LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax

[Lix Lorn]

Dunno, didn't really see it past the hair.

[noparlpf]

I think that's at least partly socialised. I know some straight women who have a hard time not looking at breasts. We're all told from a (n alarmingly!) young age that breasts are sexy and there for looking at. I do like to admire, I make sure I don't stare or talk down to the person.

Sigh! That must drive her mad!

Anything online not about her figure is about how she hates people only talking about her figure.

Yes, she played Yosafbridg! It's amazing what clothes can do to change the way someone's figure comes across. The same goes for Kat Dennings as Darcy Lewis in Thor.

Well, when you're not shoving your breasts up and together as much as you can, they do tend to be a little less prominent.

[KenderWizard]

She has a face?

Asta! Be good! Remember the way objectification is really ****?

[Astrella]

No, don't apologise - I got snappy because I interpreted your post as saying people shouldn't be doing stuff and I'm very tetchy at the moment because everything I'm doing to transition feels like it either needs other people's permission to happen or that I have to hide away because of other people's issues.
Obviously some of this is necessary - but it shouldn't be.

To expand on that train of thought:
Want to do stuff at home - can't because it'll freak out my mum.
Want to do stuff outside of home - can't because of societal pressure / danger of discrimination & violence
Have to carefully plan things at work before I can be who I am there
Have to get approval from various professionals and whatnot to be who I am
Need to constantly lie and mis-truth to people so as to avoid problems

so with that mindset I 9mis)interpreted your comment to be saying "we need to remind all the trans people how to transition because, hey, everyone is telling them how to live every other aspect of their life already so why not one more?"

The only trigger is that under my usually dry and sarcastic (but genreally lighthearted) exterior I'm a smouldering volcano of grim rage and hate at the world (and under that is the real me, who just want to be able to live without asking for permission first).
I hate that this is so damn unfair. I was doing raelly well and then this comes up and compeltely ****s my life over. I'm stressed. I'm scared. I worry about getting attacked when I've transitioned. I feel like I'm losing the girl I love and my heart is breaking. My plans for my future are gone because all my savings are going out the window. Not that it matters because the plan to buy a house with my girl are over. Sometimes I'm so happy that I know what's been wrong with me for my whole life (my mum said she's nown I've had a sadness in me since I was 4or 5).
Sometimes I wish I'd never known so I wouldn't have lost what happiness I had.

*offers so many hugs*
It's okay to be scared and worried and you shouldn't have to feel like you have to keep up a mask of being okay. I know we feel like we're imposing on other people and worry about them, but really don't forget yourself. This is a big thing for you, and you can't go neglecting letting it all out and I really hope you have people you can honestly vent too. (If you ever want to talk; just pm me and we can figure something out. You need places where you can vent without having to worry.)

And, well, mrrr, things might be grim right now, but that doesn't mean not knowing it wouldn't have had it's negative effects over time anyway? :<

My heart goes out to you. I think you're a wonderful and delightful person and you really don't deserve all the crap you're going through. *all of the hugs*

Feeling a bit better now. I went over to see a friend for hugs, cookies, and long conversation. She pointed out something that I feel a bit silly for not realising myself - just because someone looks at me and ticks the mental box on my record saying "trans", doesn't mean they don't file me under "female" anyway.

That's what I was trying to say earlier, but I'm not good at teh words. I'm glad you're feeling better.

[Selpharia]

No, don't apologise - I got snappy because I interpreted your post as saying people shouldn't be doing stuff and I'm very tetchy at the moment because everything I'm doing to transition feels like it either needs other people's permission to happen or that I have to hide away because of other people's issues.
Obviously some of this is necessary - but it shouldn't be.

To expand on that train of thought:
Want to do stuff at home - can't because it'll freak out my mum.
Want to do stuff outside of home - can't because of societal pressure / danger of discrimination & violence
Have to carefully plan things at work before I can be who I am there
Have to get approval from various professionals and whatnot to be who I am
Need to constantly lie and mis-truth to people so as to avoid problems

so with that mindset I 9mis)interpreted your comment to be saying "we need to remind all the trans people how to transition because, hey, everyone is telling them how to live every other aspect of their life already so why not one more?"

The only trigger is that under my usually dry and sarcastic (but genreally lighthearted) exterior I'm a smouldering volcano of grim rage and hate at the world (and under that is the real me, who just want to be able to live without asking for permission first).
I hate that this is so damn unfair. I was doing raelly well and then this comes up and compeltely ****s my life over. I'm stressed. I'm scared. I worry about getting attacked when I've transitioned. I feel like I'm losing the girl I love and my heart is breaking. My plans for my future are gone because all my savings are going out the window. Not that it matters because the plan to buy a house with my girl are over. Sometimes I'm so happy that I know what's been wrong with me for my whole life (my mum said she's nown I've had a sadness in me since I was 4or 5).
Sometimes I wish I'd never known so I wouldn't have lost what happiness I had.

It feels really vapid to type *hugs* and act like that's helping, but I really want to help you somehow and I don't know how to do it otherwise. I feel like it's pointless for me to pretend to know exactly what you're going through and offer advice, so I won't. I just hope things get better for you, that you can find some space to be you. Looking at your pictures though, I think you're much too hard on yourself; what I've seen of your figure makes me jealous (and those cute tetris pants) I personally never put much stock in that whole super-petite thing anyway.

My PM box is open as well, though the only part I feel really comfortable saying I'm familiar with is that sense of a seething, boiling rage between the real you and the world. I really wish I could help more

EDIT: and I apparently just stole Phoenix's post. Oh, well, hers was well written enough for its content to be repeated again.

~Laura

[Jeff the Green]

No, don't apologise - I got snappy because I interpreted your post as saying people shouldn't be doing stuff and I'm very tetchy at the moment because everything I'm doing to transition feels like it either needs other people's permission to happen or that I have to hide away because of other people's issues.
Obviously some of this is necessary - but it shouldn't be.

To expand on that train of thought:
Want to do stuff at home - can't because it'll freak out my mum.
Want to do stuff outside of home - can't because of societal pressure / danger of discrimination & violence
Have to carefully plan things at work before I can be who I am there
Have to get approval from various professionals and whatnot to be who I am
Need to constantly lie and mis-truth to people so as to avoid problems

so with that mindset I 9mis)interpreted your comment to be saying "we need to remind all the trans people how to transition because, hey, everyone is telling them how to live every other aspect of their life already so why not one more?"

The only trigger is that under my usually dry and sarcastic (but genreally lighthearted) exterior I'm a smouldering volcano of grim rage and hate at the world (and under that is the real me, who just want to be able to live without asking for permission first).
I hate that this is so damn unfair. I was doing raelly well and then this comes up and compeltely ****s my life over. I'm stressed. I'm scared. I worry about getting attacked when I've transitioned. I feel like I'm losing the girl I love and my heart is breaking. My plans for my future are gone because all my savings are going out the window. Not that it matters because the plan to buy a house with my girl are over. Sometimes I'm so happy that I know what's been wrong with me for my whole life (my mum said she's nown I've had a sadness in me since I was 4or 5).
Sometimes I wish I'd never known so I wouldn't have lost what happiness I had.

Oh, frack. This made me literally (as in literally literally, not figuratively literally) tear up.

I can't say "it gets better" from personal knowledge, though I can tell you from hearsay and scientific knowledge it can. I can't even try to sympathize either, since I haven't experienced anything near to what you're going through. The only thing I can say is a repeat of my reaction to all the other straight cis geeks who made IGBProject videos: "It gets better because we give a damn." I can't offer you much, not even advice, but I do promise to do whatever I can to change this stupid ****ing culture of ours and the minds of the stupid ****ing bigots that are making your life so hard right now. (And hugs, and whatever psychic resonance/positive energy/placebo effect that comes of me thinking about you and wishing you luck and strength.)

[Astrella]

So, a friend of mine has been having some conflicting feelings. They've realized that a good amount of their attraction towards women isn't sexual, but rather envious. And it's confusing to them. They say they don't like being a guy in particular, but it's more of a thing they're used to. They hate growing up like this and then looking at a girl and going "oh that must be nice, living like that." It's driving them nuts though and they don't know what to do and wanted to get some advice from the thread.

[Selpharia]

Well, having had that realization myself, I recommend he not do what I did and bottle it up for ten years, but instead go talk to somebody with experience and expertise who might be able to help him figure what's going on, since he can't seem to arrive at a solution that satisfies him by himself. I hope your friend can figure things out.

~Laura

[bluewind95]

Heliomance: Is it really bad that I see you as a werewoman?

[Zorg]

Thanks everyone for the kind words.

[SiuiS]

With how endemic it is to the thread to have people injuring themselves from shaving with no knowledge base, I have to wonder whether a disclaimer to remind people not to jump in head first into body modification without first making sure they've learned enough to do it safely is in order.

The standard response is "I'm busy and have a lot of threads to go through, so I just skim." I believe last time was in thread 21, and before that a nod in thread 18. And for some people, that's reasonably insiders far enough on the past not to go in for.

Also, from experience, do you know how hard it is to find help for this ****? I do. The usual responses for asking about shaving are "just shave, you'll be fine" and "look online". Except the Internet is the same place that tells you you can't get pregnant your first time or if you're on top because gravity. It's all about perpetuating homogenous data. Did you know thick hair needs to be treated differently than thin hair? That curly hair, wavy hair, straight hair and severely curly hair all need to be cut differently? That people don't respond well to having to fill out a hair survey when asking for 'simple' advice? The information isn't really out there. It doesn't cost you anything to perpetuate what you know, but saying "geeze, go look for it online" does cost some hassle. Remember, this thread is online. And it's easier to ask people than read an index. I can trust people.

That came out more forceful than intended >.>

What kind of thing were you hoping for?

Generically, it was for the sake of the joke. But I'm always interested in what people get from avatars. In this case, it's a creature which lives through mimicry based on a character who strives for femininity and beauty. That's got to come off as a little Freudian, if not intentional.

Although my thoughts were "wow that's gorgeous, I want that as an avatar." and nothin more. >_<

...dammit. I don't think I pass as well as I thought I did. I'm starting to get the impression that everyone I've talked to for any length of time has worked out I'm a guy. Sure, they're fine with it - I've not had any trouble from it - but it's kinda depressing.

Body language? It's a subtle thing really, but hard to shake. I've been practicing, and people just assume I'm a gay man, or making fun of gay men. Which I suppose means it's working <_<

She'd be hot if it weren't for the holes. xD

That almost hue my feelings! And then I remember I don't look like that. ^_^

I wouldn't be able to help myself. She is gorgeous.......of course I am a sucker for a redhead

Curious enough for a google search. Wow. I kept looking at her breasts not because breasts but because of the size disparity. It's like the eye naturally seeking the foreground. I must say, it's a curious feeling being actually unable not to look at someone's breasts. Academically chagrinned, I am.

(tried to dye her hair red last week)

Oh? Story?

Feeling a bit better now. I went over to see a friend for hugs, cookies, and long conversation. She pointed out something that I feel a bit silly for not realising myself - just because someone looks at me and ticks the mental box on my record saying "trans", doesn't mean they don't file me under "female" anyway.

Yes! There was actually one of those Natalie blogs about that that made sense to me. First impressions; a trans girl is still filed under "girl". For most people it's easier than dealing with androgyny.

Oh! Androgyny. That reminds me. There was this totally gorgeous Asian guy in Starbucks a few days back I was trying not to check out. She had a really pretty voice, and some tasteful jewelry. I still mentally don't have a gender file for her, even after finding out my original guess of male was incorrect.

*looks up picture of Christina Hendricks*

...hmm, pretty face. Chest falls firmly under my "anything more than a handful is a waste" policy, but that's hardly her fault.

...wait, she played Saffron? I don't remember Saffron being so spectacularly endowed.

Honestly? She would be fun to sleep on. It's comforting more than sexy. For sexy, aye, that's a good policy. I'm tickled to hear someone else say it, too~

So, a friend of mine has been having some conflicting feelings. They've realized that a good amount of their attraction towards women isn't sexual, but rather envious. And it's confusing to them. They say they don't like being a guy in particular, but it's more of a thing they're used to. They hate growing up like this and then looking at a girl and going "oh that must be nice, living like that." It's driving them nuts though and they don't know what to do and wanted to get some advice from the thread.

Well, I ended up here, and coming out as a woman (though it's still hard to say, even here). Who knows, though? My best advice would be relax, sit back, enjoy the ride (academically, this sort of puzzle is the most fun!) and above all don't judge yourself. Be who and what you want, even if you can't decide what that is, or can't stay consistent. Life is change, after all.

[Asta Kask]

Asta! Be good! Remember the way objectification is really s**t?

*shuffles feet*

Yes, missy.

[Absol197]

So, a friend of mine has been having some conflicting feelings. They've realized that a good amount of their attraction towards women isn't sexual, but rather envious. And it's confusing to them. They say they don't like being a guy in particular, but it's more of a thing they're used to. They hate growing up like this and then looking at a girl and going "oh that must be nice, living like that." It's driving them nuts though and they don't know what to do and wanted to get some advice from the thread.

That sounds a lot like me from "the Before Time," actually. The only advice I would give is this: while he's the only one who can make the decision about what this all means, he is not required to make that decision alone. Getting some help and talking to someone is incredibly helpful with putting things into perspective.

I wish him all the best of luck!

Heliomance: Is it really bad that I see you as a werewoman?

If by, "bad," you mean, "AWESOME!"*
*DISCLAIMER: I am not Heliomance, and any statements made in this post should not be assumed to speak for her. But still, it's AWESOME!

On another, more dismal note:

Spoiler

Show

My parents have told me something incredibly depressing:

Apparently, my step-dad inherited a lot of money from his grandfather when he died, thirty some years ago. Like, millions. With an "s". And he's planning on putting the majority of it in a trust for me and my sister. The reason he's only planning this, though, is that his mom, my grandmother, thought that he and his brothers and sisters wouldn't be responsible enough with it, so she's not giving them their inheritance until she dies. She's also incredibly conservative in her views, and my parents think that if she finds out about me being transgender, she'll either drastically cut, or not give my dad his inheritance.

This sucks hardcore, because that gives me only three options:

1. I can wait to transition until she dies - which could be up to ten or even twenty years (she's 82, I think)!

2. I can choose not to hide anything from anyone, like I want, and potentially cost my dad and my sister (not to mention myself) a ton of money that could really help us, and might be able to help with my transition;

3. I can proceed cautiously, but once the physical changes get noticeable, never be able to join in any family gathering in which that grandma is participating. Which is basically all of them. Thanksgivings, Labor Days, 4th of Julys, a few Christmases (I usually spend those with my real dad and his family), graduations, birthdays, other random gatherings - I wouldn't get to go to any of them. For the same time frame mentioned above.

I have no idea what to do. The part that makes it so difficult is that I'm not playing with my money; if I was, I'd be willing to take the chance on option 2, hoping I could convince her. But instead, I'm playing with my dad's and my sister's money, and I have no right to do that to them.

~Phoenix~

[Heliomance]

Re: Werewoman, that's kinda amusing ^_^
Wait, would that qualify me to join Kenderwoman and Queerkitty in the Heroes of GitP?

Aww, Phee. All of the hugs.

I recommend option 3, probably, but ultimately you're the only one that can make the decision.

[Astrella]

Don't forget that you don't know how she'd react. Some gentle probing of the subject is probably something you should do before you start making big decisions like postponing your transition.

I'm seconding Helio though; in the worst case you could do stuff like use a binder or something and present male, which would suck, but not nearly as much as having to delay transitioning. :s

[noparlpf]

Heliomance: Is it really bad that I see you as a werewoman?

I chuckled. That was cute.

Also, from experience, do you know how hard it is to find help for this ****? I do. The usual responses for asking about shaving are "just shave, you'll be fine" and "look online". Except the Internet is the same place that tells you you can't get pregnant your first time or if you're on top because gravity. It's all about perpetuating homogenous data. Did you know thick hair needs to be treated differently than thin hair? That curly hair, wavy hair, straight hair and severely curly hair all need to be cut differently? That people don't respond well to having to fill out a hair survey when asking for 'simple' advice? The information isn't really out there. It doesn't cost you anything to perpetuate what you know, but saying "geeze, go look for it online" does cost some hassle. Remember, this thread is online. And it's easier to ask people than read an index. I can trust people.

That came out more forceful than intended >.>

The way I heard it was you can't get pregnant if you do it standing up. Obviously if you're not in a bed you won't get pregnant.

On another, more dismal note:

Spoiler

Show

My parents have told me something incredibly depressing:

Apparently, my step-dad inherited a lot of money from his grandfather when he died, thirty some years ago. Like, millions. With an "s". And he's planning on putting the majority of it in a trust for me and my sister. The reason he's only planning this, though, is that his mom, my grandmother, thought that he and his brothers and sisters wouldn't be responsible enough with it, so she's not giving them their inheritance until she dies. She's also incredibly conservative in her views, and my parents think that if she finds out about me being transgender, she'll either drastically cut, or not give my dad his inheritance.

This sucks hardcore, because that gives me only three options:

1. I can wait to transition until she dies - which could be up to ten or even twenty years (she's 82, I think)!

2. I can choose not to hide anything from anyone, like I want, and potentially cost my dad and my sister (not to mention myself) a ton of money that could really help us, and might be able to help with my transition;

3. I can proceed cautiously, but once the physical changes get noticeable, never be able to join in any family gathering in which that grandma is participating. Which is basically all of them. Thanksgivings, Labor Days, 4th of Julys, a few Christmases (I usually spend those with my real dad and his family), graduations, birthdays, other random gatherings - I wouldn't get to go to any of them. For the same time frame mentioned above.

I have no idea what to do...

~Phoenix~

Geez, that's rough. I think option #3 is the best choice.

[Absol197]

Re: Werewoman, that's kinda amusing ^_^
Wait, would that qualify me to join Kenderwoman and Queerkitty in the Heroes of GitP?

Aww, Phee. All of the hugs.

I recommend option 3, probably, but ultimately you're the only one that can make the decision.

Hey, how does one join this amazing league of super-people? Is there an application process?

Yeah, option three is looking like the best to me, but it still really sucks. I love my family. Thanksgiving is usually my favorite day of the year, because I get to see everybody, catch up, laugh, and have great food. And not being able to go to my sister's graduation? Plus, I'd need to keep the secret from other family members, who would either be too gabby, or who would also not completely approve and might tell my grandma. So I go from secrets to more secrets. The exact opposite of what I had hoped to achieve this week.

Don't forget that you don't know how she'd react. Some gentle probing of the subject is probably something you should do before you start making big decisions like postponing your transition.

I'm seconding Helio though; in the worst case you could do stuff like use a binder or something and present male, which would suck, but not nearly as much as having to delay transitioning. :s

Delaying transition was actually never a thought in my mind - I only put it up there because it is technically an option. Although, I suppose there's another option I didn't list, but it's so horrible and wrong that I'm not even going to mention it.

I think that testing the waters might be a good idea. We'd have to make sure not to come on too strong, but I'll talk to my parents about it. Maybe we can do it, and she'll surprise us. That'd be nice.

Thanks, Lena!

~Phoenix~

[supernerd]

I might still not be fully educated on this, but definitely start your transition because for a good while you can look like a male with the proper garments. Would you rather not like yourself for a handful of days out of the year, or hate your body for years to come? You might want to hold off a few of the major surgeries, but they generally don't affect appearance enough to make it impossible to be seen as your birth sex.

[Irish Musician]

@Phoenix - Wow, my heart literally dropped when I read those options you had in front of you. I mean, it is a lose/lose/lose situation, unfortunately, and those are never fun situations of which to be a part. My advise is this, listen to your heart and your gut. If it means going into Boy-mode in front of your grandmother, then that really sucks, but if you think it is the best option, of the list of crappy options, I say go for it.

HOWEVER, I personally would go with option 3 because while you don't want to "play with their money", you also don't want to totally conceal who you are inside, because otherwise you will burst trying to hold all that female in there But seriously, if you can't be who you know you are, you will also be miserable. I think 3 is the best of the worst. But I totally agree with Astrella that maybe some cautious, probing questions might be in order next time you see your grandmother. Hope any of this helps, and that things get better.......or at least easier. Sending Love and Hugs.

~Matthew~

[Kindablue]

They've probably been up for weeks now, but I just noticed that my school's fine arts department has little posters for a big drag show on almost every bulletin board. It's a pretty conservative school, and I'm a little shocked that I've never even heard anyone making jokes about it.

Honestly? She would be fun to sleep on. It's comforting more than sexy. For sexy, aye, that's a good policy. I'm tickled to hear someone else say it, too~

I got a very motherly vibe off that photo, like one of those clay figures of the Sumerian fertility goddess.

[Asta Kask]

Yeah, option three is looking like the best to me, but it still really sucks. I love my family. Thanksgiving is usually my favorite day of the year, because I get to see everybody, catch up, laugh, and have great food. And not being able to go to my sister's graduation? Plus, I'd need to keep the secret from other family members, who would either be too gabby, or who would also not completely approve and might tell my grandma. So I go from secrets to more secrets. The exact opposite of what I had hoped to achieve this week.

Unless you go all Christina Hendricks you'll probably be able to bind. Go for the androgynous look, have everyone refer to you by your BoyName (yeah, I know, it sucks). It will be uncomfortable, yes. But if you can make it I think it's worth it. Anyone who says money doesn't matter has never been without it.

[Serpentine]

Absol: would scoping your grandmother out before you make your decision be an option? Maybe someone mentions a new medical break-through in the news to her, and see how she reacts? I mean... well, it's not really a good example at all because she's actually pretty progressive, but my mother has some issues with homosexuality for religious reasons (and bisexuality for more baseless reasons, at least last time it came up), yet she has no problem with transexuality at all because she sees it from the medical point of view. Like I said, she's probably not a good example because she's certainly not the sort of person who would cut someone off for being or doing the wrong thing, but sometimes people can be... patchy in their prejudices. Might be worth getting an idea of just what her views are on the subject before you make a potentially heartbreaking life decision.

[Socratov]

@Phoenix: I agree wit Serp here, try to probe her thoughts on the subject, as well as her reaction and work from there.

Btw guys, i love the way this thread is 1 part serious talk and 1 part craziness featuring lixie (for the majority of encounters at least)

[noparlpf]

Don't remember if I mentioned it, but it's now possible to make viable egg cells out of skin cells, at least in mice.

[Lentrax]

Hey Pheonix. Yeah that is one real tough situation, but I am going to have to agree with the others and say option 3. And I would definately be doing some gentle questioning to she what reactions would be before really doing anything.

I will not say don't be who you are, but I really don't have anything else to say. I'm not sure there is anything anyone could say.

[Zorg]

I'd go with #3. You're young and have your parents' support. Would you regret leaving transitioning more than missing a few family functions or going incognito for the public ones?
And besides, she might be ok with it when all is said and done.

[Lix Lorn]

Oh? Story?

Not much story. Used dye. it wasn't as colourful as I hoped, so it's not that noticeable. There is a pic in the you thread.

@Phoenix: I agree wit Serp here, try to probe her thoughts on the subject, as well as her reaction and work from there.

Yeah, that. >_< Good luck.

Btw guys, i love the way this thread is 1 part serious talk and 1 part craziness featuring lixie (for the majority of encounters at least)

...I am slightly chagrined that I can in no way deny this. DXDD

[KenderWizard]

*shuffles feet*

Yes, missy.

Re: Werewoman, that's kinda amusing ^_^
Wait, would that qualify me to join Kenderwoman and Queerkitty in the Heroes of GitP?

Definitely! There are loads of possibilities there, you could be a usually-mild-mannered stealth superhero.

Also, ((hugs)) for Phoenix and anyone else who needs them.

[gunnar11]

Ok, so I think I am correct to say we're all drama-queens here (including me) so I'll just ask this out loud.
And please don't answer with: "you just have to ask" or "there's no way of knowing that"

The story:
There's a classmate I really... fancy. I don't know if he's gay or bi or (the most likely) straight. So I've tried to perceive a bit, by talking more to him, we have a lot in common, and trying to do things together (the first thing we're actually going to do is play Pool on Tuesday, with other people). My 'gaydar', though is the most broken thing about me, so I really have no other way than to ask:
Are there signs to read that someone is gay/interested in you?

Spoiler

Show

Again, I'm going to die forever alone if the only answer possible is:
if the person smiles more often to you, says hi when passing by, etc
(I don't count hi's and smiles)

Thank you very much!

here's pictures of kittens:

[Irish Musician]

@gunnar - Well, does he seem flirty with you? Has he had girlfriends in the past that he broke up with because he wasn't "feeling it"? Does he find reasons to touch you, or be close to you?