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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Jul 2012

    Default A Party of Strikers.

    Here's what I've been wondering; can you have a party of strikers built to fulfill every role? Sure, a striker can get high damage, but can you have one that consistently marks and punishes those who break said marks?

    Let's try to build the other three roles using strikers! Hybrids are allowed, but both base classes must be considered a striker.

    A leader needs to;
    • Enable allies to make attacks,
    • Heal the party,
    • And to buff the players.


    A defender needs;
    • Good HP/Healing Surges,
    • Good defences,
    • A way to consitently mark,
    • And to punish those to ignore marks.


    A controller needs to;
    • Debuff enemies,
    • Deal decent damage to many enemies at once,
    • And give penalty conditions and forced movement to enemies.


    If you really wanna be awesome about it, here's a place where you can find an index of class guides. It's good for seeing what goes into being a controller, leader, or defender.
    Here is the link!

    Anyway, any thoughts or suggestions?
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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default Re: A Party of Strikers.

    I'm making a separate post because I have my own suggestion for the defender;

    Firstly take a Human Blackguard or Slayer. These are both considered strikers, but have a parent class of a defender. This gives them tough defenses, access to decent (great with the Blackguard) armor, and decent HP.

    Being human gives you an At-Will with the Slayer (Which otherwise gets none), or Virtuous Strike with the Blackguard so you have a tough, feat supported MBA.

    Next, PMC to Swordmage. This will let you trade an At-Will for one from your second class. Since the Aegis of Assault is built in the form of an At-Will, it's fair game. With the Slayer, you'll have to trade your human At-Will for it.

    The mark punishment for the Aegis of Assault lets you make an MBA on any marked target who attacks someone other than you.

    With the Blackgaurd, you're going to make yourself run thin on stats, However, you can pretty much go all Int and Dex with the Slayer.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: A Party of Strikers.

    Leader: Can't fill all three criteria at the same time. Sorcerer-King Pact warlock comes close.

    Defender: Iron Soul monk, avenger MC cleric for Tactical Warpriest, barbarian Ancestral Weapon, Cha-primary blackguard, pick one. Alternately, I recall a half-elf feat somewhere that has their Dilettante power mark.

    Controller: Completely unnecessary and can be dropped without comment. Otherwise, ignoring your criteria regarding AoE effects (as that's the mistake Wootsie made), a non-Stone Fist monk or Fey Pact warlock covers this neatly.

    Reasoning

    First, EVERY CLASS has access to control effects in their powers, or can obtain them with little effort, weakening any argument for a standalone role for it. The warlock, in particular, has been noted to be a "single-target Controller" rather than a Striker; while it follows the Striker's defined role of "remove priority targets from the battle," it does so through pinpoint debuffing, rather than raw damage.

    Now. The Defender's actual use in combat is as a master of "soft" control... in which the debuff/punishment occurs at the enemy's choice. Barbarians get a few marking powers, Iron Soul monks get to lock enemies down right beside them, and an avenger with the Censure of Pursuit makes a fairly decent pseudo-Defender up until level 16 (provided he takes the Tactical Warpriest PP), at which point he becomes an actual Defender, complete with mark (EONT, when you smack someone) and punishment (OA when mark penalty applies). Iron Soul, however, requires the use of themes, specifically Guardian.

    Which leaves Leaders, for which you're rather in the cold here as Strikers have a tendency to be a bit self-serving. But never fear, for the warlock has a pact for every role! In this case, the powers associated with the Sorcerer-King Pact do everything but heal, while some powers and a PP (Astral Ascendant) from the Vestige Pact do that. Thaneborn barbarians also have a few buffing powers, but here, like the Controller, you're more likely to see these points spread around among the party rather than concentrated in one character.

    And, while not technically considered Strikers, an alternate suggestion is to simply add a warlord or bard/Evermeet Warlock to the party. In the latter case, you'd be providing much needed free movement so that the actual Strikers can use all their actions on attacks. Red Mists FTW!

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default Re: A Party of Strikers.

    I'm sorry, but I'm a little confused. Are you saying that doing damage to more than one creature at a time is not a controller aspect? I am not used to non strikers, to be honest.

    Also, the idea is purely theoretical, so the Evermeet or Warlord are not necessary.

    I LOVE your idea on the Iron Soul Monk with the Tactical Warpriest PP GREAT idea. I think it would be nice to add a way to get a better MBA to use with the Monk as well, unless I am unaware that they have a nice one already.

    How nice do you think it would be to PMC Paladin for Lay on Hands as a Leaderish thing?
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NotScaryBats's Avatar

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    Default Re: A Party of Strikers.

    If you want to do AOE the Sorcerer is pretty good at it. Star Pact for Blazing Starfall, and bam, at will minion death. Burning Spray is pretty alright, too, but its a Blast rather than Area Burst, so I'd go with Blazing Starfall.
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: A Party of Strikers.

    Blackguards are even easier then the Swordmage PMC stuff you were going through... Human, pick Ardent Strike as your extra at-will. Now you have both mark and punishment. Alternatively, Hybrid Blackguard with Warlock/Executioner and choose both Ardent Strike and Virtuous Strike, and then you can get some of the mass sanctioning encounter/dailies from your paladin side.

    Needless to say, defender's covered. Leader on the other hand...

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default Re: A Party of Strikers.

    Firebug - I REALLY like your suggestions. I didn't think of Ardent strike. Definitely a good idea.
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    Creed's Avatar

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    Default Re: A Party of Strikers.

    I agree that Sorc. does epic AoE damage, but another more "control, not AoE" option for Controller would be an Avenger. Fairly sure that there's a way to build an Avenger where no one can walk away from you without getting their butts kicked. Thinking about it, that sounds a little bit Defender-y too.
    Just some thoughts.
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    Tegu8788's Avatar

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    Default Re: A Party of Strikers.

    Defender-easiest way is to be a blackguard, retrain to get ardent strike, then just pick divine sanction powers. You can hybrid to get warlock debuff powers if you want.

    Controller, rogue and monk both have plenty of controller leaning powers. Minion popping is a controller trait, best accomplished by AoE damage, but to kill a minion 2 damage is overkill. Slap sorcerer onto one of the above to get more popping powers. Warlocks are great single target controllers as mentioned, but a few sorcerer powers don't hurt.

    Leader-Again, the warlock has something for everything. A Thaneborn barbarian hybrid Sorcerer-King Warlock would probably be your best bet, MC Bard heavily to get Cha heals. Ardent might work too, not as familiar with that class.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: A Party of Strikers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan_Pehnereas View Post
    I'm sorry, but I'm a little confused. Are you saying that doing damage to more than one creature at a time is not a controller aspect? I am not used to non strikers, to be honest.

    Also, the idea is purely theoretical, so the Evermeet or Warlord are not necessary.

    I LOVE your idea on the Iron Soul Monk with the Tactical Warpriest PP GREAT idea. I think it would be nice to add a way to get a better MBA to use with the Monk as well, unless I am unaware that they have a nice one already.

    How nice do you think it would be to PMC Paladin for Lay on Hands as a Leaderish thing?
    Area attacks should not be criteria for Controller play, no. What matters for that is the effects of the powers; warlocks are a prime example, lots of debuffs and status effects, but less damage than other Strikers.

    And I said avenger with Tactical Warpriest, Iron Soul needs Guardian theme. Avengers can get an MBA easy with Power of Skill, or, of course, a half-elf can filch a power that functions as one from another class. Monks have Internalize the Basic Kata, but that only works with unarmed strike; our Iron Soul monk should grab a pair of Babau Gauntlets ASAP to get a Dex-based MBA. Those fill the hands slot, so you're not missing out on anything Important.

    As for Lay on Hands, not worth it! Strikers don't have the healing surges to spare for that, better to have everyone multiclass a Leader so they can pick up a daily heal (MC warlord gets to cheat, check out the Fight On feat in MP2!), and of course your Tactical Warpriest avenger is going to be MC'ing cleric anyway, why not pick up a shot of Healing Word in the process?

    Also, if you make a Cha-primary blackguard somehow (tieflings, humans and half-elves can do this, they'll be ignoring the native at-wills) you can poach the paladin's more Leader-y powers. Not to mention you'd have a better at-will attack than you would otherwise.

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