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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BardGirl

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    Default Re: Ring, boots, and cloak problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Kol Korran View Post
    I would argue that anyone that can make the ring/ boots/ other article that depends on size could reasonably change the size to fit other characters. So i'd say you need the item creation feat to do so. How much should this cost? not sure, but I'd hazard it's not too much... up to 1/20- 1/10 of the original price? I think that would be a fair exchange. for being able to now using the desired item.

    Or you can make a low level spell (0-1st level I'll assume) that can be used for this purpose that characters might take in a wand- instant duration, changes one size category or such? an investment in such a wand could be a wise thing.

    I hope this helps.
    This was my exact thoughts
    It even brings a bit of nice fluff into the world.
    I would say either 1/20 of the price to have a craftsman change the size.
    Or make a level 1, duration: instantaneous, spell that changes the size of magical items.
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Ring, boots, and cloak problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Pippin View Post
    I would think a low level spell with the material component of whatever the ring was made of could be added to the world to fix the problem of going up in size but what would one need to go down sizes not more metal but... how to resize the fing without giving the player the excess metals so as to stop the normal use of using that spell to harvest metals from ores
    I like this idea...
    Second level spell, Resize Item- Material component is whatever the magic item you have is made of. Amount needed scales by the amount of alteration. One size category up needs a little material, two needs a bit more, etc. Make sure the amount needed for the spell is more than you would need to physically get the job done. When you scale the item down, you get no materials back. Say that the magic consumes the material as a fuel source for the process of shrinking the item.
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    nedz's Avatar

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    Default Re: Ring, boots, and cloak problem

    If I am reading the OP correctly, the problem is that the RAW about rings resizing breaks their verisimilitude.

    Now you could just stick to RAW, but that is likely to be unsatisfactory.

    You could try some fudge: The halfling wears it on his thumb, The Orc had it on his little finger, The halfling wears it or on a Hand of Glory, ... or some such idea. But this might be seen as the fudge that it is.

    I think it might be best to go with the players sense of how this works.
    Verisimilitude is possibly more important then the rules, certainly in this case.

    What would be the consequences ?
    The Halfling doesn't get a bonus to some skill, instead he gets a share of the market value when they sell it. This might actually be preferable to the player since it gives the player agency.

    In my experience parties routinely miss up to half the possible loot anyway, so I wouldn't worry about this too much.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Ring, boots, and cloak problem

    Going back to the original question:

    It depends on how hard you want it to be to resize things. If you want it to be difficult and/or expensive, have it require the appropriate Craft Item feat. Beyond or beside that, set a DC to whatever level of impossibility you're comfortable with. Maybe it's an easy job (15) if you have the right Feat, but a bit tricky (25?) otherwise.

    Having a spell that shifts an item by one size category (Somewhere between Shrink Item and Alter Self in terms of effect, except permanent) would be a simple solution - and one that could legitimately be applied to anything else that needs resized. This would give you a way to rescale that fire giant's flaming sword into something a bit easier for your barbarian to use. For something of this magnitude, a lvl 2/3 spell is probably in order.

    Being a bit nicer, if you allow for the magic to be retained, you could probably use a variation of Mending to make magic clothes & jewelry rescale. Tailoring as 0-level, or a higher level version that specifically works for magic items.

    Personally, I prefer using accommodation.
    (That, or imply a Tolkien Sequel Retcon: Tell him that it magically shrinks overnight, almost as if it wants to be worn, and chuckle with sinister undertones.)

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Daemon

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    Default Re: Ring, boots, and cloak problem

    I like the spell addition and the craft abilities these are all great ideas for solving these problems. But I think I like Joe the Rat's version of re-fluffing mending to activate a believable auto-size the best. It easily fixes the all rings are made EXACTLY the same way so they ALL AUTO SIZE problem without forcing the players to take an Obscure homebrew spell with no other practical applications. I think it will work beautifully for my group thank you.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Ring, boots, and cloak problem

    To the OP:

    I think this is being way overthunk(?). Why not just say that the ring was initially intended for a smaller medium creature and that the Orc wore it on his pinky. The halfling could wear the ring on his thumb, or if he really wants perhaps his big toe. I don't believe there is anything stating which digits a ring must be on.

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Ring, boots, and cloak problem

    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    The sizing property allows an item to fit an entirely different category. It's the difference between armor for a human and armor for a giant or a pixie; if the change in size is not at least 100% or so, you don't need the property.
    Yep, TRY putting someone who's 4'1" and someone else who's 7'11" in the same suit of half-plate. Yet in D&D land that NON-MAGICAL half-plate automatically fits them both, the only thing that ever gets resized within a single size category is full plate armor.

    But that half plate made for someone 4'1" tall won't fit someone 3'11" tall. Yeah, right. In practical terms finding an item at random that fits you should be about a 5% chance even for characters of the same size class and a roughly 0.0% chance for other size classes unless you're right on the edge of your size class (in which case you maybe get 2% of small items and 3% of medium fitting).

    This is a problem that has to be solved from level 1 on, the DMG solves it one way, you want a different way, but once you've opened this can of worms it should apply to approximately 100% of found items. So make sure your solution is simple and easy to implement.

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Deepbluediver's Avatar

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    Default Re: Ring, boots, and cloak problem

    The obvious solution is to just have it resize automatically (as practically every other poster has mentioned) but I would have taken a different approach.

    If I can't wear it as a ring, then find a jewelsmith to convert it into a fancy necklace, cloak pin, badge, etc. If I got the item from a Large creature I'd argue I should be allowed to wear it as a bracelet. This is a case of the player needing a little more imagination to work with the DM I think.

    Elf: *sigh* I guess I'll take the ogre-mage's magic staff, maybe I can break it down for the magical components.
    Gnome: And I want his enchanted cloak!
    Elf: What?!? It's gonna drag behind you like the world's worst bridal train!
    Gnome: Nah, I got a plan. Remember that village we saved from goblins a little while back?
    Elf: Yeah....
    Gnome: I bet I can convince the local tailor to restitch this into a wicked awesome suit!
    Elf: But...what...that's not...you....Wait I sec! I want the magic cloak!
    Gnome: Nah-ah-ah! I called dibs! Besides, your big enough I doubt you'd get more than a spiffy set of pants out of it!
    Elf: *grumble mumble grumble*
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  9. - Top - End - #39
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Ring, boots, and cloak problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Pippin View Post
    It easily fixes the all rings are made EXACTLY the same way so they ALL AUTO SIZE problem without forcing the players to take an Obscure homebrew spell with no other practical applications.
    Why wouldn't all rings be made with this handy property? All magic rings are made through the Forge Ring feat, which suggests some standard baseline process. And with most spellcasters being mortal, it's reasonable to assume a magical ring will outlast the person for whom it was crafted. Making rings resize as a standard part of the design lets their owners pass it along to others with minimal fuss.

  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Zeful's Avatar

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    Default Re: Ring, boots, and cloak problem

    Well to bring up an alternate point of view: 90% of all gear shouldn't fit the PCs without some kind of alteration then. Hand and ring sizes, belt and inseam, shirt and shoe size, hat size; they only need just a little bit of variation to make it problematic to fit and wear. Suddenly none of the gear they gather from their enemies can be used, and what can be used are just assorted weapons, so they have to sell all of their loot at 1/2 price, run around to find a blacksmith/armorer to get them custom built gear, run to find various tailors and cobblers for other misc items, and then they need to find the various spellcasters they need to enchant all this stuff for them.

    Congrats, the players have consented to do 4 times the work for not accepting a small inconsequential detail of the setting.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    ElfPirate

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    Default Re: Ring, boots, and cloak problem

    I agree that while things like this add flavor to the campaign, it can also add something that really sells your setting -- consistency. If the world your players live in have consistent rules and they can expect things to work the same way in every situation, then the setting just feels more real.

    That being said, there are some mundane solutions to the problem at hand ():

    1. Wear the ring over a glove. Gloves add bulk to your finger. A gloved halfling thumb could believably be around the size of a bare orc ring finger.

    2. Use a ring spacer or a ring guard (image search for ring spacer or for ring guard). They sell these in modern jewelry stores and they're simple devices. There's no reason they shouldn't exist in your world.

    3. Have a jeweler craft a ring-chain-bracelet (image search for ring chain bracelet) device to basically tie the ring onto his finger. He could probably do this with twine before he gets to town and requests one.

    4. Some combination of the above (e.g. glove + spacer).



    (That being said, *I'm* a fan of any magic item resizing, with the understanding that enchanted items are worth more than their raw materials, broken magic items revert to their original sizes, and trying to sell a huge magic item that shrinks when the vendor grabs it will illicit a response of, "Hey! What are you trying to pull, here!?")

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Ring, boots, and cloak problem

    He's doing something cool with role-playing. Go with it, and improvise.

    "After a little experimentation, you discover that you can wear it over a left glove while picking locks with your right hand. It's still a little big, but it's a small matter to sew it to the glove."

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Knaight's Avatar

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    Default Re: Ring, boots, and cloak problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeful View Post
    Congrats, the players have consented to do 4 times the work for not accepting a small inconsequential detail of the setting.
    Which is even better given that changing the size of things is utterly trivial magic by D&D standards. The spells involved (Shrink Item, Enlarge Person, etc.) are largely low level, and given that having items shrink around you makes them much less prone to falling off by accident, and that they are absurdly expensive to begin with it should be downright standardized.
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  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Thomar_of_Uointer's Avatar

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    Default Re: Ring, boots, and cloak problem

    The 4e Enchant Magic Item ritual lets you resize magic armor as one of its effects. I don't think it would be too difficult to come up with a new ritual or repurpose that ritual to make other magic items fit.

    Arcane casters in most editions of D&D can already use low-level spells to double or halve the size of a creature. I see no reason why, in a world with Medium and Small races, there wouldn't be low-level spells for permanently resizing magic items.

    That said, magic items are dispensed by the GM. It's ultimately up to the GM to decide how this is going to work.
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  15. - Top - End - #45
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    nedz's Avatar

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    Default Re: Ring, boots, and cloak problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomar_of_Uointer View Post
    That said, magic items are dispensed by the GM. It's ultimately up to the GM to decide how this is going to work.
    Unfortunately not, the DM (OP) has already stated that he was quite happy with the RAW about these things resizing; but the players over-rode him. Which is good, IMHO, since the rules should be negotiated by the group rather than imposed.
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  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Kalirren's Avatar

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    Default Re: Ring, boots, and cloak problem

    If the player was concerned about sizing, then 'he should have cut off the orc's hand and called it a hand of glory.
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  17. - Top - End - #47
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Ring, boots, and cloak problem

    Could you imagine the problems that will stem from this.

    DM:You all are walking down the dirt path for a couple hours. Okay, you have to make foritude saves.

    Players: What for?

    DM: You are aren't wearing Properly sized Shoes. So you have to make a Fortitued save versus Blisters. and Possibly Back problems.

    Players: Back Problems?

    DM: Yeah, those Magical Armor and Robes you picked up has made all your Backpacks and pouches not sit right on your backs. Thus thowing of the weight distribution.

    Player: But I am wearing robes? How does that work?

    DM: Oh, yeah those are robes, but they where sized for a woman.
    Oh also, You have also noticed that you lost that magical dagger you found.

    Players: What Why?

    DM: Well, the belt you found to strap the dagger on, wasn't sized right. The Sheath turned upside down while you where walking, and it managed to slide out cause you didn't secure the dagger well enough.



    Not only that, shopping ( which already Takes more then it should) will take even LONGER, cause what are the odds of finding something you like, in your size, in a world where everything has to be costum made. Because remember, D&D is a Midevel-esque setting. Mass producing various types of clothes is a more modern idea.

    Having a spell that resizes your magical iteams is kinda pointless too. If you have that spell, why wouldn't you just cast a permant spell of that into the item in the first place. Espcially if your making items to sell to random people in the first place.

  18. - Top - End - #48
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Ring, boots, and cloak problem

    If those orcs were realy burly, the halfling could always fit the ring on his big toe. Problem solved within given constrains.
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  19. - Top - End - #49
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    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: Ring, boots, and cloak problem

    Really making that big a deal out of this? Either just handwave if or wear it in some alternative way. I've had gnomes folding cloaks to adjust the size or whatever

    but on another note: You do know halflings arn't THAT goddamn small right? thumb smaller than an orcs pinky? how tall is this halfling? 5 inches? honestly, from what I've seen of arts and measurements, a halfling is about the same size as a gnome. Which is about 3 feet, roughly. So pretty much the size of a child. You really think they have fingers that small? Especialyl if we're trying to be realistic, in which case the bones of such thin limbs would have to be so thin that being any melee class would be a ludicrous idea.

    Porportions damnit. If we're gonna be realistic >_>

    Honestly though. Does it really need to be that big a deal? I know that realism is indeed a good thing (a world has to work on it's own grounds) but most people don't play D&D to hear about excotic market values.

    But if you enjoy such details to that degree, then yes. I'd say the enchantment would remain as long as the ring remains intact. Just have any blacksmith adjust it for a minor fee in the next town. There. Not such a big deal, was it?
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  20. - Top - End - #50
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Toofey's Avatar

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    Default Re: Ring, boots, and cloak problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamer Girl View Post
    In most editions of D&D, magic items automatically re-size to fit any wearer. You would need a really Hard Old School game for there to be no re-sizing.


    It's just one of the Game Things, like everyone speaks Common.
    Nope, magic rings have always resized, even in ODAD, they probably do in 3.5 to, not sure though.

    I would point out the classic Fantasy story (LOTR) very specifically has halflings using a ring made for a very large person.
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    Default Re: Ring, boots, and cloak problem

    Next time one of your players nitpicks about his in-game rewards, hit him with a rolled-up newspaper.
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  22. - Top - End - #52
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    QuidEst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Ring, boots, and cloak problem

    It's a human ring- the Orc wore it on his pinky, and the halfling wears it on his thumb. Or he puts it on with a bit of cloth on one side between the ring and his finger to keep it on properly. There are a few simple workarounds for putting on a ring that's too big. Too small is harder, of course.

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