LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax

[Ninja_Grand]

Gruen Planet thinks that since making gay marriage legal is so hard, perhaps we should ban all marriage.

See both campaigns here.

You dont send a nuke because a man has a gun.....

First, hugs to Kender! Sorry or leaving you out for a spell there, luv. Tweren't intentional.

Second, what reluctance means is that people have spent years excusing poor behavior by claiming to have asperger's. Apparently there was a trend to self-diagnose? Whatever. Now, because of all the jerk-faced ninnies who have spent years saying "it's not my fault, I'm an aspie", when someone says Asperger's most people hear "jerk-faced ninny" instead of "legitimate neurological(?) issue". In the same way "–ception" has come to mean a thing inside of itself instead of its original meaning.

Basically, some *******s used Asperger's as a psychological shield for their ****ty behavior and ruined Asperger's for the people who can seriously excuse themselves by it. People call each other Aspies in the same way retard, gay, and 'on crack' were code words for lesser creature in the past.

I hate that. Last year my main class was 30ft away from the Mulit-hanicaped class. I made best friends with all of them. Hell, one named Kyle and he did some bad stuff. He ownded up. He dint say he had Asperger's. Even thoue he dose he just like., "sorry, Ill work on that." not "I cant help it!"

...
ALL HAIL LGBT MOTH
HE SHALL SAVE US FROM HETEROZILLA

Made my day. Cheerd me up from some crap that JUST happend.

I think that every time I have a dirty thought in public! Especially if it's along the lines of "Day-um, I would hit that! With a leather flogger...." (This may not be an accurate rendering of my internal voice.) about someone nearby. I always follow it up with. "Gosh, I hope they're not psychic...!" And then one time, I thought that (but it wasn't because I thought they were hot, it was because their dog was stupendously ugly) and then they looked right at me! And I was like "On no! It finally happened!" and then they said "You can cross now, love." cause I was just standing there at a crossing and the light had gone green. It was super awkward.

You speak my mind. Now I fit the sterotypical horny teenager By. The. Book. The day tellapathic headgear is sold is the day I stay at home, forever.



Also, Because i cant seem to post without some bad thing happening, here it is in a nut shell.

1. Its homecoming dace time! YAY!
2. Ive been flirting with a hot,funny,awesome, emo girl with a unhealthy obsseion with green day! YAY!
3. I ask her to go to the dance with me! She says yes! YAY!
4. I just learn that she cant make it. She has a family reunion. Crap....
5. I ask her out. She has been dateing a girl named Rocky for a month. FML......

[Coidzor]

To be fair, she seemed to mean that quality of care shouldn't depend on circumstances/assumptions. The medicine itself probably should be coldly efficient, once the best application of it has been appropriately discussed.

You can't really separate the care from the delivery of said care though. Plus, doing what works and is good care =/= "coldly efficient."

It's like how being truthful =/= being "brutally honest."

It's problematic when you call people words like that without knowing that they're okay with it. Because reclaiming or not, these are still words that carry an entire culture of prejudice and hatred behind them, so don't use them without knowing if peeps are okay with you using them for them.

And then it's problematic when people are ok with being called that, just not by someone who isn't a perfectly happy camper who agrees with them on every single facet of life, even above and beyond LGBTA issues, to the point where they turn full-psycho and axe someone from both the "friend" and "worthy of continuing to live" columns in their internal registry.

But then, people being craycray extends so much beyond this arena that it's not even funny.

Also going to second Zork here; there are a lot of people who call themselves allies out there but who aren't in essence. It's really frustrating just how much bigotry I've seen and faced even in places that are supposed to be GRSM safe places. It can get depressing sometime. And yes, I know it's often people having good intentions but messing up and such, but it's important if they actually listen to us then.

I really do appreciate you all here a ton. This thread is pretty much the only LGBT+ related place where I feel really at ease.

*Zorg, I thought.

It's still kind of funny to attack all allies because some people claim to be allies but aren't. Like that one random guy who "lived a year as a gay man," who became newsworthy somehow a few days ago.

[Rawhide]

You dont send a nuke because a man has a gun.....

Yes you do.

[Astrella]

It's still kind of funny to attack all allies because some people claim to be allies but aren't. Like that one random guy who "lived a year as a gay man," who became newsworthy somehow a few days ago.

Iunno, I can understand people being frustrated with it (more the people going "so brave" than the actual guy though). The problem is sorta that you have someone non-queer jump in, live queer life (a limited perspective of it) and come out of it with a book deal while accounts of queer people are niche fiction? It sorta has an undercurrent of "you need a straight person to explain it to you" feel. *shrug*

[Coidzor]

Iunno, I can understand people being frustrated with it (more the people going "so brave" than the actual guy though). The problem is sorta that you have someone non-queer jump in, live queer life (a limited perspective of it) and come out of it with a book deal while accounts of queer people are niche fiction? It sorta has an undercurrent of "you need a straight person to explain it to you" feel. *shrug*

I honestly can't understand how being frustrated with one guy's stupid stunt and an unfair economic setup would lead one to decide that all allies are not actually allies.

I think I'm misreading you though. x.x

[Astrella]

I honestly can't understand how being frustrated with one guy's stupid stunt and an unfair economic setup would lead one to decide that all allies are not actually allies.

I think I'm misreading you though. x.x

Huh? I don't think I said that? I was just commenting on that specific case. I agree with you that attacking all allies (or any group) cause some of them are bad is an awful thing to do.

[Selpharia]

I honestly can't understand how being frustrated with one guy's stupid stunt and an unfair economic setup would lead one to decide that all allies are not actually allies.

I think it's more being frustrated that people see "allies" as having made some great sacrifice or commitment, when often their commitment is a purely passive one- not to engage in discrimination, rather than to be active agents of positive change. For example that guy is some great "ambassador" because he lived a life for a year, when that can't possibly give understanding of the life-long experiences of people who are actually queer. And it adds insult to injury when he's rewarded far above people who have suffered and known much more. It would be kind of like saying you know what it is to have a disability because you broke your leg once. This man could choose to stop being gay, because he was pretending, the person's leg heals, but people who really have those conditions can't just suddenly decide not to have them.

That said, I do think such an experience is valuable, because even if you can't understand 100% of what life is likde for a group, there's bound to be something true that gets across, and if the reportig person being "normal" helps the message get out, then that's still better than nothing. It's a poor substitute, and should eventually be replaced by "real" accounts when people can understand those better, but it's a first step

~Laura

[Coidzor]

I think it's more being frustrated that people see "allies" as having made some great sacrifice or commitment

People do? I don't even. I've not run into that kind of attitude before, aside from when they've discussed people who were murdered or maimed. Though I honestly can never remember any individuals' names in general aside from the big two of Milk and Shepard.

when often their commitment is a purely passive one- not to engage in discrimination, rather than to be active agents of positive change.

Are allies even allowed to help in that capacity? I'd thought they were basically relegated away from active roles for logistical and ideological reasons, mostly pertaining to control of the movement's formal apparatuses and perceptions of direction. And people seem to always raise a stink whenever an ally tries to organize something beyond getting to the point where they can turn it over to someone else who has more legitimacy in the movement.

For example that guy is some great "ambassador" because he lived a life for a year, when that can't possibly give understanding of the life-long experiences of people who are actually queer. And it adds insult to injury when he's rewarded far above people who have suffered and known much more.

Honestly that whole situation is bizarre to me, especially as it was first brought to my attention in a context where a particular subculture was eating it up. I hadn't actually seen any mainstream media reactions to him, but the consensus of the people I'd discussed it with either thought he was shamelessly self-serving or a surprisingly dedicated naive fool.

[Triscuitable]

Thought I should share this.

[Selpharia]

People do? I don't even. I've not run into that kind of attitude before, aside from when they've discussed people who were murdered or maimed. Though I honestly can never remember any individuals' names in general aside from the big two of Milk and Shepard.
[



Are allies even allowed to help in that capacity? I'd thought they were basically relegated away from active roles for logistical and ideological reasons, mostly pertaining to control of the movement's formal apparatuses and perceptions of direction. And people seem to always raise a stink whenever an ally tries to organize something beyond getting to the point where they can turn it over to someone else who has more legitimacy in the movement.



Honestly that whole situation is bizarre to me, especially as it was first brought to my attention in a context where a particular subculture was eating it up. I hadn't actually seen any mainstream media reactions to him, but the consensus of the people I'd discussed it with either thought he was shamelessly self-serving or a surprisingly dedicated naive fool.

For ally sacrifice, it's less a perception by the "community" than what the people who dislike allies think the broader population thinks. It gets circular pretty quick.

I don't know how much that is borne out in the facts, but I think that's the narrative that leads to "ally hating" in general (although with a good deal less vitriol than it usually involves. Granted, I don't have much evidence on this, apart from some of the statements I've seen expressing such sentiments. Ultimately it's somewhat irrational, and looking for clear evidential links is not necessarily going to work.

Regarding the specific case, I don't know exactly, but that would seem the most understandable angle to me. But I'll be the first to admit that my opinion is worth exactly its weight in gold.

~Laura

[Mystic Muse]

How many sessions does it usually take with a Psychiatrist before one can actually get HRT? I'm just curious so I know how much I need in savings before I can schedule an appointment with one.

http://micheleomaracom.hypermart.net...s/transgender/ Here is one I found who could do a Skype session, but the price per session is rather...steep for my means ($115 for a 50 minute session, $175 for an 85 minute session). If anybody knows of a place where I could find other qualified people in Indiana, I'd be thrilled to know.

Mostly linking so people can say whether they think she seems good, or not.

[Astrella]

Are allies even allowed to help in that capacity? I'd thought they were basically relegated away from active roles for logistical and ideological reasons, mostly pertaining to control of the movement's formal apparatuses and perceptions of direction. And people seem to always raise a stink whenever an ally tries to organize something beyond getting to the point where they can turn it over to someone else who has more legitimacy in the movement.

Allies can perfectly fine be active participants, the only thing they need to do is listen to the people they're an ally too and not talk over them.

@Mystic Muse; your best bet is getting into contact with local trans people who've had experience with her. I'd recommend getting in touch with a local trans forum / community; they'd know the specifics of Indiana as well and what hurdles to deal with. T-Vox also has a list of trans related therapists.

I'd also check out r/asktransgender on reddit; cause it's one of the biggest trans communities I know of.

[Reluctance]

I don't understand what Asperger's has to do with it. Could you explain?

People self-diagnosed and said "you have to overlook my being socially incompetent and douchey, due to my aspergers". The word has since morphed and is used as a generic slur for people who are socially incompetent and douchey. What might've been convenient in the short-term for a few people just made things harder for a bunch more in the long run. Other examples of bad behavior on the part of a few bad eggs, allowed to run rampant, are the PR issues with bisexuality and feminism. (Which, without getting into the nature of either, I think we can agree that they have their PR problems.)

So if people say "you have to put up with my being a jerkface because I'm queer, and if you disagree you're just a transphobic oppressor jealously guarding your unearned privilege", it's going to go in much the same way. Especially if third parties, wanting to keep their ally badges, enable and validate this sort of behavior.

Back in my day, "trolling" was just called "being a ****". I don't like the word "trolling". It's taken on a positive spin this generation.
Much as it might be rewarding the one person who put up the flier(s), it is completely necessary to make it clear that rape and "jokes" about rape are completely unacceptable under any circumstances. Just letting it go would be joining and supporting rape culture. Bystanders might think they're uninvolved, but silence is taken as tacit approval. It's not about the isolated case, it's about rape culture as a whole.

To me, the key thing that separates trolls from garden variety a-holes is that the former are doing it solely for a reaction. They get off on getting people riled up.

Say what you will, the bad joke in question got a lot of people very visibly riled up. If someone behaves poorly for a reaction, reacting that strongly only rewards them for bad behavior.

A lot of the issues with "allies" is people wanting a pat on the back for being awesome and special because they don't hate us. Um, no, that's called not being a disgusting waste of flesh you sack of crap.
Of course there are genuine allies who actually try to help make things better and stand up for us, but often the most vocal and noticable are the ones who disappear when things get tough or are quick to remind us of how lucky we are that they accept us.

The tumblr war against allies was kicked off by an initiative of a group to get one week of LGBT moth designated as "allies week", which annoyed a lot of people for reasons.

I've directed more than my share of hate against merit badge allies too. Think about it for a second, though; if you're asking me not to judge a group of people by their loudest, douchiest members, judging all allies by that metric might work against you.

Of course, it's also worth noticing that merit badge allies tend to be noisy and obnoxious to everybody else, and tend to be supported when the cause finds it temporarily convenient. The fact of the matter is that if you support someone, it's disingenuous to try distancing yourself when it becomes politically inconvenient. (That's a general "you", not directed at anybody in this thread.)

X3Irrelevant - letting people alienate us further actually hurts the movement. Besides, allies are awesome, they deserve better than that.

(Plus, complaining about one problem isn't the same as ignoring "bigger" ones. I for one am quite upset those examples, I'm just not in a position to do much about them right now.)

I'm not saying "eff trans folk*, there are more important issues in the world". Throwing whole groups of people under the bus is a pretty important issue.

Rather, tying my above two points together, someone who acts like a major jerk should be ignored and avoided rather than rewarding their bad behavior. Baseline "don't be a jerk" behavior should be part and parcel of being a decent human being, but active effort and visible support should be withdrawn for bad behavior. No, this isn't perfect. The alternative is allowing those people to think their behavior is acceptable, and causing deeper problems down the line by poisoning public perception.

(Also wanted to agree with everybody above who said that being a decent human being should be an assumed base state, and that one shouldn't need special recognition for doing so. Again, merit badge allies suck.)

*(I almost said "trannies" here until I remembered I got warned for using the word before. Not disputing the warn - I was heated and needed to be told to cool off - but a question for Rawhide. If it's a word that tramples on peoples feelings now, and given that we're unlikely to be talking about other uses like car transmissions, might it be worth putting the word onto the board filter? I wonder what other forumites think, too.)

[Triscuitable]

People self-diagnosed and said "you have to overlook my being socially incompetent and douchey, due to my aspergers". The word has since morphed and is used as a generic slur for people who are socially incompetent and douchey. What might've been convenient in the short-term for a few people just made things harder for a bunch more in the long run. Other examples of bad behavior on the part of a few bad eggs, allowed to run rampant, are the PR issues with bisexuality and feminism. (Which, without getting into the nature of either, I think we can agree that they have their PR problems.)

So if people say "you have to put up with my being a jerkface because I'm queer, and if you disagree you're just a transphobic oppressor jealously guarding your unearned privilege", it's going to go in much the same way. Especially if third parties, wanting to keep their ally badges, enable and validate this sort of behavior.

Yeah, well, just like how some might take offense if you start generalizing trans* and gay people like that, the autistic community will also take offense to saying stuff like that. Many playgrounders (myself included) have been professionally diagnosed. Several generations of my family have had numerous aspies in the family.

[Lord Raziere]

and I still say, that no matter what, these causes- Aspergers, LGBTA- should not be stopped because of a few jerks being….jerks! trolls are just jerks, and both are the small-minded insignificant fleas of the world that you don't give the time of the day.
so what if its rewarding them? that act out too many times, its them who will get punished and ruin their own future for kicks and giggles, it only means the causes should be redoubled, the fight for peoples rights continued. a bunch of jerks, whose goal is so simple-minded and primitive as to be nothing but making people shocked for jollies, shouldn't be something we stop for, something to hide from.

If a faker saying he has aspergers uses it as an excuse, that only means I have to stand up and show the people how great a real "aspie" is, tell it to them straight how hard I've worked to make myself better, how hard I'm working to make myself even greater and that I will not be stopped by some small-minded jerks load of bull.
If I could, I would explain to the faker in full exactly what I think of what they are doing, and furthermore explain how their actions are some of the stupidest ever made. That is if I trusted them to even listen.

True, it saddens me that these stupid idiots are causing setbacks and problems for people trying to do good. But thats life. Complications happen, you get used to it and just try and do better anyways. I'd rather keep fighting for progress rather than back down and allow ignorance and stupidity to win.

[SiuiS]

Overgratuitous use of word filter turns swearing into a game, guessing the word from the asterisk count and such. I think it would backfire.

I'm going to stop you right there and point out that while some people want to practice medicine in that way or end up doing so because of how the systems in place make the alternative difficult to impossible depending upon region, they've actually been finding out that actually having a rapport with one's medical professional improves outcomes and, y'know, actually acting like human beings leads to better healthcare.

X is not objectively or universally Y just because some or a lot of people are doing it wrong.

Which is why Psychology and Psychiatry still have something to offer and are worthwhile fields for us to improve our understanding despite the whole torturing children for kicks thing.

You misunderstand; I was speaking of a general point of view to express how while some can make claims that medicine, as a science, is inherently noble and withou bias an is entirely about cold, hard facts, it is in reality an abstract concept applie by people with very real, very human biases and by the time you notice it's too late to mitigate the damage. I myself do not find this true, and you will note I said as much prior with science being less important than its application, which is always judgmental.

It's problematic when you call people words like that without knowing that they're okay with it. Because reclaiming or not, these are still words that carry an entire culture of prejudice and hatred behind them, so don't use them without knowing if peeps are okay with you using them for them.

Oh, no, I mean when a group of people all say, for example, 'Nintendo' but they will flip out about anyone outside their group saying Nintendo. Calling someone a slur is bad. I also feel claiming a slur or your own personal us is bad, and no amount of reclaiming will fix that.

Yes, and I think that's perfectly fair to be honest. There's a huge difference between using a term for yourself and having someone else use it for you.

Edit: Sorry if I'm coming over as snippy; I had a sucky day but I wouldn't want to take it out on any of you. :/

It's cool Hon, we understand. It's hard to remain stoic about topics you're vested in. We are all friends here, we understand.

I think that every time I have a dirty thought in public! Especially if it's along the lines of "Day-um, I would hit that! With a leather flogger...." (This may not be an accurate rendering of my internal voice.) about someone nearby. I always follow it up with. "Gosh, I hope they're not psychic...!" And then one time, I thought that (but it wasn't because I thought they were hot, it was because their dog was stupendously ugly) and then they looked right at me! And I was like "On no! It finally happened!" and then they said "You can cross now, love." cause I was just standing there at a crossing and the light had gone green. It was super awkward.

Nice. I had something like that happen. I took a bus in a strange town to find an eyeglass shop, fretting the while but not saying a word. There was a guy who kept scoffing, an eventually looked me dead in the eye and said "Lens Crafters is out this stop, three buildings down." and grinned. And when I thought "wow, it's like he is reading My mind" he laughed.

Creepy.

I admit, I've been getting really enraged over anti-gay marriage statements I've been exposed to.

Yeah...

That can be a genuine problem, and I've said it before - we must get people to connect the things they say about "all men being equal" with "support for gay marriage" or "trans rights". And get allies to stand up and say "what I'm doing is the minimum". If we keep telling people that we're special just for doing what we do then they'll think you need to be special. And you don't. You just have to be a decent human being.

If that rant made no sense, I'm off to bed now. Maybe I'll be able to fix it in the morning.

It made plenty of sense. All men are created equal is supposed to apply to all of them.

You can't really separate the care from the delivery of said care though. Plus, doing what works and is good care =/= "coldly efficient."

It's like how being truthful =/= being "brutally honest."

As someone who has interest in the holistic side of healthcare, I agree.

[Astrella]

In other news, this is pretty neat. (Well, the policy, not the complaints. :s )

[Arachu]

I think if someone read my mind... Er, I wouldn't be too worried about them finding sexual stuff amidst all the other rapid-fire thoughts and whatnot. I'm a confusing place.

*(I almost said "trannies" here until I remembered I got warned for using the word before. Not disputing the warn - I was heated and needed to be told to cool off - but a question for Rawhide. If it's a word that tramples on peoples feelings now, and given that we're unlikely to be talking about other uses like car transmissions, might it be worth putting the word onto the board filter? I wonder what other forumites think, too.)

I might agree, but I'm not certain how I feel about censorship. *Shrug*

In other news, this is pretty neat. (Well, the policy, not the complaints. :s )

~Bianca

[Absol197]

Thought I should share this.

That is exactly how I frame the issue. Even before I realized how much of a personal stake those rulings have for me, I would always frame th arguments in my mind as: "So these people believes that [my gay friend] doesn't have the right to be happy? Even though he's a wonderful person, and has gone through more hardship than most of them can imagine? Yeah no."

How many sessions does it usually take with a Psychiatrist before one can actually get HRT? I'm just curious so I know how much I need in savings before I can schedule an appointment with one.

http://micheleomaracom.hypermart.net...s/transgender/ Here is one I found who could do a Skype session, but the price per session is rather...steep for my means ($115 for a 50 minute session, $175 for an 85 minute session). If anybody knows of a place where I could find other qualified people in Indiana, I'd be thrilled to know.

Mostly linking so people can say whether they think she seems good, or not.

While I sadly don't have any advice on finding a good local therapist (I basically just did a Google search, read some profiles, and visited five who I thought were the most likely to be helpful), I do want to express my surprise that you live in Indiana! What city? I visit my family in Indianapolis for about a week every Christmas.

You don't have to answer if you don't want; I realize that's a personal question. Sorry if you're offended...

Nice. I had something like that happen. I took a bus in a strange town to find an eyeglass shop, fretting the while but not saying a word. There was a guy who kept scoffing, an eventually looked me dead in the eye and said "Lens Crafters is out this stop, three buildings down." and grinned. And when I thought "wow, it's like he is reading My mind" he laughed.

Creepy.

That's both kinda scary and kinda awesome! You should find that guy again and ask if he's really psychic! If he is, he'll know you're looking for him!

In other news, this is pretty neat. (Well, the policy, not the complaints. :s )

I loved that article! It's good to see that some people are trying to spread equality around!

And even though I knew it was a bad idea, I read the article the IFI wrote on the matter. One thing that I find funny is that they wrote something to the effect of: "Does this kind of treatment actually help 'transgender' students, or does it only make them subjectively 'feel' better?" Isn't that kind of what helping them is?

~Phoenix~

[Lea Plath]

So much to read @.@ And lots of people needing hugs...

*hugs all round*

I've been having some weird and quite upsetting dreams recently. Most of them involve me becoming a shapeshifter (yay), but somehow getting trapped in the form of something I don't want to be in a rapidly shrinking room.

Sitting down and thinking (a cat on the lap helps) made me kinda realise something. My dreams were pretty much the perfect metaphor for my life. I'm overweight, I'm doing nothing and I can change that. So from now, trying to lose the weight, be happier with myself. Make it so I can look like the 2 people I want to be (male and female me).

Any advise on hair styles? :3

And I've got a question on allyship. What would you guys say the core principles are that all allys should support? I know an ally doesn't have to agree with everything in a movement, but what would you say makes someone an ally?

[Asta Kask]

In other news, this is pretty neat. (Well, the policy, not the complaints. :s )

Christians complaining about unproven beliefs...

And I've got a question on allyship. What would you guys say the core principles are that all allys should support? I know an ally doesn't have to agree with everything in a movement, but what would you say makes someone an ally?

I'd say it's a commitment to getting people and society to treat LGBTA people and non-LGBTA people (for instance) with equal respect for their rights. What rights these are would vary from ally to ally - threading on thin ice, a libertarian ally and a liberal ally would disagree about what specific rights this would be, but agree that there should be no difference between LGBTA people and non-LGBTA people.

And His Lordship agrees to become thread patron.

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[Socratov]

I agree with Asta here and would like to add to at least lead by example and try and lend support on a more personal level (like mouthing off bullies, listening to LGBT people when they need to vent or talk things off or indeed offering advice when asked for it). (at least that's how I see it)

[noparlpf]

Yes, and I think that's perfectly fair to be honest. There's a huge difference between using a term for yourself and having someone else use it for you.

Edit: Sorry if I'm coming over as snippy; I had a sucky day but I wouldn't want to take it out on any of you. :/

I'm not a fan of slurs, vulgarities, reclaiming words, or limiting words. I also personally never refer to myself in a way that would bother me if somebody else repeated it. But, to each their own.

If it would make things better, you could tell us. Shared burden is halved burden, shared joy is double joy.

There was some series of books there.

That can be a genuine problem, and I've said it before - we must get people to connect the things they say about "all men being equal" with "support for gay marriage" or "trans rights". And get allies to stand up and say "what I'm doing is the minimum". If we keep telling people that we're special just for doing what we do then they'll think you need to be special. And you don't. You just have to be a decent human being.

If that rant made no sense, I'm off to bed now. Maybe I'll be able to fix it in the morning.

"All men are created equal" wasn't even true about all men when the phrase was coined. Some men have always been more equal than other men. Personal dislike of the specific phrase because of its history of hypocrisy aside, that makes sense to me.

I honestly can't understand how being frustrated with one guy's stupid stunt and an unfair economic setup would lead one to decide that all allies are not actually allies.

I think I'm misreading you though. x.x

People are remarkably bad at discrimination. The proper meaning, not the basically-inverted current definition. Generalisations about groups are unfortunately the standard way many people interpret individuals' actions.

Thought I should share this.

That's a good one. I like it.

And His Lordship agrees to become thread patron.

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Well, better go find a sacrifice. Does His Lordship prefer mice or virgins?

[Asta Kask]

Boiled white fish. Or fried chicken. But what he loves above all is people petting him. Tummy rubs are very popular. And none of you try to steal me.

"All men are created equal" wasn't even true about all men when the phrase was coined. Some men have always been more equal than other men. Personal dislike of the specific phrase because of its history of hypocrisy aside, that makes sense to me.

Yeah, and it's bad phrasing in an equal society but it's a classic. I think you can get far with simple reciprocity - treat people like they treat you. And stand your ground with defending your values, even if you are not directly threatened by someone. So if they attack LGBTA people, stand up for your values of equal treatment (which leaves the problem of people who treat everyone like crap, but this is a rule of thumb).

[KenderWizard]

Iunno, I can understand people being frustrated with it (more the people going "so brave" than the actual guy though). The problem is sorta that you have someone non-queer jump in, live queer life (a limited perspective of it) and come out of it with a book deal while accounts of queer people are niche fiction? It sorta has an undercurrent of "you need a straight person to explain it to you" feel. *shrug*

Straightsplaining. Like mansplaining or whitesplaining. The "Hello, oppressed group, I, a member of the privileged group, have arrived to explain your situation to yourself and others. You're welcome."

Nice. I had something like that happen. I took a bus in a strange town to find an eyeglass shop, fretting the while but not saying a word. There was a guy who kept scoffing, an eventually looked me dead in the eye and said "Lens Crafters is out this stop, three buildings down." and grinned. And when I thought "wow, it's like he is reading My mind" he laughed.

Creepy.

I would totally freak out if that happened! ... And probably immediately think something awful to see what he'd do.

I think if someone read my mind... Er, I wouldn't be too worried about them finding sexual stuff amidst all the other rapid-fire thoughts and whatnot. I'm a confusing place.

I guess it's usually dirty thoughts for me because I tend to be a pretty open person about the rest of my crazies. I tend to say out loud. "Guys! I've just realised how crap it'd be to be a squid. I really don't want to be a squid."

And I've got a question on allyship. What would you guys say the core principles are that all allys should support? I know an ally doesn't have to agree with everything in a movement, but what would you say makes someone an ally?

I'm going to say
1) Believing oppressed group and privileged group are equally deserving of rights and should be treated equally and fairly.
2) Willing to recognise and check own privilege, especially where it counts (listening to members of oppressed group).
3) Willing to call out others and stand up for those rights, in line with own abilities. (For example, if a black kid in a dodgy bar full of drunk and entitled white people heard a transphobic slur and decided to just keep his head down, I wouldn't take away his ally card, he has to look after himself. Or if a very shy person on their first day of work saw their boss dissing a gay person and didn't call the boss out, fair enough. But if a popular athlete in the gym they own laughed when one of their friends made a gay-bashing joke, that's not ally behaviour even if they then pull out excuses or insist they're totally pro-LGBT-rights.)

[The Succubus]

I guess it's usually dirty thoughts for me because I tend to be a pretty open person about the rest of my crazies. I tend to say out loud. "Guys! I've just realised how crap it'd be to be a squid. I really don't want to be a squid."

Any reason for this shameless cephalpoid discrimination?

I'm going to say
1) Believing oppressed group and privileged group are equally deserving of rights and should be treated equally and fairly.
2) Willing to recognise and check own privilege, especially where it counts (listening to members of oppressed group).
3) Willing to call out others and stand up for those rights, in line with own abilities. (For example, if a black kid in a dodgy bar full of drunk and entitled white people heard a transphobic slur and decided to just keep his head down, I wouldn't take away his ally card, he has to look after himself. Or if a very shy person on their first day of work saw their boss dissing a gay person and didn't call the boss out, fair enough. But if a popular athlete in the gym they own laughed when one of their friends made a gay-bashing joke, that's not ally behaviour even if they then pull out excuses or insist they're totally pro-LGBT-rights.)

Is it bad that I really don't think about any of that sort of stuff at all? I just come here because I like you all. I don't really think of it as being an ally or anything else. My thought processes are usually "Kender, Lix, Mystic, Arachu, etc are all really sweet people and I enjoy talking with them." The LGBT stuff is usually an afterthought.

[Arachu]

So much to read @.@ And lots of people needing hugs...

*hugs all round*

I've been having some weird and quite upsetting dreams recently. Most of them involve me becoming a shapeshifter (yay), but somehow getting trapped in the form of something I don't want to be in a rapidly shrinking room.

Sitting down and thinking (a cat on the lap helps) made me kinda realise something. My dreams were pretty much the perfect metaphor for my life. I'm overweight, I'm doing nothing and I can change that. So from now, trying to lose the weight, be happier with myself. Make it so I can look like the 2 people I want to be (male and female me).

Any advise on hair styles? :3

I can't think of any, but *hugs!*

And His Lordship agrees to become thread patron.

Spoiler

Show

I for one welcome our feline overlord. X3

I guess it's usually dirty thoughts for me because I tend to be a pretty open person about the rest of my crazies. I tend to say out loud. "Guys! I've just realised how crap it'd be to be a squid. I really don't want to be a squid."

It'd be totally awesome to be a squid. You'd get to swim around all the time, you could crush anything you wanted and nothing you didn't with your tentacles, sometimes you'd... Fight sperm whales... Okay, yeah, that would be a bit of a bummer. It'd totally ruin the whole experience. Ever see the teeth on those things? They 'aint pretty. I think I actually have four fillings - this surprises me, I didn't know that one even had a cavity. Also, solar panels for some reason.

Is it bad that I really don't think about any of that sort of stuff at all? I just come here because I like you all. I don't really think of it as being an ally or anything else. My thought processes are usually "Kender, Lix, Mystic, Arachu, etc are all really sweet people and I enjoy talking with them." The LGBT stuff is usually an afterthought.

*Hugs* Of course not~ That's actually really cool.


~Bianca

[Absol197]

Is it bad that I really don't think about any of that sort of stuff at all? I just come here because I like you all. I don't really think of it as being an ally or anything else. My thought processes are usually "Kender, Lix, Mystic, Arachu, etc are all really sweet people and I enjoy talking with them." The LGBT stuff is usually an afterthought.

No it's not bad. In fact, that, to me, is the definition of an ally. You treat us like people. And I would assume, since you like all of us (I assumed I'm part of that group, although I just realized that that's overstepping my bounds), you'd get mad when someone tried to say hurtful things about us, or take away our rights, yes? That's all you need, in my opinion.

~Phoenix~

[The Succubus]

That's pretty much it. It's easy to care about people. It's harder to care about concepts or ideas.

[Castaras]

The way I feel about people is that I couldn't care less what they were or how they're made, just so long as they're nice to me I'll be nice to them. I have an inbuilt sense of justice which gets me riled up if people are being discriminated against because they are or they aren't something (which works both way - "positive" discrimination is still discrimination and pisses me off).

Guess those who call themselves LGBT would fit in various slots there.