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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Are they, though? Orks have the technology advantage, but Zerg aren't exactly pushovers, and like the Orks, they are also a purpose-designed genetically engineered species for warfare. Zerglings are the size of a large dog - Great Dane or St. Bernard-size, not Rottweiler, and they come in swarms...Ork Boys might be tough, but I'd expect one to lose against his equivalent mass in Zerglings. Hydralisks are 5.4 meters long - even giving half that to horizontal length, that still leaves 2.7 meters of height, only slightly shorter than the average 3-meter Warboss, and they can spit armor-piercing poisonous spines at hypersonic speeds. I can't get a definitive size quote for Roaches (they have the same collision radius in-game as a Hydralisk, so probably a few meters long and maybe a meter or two tall), but they're heavily armored and spew acidic saliva. Nothing Orks have short of a Squiggoth approaches the size of an Ultralisk - larger than tanks in most appearances, or its destructive ability - a group of nobs with power claws could beat one, but they'd take casualties.

    Orks are individually tough, but as far as infantry go, they're all the same, varying only in degrees of individual height - boyz at seven-eight feet up to ten-twelve feet for the leaders. So I wouldn't go so far as to give them a clear infantry advantage at all.
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    The biggest problem with the Ork infantry would be the aforementioned banelings, if I can trust what's been said about the Ork psychology and technology thus far. They've got low-accuracy short-ranged guns/vehicles and a stronger melee that they enjoy far more. Which is fine, until you're facing a tide of swiftly rolling balls of volatile chemicals that explode with a shower of acid the moment it gets within melee range.

    Effective against buildings, vehicles, and infantry of all stripes. Unless you're smart enough to target them at a decent range and are looking underground for potential threats.
    Last edited by Kitten Champion; 2012-09-28 at 08:21 PM.

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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitten Champion View Post
    The biggest problem with the Ork infantry would be the aforementioned banelings, if I can trust what's been said about the Ork psychology and technology thus far. They've got low-accuracy short-ranged guns/vehicles and a stronger melee that they enjoy far more. Which is fine, until you're facing a tide of swiftly rolling balls of volatile chemicals that explode with a shower of acid the moment it gets within melee range.

    Effective against buildings, vehicles, and infantry of all stripes. Unless you're smart enough to target them at a decent range and are looking underground for potential threats.
    I hadn't even thought about banelings. Your standard Ork mob tends to bunch together and rush straight at the enemy, shooting wildly until they get close enough to chop and slash slightly less wildly.

    The Orks would catch on eventually, but a smart Cerebrate (Or whoever is running the zerg here) would analyze the Ork's tactics, then send in a wave of Banelings. The Orks will cheerfully rush in, and Kaboom, bye bye orks.

    and when the Orks DO catch on, they'll be less equipped (Due to poor accuracy) than an equivalent group of marines to stop Banelings from getting close.
    Last edited by BRC; 2012-09-28 at 08:28 PM.

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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitten Champion View Post
    The biggest problem with the Ork infantry would be the aforementioned banelings, if I can trust what's been said about the Ork psychology and technology thus far. They've got low-accuracy short-ranged guns/vehicles and a stronger melee that they enjoy far more. Which is fine, until you're facing a tide of swiftly rolling balls of volatile chemicals that explode with a shower of acid the moment it gets within melee range.

    Effective against buildings, vehicles, and infantry of all stripes. Unless you're smart enough to target them at a decent range and are looking underground for potential threats.
    "Look out boyz, dey's got Bomb Squigs!"

    Yeah, Orks have their own Banelings.

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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    "Look out boyz, dey's got Bomb Squigs!"

    Yeah, Orks have their own Banelings.
    Not exactly helpful, considering the Zerg can aim.

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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    "Look out boyz, dey's got Bomb Squigs!"

    Yeah, Orks have their own Banelings.
    In all seriousness, from what ive heard about them in not sure of the answer, would they even bother dodging if they knew? I mean, everything I have heard so far screams suicidally enjoying themselves in battle. So I could just see them running right for the baneling swarm. "Yo boyz! I bets I ken take four down wit me!"
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    In all seriousness, from what ive heard about them in not sure of the answer, would they even bother dodging if they knew? I mean, everything I have heard so far screams suicidally enjoying themselves in battle. So I could just see them running right for the baneling swarm. "Yo boyz! I bets I ken take four down wit me!"
    They'd at least make an effort to shoot them before they made contact, I think.. after all, it's fun to make a Baneling blow when you shoot it. It's not so fun to put your choppa in it and have it melt off half your body (well, for that individual ork/anybody who was too close to him. It's probably hilarious to everybody else.)

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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    They'd at least make an effort to shoot them before they made contact, I think.. after all, it's fun to make a Baneling blow when you shoot it. It's not so fun to put your choppa in it and have it melt off half your body (well, for that individual ork/anybody who was too close to him. It's probably hilarious to everybody else.)
    True, but their accuracy apparently sucks, and even terran marines cant stop a full swarm of banelings coming at them full tilt. They might get a few, but I bet there would be a nice path of melted ork goo right through the middle of the pack.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    True, but their accuracy apparently sucks, and even terran marines cant stop a full swarm of banelings coming at them full tilt. They might get a few, but I bet there would be a nice path of melted ork goo right through the middle of the pack.
    I think it depends on how many guns of what type the orks have. And if they have burnas with them, since they have a fairly long range and are pretty hard to miss with.
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Damn, this IS an evenly matched fight. No matter what idea we come up with for either side, there is always a clear and commonly used counter. Its not like say, darth vader versus voldemort, where we bring in all sorts of obscure stuff that exists in canon of all levels of accuracy and MIGHT be known and used by either side, even though we never see them doing so, its actual stuff that isnt a long shot, and is in fact likely how things will shape up.

    But even with the burnas things arent definite that banelings wont work. I mean, its a part of how the zerg operate, you may kill one, 10, or even 50 of the approaching enemy, it doesnt matter because the other 150 units are marching right over the top of their preceding fellows burnt corpses inching closer and closer with every moment, until they get you. It can be stopped, but it aint easy.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Note that if you're fighting such a horde, accuracy matters quite a bit less: sure, you miss your exact target, but you hit his buddy who's a bit to the left.
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    One question, though. If a baneling explodes, does it hurt the other banelings? Because then the orks' sheer volume of firepower might just do the trick.
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Quote Originally Posted by Forrestfire View Post
    One question, though. If a baneling explodes, does it hurt the other banelings? Because then the orks' sheer volume of firepower might just do the trick.
    It doesnt in game, because that would make banelings so far beyond worthless as to be a joke. They HAVE to come up in a swarm, and if popping one or two set off all the rest in an orgy of exploding acid, what would be the point? Also, being vulnerable to the juice that fills them would strike me as a design flaw. It would be as if blood touching us caused us to catch fire.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Ah ok. I was too lazy to research them more than a cursory readthrough on the wiki, so I wasn't sure if the acid was dangerous to them. I mean, we have strong HCL in our stomaches, but HCL still hurts us.
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Quote Originally Posted by Forrestfire View Post
    Ah ok. I was too lazy to research them more than a cursory readthrough on the wiki, so I wasn't sure if the acid was dangerous to them. I mean, we have strong HCL in our stomaches, but HCL still hurts us.
    Yeah, im not certain, but I think banelings are like giant balls of acid with a large enough brain to target something and roll towards it. You have a good point about the hcl in our bodies, but keep in mind that one of our main biological functions is NOT to explode alongside a dozen of our fellows and spray that hcl on everything in sight. It has been a long time since I saw banelings but im fairly sure they dont hurt each other by bursting. Like I said, that would just be extremely silly.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Banelings can also be burried and quickly unburried, essentially creating a living minefield. How good would you think everyday Ork detection equipment is?
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Quote Originally Posted by GolemsVoice View Post
    Banelings can also be burried and quickly unburried, essentially creating a living minefield. How good would you think everyday Ork detection equipment is?
    It depends on who the warboss is. Ghazghkull would probably have had his mechs loot auspex, (auspexes?), which would easily detect them.
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    1. Banelings:
    Orkz, depending on the klan, have Area Of Effect weaponz. Actually, LOTZ of AoE weaponz. A carpet of little firecrackers rolling across the field towards them will get popped via carpet-bombing style.
    Orkz have their own version of Banelings (Bomb Squigs). Orkz fight other orkz all the time. This means, Orkz know how to quickly recognize and then fight against this strat.

    2. Zerg human wave tactic looking to swarm the enemy line in melee:
    And this is a problem for the boyz, how?
    "Ey stop yer shootin! Dem bugz are comin to us!"
    Each Choppa Boy is the equivalent of a Space Marine in melee, except unarmoured but tuffer. And there's more of them.

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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    But even with the burnas things arent definite that banelings wont work. I mean, its a part of how the zerg operate, you may kill one, 10, or even 50 of the approaching enemy, it doesnt matter because the other 150 units are marching right over the top of their preceding fellows burnt corpses inching closer and closer with every moment, until they get you. It can be stopped, but it aint easy.
    Flamethrowers? You'd use Roaches, they're essentially fire-proof given that upgraded Hellions can do next to no damage to them. Even after being partly broiled they can burrow and recover in seconds. That or simply swarm them with Mutalisks.

    Quote Originally Posted by MLai View Post
    1. Banelings:
    Orkz, depending on the klan, have Area Of Effect weaponz. Actually, LOTZ of AoE weaponz. A carpet of little firecrackers rolling across the field towards them will get popped via carpet-bombing style.
    Orkz have their own version of Banelings (Bomb Squigs). Orkz fight other orkz all the time. This means, Orkz know how to quickly recognize and then fight against this strat.
    This would work, if Banshees are any indication. Although if they can't be used quickly and accurately you'll be bombing where the Zerg were. Where the Zerg will be is far closer than you'd want them to. Then there are more of 'em behind the bodies of the ones you've actually managed to kill, who are merely another wave in an endless stream of homocidal biomass rushing towards you. That's the Zerg's charm point. Banelings won't be kind enough to attack just from one angle or alone, they'd simply be the surprising end to an eventful day.

    2. Zerg human wave tactic looking to swarm the enemy line in melee:
    And this is a problem for the boyz, how?
    "Ey stop yer shootin! Dem bugz are comin to us!"
    Each Choppa Boy is the equivalent of a Space Marine in melee, except unarmoured but tuffer. And there's more of them.
    Which is why it would be mind grinder all around.

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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Quote Originally Posted by MLai View Post
    1. Banelings:
    Orkz, depending on the klan, have Area Of Effect weaponz. Actually, LOTZ of AoE weaponz. A carpet of little firecrackers rolling across the field towards them will get popped via carpet-bombing style.
    Orkz have their own version of Banelings (Bomb Squigs). Orkz fight other orkz all the time. This means, Orkz know how to quickly recognize and then fight against this strat.

    2. Zerg human wave tactic looking to swarm the enemy line in melee:
    And this is a problem for the boyz, how?
    "Ey stop yer shootin! Dem bugz are comin to us!"
    Each Choppa Boy is the equivalent of a Space Marine in melee, except unarmoured but tuffer. And there's more of them.
    Yeah... and zerglings are quite capable of tearing apart armored marines. Thats after taking a lot of bullets to the face as they swarm in to bury them under a wave of zerg. You seem to think that the zerg arent good at close combat or something. They are. They will tear you apart. If the orks were stupid enough to stop shooting because "da boogz are cumin ta us!" then they just gave up any hope of victory. Holding them back at a distance is the only thing that keeps the terrans from being slaughtered, and I dont think the orks would do much better.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Yeah... and zerglings are quite capable of tearing apart armored marines.
    He wasn't talking about Terran Marines, puny oomans in tin can armour.

    He was talking about Space Marines, eight foot tall supersoldiers in armour that can stand up to antitank weapons.

    Orks fight those Marines in close combat and have a reasonable chance of winning.

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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Yeah... and zerglings are quite capable of tearing apart armored marines. Thats after taking a lot of bullets to the face as they swarm in to bury them under a wave of zerg. You seem to think that the zerg arent good at close combat or something. They are. They will tear you apart. If the orks were stupid enough to stop shooting because "da boogz are cumin ta us!" then they just gave up any hope of victory. Holding them back at a distance is the only thing that keeps the terrans from being slaughtered, and I dont think the orks would do much better.
    Ork Melee units are capable of beating the Tyranid equivalent Hormagaunts in melee combat.


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    I don't see why they wouldn't be able to stand against the weaker zerg infantry.
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Are zerglings weaker than their tyranid cousin? As I recall, they're both essentially rip-and-tear dog-sized things. I was under the impression that the zerg v tyranid thing was mostly that tyranids operated on a bigger scale- There's more of them, and there's more big ones. But little guys vs little guys I can't see a difference just have having played both RTSes.

    Wartraks are the kind of thing I'm thinking of when I saw the Orks have this. Bombs (With knockdown!) for the swarm, missiles for the things that stand out from the swarm.
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Quote Originally Posted by shadow_archmagi View Post
    Are zerglings weaker than their tyranid cousin? As I recall, they're both essentially rip-and-tear dog-sized things. I was under the impression that the zerg v tyranid thing was mostly that tyranids operated on a bigger scale- There's more of them, and there's more big ones. But little guys vs little guys I can't see a difference just have having played both RTSes.

    Wartraks are the kind of thing I'm thinking of when I saw the Orks have this. Bombs (With knockdown!) for the swarm, missiles for the things that stand out from the swarm.
    The Tyranids cut through higher density material going by what Adamantium has been stated to resist as opposed to what Neosteel has been shown to resist.

    With Adamantium resisting things like Melta Guns, which present higher fire power than anything hand held in Starcraft.

    Also, I'd give it to a Carnifex over an Ultralisk any day. Given the things have actual intelligence.
    Last edited by Fan; 2012-09-29 at 10:35 AM.
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Genestealers, while roughly the same size as hormagaunts, are a lot better at penetrating armour (they have the Rending rule).

    Carnifexes are also a bit smaller than Ultralisks- one, Old One-Eye, is intelligent- but normal carnifexes aren't nearly as smart.
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    He wasn't talking about Terran Marines, puny oomans in tin can armour.

    He was talking about Space Marines, eight foot tall supersoldiers in armour that can stand up to antitank weapons.
    Actually regular 40k power armor has been known to be breached by medieval arrows, and anything resembling an actual antitank weapon (rocket launchers, melta guns, etc) will easily pulverize power armor and its wearer.

    Even in that 40k 3rd person shooter game ork rokkits will make short work of your plot-armored character if you stand in the open for more than a second.

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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Actually regular 40k power armor has been known to be breached by medieval arrows, and anything resembling an actual antitank weapon (rocket launchers, melta guns, etc) will easily pulverize power armor and its wearer.

    Even in that 40k 3rd person shooter game ork rokkits will make short work of your plot-armored character if you stand in the open for more than a second.
    Yeah..

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    Learchus sprinted forward, diving to the ground to gather the girl in his arms and rolling on top of her as the ornithopter's shells ripped towards her. He supported his weight on his elbows so as not to crush the girl and felt the powerful impacts hammer into his backplate. He offered a small prayer of thanks to his armour for standing firm against the traitorous fire.
    Quote Originally Posted by Horus Rising, pgs. 232-233
    Giant forks of lightning, savage and yellow-white phosphorescent, were searing down into the open space, explosively scorching the earth. Though each fork only existed for a nanosecond, they seemed solid and real, like fundamental, physical structures, like upturned, thorny trees. Three Astartes, including Lucius, were struck. Secure in their Mark IV plate, they shrugged off the massive, detonating impacts and laughed as aftershock electrical blooms crackled like garlands of blue wire around their armour for a few seconds.
    [...]
    The storm above grew still more ferocious. Five more men were struck. One of them, Ulzoras, was actually knocked off his feet. They saw fused, glassy craters in the ground where lighting had earthed with the force of penetrator missiles.
    God Tier John + Zillyhoo by Derjuin
    Plushrump ITP!



  28. - Top - End - #118
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Actually regular 40k power armor has been known to be breached by medieval arrows, and anything resembling an actual antitank weapon (rocket launchers, melta guns, etc) will easily pulverize power armor and its wearer.

    Even in that 40k 3rd person shooter game ork rokkits will make short work of your plot-armored character if you stand in the open for more than a second.

    Medieval Arrows? Well, I've no idea where and when such a thing happened, but far as I see it would be basically impossible in the Deathwatch RP system (short of extra-ordinary levels of luck and the direct blessing of the emperor or an equivalent open-ended-damage thingy) because they are primitive and that means armour counts double. They literally are incapable of beating the armour value.

    And the 3rd person shooter was pretty terrible in general, I'd say it's a poor source of anything resembling canon. (Though yes, far as I know anti-armour weaponry will, funnily enough, do bad things even to armoured troups.)
    Last edited by Tiki Snakes; 2012-09-29 at 12:15 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #119
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    Medieval Arrows? Well, I've no idea where and when such a thing happened, but far as I see it would be basically impossible in the Deathwatch RP system (short of extra-ordinary levels of luck and the direct blessing of the emperor or an equivalent open-ended-damage thingy) because they are primitive and that means armour counts double. They literally are incapable of beating the armour value.
    The Deatwatch RP is extremely biased towards the SM (aka the players). By those standards iconic 40K character like Ciaphas Cain never existed, because the moment Cain meets a chaos marine he's pulverized into pulp whitout any real chance going by said DW RP rules.

  30. - Top - End - #120
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    Default Re: Orks (40k) vs. Zerg (Starcraft)

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    The Deatwatch RP is extremely biased towards the SM (aka the players). By those standards iconic 40K character like Ciaphas Cain never existed, because the moment Cain meets a chaos marine he's pulverized into pulp whitout any real chance going by said DW RP rules.
    Unless you're arguing that he would be portrayed as a Dark Heresy Guardsman, pretty much no. He's going to be an inquisitor-levelish character, surely, and that would put him at a comparable points value to a marine, chaos or otherwise. With help and a bit of luck, he should be able to take on a chaos marine (just as he apparently did). I also doubt he was armed with primitive weapons when he did so.

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