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Zerg are best compared to a weaker, paler strain of Tyranids, so if the Orks didn't bring enough ammo with them (they're not going to find any reloads on a Tarsonis, and WAAAAUGH power can't actually spawn ammo out of thin air because of how it works), they'll probably get overrun in the end.
    If da boyz didn't pack enuff bullets for dere shootas dis is gonna be a disappointinly quiet fight...

    Remember that orky shooting is about 90% enthusiasm, 10% competence, and is really only intended to make an impressive amount of noise before gettin down to some real fightin wiv yer choppa.

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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    If da boyz didn't pack enuff bullets for dere shootas dis is gonna be a disappointinly quiet fight...

    Remember that orky shooting is about 90% enthusiasm, 10% competence, and is really only intended to make an impressive amount of noise before gettin down to some real fightin wiv yer choppa.
    Really depends on the Orks that are in use here.

    There ARE factions of Orks that forgo ranged weaponry entirely, there is a reason they aren't as big as Ghaz'gkull or the Ork empire that focuses solely on burning things, or the Bad Moonz who focus exclusively on vehicle combat.

    If an all melee WAAAAAGH! comes in with a Warboss who lacks the Brutal Kunnin to properly handle this drops in?

    Assimilation.

    If a dedicated vehicle WAAAAAAGH! comes in with plenty of mech boyz to loot old terran equipment.

    Victory.

    People are treating this like it's on Char, but a crucial thing about Tarsonis is that it used to be a Terran held world, and the Terrans have come back to fight on it numerous times.

    I'd imagine there are even a few battle cruisers left to be lootable given the zerg's policy of leaving wreckage around and not giving a flip about machines.

    /Looted Battlecruisers ohgodwhy.

    I can only imagine looted Valkyries, probably end up being called Deff Screamerz or something because of the sound of all those missiles firing at once.
    Last edited by Fan; 2012-09-26 at 10:37 PM.
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    I seem to remember an SC novel - wanna say Shadow of the Xel'Naga - that featured the creation of a new combat-ready strain within a single Brood in less than a month's time. Can anyone confirm if this is canon?


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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    I would probably give it to the Orks. A Waaagh! grows in size as it continues, which means that the Zerg would have to wrap it up immediately or they would be find themselves fighting an ever growing conflict.

    And the Zerg are in a particularly bad place, since their biggest advantage is large numbers of melee units. This also happens to be the biggest advantage of the Orks, which even if they have parity makes it unlikely the Zerg will easily dislodge the Orks. As the Orks continue to gain in size and numbers the Zerg would fall back, which would increase the power of the Waaagh! until it became a green screaming tidal wave.
    Last edited by Tvtyrant; 2012-09-27 at 01:47 AM.

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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    The only way I see this shaking down is the Zerg incorporating the Orks into the Swarm.

    Why you ask? Because a lot of Orks are going to die, are going to be slaughtered and devoured every which way and how, that the Zerg has at their disposal, given the propensity for Orks to readily go into any sort of combat guns blazing at point blank range and giving up their greatest tactical advantage over the forces of the Zerg at large. Not to say that the Orks aren't devoid of tactics entirely, just their standard 'Get em lads' is not going to be particularly effective since they're facing an enemy that can reproduce as fast, if not faster than them and does not have to rely on salvaging equipment for weapons and armor (they just grow it).

    Assuming no particularly crafty and potent Warboss makes his fame by leading this particular Waagh! to success over the force of the Queen of Blades, I'm thinking that the Orks will more or less be 'handled' by the Zerg. Perhaps not eliminated or truly wiped out, but that their numbers will be kept manageable.

    Now, all that said, I would actually call having the Ork DNA incorporated into the Swarm, a win for the Orks! Again, you ask why, and that is because, that's going to potentially make the Zerg considerably more Ork-like . . .
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    The problem with arguing that the Zerg will simply eat the Orks is it implies frequent successes before the feeding can occur. Unless the Zerg are taking little bites as they go, they are going to need fair amounts of undisturbed time to feed. This implies that they drive back the Orks before feeding, or destroy them entirely. If the Orks win the Zerg can't get to the bodies, because they are behind the frontline (and probably fed to the Orks' Squiggogs).

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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    I would probably give it to the Orks. A Waaagh! grows in size as it continues, which means that the Zerg would have to wrap it up immediately or they would be find themselves fighting an ever growing conflict.

    And the Zerg are in a particularly bad place, since their biggest advantage is large numbers of melee units. This also happens to be the biggest advantage of the Orks, which even if they have parity makes it unlikely the Zerg will easily dislodge the Orks. As the Orks continue to gain in size and numbers the Zerg would fall back, which would increase the power of the Waaagh! until it became a green screaming tidal wave.
    Waaaughs don't grow spontaneously, though - their 'growth' is by attracting more warbands and smaller Waaaughs are reinforcements. Individual Orks might become bigger and stronger in response to the fight, but their numbers won't multiple appreciably without additional forces. The Ork life cycle is actually rather slow in regards to growing new orks from spores, and likely much slower than the time it takes to gestate a Zerg larvae into a new combat organism. If the two sides are calling in outside reinforcements in that manner, the Orks are going to get flattened under the weight of the entire Swarm, and if it's limited to on-planet attrition, the Zerg can replace their casualties faster than the Orks can.
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2012-09-27 at 10:32 AM.
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