4E : build help: Jason Statham - Rogue? Monk?

[SylvanPrincess]

Hey all! Youve always been there for me playground, and so i come to yous guys again ;)

A friend o mine has insane rolled numbers, and wants to play an unarmed rogue that is a lot like jason statham in te movies - the british bruce willis ive always felt

He really wants it to be a rogue, what are his options? We're starting at level 1, a sample build would be awesome too. He isnt a forum junkie like me, so im bringing it to you for him :) thanks!

[Ashdate]

To make it work would require a selection of feats. The most obvious that comes to mind is "Master of the Fist" (Dragon Magazine 404); you would need this as a multiclass character to get a decent bonus to hit and damage (+3 and 1d8); otherwise you're attacking unarmed, which is an unimpressive +2 to hit and 1d6 damage, and only if you use a spiked gauntlet.

The biggest RAW problem with unarmed attack however, is that you can't "enchant" your fist (i.e. an unarmed attack); Monk's get around this by using "implements" to determine their bonus to hit/damage, but an unarmed Rogue has no recourse unless you "enchant" a Spike Gauntlet (which as mentioned, is unimpressive, and technically would replace the unarmed attack to my knowledge). That said, a DM can work around this in a number of ways (for example, perhaps the DM gives the player enchanted "spiked gauntlets", but allows the +3 prof /1d8 dmg to override the gauntlet stats).

If he wanted to act like a martial artist, consider taking a Tempest Fighter instead, with lots of two-weapon powers. This allows them to "dual wield" their fists, which is pretty awesome in my book. You'll be no Ranger in terms of damage output, but it's a fun concept. One of my players is doing this in the game I just started.

Here's a sample build, if you don't have access to certain materials let me know and I'll find some alternatives. Note that this is hardly "optimized", but it sounds kind of fun (and in the theme of a martial arts brawler):

Fighter 1
Race: Human (Option: Heroic Effort, HotFL)
Class Options: Combat Agility (Martial Power 2), Tempest Technique (Martial Power 1)
Bonus Language: Common (kicking butt is his "default" language)
Theme: Mercenary (Dragon 399)
Background Hellion (+2 Athletics, Martial Power 2)

Scores: Str 18 (16 +2), Con 13, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 11

HP: 28 (Bloodied 14; Surge value: 7, healing surges: 10)
AC 17, Fort 17, Ref 15, Will 11
Initiative: +3
Speed: 5

Trained Skills: Acrobatics +10, Athletics +9, Endurance +6, Intimidate +5, Streetwise +5

At-Will: Dual Strike
At-Will: Slash and Pummel
Encounter 1: Bash and Pinion
Daily 1: Seize and Stab

Level 1 Feat: Master of the Fist (Multiclass Monk, Dragon 404)
Human Bonus Feat: Versatile Expertise (Unarmed Strike and Ki Focus)

Equipment: Adventuring Kit, Chainmail, 45g. Note: for Character builder, equip two spiked gauntlets, and pretend they're +3 prof, 1d8 weapons.

[Tegu8788]

I'd strongly recommend making him a hybrid monk, and taking the Unarmored Combatant Hybrid Talent feat. Your stats line up perfectly if you use Monk Features from the Elemental Chaos. Dex, Str, Cha, the three stats I'd say line up with that Bond. Which allows for quite a number of races you can pick. This build would actually be much more Monk than rogue, but that's what he actually seems to want. The Rogue feel will certainly still be there, with plenty of skills to play with. The best way you could optimize it would be to take minor action rogue powers that allow you to double tip into striker features. The rogue also has powers that use a ranged weapon, which you can refluff as Bond's classic gun.

Can you tell us any more? Racial preferences, numbers rolled, how he wants to fight. Roleplaying is, in many ways, mechanic independent, so what crunch he needs is mostly going to be roll play.

And what sources can you use? Based on that info, I can throw a build together for him.

[neonchameleon]

He really wants it to be a rogue, what are his options? We're starting at level 1, a sample build would be awesome too. He isnt a forum junkie like me, so im bringing it to you for him :) thanks!

You can't technically have this work - rogues have the rogue weapons limit on Sneak Attack, and a rogue who isn't sneak attacking is not doing very well. Of course a decent experienced DM will allow this as a houserule.

Three ways I can think of to make something like the person he's looking at work strictly under the Rules as Written:

1: Brawler Fighter. Which is strength based sword and fist or even bare knuckle brawler, and hit peoples heads into walls or joint lock them.
2: Monk. Wire-fu master probably isn't what you are looking for but you can keep the wire-fu toned down and instead be a strong and slippery unarmed fighter.
3: Executioner Assassin with the Master of The Fist feat already mentioned. This is very, very roguelike without having to worry about silly restrictions on sneak attack. The odd thing is which weapons do you focus on (would a garotte as a special trick do better, or would a spray of shuriken?) and you get poisons as a special thing to do.

Tell me which sounds better and I'll post a build.

The biggest RAW problem with unarmed attack however, is that you can't "enchant" your fist (i.e. an unarmed attack);[/qu Monk's get around this by using "implements" to determine their bonus to hit/damage,

The way round this is to use Ki Focusses which count for any weapon you happen to be using.

Why does he want to be a rogue? And how does his character approach the world? Because that determines your class.

[vasharanpaladin]

Start rogue. MC monk via Master of the Fist gets monk unarmed strike. Piercing Palm feat allows monk unarmed strike to be used with melee rogue powers and sneak attack.

What do I win?

[Badgerish]

Start rogue. MC monk via Master of the Fist gets monk unarmed strike. Piercing Palm feat allows monk unarmed strike to be used with melee rogue powers and sneak attack.

What do I win?

You get Jason Statham with knives!


That is probably the best 'Jason Statham as a Rogue' option, although I would prefer to see a strength-based build.
EDIT: Riposte Strike. This build must include Riposte strike, it's so damn Jason-Statham-y

str/dex Barbarian, with the 'Whirling Slayer' option, Master of the of Fist (MC Monk) and focusing on the two-weapon attacks would be very, very mobile and deal lots of smaller hits.

[vasharanpaladin]

Easy fix, just use Brutal Scoundrel.

[polity4life]

I think the bigger question is, "Why is a game-breaking build allowed in this game?"

You have some great build suggestions already that sound really fun, so I'm going to add some silly rules for the hell of it.

1) If he makes an awesome one-liner before he attacks, he gets +1 damage to that attack for the Heroic tier, +2 for Paragon, +4 for Epic.

2) Permanent +10 bonus to Intimidation.

3) He starts with 5 Action Points.