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  1. - Top - End - #61
    Troll in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Dragon vs melee party

    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird View Post
    Now add baskets of Kobolds strapped to the backs of said dragons...
    except that you miss the problem there: Kobolds are to dragons as Mongrelfolk are to everyone else in the game. Kobolds are dragons, just not big and powerful ones
    Last edited by toapat; 2012-10-07 at 05:02 PM.


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  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: Dragon vs melee party

    Quote Originally Posted by toapat View Post
    except that you miss the problem there: Kobolds are to dragons as Mongrelfolk are to everyone else in the game. Kobolds are dragons, just not big and powerful ones
    Ordinary kobolds ... aren't. They're distantly related, sure, but they have a different type and no particular subtype advantages. It's only DWKs that are dragons at all.
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  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: Dragon vs melee party

    Quote Originally Posted by tuggyne View Post
    Ordinary kobolds ... aren't. They're distantly related, sure, but they have a different type and no particular subtype advantages. It's only DWKs that are dragons at all.
    being the lowest common denominator of a plethora of species can change one's type (Mongrelfolk are what happens when every half human interbreeds far enough, to the point that they no longer have the type of outsider or humanoid, but monsterous humanoid)


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  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Daemon

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    Default Re: Dragon vs melee party

    The fact remains, if you're going to toss a dragon at the team to give them an idea of what dragons are truly capable of, you have a few options.

    If they decide to wait till night-fall to go to the nearby place, send a black dragon adult at them. At night. They're possibly the stealthiest of the dragons, the evil one's, anyway.

    If they go at any other time, give them a frozen hell with the white dragon.

    I'd personally throw a green one at them, but that would wreak a bit of havoc on their equipment...

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: Dragon vs melee party

    It's all in the setup. Have the party meet a gnome with a newfangled quick-loading catapult in a heavy-duty fireproof (or acidproof, or whatever) cart, and when they're out and about have the dragon attack. Then it's a running battle as the party rides on a runaway cart with the gnome at the wheel (as it were) with the dragon performing strafing attacks (for whatever reason you see fit). Then when the party runs out of ammo they can fling themselves at the dragon, assuming you treat the aerial assaults as uber-charges for lots of damage.
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  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: Dragon vs melee party

    Quote Originally Posted by Biotroll View Post

    I'm thinking of giving them nets and some NPC party support at this fight, with some time to prepare too.
    Whatever you do, do not "give" them an über-powerful DMPC who saves the day. Doing so takes away any sense of accomplishment if they win. They should not feel like spectators in the game of DM's dragon vs. DM's NPC.
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  7. - Top - End - #67
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Dragon vs melee party

    Quote Originally Posted by Allanimal View Post
    Whatever you do, do not "give" them an über-powerful DMPC who saves the day. Doing so takes away any sense of accomplishment if they win. They should not feel like spectators in the game of DM's dragon vs. DM's NPC.
    Or alternatively, give them an uber powerful NPC, who gives them tactical advice, teaches them how to fight dragons, whittles down its hitpoints a bit and then gets eaten (not swallowed whole, chewed up and then swallowed)
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  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: Dragon vs melee party

    Quote Originally Posted by only1doug View Post
    Or alternatively, give them an uber powerful NPC, who gives them tactical advice, teaches them how to fight dragons, whittles down its hitpoints a bit and then gets eaten (not swallowed whole, chewed up and then swallowed)
    This is flat-out bad advice. It feels contrived and makes the PCs feel worthless. If you do it badly, it'll break verisimilitude. If you're trying for any sort of seriousness at all, please, for the love of PunPun, don't do this.
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  9. - Top - End - #69
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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Dragon vs melee party

    give them a NPC marshal 1 level lower than the party buffing accuracy and will saves and a squad of 2nd lv mooks, have them be competent in tactics but lack any sort of indivual asskickery, they'll provide some archery support and possibly correct some of the stupider tactics but will really need the pc's to carry the encounter or will die horribly leaving the pc's to pick up the slack.

  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Default Re: Dragon vs melee party

    If you're going for NPC support, give them some low level NPCs whose job is to get eaten by the dragon. Bonus points if you make the NPCs liked by the party.
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  11. - Top - End - #71
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    smile Re: Dragon vs melee party

    I think I'll settle with announced white dragon and NPCs for now. I was thinking of introducing rival party of NPCs anyway, so my PCs have some competition. Not going to do DMPCs of them for sure. I'm thinking of druid for some resists and heals, barbarian for net tossing and trying to hold the dragon down and ranger to help barbarian and throwing tanglefoot bag or two at dragon. Party should do the rest and should they get hurt badly, I'll let the dragon escape (most likely going to be badly wounded too) so they can track him down a bit latter and face him with a new strategy.

    So the last question is: What music do you recommend for dragon slaying action?

    And as bonus (if you are bored), names for the three NPCs? Probably going to make druid a female half-elf, ranger is going to be human male and barbarian is going to be dwarf male.
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  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: Dragon vs melee party

    Pokemon battle music. Always.
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    Angel of Justice avatar by OhMyGodI'mOnFire

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  13. - Top - End - #73
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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Dragon vs melee party

    Quote Originally Posted by RFLS View Post
    Pokemon battle music. Always.
    Diamond and Pearl Champion Cynthia battle specifically.

  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: Dragon vs melee party

    Quote Originally Posted by Biotroll View Post
    So the last question is: What music do you recommend for dragon slaying action?
    The Okami soundtrack might be good for this. My internet is slow as crap for the moment so I can't give links, but go to Youtube and look up the "Okami OST" followed by "Twin Devils Moshirechik and Kotanechik's Extermination" and "Demon Lord Nine-Tail's Extermination."
    Last edited by Rubik; 2012-10-10 at 04:56 PM.
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  15. - Top - End - #75
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    Default Re: Dragon vs melee party

    Quote Originally Posted by Rubik View Post
    The Okami soundtrack might be good for this. My internet is slow as crap for the moment so I can't give links, but go to Youtube and look up the "Okami OST" followed by "Twin Devils Moshirechik and Kotanechik's Extermination" and "Demon Lord Nine-Tail's Extermination."
    This is really great, thanks for tip.

    Also thanks to everyone for replies. This thread can now be closed I guess.
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  16. - Top - End - #76
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    Default Re: Dragon vs melee party

    Hey, in the last moment

    How to make a non-flying dragon:
    1. Mineral warrior template.
    2. Rattelyr don't have a wings. And chole dragon have tentacles for wings.

    How to make a non-casting dragon:
    1. The Nameless template takes away spellcasting and SLA.
    2. Make it too young or dimwitted dragon.
    3. Planar dragons don't have spellcasting at all.

    The last thing - if you have a melee party, give them a "melee" dragon For example, dragon-war hulk or frenzy berserker...

    If you want to make encounter a bit easy to them without under-CR dragon, you can give something which, while heightening the CR, doesn't do much for actual power. Such as NPC class levels or stacked half-dragon templates...

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