Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: G&G: Combat

  1. - Top - End - #1
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Eldan's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Switzerland
    Gender
    Male

    Default G&G: Combat

    Combat. D&D has problems with nonmagical combat. For one, it is relatively inflexible compared to magic, though that is also largely a problem of the classes that use it.

    This thread is for the basic, underlying combat system. A few points to think about:

    -What shall we do with combat special attacks? Should they be simplified? Should there be more of them?
    -What about full attacks? They make mobility in combat difficult, and the last few iteratives at high level are often almost pointless, as a -15 to hit compared to your main attack will rarely do much.
    -Should we include a maneuver system by default, as per Tome of Battle?
    "You raise your baton. The glass kettle drums pound out the the overture. Your vision clouds with blood. You wipe it away and continue. The xylophonist's hair bursts into a violet flame, but he continues playing. He's either a consummate professional or very drunk indeed..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    I want more mwa-ha-haaa and much less boo-hoo-hoo.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Craft (Cheese)'s Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2011

    Default Re: G&G: Combat

    That depends on what you want out of the system. I've been playtesting a setup I'd be happy to share for a while now that seems to work pretty well, but is also ridiculously abstract; The mechanics refer to narrative constructions that have no in-world analogue.

    Are you going for a 100% simulation setup, or are those sorts of abstractions okay? How much is movement supposed to matter, anyway? Is combat supposed to be quick and simple or long and detailed? Should tactics give you a considerable advantage, or should it be whoever has the highest stats wins?

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Troll in the Playground
     
    TheWombatOfDoom's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Aldain
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: G&G: Combat

    There was a system I was toying around with where I created a more realistic feel for real time as events occured. It affected initive and the amount of time actions took, along with how many actions each person could take in a round. If you'd like I could show you a basic diagram of what I have?
    Scientific Name: Wombous apocolypticus | Diet: Apocolypse Pie | Cuddly: Yes

    World Building Project:
    Magic
    : The Stuff of Sentience | Fate: The Fabric of Physics | Luck: The Basis of Biology

    Order of the Stick Projects:
    Annotation of the Comic | Spell Compendium of the Comic | Transcription of the Comic
    Dad-a-chum? Dum-a-chum? Ded-a-chek? Did-a-chick?
    Extended Signature | My DeviantArt
    (you can't take the sky from me)

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: G&G: Combat

    I submit my recent take on combat maneuvers to be subsumed into the project. I stole the CMB roll from Pathfinder, took out pretty much all attacks of opportunity, and cut out as many circumstantial modifiers as I could. I also added I think two new ones from Pathfinder, "Snatch" (trying to grab a non-weapon item off a guy) and "Dirty Trick" (sort of a miscellaneous option minor debuff).

    On the subject of full attacks, how 'bout we replace it with something like this:

    As a standard action, you may make a melee or ranged attack, rolling yadda yadda yadda... For every 5* points by which you exceed your opponent's armor class, you strike him one additional time.
    • When using light weapons, you only need to exceed his armor class by 3* points.
    • When using two-handed or reach weapons, you need to exceed his armor class by 7* points.
    • When two-weapon fighting, you only need to exceed his armor class by 3* points. If two-weapon fighting with a pair of light weapons, you only need to exceed his armor class by 2* points.
    • Non-repeating crossbows and similar weapons may never inflict iterative damage like this.


    This would cut down drastically on the amount of die rolling, which is good, and by making it a standard action, it improves mobility. It contains its own two-weapon fighting fix (no need to waste feats on iterative attacks!) And by making it harder to land iterative attacks with heavier weapons, it boosts sword-and-board fighting as well. It does leave the increasing penalties in place, though, and is somewhat abstract.

    *Number open to negotiation based on new system maths.

    I like maneuvers, but I don't think we should go full-on Tome of Battle for all classes. Maybe each class gets their own school-- Tiger Claw for barbarians, Devoted Spirit for paladins, Diamond Mind for rogues, etc-- and the fighter and warblade merge, with "the best fighter" getting access to other classes' special moves. Maneuvers for most classes should be icing on the cake, though-- special combat moves, but not the class' defining feature.

    I'd also be OK with not using maneuvers, as long as classes get similar such options in combat. My most recent fighter fix, my barbarian fix, and my never-entirely-completed Legend class are examples of what I'm talking about. None of them use the maneuver mechanic, but all have special combat abilities that make things more interesting than "I attack. I attack. I trip."
    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Major Works:
    • STaRS: The Simple Tabletop Roleplaying System; my attempt at a generic rules-light system.
    • Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 revisions-- houserules, class fixes, ban lists and more.
    • Chopping Down the Christmas Tree: Rules for low- or no-magic item games of 3.5.
    • D&D in M&M-- Balancing 3.5 by porting it lock, stock, and barrel into a more balanced system.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: G&G: Combat

    Also, to make AC a little more relevant and cut down on magic item dependance, how about adding either BAB or 1/2 BAB? Possibly in conjunction with an armor-as-DR rule.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Major Works:
    • STaRS: The Simple Tabletop Roleplaying System; my attempt at a generic rules-light system.
    • Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 revisions-- houserules, class fixes, ban lists and more.
    • Chopping Down the Christmas Tree: Rules for low- or no-magic item games of 3.5.
    • D&D in M&M-- Balancing 3.5 by porting it lock, stock, and barrel into a more balanced system.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Eldan's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Switzerland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: G&G: Combat

    Armour as DR has many, many problems. Probably too many to work without massive changes to both armour, DR and probably damage and hitting as well.

    How about a BAB independent defence bonus?
    "You raise your baton. The glass kettle drums pound out the the overture. Your vision clouds with blood. You wipe it away and continue. The xylophonist's hair bursts into a violet flame, but he continues playing. He's either a consummate professional or very drunk indeed..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    I want more mwa-ha-haaa and much less boo-hoo-hoo.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: G&G: Combat

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Armour as DR has many, many problems. Probably too many to work without massive changes to both armour, DR and probably damage and hitting as well.
    Really?

    How about a BAB independent defence bonus?
    It could work, but it seems like an unnecessary complication. BAB already exists as a measure of how capable you are in a fight; why add another one?
    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Major Works:
    • STaRS: The Simple Tabletop Roleplaying System; my attempt at a generic rules-light system.
    • Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 revisions-- houserules, class fixes, ban lists and more.
    • Chopping Down the Christmas Tree: Rules for low- or no-magic item games of 3.5.
    • D&D in M&M-- Balancing 3.5 by porting it lock, stock, and barrel into a more balanced system.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Eldan's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Switzerland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: G&G: Combat

    Armour as DR works for low levels, in my experience. Because when you are throwing a few hundred damage, those four points of DR from damage reduction won't matter much.
    Also, it is unfair on certain types over others. It rewards power attacking greatsword fighters who can trade those extra points they don't need to hit for more damage, while punishing two-weapon fighters.
    "You raise your baton. The glass kettle drums pound out the the overture. Your vision clouds with blood. You wipe it away and continue. The xylophonist's hair bursts into a violet flame, but he continues playing. He's either a consummate professional or very drunk indeed..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    I want more mwa-ha-haaa and much less boo-hoo-hoo.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: G&G: Combat

    Well, we'd need a way for TWF and archery to punch through DR anyway, given how many monsters have it...
    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Major Works:
    • STaRS: The Simple Tabletop Roleplaying System; my attempt at a generic rules-light system.
    • Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 revisions-- houserules, class fixes, ban lists and more.
    • Chopping Down the Christmas Tree: Rules for low- or no-magic item games of 3.5.
    • D&D in M&M-- Balancing 3.5 by porting it lock, stock, and barrel into a more balanced system.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Seerow's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: G&G: Combat

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Armour as DR works for low levels, in my experience. Because when you are throwing a few hundred damage, those four points of DR from damage reduction won't matter much.
    Also, it is unfair on certain types over others. It rewards power attacking greatsword fighters who can trade those extra points they don't need to hit for more damage, while punishing two-weapon fighters.
    For what it's worth, the system I personally use has DR scale with BAB, and applies on a per turn basis, rather than per hit (so as to not punish archers/TWFers). A low level character in my games has generally between 1 and 6 DR, while a max level character with full BAB and the best armor has around 60 DR.

    The trick is getting the scaling progression right, and having damage set to a point that the DR walks that fine line between useless and immune to most level appropriate enemies.
    If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?


  11. - Top - End - #11
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Eldan's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Switzerland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: G&G: Combat

    I once suggested making percentage based DR, if that helps. 1/4 DR, 1/2 DR, that kind of thing.
    "You raise your baton. The glass kettle drums pound out the the overture. Your vision clouds with blood. You wipe it away and continue. The xylophonist's hair bursts into a violet flame, but he continues playing. He's either a consummate professional or very drunk indeed..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    I want more mwa-ha-haaa and much less boo-hoo-hoo.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Seerow's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: G&G: Combat

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    I once suggested making percentage based DR, if that helps. 1/4 DR, 1/2 DR, that kind of thing.
    Percentages have a bad tendency of slowing the game down. There's an alarmingly large subset of gamers who either can't or won't do division in their head. Addition and Subtraction is generally the way to go if you want to keep things moving.
    If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •