LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax

[golentan]

There really isn't a guaranteed way. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is. Screw your courage to the sticking point and ask. I know you said you didn't want that as an answer, but that's what the answer *is.*

[Irish Musician]

There really isn't a guaranteed way. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is. Screw your courage to the sticking point and ask. I know you said you didn't want that as an answer, but that's what the answer *is.*

Yeah, I was trying to give some other options to the poor chap. But goletan is right, there is only one sure-fire way to know......and that is to ask. Only 100% positive way to know. The questions I asked are merely signs that maybe, possibly he is.....but goletan's way is the only way that will get you a 100% answer.

[Lix Lorn]

Yeah, I was trying to give some other options to the poor chap. But goletan is right, there is only one sure-fire way to know......and that is to ask. Only 100% positive way to know. The questions I asked are merely signs that maybe, possibly he is.....but goletan's way is the only way that will get you a 100% answer.

I wouldn't call that one 100% either, but it's pretty close. >_>

[noparlpf]

Ok, so I think I am correct to say we're all drama-queens here (including me) so I'll just ask this out loud.
And please don't answer with: "you just have to ask" or "there's no way of knowing that"

The story:
There's a classmate I really... fancy. I don't know if he's gay or bi or (the most likely) straight. So I've tried to perceive a bit, by talking more to him, we have a lot in common, and trying to do things together (the first thing we're actually going to do is play Pool on Tuesday, with other people). My 'gaydar', though is the most broken thing about me, so I really have no other way than to ask:
Are there signs to read that someone is gay/interested in you?

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Again, I'm going to die forever alone if the only answer possible is:
if the person smiles more often to you, says hi when passing by, etc
(I don't count hi's and smiles)

Thank you very much!

here's pictures of kittens:

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You could also try the Relationships Woes and Advice thread.
My suggestion would be to start talking about girls. See how that goes. Little more subtle than asking straight out.

[gunnar11]

@gunnar - Well, does he seem flirty with you? Has he had girlfriends in the past that he broke up with because he wasn't "feeling it"? Does he find reasons to touch you, or be close to you?

Not flirty, more friendly
He hasn't had girlfriends in the past
He does find reasons to touch me, not necessarily be close to me.

These things always have an "I wish" factor, mind that

There really isn't a guaranteed way. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is. Screw your courage to the sticking point and ask. I know you said you didn't want that as an answer, but that's what the answer *is.*

I know... I just hope...
This world sure is a difficult place

You could also try the Relationships Woes and Advice thread.
My suggestion would be to start talking about girls. See how that goes. Little more subtle than asking straight out.

Thanks for the advice, and:
WHAT? THERE'S A RELATIONSHIPS WOES AND ADVICE THREAD?
Sorry for wasting your time then! *runs off*

[Absol197]

Thanks for all of your support, guys! You're all the best! *hugs whole thread!*

I think option #3 is the one I'm going to take. I'll suggest to my parents that we try and scope out her feelings about trans people, to see if I don't have to eventually completely alienate myself from my own family.

[SiuiS]

On another, more dismal note:

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My parents have told me something incredibly depressing:

Apparently, my step-dad inherited a lot of money from his grandfather when he died, thirty some years ago. Like, millions. With an "s". And he's planning on putting the majority of it in a trust for me and my sister. The reason he's only planning this, though, is that his mom, my grandmother, thought that he and his brothers and sisters wouldn't be responsible enough with it, so she's not giving them their inheritance until she dies. She's also incredibly conservative in her views, and my parents think that if she finds out about me being transgender, she'll either drastically cut, or not give my dad his inheritance.

This sucks hardcore, because that gives me only three options:

1. I can wait to transition until she dies - which could be up to ten or even twenty years (she's 82, I think)!

2. I can choose not to hide anything from anyone, like I want, and potentially cost my dad and my sister (not to mention myself) a ton of money that could really help us, and might be able to help with my transition;

3. I can proceed cautiously, but once the physical changes get noticeable, never be able to join in any family gathering in which that grandma is participating. Which is basically all of them. Thanksgivings, Labor Days, 4th of Julys, a few Christmases (I usually spend those with my real dad and his family), graduations, birthdays, other random gatherings - I wouldn't get to go to any of them. For the same time frame mentioned above.

I have no idea what to do. The part that makes it so difficult is that I'm not playing with my money; if I was, I'd be willing to take the chance on option 2, hoping I could convince her. But instead, I'm playing with my dad's and my sister's money, and I have no right to do that to them.

~Phoenix~

Stars and Fire.
I'd say, no matter what, do it. Worst case scenario, someone would be dangling potential for future transition in front of you, in exchange for guaranteed transition now. And that's terrible. And a common tactic; many jobs require ago many hours per quarter before giving you benefits, use the benefits to lure you to the job and then threaten to deny you unless you comply with extra work. This sounds similar to my black, hole-filled cynic's heart.

My shiny red, blazing idealist heart says we should find a way to get you a replacement holiday for all those holidays! Except I can't afford to fly out to wherever more than once a year, and if my filly doesn't get to go to Disney world this year she will kill me. As I have enough knives and such lying around... Laying around? To worry about it.

They've probably been up for weeks now, but I just noticed that my school's fine arts department has little posters for a big drag show on almost every bulletin board. It's a pretty conservative school, and I'm a little shocked that I've never even heard anyone making jokes about it.

that's pretty cool, although it cynically answers itself. Mate no on else noticed then either?

I got a very motherly vibe off that photo, like one of those clay figures of the Sumerian fertility goddess.

Sort of. I looked at a lot of pictures, and yes, that's what it is. My brain just doesn't register that she has a head.

Ok, so I think I am correct to say we're all drama-queens here (including me) so I'll just ask this out loud.
And please don't answer with: "you just have to ask" or "there's no way of knowing that"

The story:
There's a classmate I really... fancy. I don't know if he's gay or bi or (the most likely) straight. So I've tried to perceive a bit, by talking more to him, we have a lot in common, and trying to do things together (the first thing we're actually going to do is play Pool on Tuesday, with other people). My 'gaydar', though is the most broken thing about me, so I really have no other way than to ask:
Are there signs to read that someone is gay/interested in you?

Spoiler

Show

Again, I'm going to die forever alone if the only answer possible is:
if the person smiles more often to you, says hi when passing by, etc
(I don't count hi's and smiles)

Thank you very much!

here's pictures of kittens:

that picture is awesome.

Talk about past relationships, maybe conquests (though that's usually a cue to lose interest). If he plays coy then thee is an interesting story there. And it segues into sexuality of you play your cards right.

[Arachu]

*Gathers three quotes that she didn't have particularly long responses to; decides to wait*

*Goes to play Minecraft for what felt like five minutes*

*Comes back a day or two later to find she's way behind; decides to split responses in two to keep them easier to keep up with*

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*Hugs to Zorg, Phoenix, Lentrax, Laura and anyone she left out in her rush* I was pretty much raised to be horrified at the thought of having kids / anyone ever being pregnant for any length of time... The remnants of that don't play very well with the maternal instinct I recently realized I actually have. Also the lack of a uterus I never realized I'd rather have doesn't help. >.>

Here I am. How are you meant to see if i am worthy of the almighty Mynxae. LOL

*Welcomeglomps~*

I just had a fantastic night out to the local gay club with LGBTsoc. Great fun. Got clocked a couple of times, sadly, but gay club, so no-one gave a damn. I actually got asked by one guy how long I'd been on hormones! Proper pronouns used all round, a really friendly atmosphere, a bit of judicious flirting, and a respectable quantity of alcohol all combined to make a really good time ^_^

Made a few new friends, too, though sadly nothing more :P

Awesome~

So, it's national coming out day. And I was going to come out to my school's GSA yesterday, but... we were talking about our coming out stories ( I haven't yet) and every time I opened my mouth to begin my story, other people had already begun talking. I think I'm too shy for my own good...

*Hugs!*

Well, there's always today! Go get 'em! You can do it! No time like the present! *insert whatever pithy motivational phrase you would find most effective*!

On that note, I never changed my "interested in" on Facebook after coming out to my friends. I might take the opportunity to do that today given the special occasion, but then again I really don't want to deal with the ensuing ****storm from the extended family right now. Hmm. Will have to think on that a bit more.

--------------------

Update on yesterday's situation:

My manager filed his complaint about the nurse, hasn't heard anything back yet. Probably won't for a bit, if at all.

Lunch was...unpleasant, but not as bad as I expected. Most of the people who'd said stuff in the past apologized and said they didn't mean it and wouldn't have said anything if they'd known there was "a gay" in the room, which was a pleasant surprise--I didn't bother to point out that they shouldn't have said any of that anyway because, y'know, common decency...but hey, baby steps. There were, however, two of them (the girl I mentioned before and one other) who decided to turn it into a religious/moral debate, and we had a small audience as I basically played Whack-a-Mole with their arguments for an hour or so.

I've had plenty of practice with that sort of debate () and it seemed like they didn't, so it went well. Having most of the people around be on my side for once was a very nice change of pace (yay California!), and while I doubt I changed their minds at all we're at least back on exchanging-idle-chitchat terms again. So, yay, crisis mostly averted unless the re-org that's going on gets one of them shuffled onto my team or vice versa, but that's down the line and not something to worry about right now.

*So many hugs* At least most of them are trying to be supportive~

Okay, I'm actually back now!

Yay~ ^_^

So here's how things went yesterday, for those of you who are interested:

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The drive up went pretty well. We steered the conversation away from what was going to happen, so we didn't get that awkward pre-meeting stuff (I'm not sure what that would be like, but I'm sure it exists ). We did talk about politics, because that's one of my mom's favorite topics, and it's relevent in the States, with our election coming up.

We got to Boulder much earlier than we needed to, so I directed us to a little local coffee shop that I like.

Then, the actual meeting. At first, it looked like I was going to mess up. I was so scared and nervous. It took probably five minutes of me staring at the letter I had written, looking like an idiot, before I realized that that wasn't how I wanted to remember that moment, and that I wanted to say it myself. I blocked out as much as I could of my surroundings, and barreled through my letter (slowlyy enough to be understood, of course).

At first, at least with my mom, it looked like it was going to be a disaster. She kept saying that she could handle gay, but not this. My therapist really helped out, though, and I was able to get my brain back in gear and give some explainations.

My mom was really quiet during the car ride home, but by the end, she had calmed down, and explained that what she was most worried about was my job, and my being safe in a world that is, frankly, still a very scary place.

She still doesn't quite understand everything (when she asked about why I had been down on Sunday, and I explained it was about all the people I interact with not seeing me the way I want to be seen, she asked, "Why does that matter?"), but she at least seems like she's accepted it. She was happy last night, at least .

We'll see how it goes, but I have hope!

Also, I got to leave my door open for the first time in a while last night, so I got a visit from the black kitty fairy! He hogs the bed something fierce, but I don't really mind.

~Phoenix~

*Hugs*

And since you've been a good girl

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Now with bonus $3 shoes! Need to get me some yellow chucks or the boot style ones ('or' she says, knowing she'll get both...)

*Is now jealous for several reasons* @.@


~Bianca

[Heliomance]

I love your new avatar, Phee. It's gorgeous.

[Kindablue]

that's pretty cool, although it cynically answers itself. Mate no on else noticed then either?

I noticed it because I was talking with someone and he stopped to read it, so their campaign reached at least the two of us. I can't believe I didn't say bust. I guess busts don't have busts most of the time, though, and I think that's another school of sculpting that probably didn't exist in ancient Sumer anyway.

I love your new avatar, Phee. It's gorgeous.

It is, yeah.

[noparlpf]

I noticed it because I was talking with someone and he stopped to read it, so their campaign reached at least the two of us. I can't believe I didn't say bust. I guess busts don't have busts most of the time, though, and I think that's another school of sculpting that probably didn't exist in ancient Sumer anyway.

It is, yeah.

Heh. Puns. That would have been excellent.

[Lady Tialait]

I saw this video and thought maybe you guys would be interested. I know I would pass it around to explain the lack of boxes in the world....sad day for box enthusiast.

[noparlpf]

Just saw a pretty good video, by a man, about misogyny and whatnot.

[Irish Musician]

I love your new avatar, Phee. It's gorgeous.

Very Much agree. Also, love the idea behind the Phoenix, not only in name but in what it means to you. Your old self "dying" and you being born as a new person from your old self, or rather the person you were meant to be. Simply Beautiful.

[Astrella]

Thanks for the advice, and:
WHAT? THERE'S A RELATIONSHIPS WOES AND ADVICE THREAD?
Sorry for wasting your time then! *runs off*

You don't have to run! You can perfectly fine ask questions here~

Does he know you're attracted to men? If he doesn't yet it might be a good idea to mention it (casually).

Thanks for all of your support, guys! You're all the best! *hugs whole thread!*

I think option #3 is the one I'm going to take. I'll suggest to my parents that we try and scope out her feelings about trans people, to see if I don't have to eventually completely alienate myself from my own family.

I hope it all works out!

Also so many sorries that I didn't get round to working on your avatar; but I've been really bad about keeping up with my work. Though with how great of a job Lycunadari did, it's probably for the best.

I saw this video and thought maybe you guys would be interested. I know I would pass it around to explain the lack of boxes in the world....sad day for box enthusiast.

*will have a looksie*

[Jeff the Green]

Just saw a pretty good video, by a man, about misogyny and whatnot.

Ill Doctrine, maybe? I adore Jay Smooth, and want him to be both the president and Harry Dresden in a movie/TV series that sticks to the books.

[bluewind95]

I just found out that a person I considered a friend... is a horrible transphobe that hates a transgirl who is really a beautiful person just because she's trans and oh-so-unnatural.

I'm not trans. But I can't abide by such things. I feel pretty sad now.

[Triscuitable]

I just found out that a person I considered a friend... is a horrible transphobe that hates a transgirl who is really a beautiful person just because she's trans and oh-so-unnatural.

I'm not trans. But I can't abide by such things. I feel pretty sad now.

If you look back a few threads (it'd be roughly April-June-ish), I had a similar experience with a person I considered my friend. I won't revisit it, but I'll let you know that I've been there.

I do applaud you for keeping your cool, however. I wasn't able to control my temper (for the first time in my life, I was provoked into a fight).

[bluewind95]

I didn't quite lose my cool, but I did call him a disgusting human being (calmly), and told him that if he hated that transwoman for being trans, then he hated me too because I'm (sort of? I am not sure I quite understand this in myself.. it's so confusing) transgendered (in that I fluctuate from slightly female-feeling to slightly male-feeling and mostly agendered).

Edit: Sleepy, sleepy, posting without finishing. Anyways, I can't take it. I can't consider a transphobe, or a homophobe a friend. I mean... this place is my home. And it's because of YOU people. LGBTA people. You guys even helped me identify myself comfortably as an asexual, and thanks to you guys I no longer feel I'm a straight person with something seriously wrong. Someone that can't accept the extended family I adopted (you guys and some other friends), I can't consider friends.

[golentan]

If you'll grant me the liberty of being completely unfair and self interested, it's perfectly reasonable to stop considering the person a friend, and make that clear. But if you could see it in your heart to not disengage immediately... you can't convince someone without having some sort of dialogue, even if there is a point where you have to write someone off entirely.

[Arachu]

~Phoenix~
I keep forgetting to do the signature thing, so I have to go back and edit it in...>_< I'm just not used to doing it yet!

It takes a bit, but eventually you just sorta learn to remember it as easily as you do the "Submit Reply" button.

I also have pictures, sorta. My therapist (not psychiatrist) appointment went really well yesterday and he congratulated me on my progress and I also went in a lot more femme-y than usually and I just felt really happy about it in general so I rewarded myself with some nail polish:

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I bet you'd look good in any color, but that one is so yours~

~Matthew~
Because I want a cool signature too!!!!

X3

If only there was some automatic function you could set to post the same text beneath your posts every time... a signature if you will

But then we wouldn't have as much room for links and self-professed witticisms.

Heh, sorry. Was a Futurama reference. Leela poses as a male soldier, and Zap is attracted to "him"(her) and is confused about it, and his line is, "That soldier fills me with hope.....as well as other emotions that are, deeply confusing...."

Called it~

I don't know. Like, I shaved (my face) on Monday for my psych appointment and then when I tried to shave again Wednesday it hurt a lot, even though I was using a razor I had only used once before, used shaving cream and applied an anti-irritation thingie afterwards. It's just, shaving just seems to hurt a ton no matter what I do, which makes the whole deal so much worse. :/

I know, but... I don't like stubble... :c

*So many hugs* Have you tried using an electric razor? :c

I wonder if bisexual women/lesbians find it as difficult to focus on the face as us poor guys...

Sometimes. Depends on a couple of factors.

Feeling a bit better now. I went over to see a friend for hugs, cookies, and long conversation. She pointed out something that I feel a bit silly for not realising myself - just because someone looks at me and ticks the mental box on my record saying "trans", doesn't mean they don't file me under "female" anyway.

Thanks for all of your support, guys! You're all the best! *hugs whole thread!*

I think option #3 is the one I'm going to take. I'll suggest to my parents that we try and scope out her feelings about trans people, to see if I don't have to eventually completely alienate myself from my own family.

*So many hugs* Here's hoping it goes well, whatever happens. Worst-case scenario, you can probably start transitioning and just conceal signs around her like Lena suggested~

I love your new avatar, Phee. It's gorgeous.

It is~

I just found out that a person I considered a friend... is a horrible transphobe that hates a transgirl who is really a beautiful person just because she's trans and oh-so-unnatural.

I'm not trans. But I can't abide by such things. I feel pretty sad now.

If you look back a few threads (it'd be roughly April-June-ish), I had a similar experience with a person I considered my friend. I won't revisit it, but I'll let you know that I've been there.

I do applaud you for keeping your cool, however. I wasn't able to control my temper (for the first time in my life, I was provoked into a fight).

D: *Hugs both of you*


~Bianca

[SiuiS]

I just found out that a person I considered a friend... is a horrible transphobe that hates a transgirl who is really a beautiful person just because she's trans and oh-so-unnatural.

I'm not trans. But I can't abide by such things. I feel pretty sad now.

Sucks. If you have to cut ties, do so. But consider maybe his views have always been reinforced, never challenged?

Regardless, I'm sorry you had to get hit by that I hope you start to feel better soon.

If you'll grant me the liberty of being completely unfair and self interested, it's perfectly reasonable to stop considering the person a friend, and make that clear. But if you could see it in your heart to not disengage immediately... you can't convince someone without having some sort of dialogue, even if there is a point where you have to write someone off entirely.

this is good advice.

[Triscuitable]

So this is kind of neat, my parents have left town (my sister too). So I'm taking care of the house while they're gone. It's pretty nice to actually wear the clothes I want to wear for once.

[Mina Kobold]

I caught up with the thread! Yay! ^_^

*Belated hugs, cookies, congratulations, empathy and seconding of comments.*

My deepest apologies for being away for so long and a thousand times sorry for not helping what little I can. I was on a school trip to Dublin from the 5th through 10th and had little chance to get back on. It was great fun, but I very much missed everybody here.

I think option #3 is the one I'm going to take. I'll suggest to my parents that we try and scope out her feelings about trans people, to see if I don't have to eventually completely alienate myself from my own family.

I too think that might be the least hurtful choice, but I hope very much that you can find a way to be out without it harming your family's financial situation. Is it possible to make your grandparent promise not to let their opinion of you affect the inheritance to your parent? ^_^'

Hopefully your grandparent is much less bigoted than we fear. But if not, then remember that it is that person's choice to sacrifice family and see them suffer over petty dislikes of who they are, not yours. You are who they are, and their bigotry has no say in that.

I saw this video and thought maybe you guys would be interested. I know I would pass it around to explain the lack of boxes in the world....sad day for box enthusiast.

Thanks for posting that. It is a very useful video.

Is Vlogbrothers a show/channel that person makes videos for or is this a mirror of something else? I ask because I know that person makes a show called SciShow and I am wondering if I could find it on that channel. ^_^'

I just found out that a person I considered a friend... is a horrible transphobe that hates a transgirl who is really a beautiful person just because she's trans and oh-so-unnatural.

I'm not trans. But I can't abide by such things. I feel pretty sad now.

*Hugs/cookies/sympathy*

That is terrible. I hope that person gets better and stops being transphobic.

So this is kind of neat, my parents have left town (my sister too). So I'm taking care of the house while they're gone. It's pretty nice to actually wear the clothes I want to wear for once.

Congrats! ^_^

[noparlpf]

Ill Doctrine, maybe? I adore Jay Smooth, and want him to be both the president and Harry Dresden in a movie/TV series that sticks to the books.

I don't remember, I'll check on facebook. I think it was called "The Factuary".

[Asta Kask]

Best argument against gay marriage ever:

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Well, I'm convinced.

[Mono Vertigo]

Best argument against gay marriage ever:

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Well, I'm convinced.

To be fair, when I originally saw that, I had no idea if that was a genuine opinion or a parody.
I still don't.
Otherwise, well, we're still walking over the Earth's surface, like our ancestors did. Whales' ancestors left water only for a brief time, before going back to the sea. That means we're behind whales evolutionarily. We should rush to the ocean, become sea-faring creatures, and show those damn whales who's boss.

[Mina Kobold]

Best argument against gay marriage ever:

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Well, I'm convinced.

I am quite convinced too! While ducks might not be the worst overlords, we should try not to go back to Stone Age civilisation!

Thus our only choice is to outlaw this "Heterosexuality" nonsense that we have been dragging with us since then, clearly the Iron Age and Roman period custom of Homosexuality and the Computer Age bisexuality and Asexuality are far superior!

Sorry, I shall go sit in the laundry basket of shame. That was a terrible joke. ^_^'

[noparlpf]

Best argument against gay marriage ever:

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Well, I'm convinced.

Welp. Better go tell my mum to disown me, because I might just be changing sides after that convincing argument.

(Though it might not be too bad if ducks took over as the dominant species. We've certainly lost out when it comes to male genitalia.)

[Serpentine]

I'd prefer not to have rape as a standard reproduction method, if it's all the same to you :I