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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!

    Hiya everyone. In sympathy to the giant I obviously subconsciously decided to sustain a hand injury and thus find my productive capability halved (or more as its my good hand). As such I doubt i will finish my class :(

    I have been reading peoples entries however and wanted to let you all know that the quality here is awesome as always! I'll see how things go and try to post up some mini peach's in time.

    Good luck to everyone!
    OMFGWTF!!

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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!

    Hey Silva, could you shrink your Shade Channeler pic? It isn't playing nicely with my computer screen.

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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!

    Cool, and just now I got inspiration

    *commits honorable mental suicide*

    Hopefully next time.
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!

    Holy crap I finished Ley Engineer in time... anyone wanna take a look before the deadline is up?
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!

    Quote Originally Posted by sirpercival View Post
    Holy crap I finished Ley Engineer in time... anyone wanna take a look before the deadline is up?
    I will attempt to, it seems an interesting class.
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!

    Just a quick review.


    i don't think they need 8+int skills, with their int focus they already get a lot of skill points. Beguilers don't get 8+ either. You can keep it if you want though.


    Plans:
    General: How big is the area of effect for plans? I can't seem to find that anywhere. You also might want to sort the plans in category order or minimum pulse use.

    Control Weather: I think this one falls into the problem that control winds has. It just can devastate cities horribly.

    Increase gravity: Skill checks scale MUCH more rapidly than attack rolls which might make the ranged attack blocking part of this plan a bit strong. Also you should not that spells aren't affected (Rays and the like aren't affected by gravity)

    Instant Fortress: Okay I love this one. Nothing wrong with it but I love the idea of a Ley Egineer just building a huge wall

    Mine Field: You might want to make this one scale a bit as it deals an insane amount of damage early on but not so much later. Also flying creatures shouldn't detonate the mines should they? Or incorporeal actually. What type of damage are the mines? Are they magical? Also you might want to tone done how many mines you can create I can think of a let engineer and a psion with telekinetic thrust just absolutely killing anything. Create a line of mines that does 8d6 damage each, you will probably have about 20+ mines. Then use telekinetic thrust to throw the enemy down the line dealing 160d6. Slightly strong.

    Overall fairly good class I didn't see anything too rigged or broken with it.
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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!

    Quote Originally Posted by kanachi View Post
    Hiya everyone. In sympathy to the giant I obviously subconsciously decided to sustain a hand injury and thus find my productive capability halved (or more as its my good hand). As such I doubt i will finish my class :(
    Sorry to hear it. Get better soon.
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!

    Quote Originally Posted by Silva Stormrage View Post
    Just a quick review.


    i don't think they need 8+int skills, with their int focus they already get a lot of skill points. Beguilers don't get 8+ either. You can keep it if you want though.
    Yes, but to use their abilities they also need to maintain 15 different skills (10 knowledges and 5 crafts). That was the main justification... does it still seem too much?

    Plans:
    General: How big is the area of effect for plans? I can't seem to find that anywhere. You also might want to sort the plans in category order or minimum pulse use.
    It's in the description -- 30-foot radius unless otherwise specified. Also, the table is sortable :D

    Control Weather: I think this one falls into the problem that control winds has. It just can devastate cities horribly.
    So, what would help with that? Increase the minimum pulse? It seems quite appropriate for what this class is supposed to do, is all...

    Increase gravity: Skill checks scale MUCH more rapidly than attack rolls which might make the ranged attack blocking part of this plan a bit strong. Also you should not that spells aren't affected (Rays and the like aren't affected by gravity)
    Hm. I'll take another look at this, it was i think the first one I wrote, and I got more experienced with them as I went on.

    Instant Fortress: Okay I love this one. Nothing wrong with it but I love the idea of a Ley Egineer just building a huge wall
    This one right here is the very first idea I had for the class. BAM! Castle.

    Mine Field: You might want to make this one scale a bit as it deals an insane amount of damage early on but not so much later. Also flying creatures shouldn't detonate the mines should they? Or incorporeal actually. What type of damage are the mines? Are they magical? Also you might want to tone done how many mines you can create I can think of a let engineer and a psion with telekinetic thrust just absolutely killing anything. Create a line of mines that does 8d6 damage each, you will probably have about 20+ mines. Then use telekinetic thrust to throw the enemy down the line dealing 160d6. Slightly strong.
    Well, the idea was to have the mines not be physical things. They can't be moved around, and they also fill a cube (I think it says square, I should fix that) and can be placed 3D, so they can hit fliers. It's a magical proximity mine, not a pressure mine. And I meant [Force] damage, so I'll fix that too.

    Overall fairly good class I didn't see anything too rigged or broken with it.
    Great! Wasn't too confusing/complicated, I hope?
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!

    When will the voting thread come up?
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!

    Quote Originally Posted by Silva Stormrage View Post
    When will the voting thread come up?
    It's up. Sorry for the delay; I've been busy and forgetful.
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!

    Quote Originally Posted by Temotei View Post
    It's up. Sorry for the delay; I've been busy and forgetful.
    Thats fine, I don't think the people here mind waiting a few days . Out of curiosity why can't you vote for your own class? If you can't it removes the incentive to vote at all. Since you only limit your own chances of winning by voting.

    Maybe impose a -3 score penalty for each entry which is removed when the creator votes? This way everyone doesn't just vote for their own class and it gives incentive to vote at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazuki View Post
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!

    Quote Originally Posted by Silva Stormrage View Post
    Thats fine, I don't think the people here mind waiting a few days . Out of curiosity why can't you vote for your own class? If you can't it removes the incentive to vote at all. Since you only limit your own chances of winning by voting.

    Maybe impose a -3 score penalty for each entry which is removed when the creator votes? This way everyone doesn't just vote for their own class and it gives incentive to vote at all.
    The votes were becoming toxic to the actual threads since the only first place votes were for themselves (except in rare cases). I asked everyone and pretty much everyone said they'd prefer it without votes available for self-made classes, most of whom were the authors themselves.

    A penalty would enforce balance, but not fun. It would force votes, and I don't want to make anyone do anything. Some authors choose not to vote (for reasons other than that they're lowering their chances) and I want to keep it that way.
    Last edited by Temotei; 2012-11-08 at 02:43 PM.
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!

    Quote Originally Posted by Temotei View Post
    The votes were becoming toxic to the actual threads since the only first place votes were for themselves (except in rare cases). I asked everyone and pretty much everyone said they'd prefer it without votes available for self-made classes, most of whom were the authors themselves.

    A penalty would enforce balance, but not fun. It would force votes, and I don't want to make anyone do anything. Some authors choose not to vote (for reasons other than that they're lowering their chances) and I want to keep it that way.
    Fair enough.
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  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!

    Hey Derjuin, I had a comment on the Celebrant... Y ou need to add two restrictions to the ceremony ability.

    1. A max number of participants, scaling with level probably.
    2. A requirement on the intelligence of the participants.

    Otherwise it's bag of rats all over again. You can hire a chicken infested commoner with a spell pouch, grab 500 chickens, and at level 1 spend an hour to get 500 ac.
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!

    Quote Originally Posted by sirpercival View Post
    Otherwise it's bag of rats all over again. You can hire a chicken infested commoner with a spell pouch, grab 500 chickens, and at level 1 spend an hour to get 500 ac.
    I tried to hit but it took forty-six tries to get a 20. AC OP nerfnao.
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!

    Quote Originally Posted by sirpercival View Post
    Hey Derjuin, I had a comment on the Celebrant... Y ou need to add two restrictions to the ceremony ability.

    1. A max number of participants, scaling with level probably.
    2. A requirement on the intelligence of the participants.

    Otherwise it's bag of rats all over again. You can hire a chicken infested commoner with a spell pouch, grab 500 chickens, and at level 1 spend an hour to get 500 ac.
    Thanks - I'll add in the requirement on intelligence. However, I've already added something to deal with participants. Ceremony is intended to be able to affect large groups at once (entire armies for example), and those that grant bonuses based on the number of participants all have this line:

    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrant
    up to Celebrant's Charisma modifier
    in their description. So 500 chickens would net you +Cha to AC as a Morale bonus, not +500 AC.

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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!

    Quote Originally Posted by Derjuin View Post
    Thanks - I'll add in the requirement on intelligence. However, I've already added something to deal with participants. Ceremony is intended to be able to affect large groups at once (entire armies for example), and those that grant bonuses based on the number of participants all have this line:

    in their description. So 500 chickens would net you +Cha to AC as a Morale bonus, not +500 AC.
    Oh hey, I missed that. Good call.
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!

    Quote Originally Posted by Temotei View Post
    The votes were becoming toxic to the actual threads since the only first place votes were for themselves (except in rare cases). I asked everyone and pretty much everyone said they'd prefer it without votes available for self-made classes, most of whom were the authors themselves.

    A penalty would enforce balance, but not fun. It would force votes, and I don't want to make anyone do anything. Some authors choose not to vote (for reasons other than that they're lowering their chances) and I want to keep it that way.
    In the prestige class contest we've always had a policy of "if you vote for yourself, people give you the stinkeye"; its not expressly forbidden but we've all frowned upon it. I don't think I'd ever vote for myself in a contest, to be fair, but I may be a minority and it may just be because I run a contest.

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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!

    Sorry for chiming in late to this...but...

    I have to say that the toxicity being discussed is completely alien to me. Yes, my contest is still young and short in the tooth, but I've never seen any issues with allowing folks to vote for their own entries (yet). I mean, it's a big thing to get anyone to vote period, so that might be part of the reason and we do give out a lot of trophies (actually adding 8 or so new ones pretty soon), so maybe that's part of the reason too.

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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!

    Here's the thing, though... assuming every entrant votes, then allowing votes for oneself basically means that each one is only voting for 2 other classes. It's more interesting if you have to vote for other classes.

    Plus, of course you're going to vote for yours -- you wrote it, you like it. Pick the other entries that you like!
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!

    Quote Originally Posted by sirpercival View Post
    Here's the thing, though... assuming every entrant votes, then allowing votes for oneself basically means that each one is only voting for 2 other classes. It's more interesting if you have to vote for other classes.

    Plus, of course you're going to vote for yours -- you wrote it, you like it. Pick the other entries that you like!
    That's why its plainly discouraged in my contest. Vote for others, its lame to vote for yourself.

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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!

    Quote Originally Posted by sirpercival View Post
    Plus, of course you're going to vote for yours -- you wrote it, you like it. Pick the other entries that you like!
    7 voting threads in, 9 contests and this doesn't seem to be the behavior most of the time of those entrants who did bother to cast a vote (and in one case there were literally only 3 entries and only two of them even fit the flavor). So I guess I'll take your word for it, but this has yet to become a problem for my contest.

    I'll keep my eye out on the voting threads from now on though.

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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!

    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Brau View Post
    7 voting threads in, 9 contests and this doesn't seem to be the behavior most of the time of those entrants who did bother to cast a vote (and in one case there were literally only 3 entries and only two of them even fit the flavor). So I guess I'll take your word for it, but this has yet to become a problem for my contest.

    I'll keep my eye out on the voting threads from now on though.
    People were almost obligated to vote for themselves if they wanted to win because everyone else was doing it. Discouragement seems to deter self-votes a bit, but it's difficult to just say, "Hey!" and get people to stop voting for themselves that way. The most popular/best classes are often neck-in-neck in the voting thread.

    Besides, if everyone votes for themselves, it only artificially inflates scores for the authors that did vote.

    Also, I asked a bunch of people in the previous chat thread what they thought, and they said they would prefer it be a rule. I'd be okay with calling another vote, however, if you, X, or Silva particularly object. It's only fair.
    Last edited by Temotei; 2012-11-10 at 03:14 AM.
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!

    I don't particularly care, I mean I was just curious as I wasn't there when it was decided and the last one I participated in we were allowed. So I was just curious on the reasoning.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazuki View Post
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!

    Quote Originally Posted by Silva Stormrage View Post
    Maybe impose a -3 score penalty for each entry which is removed when the creator votes? This way everyone doesn't just vote for their own class and it gives incentive to vote at all.
    Generally speaking I find it best to reward people for doing things rather than punish them for not doing so. So a better version of this system would be to give each person who votes 1 bonus point and keep the rule of no voting for yourself. Why only 1 point? Well not everyone can vote or has time to vote but its nice to say "thanks!" to those who do make the time (I always try to pm people who vote for my classes if i can to say thanks anyway).

    You could take this system further and incentivise people to vote early and not vote tactically (waiting till near the end before casting your vote for max effect) by giving the first X number of designers who vote an additional bonus point. If this would be worth it or not Iím unsure.

    Anyway something to think about.
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!

    Hey do we need to wait till the voting is done to post the creations on the homebrew boards?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazuki View Post
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!

    Quote Originally Posted by Silva Stormrage View Post
    Hey do we need to wait till the voting is done to post the creations on the homebrew boards?
    No. However, changes made to the class need to stay outside of the contest thread until after the contest voting is concluded. All voting will be based on the contest version.

    Also, if you post it before voting is done and you win, you can't put that in the thread title.

    It's not against the rules, though. Go ahead.
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!

    I don't know if anyone has had this idea already, but I want to make a Sublime Soldier with Falling Anvil!
    Last edited by FireInTheSky; 2012-11-13 at 07:27 AM.

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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!

    Quote Originally Posted by Temotei View Post
    No. However, changes made to the class need to stay outside of the contest thread until after the contest voting is concluded. All voting will be based on the contest version.

    Also, if you post it before voting is done and you win, you can't put that in the thread title.

    It's not against the rules, though. Go ahead.
    There's a two week window to change the title, so it should be possible.
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    There's a two week window to change the title, so it should be possible.
    True, but most people don't look at stuff on the Homebrew forum after that time. There's just so much content these days that only certain homebrews actually get any attention.
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