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2012-11-23, 10:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Has the next theme been decided on?
He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
-James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
Satomi by Elagune
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2012-11-23, 10:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Homebrew
Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).
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2012-11-23, 11:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Well, we still have access to the chart in the old thread.
He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
-James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
Satomi by Elagune
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2012-11-24, 12:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
The response was a bit underwhelming.
I have a few suggestions:
Creature Feature- like Race Race, but more monstery.
Cinephilia- recreate a famous movie hero with a base class. (Edit: Dibs on Indiana Jones)
Big Dipper- creating very multiclassing-friendly classes (probably counterintuitive to the purpose of a 20 level base class contest, but oh well).
Bad Juju (is that politically correct?)- Hexes and ill luck.Last edited by sengmeng; 2012-11-24 at 12:44 AM.
My Homebrew (Free to use, don't even bother asking. PM me if you do, though; I'd love to hear stories).
Avatar done by me (It's Durkon redrawn as Salvador from Borderlands 2).
Nod, get treat.
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2012-11-24, 02:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Awesome Avatar by Derjuin
My Homebrew: Here
The Necromantic Codex: A collection of necromancy classes, items and monsters.
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2012-11-24, 03:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
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- Minnesota
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Homebrew
Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).
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2012-11-24, 04:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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- Freljord
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
For some reason the first thing I thought of when you asked for a new theme was this.
Homebrewer's Signature | Avatar by Strawberries
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2012-11-24, 07:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
I still like a lot of those ideas in the other thread: true believers, inner planes, time, song-inspired...
Cinephilia is a great idea though. The trick is going to be finding a movie character that's interesting but hasn't been done to death before...(member in good standing of the troll-feeder's guild)
I am the assassin of productivity.
Super boss Muscle Wizard avvie by Ceika.
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2012-11-24, 09:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
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- In the Playground. Duh.
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
I'm siding with cinephilia here. Snape killed Trinity with M. Night Shamalan's sled!!
White is my color for internal monologue. (without the black highlight, of course)
Judge's choice in the Pathfinder Grab Bag XIX
Spoiler
Avatar by the ever-brilliant Ceika
Paizocarnum - A 3.p update of Incarnum, now in PDF!
The Beastmaster: Master of Beasts! (Pathfinder homebrew class)
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2012-11-24, 12:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
If we do cinephilia I'm claiming Inception.
(member in good standing of the troll-feeder's guild)
I am the assassin of productivity.
Super boss Muscle Wizard avvie by Ceika.
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2012-11-25, 02:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
My Homebrew (Free to use, don't even bother asking. PM me if you do, though; I'd love to hear stories).
Avatar done by me (It's Durkon redrawn as Salvador from Borderlands 2).
Nod, get treat.
-
2012-11-25, 08:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
(member in good standing of the troll-feeder's guild)
I am the assassin of productivity.
Super boss Muscle Wizard avvie by Ceika.
gitp extended sig
minmaxboards extended sig (more stuff)
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2012-11-25, 06:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
-James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
Satomi by Elagune
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2012-11-27, 06:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Any word on results/new contest?
(member in good standing of the troll-feeder's guild)
I am the assassin of productivity.
Super boss Muscle Wizard avvie by Ceika.
gitp extended sig
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2012-11-27, 09:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
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- Minnesota
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Homebrew
Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).
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2012-12-02, 04:43 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
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- Minnesota
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Sorry for the delay. The thread is up.
Cinephilia is the theme. Good luck.Homebrew
Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).
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2012-12-02, 08:25 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Woohoooo! I'm so excited about the Extractor that I just posted, I'm entering a PbP with one already!
Still writing out soulmelds, but I'd appreciate someone to take a look at it, especially the rather extensive extraction mechanics, if you get a chance. I'll happily PEACH in return when your entry is up.(member in good standing of the troll-feeder's guild)
I am the assassin of productivity.
Super boss Muscle Wizard avvie by Ceika.
gitp extended sig
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2012-12-02, 05:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
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- CA
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Well, to start off, I just have to say that I find it incredibly amusing that our two classes could easily be the "fighter" and "rogue" classes of some sort of True Nature of Reality power source.
But that aside.
Overall, I think the class looks very well done. It is quite complex, using two subsystems, Inspiration as an additional resource, and Lucid Dreaming which is, itself, a fairly extensive skill. Not necessarily a bad thing, and I do like how all the abilities work together, tied in through Inspiration.
However, I'm not sure about the maneuvers as a daily resource. Maneuvers don't tend to be so powerful that a daily limit is really necessary (a cursory look over the discipline doesn't really make me think it's significantly stronger than normal). This is compounded by the fact that the class lacks reliable ways to deal solid damage. Even the maneuvers tend to be more tactical and debuff style, which can still work in a party, but I'm not sure they can use their maneuvers often enough to really make a strong claim to a debuffer role.
I suppose it makes me ask, is it really worth having a whole additional subsystem in play, for abilities balanced for per-encounter use that are being used at a per-day rate?
I really like Contagious Awakening. It helps deal with the issue of being in a skill-based challenge and the non-skill characters being unable to try and do anything. The Lucid Projection is also an interesting way to work with the balance issues of companion class features.
The Extraction mechanic...I think suffers from the nature of D&D. It's very cool and I like how you integrated the various skills and force the opposition to use a lot of skills, giving a nice advantage to the dreamer despite the number of checks. It has the advantage that it isn't technically a divination (or Mind Affecting?), it's potentially subtle, and it can be used remotely. Even so, it's way less efficient than a lot of other magical ways to get information in D&D...even a bard with Suggestion and Modify Memory. It definitely has its niche, I'm just not sure how often that niche will come up in play. It just seems like in play it would be relegated to more of a flavor ability that might come up if the DM builds a challenge around it, rather than being the cornerstone of the class.
One actual mechanical problem, though, unless the first Gather Information check doesn't take time and only successive ones take normal time, that Extractions below Complexity 5 (DC 30) basically auto-fail, since you don't have enough time to make even a single Gather Information check (with successful Disguise and Forgery, you have a 50% chance that Complexity 4 will work).
Overall, I like the class, but I definitely think it's going to be campaign-dependent. In a more urban/political game, it can be awesome. In a more traditional adventure setting, it has lots of utility, but I feel it might have trouble making reliable contributions, depending on optimization levels (it does have a high enough sheer volume of capabilities that I imagine it has a decently high optimization floor, so that will help).A role playing game is three things. It is an interactive story, a game of chance, and a process in critical thinking.
If brevity is the soul of wit, I'm witty like a vampire!
World of Aranth
M&M 3e Character Guide
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2012-12-02, 08:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2010
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Hm I am not sure on what to do for this one. I definitely will participate in it though.
Awesome Avatar by Derjuin
My Homebrew: Here
The Necromantic Codex: A collection of necromancy classes, items and monsters.
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2012-12-02, 09:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
That... is awesome. Where would these guys fit in?
But that aside.
Overall, I think the class looks very well done. It is quite complex, using two subsystems, Inspiration as an additional resource, and Lucid Dreaming which is, itself, a fairly extensive skill. Not necessarily a bad thing, and I do like how all the abilities work together, tied in through Inspiration.
However, I'm not sure about the maneuvers as a daily resource. Maneuvers don't tend to be so powerful that a daily limit is really necessary (a cursory look over the discipline doesn't really make me think it's significantly stronger than normal). This is compounded by the fact that the class lacks reliable ways to deal solid damage. Even the maneuvers tend to be more tactical and debuff style, which can still work in a party, but I'm not sure they can use their maneuvers often enough to really make a strong claim to a debuffer role.
I suppose it makes me ask, is it really worth having a whole additional subsystem in play, for abilities balanced for per-encounter use that are being used at a per-day rate?
The Extraction mechanic...I think suffers from the nature of D&D. It's very cool and I like how you integrated the various skills and force the opposition to use a lot of skills, giving a nice advantage to the dreamer despite the number of checks. It has the advantage that it isn't technically a divination (or Mind Affecting?), it's potentially subtle, and it can be used remotely. Even so, it's way less efficient than a lot of other magical ways to get information in D&D...even a bard with Suggestion and Modify Memory. It definitely has its niche, I'm just not sure how often that niche will come up in play. It just seems like in play it would be relegated to more of a flavor ability that might come up if the DM builds a challenge around it, rather than being the cornerstone of the class.
I spent a lot of time working out the mechanics of a relatively situational ability... mostly because they're central to the concept of the class (and to the inspiration), and also to make them awesome for when they do happen.
One actual mechanical problem, though, unless the first Gather Information check doesn't take time and only successive ones take normal time, that Extractions below Complexity 5 (DC 30) basically auto-fail, since you don't have enough time to make even a single Gather Information check (with successful Disguise and Forgery, you have a 50% chance that Complexity 4 will work).
Overall, I like the class, but I definitely think it's going to be campaign-dependent. In a more urban/political game, it can be awesome. In a more traditional adventure setting, it has lots of utility, but I feel it might have trouble making reliable contributions, depending on optimization levels (it does have a high enough sheer volume of capabilities that I imagine it has a decently high optimization floor, so that will help).
I'm glad you like it! I'll take a look at Neo when I get a chance (probably after Wednesday).(member in good standing of the troll-feeder's guild)
I am the assassin of productivity.
Super boss Muscle Wizard avvie by Ceika.
gitp extended sig
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2012-12-02, 09:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
That... is awesome. Where would these guys fit in?
But that aside.
Overall, I think the class looks very well done. It is quite complex, using two subsystems, Inspiration as an additional resource, and Lucid Dreaming which is, itself, a fairly extensive skill. Not necessarily a bad thing, and I do like how all the abilities work together, tied in through Inspiration.
However, I'm not sure about the maneuvers as a daily resource. Maneuvers don't tend to be so powerful that a daily limit is really necessary (a cursory look over the discipline doesn't really make me think it's significantly stronger than normal). This is compounded by the fact that the class lacks reliable ways to deal solid damage. Even the maneuvers tend to be more tactical and debuff style, which can still work in a party, but I'm not sure they can use their maneuvers often enough to really make a strong claim to a debuffer role.
I suppose it makes me ask, is it really worth having a whole additional subsystem in play, for abilities balanced for per-encounter use that are being used at a per-day rate?
The Extraction mechanic...I think suffers from the nature of D&D. It's very cool and I like how you integrated the various skills and force the opposition to use a lot of skills, giving a nice advantage to the dreamer despite the number of checks. It has the advantage that it isn't technically a divination (or Mind Affecting?), it's potentially subtle, and it can be used remotely. Even so, it's way less efficient than a lot of other magical ways to get information in D&D...even a bard with Suggestion and Modify Memory. It definitely has its niche, I'm just not sure how often that niche will come up in play. It just seems like in play it would be relegated to more of a flavor ability that might come up if the DM builds a challenge around it, rather than being the cornerstone of the class.
I spent a lot of time working out the mechanics of a relatively situational ability... mostly because they're central to the concept of the class (and to the inspiration), and also to make them awesome for when they do happen.
One actual mechanical problem, though, unless the first Gather Information check doesn't take time and only successive ones take normal time, that Extractions below Complexity 5 (DC 30) basically auto-fail, since you don't have enough time to make even a single Gather Information check (with successful Disguise and Forgery, you have a 50% chance that Complexity 4 will work).
Overall, I like the class, but I definitely think it's going to be campaign-dependent. In a more urban/political game, it can be awesome. In a more traditional adventure setting, it has lots of utility, but I feel it might have trouble making reliable contributions, depending on optimization levels (it does have a high enough sheer volume of capabilities that I imagine it has a decently high optimization floor, so that will help).
I'm glad you like it! I'll take a look at Neo when I get a chance (probably after Wednesday).(member in good standing of the troll-feeder's guild)
I am the assassin of productivity.
Super boss Muscle Wizard avvie by Ceika.
gitp extended sig
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2012-12-02, 10:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Hm, I was thinking of doing a Percy Jackson one based off of the Percy Jackson movie but the movie kinda diverges from the books a lot and I was going to take some stuff thats book only. Would that be allowed? Or should it be only focused on the movies.
Awesome Avatar by Derjuin
My Homebrew: Here
The Necromantic Codex: A collection of necromancy classes, items and monsters.
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2012-12-02, 11:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
I think it would be okay. Maneuvers don't tend to be as powerful as spells at equal level, and these guys are limited to a single discipline, where factotums get the whole sor/wiz list.
Gotcha. I wasn't actually quite sure how it would work, if it was meant to be a mission in itself (like the movie), or more of a, roll these checks, okay you succeed, you learn this. I was reading it more along the latter lines.
Knowing it's the former, though, I wonder if maybe it would be worth revising to less about a single procedure, and more a selection of individual actions to use in Lucid Dreaming. So like, designing a maze, for example, might deny the target the normal bonuses for being in its own dreamscape for the duration, the Gather Information check could simply let you find specific pieces of information in the target's dreams, the Bluff check lets you avoid notice. Basically, keeping the functions largely the same, but...I guess presenting them more as discrete options that you can use tactically rather than as the rules for an Extraction Minigame. It would also open up some more options for higher-level abilities if you wanted to go that route...maybe a high-level Extractor could also plant information or even ideas in the target's "safe" or whatever.
That's what I'd figure. The Soulmelds will help (and I didn't study them in great detail, so I may have missed something), but they struck me as more utility-oriented. Most of the offensive ones seem to help you score hits, but not really make your hits much stronger (although, Daydream Gloves makes any sort of one-attack-per-round option quite attractive). So, I guess it's a question of just how big an effect those maneuvers will have.Last edited by Quellian-dyrae; 2012-12-02 at 11:48 PM.
A role playing game is three things. It is an interactive story, a game of chance, and a process in critical thinking.
If brevity is the soul of wit, I'm witty like a vampire!
World of Aranth
M&M 3e Character Guide
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2012-12-03, 12:06 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Hey, to let everyone know, I'm re-opening recruitment for a game, one of which's main features is that homebrew is heavily encouraged. Here, if anyone cares.
He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
-James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
Satomi by Elagune
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2012-12-03, 12:06 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Yeah, agreed. I've made the change; they are now per encounter rather than per day.
Gotcha. I wasn't actually quite sure how it would work, if it was meant to be a mission in itself (like the movie), or more of a, roll these checks, okay you succeed, you learn this. I was reading it more along the latter lines.
Knowing it's the former, though, I wonder if maybe it would be worth revising to less about a single procedure, and more a selection of individual actions to use in Lucid Dreaming. So like, designing a maze, for example, might deny the target the normal bonuses for being in its own dreamscape for the duration, the Gather Information check could simply let you find specific pieces of information in the target's dreams, the Bluff check lets you avoid notice. Basically, keeping the functions largely the same, but...I guess presenting them more as discrete options that you can use tactically rather than as the rules for an Extraction Minigame. It would also open up some more options for higher-level abilities if you wanted to go that route...maybe a high-level Extractor could also plant information or even ideas in the target's "safe" or whatever.(member in good standing of the troll-feeder's guild)
I am the assassin of productivity.
Super boss Muscle Wizard avvie by Ceika.
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2012-12-03, 12:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Archaeologist is up. Looking for balance; I already know his HD and BAB are probably too high, but I can't accept Indiana Jones as a d8 and 3/4 BAB.
My Homebrew (Free to use, don't even bother asking. PM me if you do, though; I'd love to hear stories).
Avatar done by me (It's Durkon redrawn as Salvador from Borderlands 2).
Nod, get treat.
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2012-12-03, 07:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
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- In the Playground. Duh.
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
White is my color for internal monologue. (without the black highlight, of course)
Judge's choice in the Pathfinder Grab Bag XIX
Spoiler
Avatar by the ever-brilliant Ceika
Paizocarnum - A 3.p update of Incarnum, now in PDF!
The Beastmaster: Master of Beasts! (Pathfinder homebrew class)
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2012-12-03, 10:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
My interpretation is definitely also a skillmonkey and has ways to get his AC to decent levels. He seems to have high AC until he gets into a fistfight or dragged behind a truck. Basically, the director only let him dodge the stuff that would have killed him. He takes several pretty severe beatings throughout the movies.
My Homebrew (Free to use, don't even bother asking. PM me if you do, though; I'd love to hear stories).
Avatar done by me (It's Durkon redrawn as Salvador from Borderlands 2).
Nod, get treat.
-
2012-12-07, 01:17 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2012
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Damn you! Now I have to do a class based on Johnny Mnemonic just so I can put
I. want. ROOM SERVICE!
as my class quote...
I approve.Avatar courtesy of Ceika.
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2012-12-08, 09:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Finished the soulmelds! I still have to do my rewrite of the Extraction mechanics, however...
(member in good standing of the troll-feeder's guild)
I am the assassin of productivity.
Super boss Muscle Wizard avvie by Ceika.
gitp extended sig
minmaxboards extended sig (more stuff)