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Thread: Demonbinder

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Demonbinder

    No, not the Nar one, the drow one, from Drow of the Underdark.

    It's a prestige class for Warlocks. Other than fairly easy skill reqs, the class requires drow as race and alignment as chaotic evil. Drow would suck if there wasn't an LA 0 drow racial class in the back. You can even take a level in it whenever you want, get a boost to int and cha, then buy it off, and forget about the rest of that craptacular racial class forever.

    All you really need is one level of Demonbinder, as it gives you class lvl + cha modifer demon binding points and the ability to bind everything from dretch to balor at the first level of the prc. When bound to a fiend, you get some temp HP, resistances, and the ability to spend a point as a swift action to do something that is ok. You also get 100 feet of telepathy.

    The marilith bind is particularly attractive, as it lets you spend a point to eldritch blast as a swift action.

    Binding a fiend takes a full round action and lasts 10 rounds. Points replenish after 5 minutes of rest.

    The rest of the prc levels progress invocations known, damage resistance, and eventual electricity immunity. I don't think progression of invocations would actually boost eldritch blast damage, unfortunately. Which makes more than a dip in this class unattractive.

    So, is it kind of like a weak version of sandshaper for the warlock?

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    Default Re: Demonbinder

    It's over here for reference.

    One thing you didn't mention is that you can only demonbind 1/day/class level. That, plus the full round activation, plus the lack of eldritch blast progression makes it a pretty poor deal.

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    Default Re: Demonbinder

    Technically, the class progesses EB 9/10s, but the fact that the class's main shtick only lasts for 10 rounds, eats up 1 full-round, and is useable at most 10 times a day does not make for much when compared to even just more warlock. This is ignoring the alignment/race restrictions, which are themselves nontrivial.


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    Default Re: Demonbinder

    Quote Originally Posted by eggs View Post
    It's over here for reference.

    One thing you didn't mention is that you can only demonbind 1/day/class level. That, plus the full round activation, plus the lack of eldritch blast progression makes it a pretty poor deal.
    Bah, I missed the times/day. Useless. No wonder I never hear about this class.

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    Default Re: Demonbinder

    I don't mind the lack of eldritch blast as much. I do mind the 10 round limit. It should just be 1/encounter for x rounds per class level. And it should change to a move action when you level up a bit.
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    Default Re: Demonbinder

    All those problems aside, it is certainly very cool. I rather like the class.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spuddles View Post
    Bah, I missed the times/day. Useless. No wonder I never hear about this class.
    Yeah, it's a drag.

    I really like the class and really tried to use it for a while.

    Ended up dropping the idea because the Secrets of Pact Magic 3rd party book did it better.

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    Default Re: Demonbinder

    Well, one thing to notice is that Demonbind is a spell-like ability. It can be Quickened (solving the full-round action issue). Is there an Extend Spell-like Ability feat (there is one for supernatural abilities, there must be one for SLAs)?
    The class hasa lot of problems - plenty of the abilities are melee focused, but the BAB is poor and it has d4 for it's Hit Die. You do get some bonuses to compensate this (temporary hp, damage reduction, etc) but it sure as hell (pun intended) could be better.
    I want it to work, but damn is it hard.

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    Default Re: Demonbinder

    Well, I have a question for you, Spuddles. A couple, actually.

    How much do you want to bind demons, and would you play a homebrew class that can do what the demonbinder does?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drammor View Post
    Well, I have a question for you, Spuddles. A couple, actually.

    How much do you want to bind demons, and would you play a homebrew class that can do what the demonbinder does?
    Lesser Planar Binding meets all my demonbinding needs, really. And Binder. Maybe Pathfinder's Summoner, if I ever get around to looking at their classes.

    Just browsing a book I've never really looked in, and thought I had found the Sandshaper of Warlocking.

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    Default Re: Demonbinder

    Quote Originally Posted by Drammor View Post
    How much do you want to bind demons, and would you play a homebrew class that can do what the demonbinder does?
    malconvoker is also good for making demons into your pokemon, and is not especially difficult to qualify for.

    Spuddles, is you being a warlock set in stone? are you asking about an existing character, or a new one you'd start from scratch with?

    talk to your DM to see if he'll allow you to get in with warlock via the summon swarm invocation or the like.
    EDIT: fixed
    Last edited by Venger; 2012-10-02 at 12:07 AM.
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    Default Re: Demonbinder

    Uhhh, Venger? You quoted my post in your post, and now there doesn't appear to be any continuity in what you said.

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    Default Re: Demonbinder

    Why don't you play a wizard 5/malconvoker 9/fiendbinder 5/tainted scholar 1?

    Fiendbinder gives you.

    BIND FIEND (Su): This is what it's all about, the main feature of the prestige class. By researching the truename of demon or devil you can bind it to your will. This requires ranks in truespeak, and every command you give one of your minions takes a standard action and a truespeak check.The biggest benefit of this is the fiends that you bind don't go away. There is no duration to this ability, and there is no limit on how many fiends you can have bound at one time (barring gold and time). One thing thats important to note is a bound fiend cannot use its summoning abilities, so no chain summoning shenanigans.

    Call Forth Fiend (Sp): This is a neat ability you get at 3rd level, it lets you (with a truespeak check) call a fiend as a standard action. It hangs around for one round per fiendbinder level. You can call forth any fiend on the fiendbinder list. You just have to know it's truename.

    Bind Tormented Soul (Su): You get this ability at 5th level. With a DC 30 truespeak check you, as a swift action, gain the ability to continue to act past 0 hp, and you don't die past -10. This only lasts for 3 rounds, so its more of a stopgap than immortality. One of those things that rare comes in handy, but when it does, it really shines. If you are advancing into epic, this becomes more interesting.

    The malconvoker I will not post all of its abilities. But you should already know them. The important two for me here is,


    Fiendish Legion (Ex): Once you attain 5th level, whenever you use a summon monster spell to summon one or more evil-aligned creatures, you summon one extra creature of the same kind.


    IMPROVED CALLING (Su): At 8th level, your understanding of the ways of fiends shows you how to tempt even more powerful beings into your service. The normal HD limit for your planar ally and planar binding spells (including lesser and greater versions) increases by 2.

    Now add in the implore spell, (it's basically a 9th level planar binding spell from dragon) and you can summon and bind demogorgon (and one of his friends)

    Tainted scholar of course gives you tainted spell casting and blood metamagic.

    If you can get the evil subtype you can rack up as muc taint as you want, giving you Night-infinite spells.
    Last edited by Harry; 2012-10-02 at 12:45 AM.

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    Default Re: Demonbinder

    I think the point's being somewhat missed. But the closest thing I can think of to the "heap of SLAs in a dip" are dips into some of the template classes, but they don't really match the invocation model. Incarnum dips are probably about as close to the mechanics as it gets (going Nomasomatic Chirurgen/Soulcaster, if continued progression matters).
    Last edited by eggs; 2012-10-02 at 01:52 AM.

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    Default Re: Demonbinder

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry View Post
    Why don't you play a wizard 5/malconvoker 9/fiendbinder 5/tainted scholar 1?
    I'm certain I'm missing something, because I can't see how that is relevant to the discussion at hand.

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    Default Re: Demonbinder

    Also, Fiendbinder's Bind Fiend is quite a lot worse than just casting Planar Binding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell View Post
    I'm certain I'm missing something, because I can't see how that is relevant to the discussion at hand.
    Oh I was just giving him a better way to summon demons then just planar binding.

    Or malconvoker by it's self.

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    Default Re: Demonbinder

    Ummm OP didn't want to bind fiends, he just (mistakingly) thought Demonbinder was a good option for Warlocks and apparently wanted to share it with the community.

    Even then, the Demonbinder "bind" isn't a [Summoning] or [Calling] effect, it "fuse" you with the Demon getting you some abilities
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    Default Re: Demonbinder

    I've got a Drow encounter in an upcoming campaign all about dark demonic stuff and I think I might steal this PrC for the leader of the bad guys. I'll have to rewrite what he gets, since most of the bound abilities aren't good for what I need, but this is a cool flavor option that will fit well within my campaign world.


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    Default Re: Demonbinder

    Here's how I can help:
    • IIRC, there's a Lesser Drow in one of the Forgotten Realms books that's LA +0. So that solves the main entry problem with the PrC.
    • Demonbind is a Spell-like ability. Which means that it can be effected by Quicken Spell-like Ability feat, which allows you to use it as an Immediate Action 3 times per day.
    • You can progress the class abilities (and your Invocation progression) using Uncanny Trickster or Legacy Champion, which would help with the BAB and Skill point deficiencies.
    • You only need 1 level of Warlock to enter the class, as you can get 2 other Invocations with Feats, or by multiclassing with Dragonfire Adept, which also has access to Invocations.


    Having said that, I think you're probably better off with Incarnum (or any full caster), which can duplicate pretty much all of his class abilities. Just the Vitality Belt soulmeld gives you meldshaper * essentia bonus hit points, which is a lot more then you'll get from any Demonbind.

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    Default Re: Demonbinder

    You don't even need lesser drow, half-drow qualifies due to drow blood.
    It looks like demonbind has no CL listed, so quickening is going to be a DM's call.
    Uncanny Trickster/Legacy Champion really do help here, since it takes you away from the horrible, horrible chassis.

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    Default Re: Demonbinder

    Quote Originally Posted by Person_Man View Post
    Here's how I can help:
    • You only need 1 level of Warlock to enter the class, as you can get 2 other Invocations with Feats, or by multiclassing with Dragonfire Adept, which also has access to Invocations.


    Having said that, I think you're probably better off with Incarnum (or any full caster), which can duplicate pretty much all of his class abilities. Just the Vitality Belt soulmeld gives you meldshaper * essentia bonus hit points, which is a lot more then you'll get from any Demonbind.
    Wouldn't a combat class work instead since high BAB is good for when you bind the demon? Like Crusader or Hexblade (if TOB is a no go)
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