Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Gender
    Male

    Default My small dual weilding fix.

    One of the problems that plagues all editions of D&D is the lack of decent dual weilding rules. In fact dual weilding was initially considered so potentially powerful that it was deliberately made ineffective. I say no more of this, let's have some attempt at proper dual weilding in Dungons and Dragons! So with all that out of the way these are my simple little dual weilding rules.

    "A good old one-two knock-out punch." When making an attack in melee a character may follow through with another attack at a -3 penalty. However this off-hand attack comes into play only if the first strike hits.

    "Two halves of a single weapon. Don't think of them as separate, because they're not. They're just two different parts of the same whole." Any character with at least a 13 to Dexterity can attack with two weapons in one attack. When doing this the attacker makes two to-hit rolls and choses the lower of the two, inflicting damage equal to both weapons if he hits. He instead uses the average of the to attack rolls at Dexterity 16 and makes only one hit roll at a Dexterity of 18+. This is the default weapon style for the hook sword.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Mann View Post
    It's worse than the time some friends used a silver piece, a platinum piece, a delayed blast fireball and a scroll of passwall to make a nuclear explosion in a game...
    Quote Originally Posted by nagora View Post
    Chatter is usually a sign that it's time to break out the Lego pirates and start firing marbles at each other's ships instead of role playing. Some nights, we're just not in the mood!

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Amechra's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Where I live.

    Default Re: My small dual weilding fix.

    I rather like these. I rather like these a lot.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: My small dual weilding fix.

    Thank you for the complement Amechra.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Mann View Post
    It's worse than the time some friends used a silver piece, a platinum piece, a delayed blast fireball and a scroll of passwall to make a nuclear explosion in a game...
    Quote Originally Posted by nagora View Post
    Chatter is usually a sign that it's time to break out the Lego pirates and start firing marbles at each other's ships instead of role playing. Some nights, we're just not in the mood!

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Orc in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2008

    Default Re: My small dual weilding fix.

    You can simplify your idea and just roll once for every attack. If you hit do damage with both weapons. If miss with none. The damage output would be close to the one of a two handed weapon. Some special rules are needed for critical hits and sneak attacks or any per hit bonus.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    gr8artist's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Homebrew

    Default Re: My small dual weilding fix.

    I think the fear with TWF is that it allows you to place twice the enchantment bonuses on your attacks.
    My Homebrew ~ Criticism appreciated Amazing avatar by Ceika
    The Witherlands Campaign - Survival in a traditional but post-apocalyptic setting.
    Advice appreciated, especially on our houserules. Our recruiting is complete, and we will be starting soon.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Wyntonian's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: My small dual weilding fix.

    Quote Originally Posted by gr8artist View Post
    I think the fear with TWF is that it allows you to place twice the enchantment bonuses on your attacks.
    You still need to pay twice as much, which is actually another downside to dual-wielding. That "fear" died within a couple months of 3.5 being out.
    Guess who's good at avatars? Thormag. That's who.

    A Campaign Setting more than a year in the making, Patria!

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Near Atlanta,GA USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: My small dual weilding fix.

    Rogues are generally considered to NEED to TWF to be competitive from what I hear.

    Other than that... the first option needs to specify that this applies only to standard action attacks rather than full attacks (unless you decide to kill the TWF chain entirely) and that the second attack must be with a different hand then made the first attack.

    I assume the two options you give are NOT meant be to used on the same turn?
    Best homebrew:
    Grace-Gift - Truly Defensive base class, Falling Anvil Discipline - Loony Slapstick as Martial Art, Mepholk - Snuggly skunk-people. , Wing Dragon Masters of flight Comment HERE, Organ Undead Mega-Thread livers, skins, etc.
    Filk: 4000 Years(to live)
    Running: Ruceeglaelsktinag: "Justifiable Genocide", Contradiction in terms? IC OOC Active Map: None.
    For everything else see: Full list of Homebrew.
    My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Deepbluediver's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    The US of A

    Default Re: My small dual weilding fix.

    @Agrippa
    Are these supposed to be feats? Or simply options you can take while in combat at any time?

    One-two punch seems fine.

    The second ability/maneuver, however, seems like you have two sentences describing one thing, and then two sentences describing something else entirely. I honestly have no idea what you mean here.


    Quote Originally Posted by gr8artist View Post
    I think the fear with TWF is that it allows you to place twice the enchantment bonuses on your attacks.
    Yeah, this is something I definitely need to keep in mind for my eventual weapon fix.
    Last edited by Deepbluediver; 2012-10-06 at 09:00 AM.
    "A man is known by the company he organizes." -Ambrose Bierce

    Homebrew Extended Signature!

    Progress in my Core rebalance project: 9 of 11 classes complete
    Druid, Fighter, Cleric, Rogue, Ranger, Wizard, Sorcerer, Monk & Paladin

    Magic Fix: spell rewrites paused; rules under revision


    Non-core stuff I want to take a crack at rewriting: Healer, Warlock, Ninja, Samurai, Artificer, Soulborn Incarnum, psionics, bloodlines, and the item-crafting system

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: My small dual weilding fix.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    Rogues are generally considered to NEED to TWF to be competitive from what I hear.

    Other than that... the first option needs to specify that this applies only to standard action attacks rather than full attacks (unless you decide to kill the TWF chain entirely) and that the second attack must be with a different hand then made the first attack.

    I assume the two options you give are NOT meant be to used on the same turn?
    I'd say that they can both be used in full attacks but never in the same round. Yes, I am going out of my way to kill the stupid TWF feat chain. Now I just need a wooden stake, a mallet, an axe and some communion wafers to stuff in it's mouth so it'll stay dead.
    Last edited by Agrippa; 2012-11-25 at 03:43 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Jane_Smith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Texas, America
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: My small dual weilding fix.

    Pros and Cons of TWF;

    Pros

    - Double the enchantment bonuses for offense.

    - Double on hit effects like sneak attack damage dice, double chance of crits, ability to possibly apply 2 doses of poison, double crippling strike, etc.

    - Higher chance to hit the enemy at least once with a flurry of attacks, so missing once or twice is not a huge deal.

    Cons

    - Low accuracy chance even with high ability scores, obscenely so with one-handed weapons in both hands. Those who are "Feat starved" will find themselves only using light weapons with twf, which do far less damage (especially on crits) then a two hander.

    - Enchantments are incredibly expensive at mid/late game. Where a barbarian, etc, will have a fully decked out two handed weapon, a rogue will likely only have the barest of enchantments on multiple weapons.

    - Heavily feat dependent. You need two-weapon fighting, improved two-weapon fighting, greater two-weapon fighting, and perfect two weapon fighting just to get 4 attacks with your off hand to match your main hand. Ontop of that to use larger weapons without making yourself never hit you need over-sized two-weapon fighting and weapon focus/etc. Whereas a two-handed weapon user only needs the basics such as cleave, great cleave, power attack and they are set for life.

    - Smaller weapons means enemies can disarm and sunder them easier then a two handed weapon.

    - Standard action attacks still only use one of your weapons, and you only get to use one of your weapons for attacks of opportunity, smites, maneuvers, etc. Making two-handed weapons far more superior for such scenarios.

    - Damage reduction is your bane. A two-handed weapon does all its burst damage each blow, whereas each individual attack of a two-weapon user is adsorbed by the reduction, making rangers/rogues literally incapable of fighting golems, etc alone or without a "get out of jail free card" to bypass the golems defenses, like a rod of control.


    Overall; two-weapon fighting hits less often, deals less damage (almost/literally no damage to dr-creatures), costs twice as much, and is EXTREMELY feat dependent then a two handed weapon. The only way a two-weapon user can even come even close to a two-handed user is if its a rogue who lands a sneak attack on every attack they land, and then again many monsters and late-game enemies are immune to crits and sneak attacks, so a simple enchantment or construct/etc just gives no ****s. Ontop of that, a thug rogue can just use a two-handed weapon and still be better off then a two-weapon using rogue!!!

    Twf needs all the buffs it can get in my opinion, which is why I homebrew imp/greater/perfect two-weapon fighting feats as a single scaling feat and allow people with two-weapon fighting feat to gain there full str bonus to off hand as well as the penalty reductions. And I like the changes above for combat options. :D

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •