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    Default Worst Instances of Vampirism in media

    I hate it when Vampires are essentially superpowers in media.

    So its not even a curse, its a bag of goodies.

    I don't mind changes to the mythos, but if your going to make them immune to sunlight you may as well just call them supermen.

    Its a CURSE! If not obvious right now, but then very obvious in a hundred years. It should cause the recipient to suffer!

    What are some of the worst examples of this in media (Excluding the one that starts with a T. Its like "the Cake is a lie" by this point").

    Discworld has some of this, but its treated tongue and cheek, so no offence.

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    Default Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media

    Most powerful vampires I can think of right now are in Hellsing. Alucard is ridiculously powerful in there. Indestructible, carries his personal army around in his body and tons of other goodies.
    "You raise your baton. The glass kettle drums pound out the the overture. Your vision clouds with blood. You wipe it away and continue. The xylophonist's hair bursts into a violet flame, but he continues playing. He's either a consummate professional or very drunk indeed..."

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    I want more mwa-ha-haaa and much less boo-hoo-hoo.

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    Default Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media

    I was under the impression that Discworld played it fairly straight, with vampires choosing to lose some of their vulnerabilities also losing some of their advantages.

    In Twilight's case, I believe the author stated she didn't do any research on vampires and just made them up as she saw fit.

    On other fictional vampires:

    The Anne Rice vampires, with one notable exception, are under no illusion it's a curse. The exception is Lestat, who revels in his vampirism (even while retaining his vulnerabilities, at least pre-Queen of the Damned).

    Similarly, you have the old World of Darkness vampires with various vulnerabilities, but only the really powerful ones losing the traditional sunlight vulnerabilities (the less said about the live action series, the better, which would definitely fall under your 'worst instances').
    I'm not sure whether the Kuei-jin (oriental vampires) from oWoD would fall under your 'worst instance' category, since they're just basically weird.

    Finally, there's the old Hammer horror films which sometimes use various old legends of vampires as their inspiration instead. In one notable film, Captain Kronos - Vampire Hunter, the eponymous protagonist spends about the first half of the film trying to work out which type of vampire he's hunting since "as many species of vampire as there are beasts of prey".
    Another Hammer film (I think) I forget the name of, has a small family of vampires which are immune to fire and sunlight, but are afflicted by apathy and indolence (I remember they still retained other vulnerabilities, but I can't recall what).

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Most powerful vampires I can think of right now are in Hellsing. Alucard is ridiculously powerful in there. Indestructible, carries his personal army around in his body and tons of other goodies.
    I think there's a difference between 'ridiculously powerful' and 'ignoring all their lore'.
    I've got no problem with accepting Alucard as a 'proper' vampire as rather than mope around bewailing his cursed existence, he revels in what he is and the power he has, with Integra barely keeping him on his leash at times.
    Last edited by Brother Oni; 2012-10-01 at 06:48 AM.

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    Default Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media

    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    I hate it when Vampires are essentially superpowers in media.

    So its not even a curse, its a bag of goodies.

    I don't mind changes to the mythos, but if your going to make them immune to sunlight you may as well just call them supermen.
    *couDraculagh*

    Anyway, there is clearly one adaptation more terrible than any other...

    Tomb of Dracula
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    Default Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media

    The sunlight vulnerability, as far as I know, only came about with Hollywood movies. I can't think of any vampire legends where they are affected much by it. (Though they often only come out at night, so it might just not be mentioned).
    "You raise your baton. The glass kettle drums pound out the the overture. Your vision clouds with blood. You wipe it away and continue. The xylophonist's hair bursts into a violet flame, but he continues playing. He's either a consummate professional or very drunk indeed..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    I want more mwa-ha-haaa and much less boo-hoo-hoo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Friv View Post
    *couDraculagh*
    Yeah. Im a total ditz.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Friv View Post
    *couDraculagh*
    Not really. Taking the novel version, while powerful, he still has limitations (sunlight, inability to cross running water, must sleep on earth from his homeland, etc).
    Even the Bram Stoker's Dracula version retains most of the traditional weaknesses, such as consecrated items.

    The Blade version retains the sunlight flaw though (however his physical capabilities are significantly upped).

    The Wes Craven version turns him into Judas Iscariot and makes his weakness hanging (and massive exsanguination), although retains notable depictions of vampire lore, such as knots and the compulsion to count things.

    Most of the other depictions I can think of, plays it mostly straight.

    Actually, there's the Sesame Street Count von Count - no vulnerability to sunlight, no requirement to feed on blood. About the only thing that makes him a vampire is the compulsion to count and his looks.

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    Default Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media

    What about Count Chocula?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Oni View Post
    Not really. Taking the novel version, while powerful, he still has limitations (sunlight, inability to cross running water, must sleep on earth from his homeland, etc).
    Even the Bram Stoker's Dracula version retains most of the traditional weaknesses, such as consecrated items.
    To be sure, Dracula was weakened by sunlight in the Stoker novel. He was reduced in overall power and limited to what I'm sure a particular Whedonian vampire would term "a few gypsy tricks."

    Plus, in that novel, Dracula was pretty much a metaphorical cypher for other things first, and a vampire later.
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    Default Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media

    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    Discworld has some of this, but its treated tongue and cheek, so no offence.
    the funny thing with Discworld is that any given race is "the toughest around" at any given time only when it happens to be the villain of that book.
    werewolf are almost indestructible in one book..in the next it's trolls who are basically impervious to anything because fangs and such don't really pierce stone.. then the elves..then it's vampires who are tough enough to do untold ammounts of damage.. until they're eaten by a cat.
    I don't know if it's even possible to assign stats to the various races as to determine who is toughest..because it chances depending on plot needs.
    Last edited by dehro; 2012-10-01 at 07:55 AM.
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    Default Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media

    There is a series of books called The Cleric Quintet. In the last book,
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    Kierkan Rufo becomes a master vampire.
    Generally speaking the vamps are fairly standard, but the master vamp named in the spoiler can turn into green mist to avoid physical damage, can summon wolves, can create either vamps subserviant to him, or turn those he kills into zombies. He was even able to
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    take over the edificant library, pretty much THE holiest spot in lore at the time. It would be like walking into the vatican and declaring, "This place belongs to satan now", AND MAKING IT HAPPEN! He desecrated it so completely, even the most powerful priest of the main god the place was devoted to, could barely even use his holy power inside.
    He was even able to stand up to daylight during the grand finale. Simply because he was that damn powerful. Oh yeah, he took at least one magical and blessed weapon to the heart, and proceeded to remove it from his body by forcing the arm of the person holding it to remove it. Said person was physically the strongest being not a vamp in the quintet, and he totally overpowered this person capable of shattering massive stone blocks with their face, while having a magic dagger in his heart.

    All that being said, the lesser vamps had the standard weaknesses to sunlight, holy water, blessed items, but the master was basically able to either ignore, or just be somewhat weakened by any of them.
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    Default Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media

    Quote Originally Posted by dehro View Post
    the funny thing with Discworld is that any given race is "the toughest around" at any given time only when it happens to be the villain of that book.
    werewolf are almost indestructible in one book..in the next it's trolls who are basically impervious to anything because fangs and such don't really pierce stone.. then the elves..then it's vampires who are tough enough to do untold ammounts of damage.. until they're eaten by a cat.
    I don't know if it's even possible to assign stats to the various races as to determine who is toughest..because it chances depending on plot needs.
    The thing with Discworld is that the villain of each book tends to just be the Worst Person out of their respective species/profession, and they tend to kick ass because of their attitude and Villainous Plan as much as their capabilities. Not to mention the needs of narrative causality. Also, most of the time when a particular issue is made with someone's species abilities, it's usually the first time they're introduced to the reader or the point of view characters, or the first time they're seen in full power mode, before the cynicism of the Discworld's general population gets its turn to figure out how to mug them.


    On a different subject that's still not really on-topic, I always thought of Twipires more as blood-drinking animate statues than "vampires". Doesn't make the books any better, but...
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    Default Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media

    Vampirism is a curse, but not always to the one who becomes a vampire. In many legends, the vampire was essentially a possessed corpse, with no connection to the personality of the human when he was alive - the vampire instead existed to torment former family and relatives of the deceased. But these sorts of vampires were closer to "demons" or "zombies" than the modern vampire archetype.

    Back on topic, I can't name any specific vampire story I hate, but I hate it when vampires are used as trite sexual methaphors or titillation - forgetting their other identities as cannibalistic predators and rotting corpses. Basically, everytime a vampire is treated with "ooh, how dark and sexy" instead of "Jesus Christ it's a disgusting monster trying to eat me!", I'll start rolling my eyes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen_Feet View Post
    I can't name any specific vampire story I hate
    I can.. Twilight
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen_Feet View Post
    Vampirism is a curse, but not always to the one who becomes a vampire. In many legends, the vampire was essentially a possessed corpse, with no connection to the personality of the human when he was alive - the vampire instead existed to torment former family and relatives of the deceased. But these sorts of vampires were closer to "demons" or "zombies" than the modern vampire archetype.
    No thats totally also alright. Curse a city to fall to an vampire plauge: Cool.

    Back on topic, I can't name any specific vampire story I hate, but I hate it when vampires are used as trite sexual methaphors or titillation - forgetting their other identities as cannibalistic predators and rotting corpses. Basically, everytime a vampire is treated with "ooh, how dark and sexy" instead of "Jesus Christ it's a disgusting monster trying to eat me!", I'll start rolling my eyes.
    It gets unbearable when they even start saying "Its US that are the monsters! The vampires just want to be wuved!"

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    I am fine with vampires as sexual metaphor, I am fine with vampires as superpower, and I am fine with different kinds of vampires. What I am not fine with is the manga "Priest", in which vampires were never human. They're just monsters that roam around in the desert or something. Underworld kinda gets a little of this nuisance from me too, suggesting that a vampire is just like a werewolf only bat instead of wolf, and not shapeshifting, and vulnerable to sunlight instead of silver, but somehow they're still both two lineages from a single progenitor. W/e.

    Dresden Files has a pretty screwy vampire situation from what I hear. Supposedly the Red Court are actually these giant bat monsters who wear human skin as a disguise? And the White Court drink emotions instead of blood, but somehow this still kills people? I don't get it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    It gets unbearable when they even start saying "Its US that are the monsters! The vampires just want to be wuved!"
    I think that basically comes from people starting to use vampires as trite metaphors for sexual minorities, as opposed to their original "modern" role, starting with Stoker, as trite metaphors for sexual criminals.

    And I guess it also comes from just a general use of vampires and other supernatural folklore lately as just people, but different. Vampires are alien, other, and exotic while still looking basically human, which inevitably results in groups of people either hating them or finding them obsessively fascinating.
    Last edited by Nerd-o-rama; 2012-10-01 at 08:55 AM.
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    Default Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media

    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Dresden Files has a pretty screwy vampire situation from what I hear. Supposedly the Red Court are actually these giant bat monsters who wear human skin as a disguise? And the White Court drink emotions instead of blood, but somehow this still kills people? I don't get it.
    Read the books and you will understand. It started out as the author essentially playing with all the different "versions" of vampires and throwing them all into the setting, and ended up working out really well in the grand scheme of the plot. It's far less non-sensical than it seems at first blush.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    I think that basically comes from people starting to use vampires as trite metaphors for sexual minorities, as opposed to their original "modern" role, starting with Stoker, as trite metaphors for sexual criminals.
    I'm comfortable with the idea either that vampires represent the seductive appeal of forbidden fruit or that they use sexuality as a lure to capture their prey. Any variation of the vampire sex motif is pretty cool with me, though presentation is everything.

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    Default Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media

    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Dresden Files has a pretty screwy vampire situation from what I hear. Supposedly the Red Court are actually these giant bat monsters who wear human skin as a disguise? And the White Court drink emotions instead of blood, but somehow this still kills people? I don't get it.
    I think Dresden Files does vampires pretty well. There are several different groups of them but all of them are essentially humans possessed by a different type of demon.

    Black Court vampires are the classic corpse vampires, they are the most powerful vampires physically and magically but also the most susceptible to the standard vampire weaknesses. They are almost extinct ever since the White Court got tired of their **** and had Bram Stoker write Dracula to disseminate info on how to kill them.

    Red Court vampires are blood drinkers. They are the most numerous type and basically farm humans for blood and converts. They look human but that is only a flesh mask they wear. Underneath that they are indeed disgusting, bloated vampire bat monsters. They also have a narcotic saliva that keeps their prey compliant.

    White Court vampires are emotion eaters. They are the most humanlike of all the vampire types we know about so far and are consequently the weakest. Because they are so humanlike though they don't have to worry about sunlight or crosses or any of the usual things that off vampires. Each House of WCV feeds on a different emotion, House Raith feed on lust, House Malvora feed on fear, and House Skavis feed on despair. They don't necessarily have to kill their victims when feeding on them but it is apparently a much better meal if they do.

    There is also a Jade Court but we don't really know anything about them yet. Supposedly they will be making an appearance eventually.

    It's basically a kitchen sink way of including all sorts of different depictions of vampires into one setting. Personally I think it works very well. One thing it never forgets though is that they are monsters, even the sexy ones are Monsters with a capital M.
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    Default Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media

    Monsters I agree with, but it annoys me when they have to be made by demons. Can't there be other kinds of evil that have nothing to do with Hell? The vampire strikes me as being very much a mundane terror, like an evolutionary mutant who preys on humanity so that we no longer dominate the ecosystem (and is in turn preyed on by something else, possibly werewolves, which in turn are preyed on by something still nastier). All of which doesn't necessarily make them supernatural, let alone extraplanar. Demons should be their own thing, not automatically having their fingers in all the other pies.
    Last edited by willpell; 2012-10-01 at 09:24 AM.

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    I read a harry potter fanfic that made vamps the disgusting cursed wretches they are. First off, they are animated dead bodies. That means they rot. So unless they hang out in the desert, they get moldy, and nasty and eventually they fall apart. Thats the basis there for the "cant cross running water" thing. They are insanely terrified of getting wet as that will speed up their eventual death by rotting. Its not a huge help to whoever they are attacking right then, but toss a bucket of water on them before you die. That way they will fall apart faster later on. :p
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    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Monsters I agree with, but it annoys me when they have to be made by demons. Can't there be other kinds of evil that have nothing to do with Hell?
    Demon in Dresden Files is a pretty generic catch all term for bad supernatural being from the Nevernever who isn't fae. Hell has little to do with it in this case, although they do have their own demons in the form of Fallen Angels.
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    In the Dresden Files, there are huge numbers of different supernatural creatures. There are three or four different creatures all called "Vampires" by mortals, but they have little in common and are not directly related.

    Black Court Vampires are intelligent, rotting corpses animated by dark magic. They are extremely strong, vulnerable to sunlight, holy items and so on, they can create thralls, and they eat flesh.

    Red Court Vampires are slimy, disgusting monsters that vaguely resemble bats. They can coat themselves in a human skin as a disguise, but physical damage or sunlight damages that skin. They drink blood, and their saliva is an addictive drug to humans.

    White Court vampires look physically human, except when they draw on their power, which makes their eyes and skin glow silver. They are humans possessed by a supernatural creature similar to a succubus. They have the power to cause a specific emotion in humans (lust, fear or ... something third, I forgot) depending on their family. As long as you feel that emotion, they can drain your life energy, until you die. Fun fact: they run the US porn industry.
    Last edited by Eldan; 2012-10-01 at 09:26 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    I don't mind changes to the mythos, but if your going to make them immune to sunlight you may as well just call them supermen.
    Complain to Bram Stoker then.

    Vampires are monsters that prey upon humanity. Them being supermen is rather a return to form in my book. The curse was rather more existential to begin with, they weren't cursed to be pitied or punished or whatever, they were a curse upon their prey and upon your soul should you become one of them.

    (Also most powerful vamp... probably Evangeline A.K. McDowell... Alucard is kinda lacking in firepower)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayonet Priest View Post
    Demon in Dresden Files is a pretty generic catch all term for bad supernatural being from the Nevernever who isn't fae. Hell has little to do with it in this case, although they do have their own demons in the form of Fallen Angels.
    That gets confusing sometimes but Dresden Files' Hell is pretty much just Fallen Angels. Demons are just evil or non-sentient and hungry monsters.
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    Default Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media

    No, Hell in the Dresdenverse does have Demons.

    Hell = Demons and Fallen Angels. Remember Chauncy the informant demon?

    Nevernever = Fae, Spirits and occasionally Ghosts (either of which can be more powerful than demons).

    Outside = Outsiders (duh).

    Any of which can be equally malevolent, though the only place you're likely to find something genuinely benevolent (to some degree) is the Nevernever.
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2012-10-01 at 10:24 AM.
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    It's also worth noting that Red and Black Court vampires used to be human. The disguise that Red Court vamps wear resembles the human they were before the change.
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    Default Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media

    Quote Originally Posted by Soras Teva Gee View Post
    Complain to Bram Stoker then.
    You have been ninjaad and denied already.

    Vampires are monsters that prey upon humanity.
    Except they used to be human. Thats my point.

    Them being supermen is rather a return to form in my book.
    Not realy. Its part of the seduction, but its not just supermen.

    upon your soul
    Exactly what I mean.

    I don't mind superpowerful vampires if there is a reason why they are that.

    If they are meant to bring suffering to others I understand why they would need powers. If they are meant to suffer themselves then they should be cursed.

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    Default Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media

    Gankutsuou which is an anime retelling of the Count of Monte Cristo sett in the 51st century made the Count into practically a vampire. Unfortunately it made him a worse character than the book. Sometimes trying to make something more cool only makes it worse.

    It isn't a bad anime or a bad retelling of the dumas story but the vampire bits are just too much and not useful and thus detract from the story.
    Stupendous Man drawn by Linklele

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