Results 91 to 120 of 138
-
2012-10-06, 11:47 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
- Location
- Germany
Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media
Without thinking of any specific sources, I'd say the defining traits of vampires being drinking blood, turning the living into vampires, and being killed by sunlight or a stake in the heart.
Also hating garlic, but that's such a minor thing that I wouldn't call it defining, just very common.We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.
Spriggan's Den Heroic Fantasy Roleplaying
-
2012-10-06, 11:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
- Location
- Pacific Northwest
- Gender
Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media
I always thought the Ringworld vampires were an interesting spin on Vampirism. It's been a while since I've read it, but I recall them as having a hypnotic song/scent type thing that made anyone that heard/smelled it want to rish. That's how they'd catch their prey - with their pants down.
"We have sent many to Hell, to smooth our way," said I, "and we are standing yet and holding blades. What more?"- Roger Zelazny, This Immortal
Avatar Image: The Great Wave off Kanagawa by Hokusai; bitmap version by me.
Spoiler: PbP Games
-
2012-10-06, 12:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Location
- Ēast Seaxna rīc
- Gender
Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media
"that nighted, penguin-fringed abyss" - At The Mountains of Madness, H.P. Lovecraft
When a man decides another's future behind his back, it is a conspiracy. When a god does it, it's destiny.
-
2012-10-06, 01:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media
I'd say Vampires that feed off Life-Force itself and other spins are common enough that I wouldn't personally limit it to blood as such.
Undead creatures that feed parasitically on the Living and usually have strong thematic link to the Night. Sunlight, Stakes to the heart etc are less important. Garlic is rarely anything more than a gag.
-
2012-10-06, 02:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2012
Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media
As Terry Pratchett said, "There are as many types of vampire as there are disease; some are virulent and deadly, and some just make you walk funny and avoid fruit."
The vampire changes most depending on what story you want to tell. Romance tends towards the tragic figure cursed by awesome who represents danger, lust, and uncanny charisma -- their weakness and strengths are less central than their character development. Action vampires usually enter the realm of the grotesque in appearance and monstrous in character -- their strengths and weaknesses are obviously more significant seeing as they'll be your mobs for that evening. Then there's Gothic Horror which incorporates the two to create a better class of monster.
Oddly enough, Dresden has one "Court" for each of 'em.
The only issue I have is with internal consistency.
-
2012-10-06, 02:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
- Location
- right behind you
Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media
Mercedes Lackey writes a small series of magical detective novels, where the main character, Diane Tregarde, (I think thats the name) is a wiccan detective who has a vampire lover. The thing is, she actually includes the vampire lore from a number of sources. Her lover actually feeds off of sexual energy instead of blood. They also cover other vamp strains that feed off of emotions, perfume, music, or devours a persons soul. I like it, that way the author can include all the cultural vampire versions without contradicting things because they are pretty much all real, just regional versions of vampires.
"Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."
"If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."
-
2012-10-06, 07:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media
WARNING: huge megapost ahead that deals mainly with clearing up some misconceptions about the dresden files. Should I spoiler it?
The red court is inspired by the mayan bat god Camazotz (you can see the same type of thing in the movie “dusk till dawn”):
In Maya mythology, Camazotz (alternate spellings Cama-Zotz, Sotz, Zotz) was a bat god. Camazotz means "death bat" in the K'iche' language. In Mesoamerica the bat was associated with night, death, and sacrifice.
Camazotz is formed from the K'iche' words kame, meaning "death", and sotz', meaning "bat".
In the Popol Vuh, Camazotz are the bat-like monsters encountered by the Maya Hero Twins Hunahpu and Xbalanque during their trials in the underworld of Xibalba. The twins had to spend the night in the House of Bats where they squeeze themselves into their own blowguns in order to defend themselves from the circling bats. Hunahpu stuck his head out of his blowgun to see if the sun had risen and Camazotz immediately snatched off his head and carried it to the ballcourt to be hung up as the ball to be used by the gods in their next ballgame.
The white court are inspired by the anne rice “seducer” vampire. When they drain emotion they are actually draining life force as well (which is why they can kill their prey).
The more you know…
You are actually wrong about the demon part. Were did you get that idea from? Nothing we have seen in the DF verse indicates that any of the vampires have anything to do with demons. I suppose you could make an argument for the White court since they have a spirit of Hunger inside them and big nasties from the nevernever are often referred to as demons but that’s the only court I can think of. Plus white court vamps aren’t “possessed” by their Hunger. Most of the time they are in full control of it and only give in when they draw on their power too much.
Interestingly there are actually 7 vampire courts but the ones that I didn't mention are little more than mosquitos (in terms of general influence, not personal power).
You are a little wrong on the "sexy ones are still capital M monsters". A huge part of the DF universe centers around Free Will. The white court vampires actually still have free will and they keep their souls (unlike the other courts) except when they draw on their Hunger too much. This is why Thomas can try to be a good guy.
As I mentioned in the earlier post, demons can mean both "generic nasty from the nevernever (the spirit world) or an actual demon from hell.
Don't forget Gods and their servants in your list either.
Let me confirm this quote:
Is completely true and confirmed by Word of God( though there was a WoG that a White Court vampire could "feed on the warm happy feeling that people get when they’re holding a puppy". That may have just been a joke though).
It has also been confirmed by WoG that the White court can "mix it up" but you start to have this "you are what you eat effect". This is probably why the Raiths (the lust feeders of the White Court) see the Skavis and Malvora (depair and fear feeders respectively) as degenerate.
The different "classifications" of supernatural predators are somewhat fluid in the DF verse. I actually made a thread asking what qualified a group of supernatural predators to be called a vampire court here. I highly suggest you check it out as I think it was very enlightening.
The Black Court are actually stoker vamps and and the classical "rotting monsters that rise from the grave" vamps that were around way before stoker wrote his book. The Red Court on the other hand are inspired by Camazotz (see above post for details). I'd say the White Court was way more influenced by Anne Rice vampires than the RC vampires.
-
2012-10-06, 10:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media
Vampire stories have evolved in ways that parralel superhero stories, when you think about it. One of the reasons why Superman was so popular in the 30's and 40's, for instance, was simple wish fulfillment. If getting scarred, paralyzed or permanently injured by diseases like polio, or shot to death and blown up in Europe and the Pacific is an everyday part of your lived reality, who wouldn't want to imagine themselves as having super-healing and bulletproof skin? But once those worries go away and are replaced by the more mundane angsts of adolescence, Superman gets replaced in popularity with a more angsty, brooding Batman.
Similarly, vampire myths used to emphasize disease, rot and the corruption of the soul. In a time when plague, cholera and smallpox are very real immediate threats, and one of the great solaces is the prospect of a disease and war-free afterlife, it's pretty natural to fear that you could be attacked by a dead body that would drain and waste you before damning your soul and reanimating your body in the process. It's perfectly in keeping with the traditional association between disease and God's wrath. But as those fears have receded from our everyday worries, our vampires have changed along with them.
Back on the OT, though, I find the Buffyverse vampires annoying, largely because Whedon keeps trying to play up the dangers of vampires when all they really are in his universe are generic mooks. Given the absurd levels of chaotic stupid seen by those vampires, there really shouldn't have been any vamps more than a week old in the Buffyverse. And why the heck does dying give you a yellow belt in kung fu?Characters:
-
2012-10-06, 10:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Location
- In my own little world...
- Gender
Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media
Custom Melayl avatar by my cousin, ~thejason10, used with his permission. See his work at his Deviant Art page.
My works:Need help?SpoilerNational Suicide Prevention Lifeline (USA)
1-800-273-TALK (8255), 24/7
www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org
In Australia: Lifeline, 13 11 14, 24/7
Reach Out Australia
Beyond Blue, 1300 22 4636
The Samaritans (UK too) UK: 08457 90 90 90, ROI: 1850 60 90 90
-
2012-10-06, 11:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
-
2012-10-06, 11:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2012
Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media
That and the fears of sexual violation and corruption of the innocent. The idea of being penetrated or absorbed by an alluring and predatory demon was a pretty popular and widespread fear, evidently. Given the number of myths which represent this theme in various cultures.
The fact that the popular folklore of numerous cultures connect violence, disease, sex, death, and evil into a single monstrous figure is unsurprising I suppose. But with the sexual revolution, the Victorian sentiments about sex have become somewhat antiquated, and relatively easy for writers to use them for the purposes of titillation rather than moralizing.
-
2012-10-07, 02:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media
Actually, that's something that came later. Until Bela Legosi's interpretation of Dracula, I can't really recall anyone associating vampires directly with sex, for the same reason they didn't associate the story of Billy Goat Gruff with sex. Namely that it's sex with a dead, rotting corpse, and therefore a desecration of oneself and the dead of the highest order in every religion I'm familiar with. Forget the fact that it's evil incarnate and also trying to kill you; sex with the dead is one of the few sexual perversions that is as universally abhorrent as sex with prepubescent children and sex with animals.
One of the things that's both extremely interesting, and incredibly important to remember about myths is that their meanings change to fit the times. But the corrolary is that the myths of the past and the myths of the present are very different, even if they're ostensibly the same stories. Ghost stories now and ghost stories 300 years ago, for instance, are completely different because our conception of ghosts and their conception of ghosts are completely different. Prior to the Romantic era, ghosts were just evil spirits that inhabited a place. Now, they're souls that got lost and didn't cross over. The idea that someone would think to research a haunted house's history to search for incidents of violence or suicide wouldn't make sense in a ghost story 300 years ago, because that's not what ghosts were. Similarly, the idea that vampires are metaphors for the dangers of seduction and sex wouldn't make sense, because that's not what vampires were. That shift is entirely a post-Romantic, and more specifically a post-Hollywood addition to the vampire myth.Characters:
-
2012-10-07, 03:24 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2012
Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media
It would depend upon your definition of vampire, erotic demons with the capacity to drain life exists in Eastern and Western folklore for some time now.
Though more generally, it's not literal sexual intercourse I'm referring to. The figurative projection of the act of penetration and absorption are entrenched pretty hard. Of the unwanted and violent kind, naturally.
-
2012-10-07, 08:16 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Location
- In my own little world...
- Gender
Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media
Custom Melayl avatar by my cousin, ~thejason10, used with his permission. See his work at his Deviant Art page.
My works:Need help?SpoilerNational Suicide Prevention Lifeline (USA)
1-800-273-TALK (8255), 24/7
www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org
In Australia: Lifeline, 13 11 14, 24/7
Reach Out Australia
Beyond Blue, 1300 22 4636
The Samaritans (UK too) UK: 08457 90 90 90, ROI: 1850 60 90 90
-
2012-10-07, 10:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Gender
Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media
Ah! Thanks for pointing that out, it all makes sense now.
The white court are inspired by the anne rice “seducer” vampire. When they drain emotion they are actually draining life force as well (which is why they can kill their prey).
You are actually wrong about the demon part. Were did you get that idea from? Nothing we have seen in the DF verse indicates that any of the vampires have anything to do with demons.
Interestingly there are actually 7 vampire courts but the ones that I didn't mention are little more than mosquitos (in terms of general influence, not personal power).
It has also been confirmed by WoG that the White court can "mix it up" but you start to have this "you are what you eat effect". This is probably why the Raiths (the lust feeders of the White Court) see the Skavis and Malvora (depair and fear feeders respectively) as degenerate.
-
2012-10-07, 11:45 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media
Incubi/Succubi and vampires are completely different in the medieval mind. One is a demon that corrupts the immortal soul of mortals. One is a re-animated dead body, usually of a criminal, blasphemer or especially immoral person, that feeds voraciously on the living. To say they're the same because they have some similar effects on their victims is like saying that humpback whales and Leviathan meant the same thing to medieval sailors because they're both big and live in water.
The idea that a vampire could be a tragic figure is entirely a 20th century invention. And it wasn't until they started being portrayed as tragic figures that people started seeing them in an erotic light. If you had tried to tell the story of Buffy and Angel to peasants in the Renaissance era, they would have thought you were talking about a lunatic with the morality of a pedophile. They would listen to that story with the horror most people have when they read Lolita.Last edited by McStabbington; 2012-10-07 at 11:47 AM.
Characters:
-
2012-10-07, 12:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- Switzerland
- Gender
Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media
Heh. Funny you should say that, given that Leviathan is the word used for "Whale" in modern Hebrew.
Not that you don't have a point. I just felt like being a wiseass.
Willpell: Lifeforce/soul is actually often a major-ish plot point in the books. Harry gets the power of Soulfire from an Archangel, which gives him the power to burn up his own soul to power magic. And there's more than that, scattered everywhere.
Edit: Where's the seven courts from? I don't recall ever hearing that in the book. Harry was already quite surprised when Shiro mentioned four courts, since he had never heard of Jade, only the four coloured courts.
Fun thing about the Jade Court: they feed on memories.Last edited by Eldan; 2012-10-07 at 12:08 PM.
Resident Vancian Apologist
-
2012-10-07, 12:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
-
2012-10-07, 02:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media
Where did you get them feeding on memories from?
The only possible quasi-legit source from either of those would be either the RPG or Word of Jim from somewhere. The RPG does more speculation then anything and is not technically canon as far as I know, I remember them speculating Spring and Autumn for potential fairy plot-hooks which isn't saying those actually existed in the Dresdenverse for all the Fomor could be read as supporting it.
And from the horses mouth... if it was direct or you have something linkable okay but otherwise I've heard enough weird stuff to doubt indirect sources for the Dresdenverse.
Neither of these is mentioned in books. Jiang Shi (the evident inspiration for the Jade Court) would feed on chi if IIRC in most Chinese mythos, not memories. Not me something I know too much about though.
-
2012-10-07, 02:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
- Location
- Freljord
Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media
FTFY. Also, the wiki article.
Homebrewer's Signature | Avatar by Strawberries
-
2012-10-07, 04:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2012
Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media
No, what I'm doing is like comparing Thor to Indra. Two mythological figures -- the vampire and the succubus -- rooted in the same precursors. Lamia, Lilith, Empusa - human eating, blood drinking harlots of Greek myth who come from a still older archetypes in all likelihood. Then, going Eastward to India and South East Asia where the Vampire myth is synonymous with sexual deprivation and female empowerment. The Slavic region was rife with sexualized vampire folklore, both male and female, who were fertile figures partly due to the presumption that the dead were sexual, given that they have erections post-mortem.
The supernatural harlot and blood drinking corpse were split into different iconography in Western Europe but they carried the same projections of anxiety about sexual violation. Something which was obvious in retrospect to the 20th century.
-
2012-10-07, 04:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media
No problem .
Well actually in the DF verse you can detect a soul. Souls and Free Will are a MAJOR part of the setting.
I don't think the WC feed on souls for reasons I'll elaborate in a below post but the soul is detectable in the DF verse.
Also, you keep saying "noir". The DF books are barely noir at all (the main character makes star wars references for cryin out loud) though I can see how you might think so.
I was actually responding to Bayonet Priest and not you but while were on the subject do you think you could quote the section? I couldn't find it anywhere in the Wikipedia page.
Also if you do plan to read the books (Dooo eeet) do not give up after reading books 1 and 2. I see so many people do this and it breaks my heart. The first two books aren't "bad" they are actually good but they do not even touch the amazing that is the later books (keep in mind that this was Jim's first published series). The series starts to pick up by the third book and really gets into swing by book 4.
The african court has been unoffically named the Ivory Court by fans. I see no reason why Jim wouldn't use it.
Almost no info has been given on any of the other courts. Even the Jade court has very little information given and Jim says they will only show up (if they do at all) in the Big Apocalyptic Trilogy at the end of the series (because they are "very busy not getting involved").
I actually don't think lifeforce and soul are the same thing. In Ghost Story it's implied that losing your soul is a really big deal and I think Jim would have let us know if the WC were freaking soul eaters.
See my reply to Morph Bark.
And where the heck did you hear about the JC feeding on memories? In all my time reading the books/reading the forums/reading the various Word of Jim's I have never come across this except in a series of fanfiction called the broken series. Perhaps that's where you got it from?
The wiki (and me) actually got it from the Word of Jim compilation here where it says "Jim mentioned at ConDFW that there were a total of seven courts, but the final three were little more than mosquitoes".
If you've read most of the books I highly reccomend giving the whole Word of Jim compilation a read through. It is full of great, interesting information.Last edited by 123456789blaaa; 2012-10-07 at 05:01 PM.
-
2012-10-07, 04:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- Switzerland
- Gender
-
2012-10-07, 05:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media
-
2012-10-08, 01:21 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Location
- I'm sure it's somewhere
-
2012-10-08, 07:02 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Gender
Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media
A mage can maybe, but an average person cannot. And generally I would assume most of the people the WCVs feed on aren't mages.
As I understand the term "noir", the TV Dresden definitely qualifies; it's not all in grayscale or anything, but it's definitely got that hard-boiled-detective, "Life's not a nice place sweet cheeks" kind of gritty-awesome-hopeless-sexy-cynical attitude going on. The first Dresden book was originally titled "Semiautomagic"; that's plenty Noir right there.
The main DF page doesn't have it, it's on List of Dresden Files Organizations. "Their power derives from an internal demonic essence they call the "Hunger" which acts like a battery". I thought the Red Court were also explicitly demons but the use of the phrase "demonic form" in that article is probably just poetic, not taxonomic.
I don't have time to read a lot of books, so if those books aren't great perhaps I should just skip them. From what I hear the later books get metaplot-heavy; where would you recommend I jump in to have the best quality as a stand-alone book?
Well it would mean another material besides Jade, but Ivory = White so I find it unsatisfying. I would want there to be a Green Court, a Gold Court, maybe a Gray Court, I dunno maybe Violet for the last one. Blue seems wrong somehow.
Yeah I got that, I'm running with the stuff JB intentionally didn't. IMO there's so much vampire lore that three courts just don't cut it; even 7 courts aren't really enough. Heck I ended up deciding that VTM's 13 clans were insufficient.
-
2012-10-08, 12:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Location
- Cippa's River Meadow
- Gender
Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media
Does that include the expanded bloodlines and oriental vampires?
-
2012-10-08, 12:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Gender
Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media
You've never felt exhausted and emotionally drained before? Incidnetally, Butcher is not the first person to come up with the idea of "psychic vampires" that leave their victims mentally rather than physically drained.
The main DF page doesn't have it, it's on List of Dresden Files Organizations. "Their power derives from an internal demonic essence they call the "Hunger" which acts like a battery". I thought the Red Court were also explicitly demons but the use of the phrase "demonic form" in that article is probably just poetic, not taxonomic.
I don't have time to read a lot of books, so if those books aren't great perhaps I should just skip them. From what I hear the later books get metaplot-heavy; where would you recommend I jump in to have the best quality as a stand-alone book?
-
2012-10-08, 12:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- Switzerland
- Gender
Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media
The books are pretty short and very fast-paced. I usually read a new one over a weekend, with one or two weekday evenings attached.
Resident Vancian Apologist
-
2012-10-08, 12:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2004
- Location
- Enterprise, Alabama
- Gender
Re: Worst Instances of Vampirism in media
Nope. I repeat Nope.
The two parts of mythology are (Immortal, drinks blood, Super Strength, speed), mixing in a tiny bit of crap (sparkly in sunlight).
You just hate the sunlight thing.
Almost all vampires are shown in fiction as strong and fast. Blade, Angel, etc does the same thing.
In short, I dislike Twilight because I just plain don't like it. And I don't like their version of Vampires because I think it's poorly handled. So as much as there are people out there who might abuse the story or the movies just on principle, I'm speaking as a self-admitted horror nerd and buff who gave this a legitimate chance and found it to be just plain awful.
Now the fact that every vampire gets random psychic powers like 2E AD&D D&D game is weird, but eh.
I mean, Vampire Bella can see the future. Bella's baby can create force fields.
I am curious why there are no Hollywood Eastern Vampire Movies? Like the Hopping Vampires or other ones.
Sure, Hoppers seem silly, but they are considered vampires.