New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 40
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Chainsaw Hobbit's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Avatar by Ceika
    Gender
    Male

    Default On Doctor Who ...

    I really like the concept of The Doctor, and the Tardis. The regeneration thing is cool, and kind of fascinating. The sentient timeship is cool, and also kind of fascinating. The character of The Doctor, especially when portrayed by David Tennant, Tom Baker, and William Hartnell, is great.

    ... But I'm not sure I actually enjoy watching the show all that much. The science fiction aesthetic annoys me, the sense of humor annoys me, and the overall tone usually annoys me.

    The idea has such great potential as a serious drama, focusing on The Doctor's psyche, and the way his influence profoundly screws people up in a way that is gradually dawning on him.

    Instead, it becomes a lighthearted adventure jokefest with occasional drama. I have nothing against the inclusion of humor but I feel it would work much better as a dark drama with occasional humor.

    I also don't see why the show has to be science fiction. Why not urban fantasy? Why isn't the doctor a fae creature? It certainly fits the character. Why does there need to be spaceships? Wouldn't a more Neverwhere-like aesthetic fit better? Its not like the writers try to scientifically justify anything.

    I guess the show is pretty okay on its own, but I feel it could have been much better.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: On Doctor Who ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chainsaw Hobbit View Post
    I also don't see why the show has to be science fiction. Why not urban fantasy? Why isn't the doctor a fae creature? It certainly fits the character. Why does there need to be spaceships? Wouldn't a more Neverwhere-like aesthetic fit better? Its not like the writers try to scientifically justify anything.
    Surely at that point its a different show entirely
    All Comicshorse's posts come with the advisor : This is just my opinion any difficulties arising from implementing my ideas are your own problem

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Carlisle, Englund
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: On Doctor Who ...

    It's science fiction probably because it was first intended as a show to teach children about history and science. I'm not educated on the popularity of different genres through history, but I'm sure Sci-Fi was a rising genre in the 60s and they thought it would attract children.
    "Three blokes walk into a pub. One of them is a little bit stupid, and the whole scene unfolds with a tedious inevitability." - Bill Bailey
    Androgeus' 3 step guide to Doctor Who speculation:
    Spoiler
    Show
    1. Pick a random character
    2. State that person is The Rani
    3. goto 1

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Harrisburg PA,
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: On Doctor Who ...

    Oh Dr Who you Mary Sue. I am in the same boat with the Dr. It has qualities I Like but....He is such a mary sue. And For someone who won't use a gun he is a bit captain collateral damage for my tastes.
    If you wish to have a voice chat, Send me a PM and we can arrange it. Provided you use skype.

    I do not give permission for posts may be used for research purposes unless written permission is given.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2008

    Default Re: On Doctor Who ...

    Quote Originally Posted by scurv View Post
    Oh Dr Who you Mary Sue. I am in the same boat with the Dr. It has qualities I Like but....He is such a mary sue. And For someone who won't use a gun he is a bit captain collateral damage for my tastes.
    Newest Doctor toned down the anti-gun moralizing a great deal (to its benefit in my opinion).

    Anyway, as to the OP. Ehh, seems you're just interested in another show. Personally, I don't see anything inherently superior in a dark drama as opposed to a light comedy. The Doctor is about adventure, and how much fun it would be to go out and explore. And yes, there are some points of drama but that very much is not the focus, and making it the focus would completely alter the tone.

    This change could be good, could be bad, depending on the writers, actors and so on.

    If you want to make a serious, fantasy epic about a time traveling elf and his human companions that revolve around his need for companionship but the realization that he screws up everyone who gets near him. Well, cool. But at that point, you've lost a lot of the things that people like about the Doctor and not necessarily for the better. It's just one of those different taste sort of things.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Aotrs Commander's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Derby, UK
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: On Doctor Who ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chainsaw Hobbit View Post
    I really like the concept of The Doctor, and the Tardis. The regeneration thing is cool, and kind of fascinating. The sentient timeship is cool, and also kind of fascinating. The character of The Doctor, especially when portrayed by David Tennant, Tom Baker, and William Hartnell, is great.

    ... But I'm not sure I actually enjoy watching the show all that much. The science fiction aesthetic annoys me, the sense of humor annoys me, and the overall tone usually annoys me.

    The idea has such great potential as a serious drama, focusing on The Doctor's psyche, and the way his influence profoundly screws people up in a way that is gradually dawning on him.

    Instead, it becomes a lighthearted adventure jokefest with occasional drama. I have nothing against the inclusion of humor but I feel it would work much better as a dark drama with occasional humor.
    I disagree. The last thing, the very last thing, we need these days is more "dark drama" in media - there's enough of that as it is... Doctor Who can be quite dark enough for purpose as it is, without making it worse.

    (I am so frag-damn tired of all the melodrama and dark drama and "gritty" and "realistic" nonsense that pervades media today; everything has to be "darker and edgier" which inevitably means it ends up been dull, flat and frequently quite pathetic and/or mean spirited (Marvel and DC comics, looking at you in particular for that last one.))

    It's nice to have at least one show that is a) sci-fi, when all proper sci-fi has more or less disappeared and replaced by crime dramas or supernatural dramas (or supernatural crime dramas...) and b) light-hearted for the most part (while maintaining the ability to get serious at the appropriate point).

    (There is a reason why 90% of the shows I watch these days are cartoons or children's programs; I think the tighter restrictions on what they can do actually mean the good ones (like say, Young Justice) are much better written than a lot of live-action dramas, because they can't get too distracted with the drama at the expense of the story.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chainsaw Hobbit
    I also don't see why the show has to be science fiction. Why not urban fantasy? Why isn't the doctor a fae creature? It certainly fits the character. Why does there need to be spaceships? Wouldn't a more Neverwhere-like aesthetic fit better? Its not like the writers try to scientifically justify anything.
    How would that make it better? Aside from taking away a lot of the fun aspects (space ships, aliens) - and the very best part of Doctor Who, the Daleks - and thus reducing what you could do or where you could go narratively, I think it would be rather too much like the recent crop of pseudo-magical dramas (Warehouse 13 or Sanctuary and it's ilk or whatever is going these days; I don't watch any of them regularly enough to know which - if any - are still being made).

    Quote Originally Posted by Dienekes View Post
    If you want to make a serious, fantasy epic about a time traveling elf and his human companions that revolve around his need for companionship but the realization that he screws up everyone who gets near him. Well, cool. But at that point, you've lost a lot of the things that people like about the Doctor and not necessarily for the better. It's just one of those different taste sort of things.
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chainsaw Hobbit
    I guess the show is pretty okay on its own, but I feel it could have been much better.
    I think it's doing a stellar job, and aside from getting rid of the Ponds as a very low point, I think Moffat's run of Doctor Who is the best it's ever been.



    The BBC are highly unlikely to attempt to make such a change, because the license-paying public would play merry hell with them (Doctor Who has always been family-orientated viewing - and prime-time Saturday BBC One viewing at that), and unlike the big US networks which are private companies, the BBC is basically a public service we literally pay taxes for, so it is a bit more culpable.

    The BBC did kind of try doing something not a million miles from the direction you suggest, with the spin-off Torchwood (perhaps worth a look for you, it never appealed to me at all), which was more serious and was mostly Earth-based, closer to your "urban fantasy." Wasn't overly popular, though, enough that it only made three seasons and was regulated to subsidary channels. (I think Sarah Jane Adventures nearly lasted longer, and they only stopped making that when Elizabeth Sladen sadly suddenly died.)

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Post Re: On Doctor Who ...

    Hasn't Doctor Who gotten a lot darker already? The last few seasons were like a steady downward spiral of his psyche.
    Extended Signature here.

    Darth Vader avatar by Kymme

    SWSE Campaign:
    IC Thread
    OOC Thread

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Eldan's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Switzerland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: On Doctor Who ...

    There's two things on TV that are missing for my tastes. Proper Science Fiction and light-hearted adventure.

    Doctor Who rarely ever does even a bit of the first, if they ever do, and it seems they are losing the second more and more lately.

    Can't we at least keep a bit of it?

    Not to say that your show idea couldn't be amazing if done right. But not if it costs me one of the few remaining genuinely fun shows out there.

    It's bloody time travel to magical technicolor dream wonderland. If you can't enjoy that, what can you enjoy?
    Resident Vancian Apologist

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default Re: On Doctor Who ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chainsaw Hobbit View Post
    I guess the show is pretty okay on its own, but I feel it could have been much better.
    Yeah, what were they thinking? It'll never last.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Brother Oni's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Cippa's River Meadow
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: On Doctor Who ...

    As Aotrs Commander said, definitely look into Torchwood. Same universe, far more serious take on it.

    The entire third season is about how Earth handles an alien contact scenario without the aid of the omnipotent Doctor to help them (it doesn't go well).

    There's 4 seasons of it and things definitely pick up in the second and third seasons. I haven't seen the 4th season though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    "urban fantasy" in Cardiff
    Fixed that for you.
    Last edited by Brother Oni; 2013-03-11 at 07:17 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Re: On Doctor Who ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    It's nice to have at least one show that is a) sci-fi, when all proper sci-fi has more or less disappeared and replaced by crime dramas or supernatural dramas (or supernatural crime dramas...) and b) light-hearted for the most part (while maintaining the ability to get serious at the appropriate point).

    How would that make it better? Aside from taking away a lot of the fun aspects (space ships, aliens) - and the very best part of Doctor Who, the Daleks - and thus reducing what you could do or where you could go narratively, I think it would be rather too much like the recent crop of pseudo-magical dramas (Warehouse 13 or Sanctuary and it's ilk or whatever is going these days; I don't watch any of them regularly enough to know which - if any - are still being made).
    Sorry for the cut and paste jobs...

    Sanctuary ended with the fourth season just as they were about to deal with humanity having to confront the missing links of evolution (forgotten what they're called!) don't know about Warehouse 13 but it had crossover episodes with A Town Called Eureka so thats worth mentioning especially as it had an arc dealing with time travel including a trip back during the second world war but I haven't been keeping tabs on most of those!

    I think it's doing a stellar job, and aside from getting rid of the Ponds as a very low point, I think Moffat's run of Doctor Who is the best it's ever been.
    Agreed about the departure of the Ponds that might have been better if their return to the present meant they couldn't travel with the Doctor anymore due to how much temporal radiation they absorbed from the paradox but thats just me!

    The BBC are highly unlikely to attempt to make such a change, because the license-paying public would play merry hell with them (Doctor Who has always been family-orientated viewing - and prime-time Saturday BBC One viewing at that), and unlike the big US networks which are private companies, the BBC is basically a public service we literally pay taxes for, so it is a bit more culpable.

    The BBC did kind of try doing something not a million miles from the direction you suggest, with the spin-off Torchwood (perhaps worth a look for you, it never appealed to me at all), which was more serious and was mostly Earth-based, closer to your "urban fantasy." Wasn't overly popular, though, enough that it only made three seasons and was regulated to subsidary channels. (I think Sarah Jane Adventures nearly lasted longer, and they only stopped making that when Elizabeth Sladen sadly suddenly died.)
    The Sarah Jane Adventures were quite good but had their limits whilst Torchwood... well was Torchwood which sounds better than yelling "Barrowman!" ever few minutes!

    So have you sampled episodes from the other Doctors'?
    Last edited by Hopeless; 2013-03-11 at 07:48 AM.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Banned
     
    Griffon

    Join Date
    Feb 2011

    Default Re: On Doctor Who ...

    The tone of new Doctor Who is definitely different than classic Doctor Who. Budget I think is a factor. Doctor Who is infamous with its cheesy special effects and new Doctor Who is no exception, it's now iconic, but the ability to hire lots of extras and go on locations instead of always being in a studio provides an atmosphere you didn't have often in classic. Also, what can get by the censors has changed. You can now be more 'in your face', and that can get tiresome.

    The gayness is being overdone. John Barrowman as Jack Harness was terrific. Cool character, fine actor, enjoyed Torchwood, but it's like almost every episode now has innuendo if not outright overtness. It's gratuitous, not pertinent to the story as with Jack. It wants to attract the spotlight which detracts from the overall story.

    Obligatory: No, this is not the same thing as saying it should never be there nor never should have.
    Last edited by navar100; 2013-03-11 at 11:47 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2006

    Default Re: On Doctor Who ...

    I think that Doctor Who is a perfect example of how you can have a meangingful and deep show without resorting to being "gritty", "dark" and "dramatic". It's so much more than people going on silly adventures, it is filled with moral lessons, some more hamfisted than others (I'm talking to you "Planet of the Ood" with your totally not colonialism message), and has an overarching theme that I don't think is said enough in modern media. The show is, more than anything else and to paraphrase Craig Ferguson, about the conflict between intellect and romance against brute force and cynicism, with the former usually triumphing. That is an important message, one you're missing if you think it's all about fun jaunts and one that deserves the kind of deep and varied exploration that DW is giving it. The show is far from perfect, but it's unique and special, and your suggested changes would eliminate that and turn it into your bog standard supernatural drama. We have enough of those.


    @navar100

    I really don't think it's too much. It never goes beyond an indication that this person isn't straight, or these two are a couple. At the most its a bit of flirting. Would you be saying the same thing if it were the same stuff but heterosexual? I think not.
    Last edited by Weezer; 2013-03-11 at 08:34 AM.
    At the heart of all beauty lies something inhuman, and these hills, the softness of the sky, the outline of the trees at this very minute lose the illusory meaning with which we clothed them, henceforth more remote than a lost paradise.
    -Camus, An Absurd Reasoning


    Fourth Doctor avatar courtesy of Szilard

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2008

    Default Re: On Doctor Who ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Weezer View Post
    I think that Doctor Who is a perfect example of how you can have a meangingful and deep show without resorting to being "gritty", "dark" and "dramatic". It's so much more than people going on silly adventures, it is filled with moral lessons, some more hamfisted than others (I'm talking to you "Planet of the Ood" with your totally not colonialism message), and has an overarching theme that I don't think is said enough in modern media. The show is, more than anything else and to paraphrase Craig Ferguson, about the conflict between intellect and romance against brute force and cynicism, with the former usually triumphing. That is an important message, one you're missing if you think it's all about fun jaunts and one that deserves the kind of deep and varied exploration that DW is giving it. The show is far from perfect, but it's unique and special, and your suggested changes would eliminate that and turn it into your bog standard supernatural drama. We have enough of those.


    @navar100

    I really don't think it's too much. It never goes beyond an indication that this person isn't straight, or these two are a couple. At the most its a bit of flirting. Would you be saying the same thing if it were the same stuff but heterosexual? I think not.
    I can't speak for navar, but I very often find overt flirting, be it heterosexual or homosexual rather annoying. Dinosaurs on a Spaceship being a prime example.

    But then, I never really liked Harkness that much either, no matter who he happened to be trying to chat up at the time. So I am very much not one of the normal viewers.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Brother Oni's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Cippa's River Meadow
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: On Doctor Who ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Weezer View Post
    I really don't think it's too much. It never goes beyond an indication that this person isn't straight, or these two are a couple. At the most its a bit of flirting. Would you be saying the same thing if it were the same stuff but heterosexual? I think not.
    In Doctor Who, the most explicit it gets is a single kiss or some flirting (Amy's attempt to get Eleven in bed is probably the raunchiest it got).

    Torchwood... not so much.
    That said, Season 3 didn't have any relationship stuff with Jack, except tragically involving his daughter and grandson.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Eldan's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Switzerland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: On Doctor Who ...

    I don't mind too much, unless its with the Doctor and goes on for too long. Leave the alien alone, you xenophiles.
    Resident Vancian Apologist

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Closet_Skeleton's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Ēast Seaxna rīc
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: On Doctor Who ...

    Jack Harkness is a terrible character in my eyes because he started as Han Solo and then suddenly turned into Jesus. Mainly because for some reason RT Davis thinks everyone needs to be Jesus or if not Jesus at least Kal El or Tinkerbell.
    "that nighted, penguin-fringed abyss" - At The Mountains of Madness, H.P. Lovecraft

    When a man decides another's future behind his back, it is a conspiracy. When a god does it, it's destiny.


  18. - Top - End - #18
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Chimera

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Ferelden
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: On Doctor Who ...

    Quote Originally Posted by navar100 View Post
    The gayness is being overdone. John Barrowman as Jack Harness was terrific. Cool character, fine actor, enjoyed Torchwood, but it's like almost every episode now has innuendo if not outright overtness. It's gratuitous, not pertinent to the story as with Jack. It wants to attract the spotlight which detracts from the overall story.
    The "gayness" isn't being overdone, it's being done badly.

    Moffat typically uses homosexuality/bisexuality as a punchline, a cheap way to get a laugh at the expense of a character by ramping up the innuendo, whereas Davies had characters who just sometimes turned out to be not straight.

    For example, I agree that Captain Jack's a cool character, but that's not because he's omnisexual, it's just because he's a cool character, and that happens to be one aspect of him.

    Oh, and in response to the OP - I personally like the soft, indistinguishable-from-magic sci-fi of Doctor Who as it is, but what you suggest sounds cool, and if you developed the idea into your own setting and stories, I'd certainly be interested in reading it.
    I have a cookie now! (::) I've licked it, so no backsies.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Re: On Doctor Who ...

    Quote Originally Posted by navar100 View Post
    The gayness is being overdone. John Barrowman as Jack Harness was terrific. Cool character, fine actor, enjoyed Torchwood, but it's like almost every episode now has innuendo if not outright overtness. It's gratuitous, not pertinent to the story as with Jack. It wants to attract the spotlight which detracts from the overall story.

    Obligatory: No, this is not the same thing as saying it should never be there nor never should have.
    Given how he's been doing in the Arrow series I agree, which is why I'm more inclined to making it an error of Torchwood carried over from the new Doctor Who.

    Spoiler
    Show
    However Ianto's death really p****d me off!
    So I guess it wasn't all bad!
    Last edited by Hopeless; 2013-03-11 at 11:07 AM.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GreataxeFighterGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2008

    Default Re: On Doctor Who ...

    Quote Originally Posted by scurv View Post
    Oh Dr Who you Mary Sue. I am in the same boat with the Dr. It has qualities I Like but....He is such a mary sue. And For someone who won't use a gun he is a bit captain collateral damage for my tastes.
    The Doctor can be a Mary Sue at times, but mostly that was the Tenth Doctor.

    And not all Doctors are equally gun-adverse (and some that were, it was more "Why bother with a gun? Most of my enemies are immune to bullets" than "Guns are bad"). It does get a bit off, though, when the Doctor won't shoot someone who, frankly, needs to be shot, but is OK with his companions blowing them up, stabbing them, throwing them off a tall building, etc.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    England. Ish.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: On Doctor Who ...

    Quote Originally Posted by dps View Post
    And not all Doctors are equally gun-adverse (and some that were, it was more "Why bother with a gun? Most of my enemies are immune to bullets" than "Guns are bad"). It does get a bit off, though, when the Doctor won't shoot someone who, frankly, needs to be shot, but is OK with his companions blowing them up, stabbing them, throwing them off a tall building, etc.
    There is a reason that one of the best loved quotes from the original series goes something like: "Sgt Benton. Chap with wings. Three rounds rapid."
    Warning: This posting may contain wit, wisdom, pathos, irony, satire, sarcasm and puns. And traces of nut.

    "The main skill of a good ruler seems to be not preventing the conflagrations but rather keeping them contained enough they rate more as campfires." Rogar Demonblud

    "Hold on just a d*** second. UK has spam callers that try to get you to buy conservatories?!? Even y'alls spammers are higher class than ours!" Peelee

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Banned
     
    Griffon

    Join Date
    Feb 2011

    Default Re: On Doctor Who ...

    Spoiler warning for "Narnia-like" Christmas Special

    What stood out about that Christmas special is the Doctor did not go on a moral outrage rant of humans purposely using acid rain on the planet to clear it out. He helped the plant natives escape. That's good. It's what he does. However, I was expecting an admonishment but it never happened. I was pleasantly surprised.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Thufir's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: On Doctor Who ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    The BBC did kind of try doing something not a million miles from the direction you suggest, with the spin-off Torchwood (perhaps worth a look for you, it never appealed to me at all), which was more serious and was mostly Earth-based, closer to your "urban fantasy."
    Unfortunately it was also not as good, and suffered a bit too much (in my opinion) from trying too hard to be dark and also a little from sometimes trying too much to imitate its parent show. Oh, and as others have brought up, there did seem at times to be too much "Everyone is queer and they all want each other."
    Did have some good bits in there, though. Actually, I might rewatch series 2 at some point...
    "'But there's still such a lot to be done...'
    YES. THERE ALWAYS IS."

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: On Doctor Who ...

    Quote Originally Posted by scurv View Post
    Oh Dr Who you Mary Sue. I am in the same boat with the Dr. It has qualities I Like but....He is such a mary sue. And For someone who won't use a gun he is a bit captain collateral damage for my tastes.
    That was really just 10. None of the other Doctors really had any problems with guns.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Chainsaw Hobbit's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Avatar by Ceika
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: On Doctor Who ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Devonix View Post
    That was really just 10. None of the other Doctors really had any problems with guns.
    I think I remember Four not liking guns.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2006

    Default Re: On Doctor Who ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chainsaw Hobbit View Post
    I think I remember Four not liking guns.
    A bit. But more as his general dislike for brutishness and crudeness than any aversion to killing or violence when appropriate.
    At the heart of all beauty lies something inhuman, and these hills, the softness of the sky, the outline of the trees at this very minute lose the illusory meaning with which we clothed them, henceforth more remote than a lost paradise.
    -Camus, An Absurd Reasoning


    Fourth Doctor avatar courtesy of Szilard

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Kitten Champion's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2012

    Default Re: On Doctor Who ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thufir View Post
    Unfortunately it was also not as good, and suffered a bit too much (in my opinion) from trying too hard to be dark and also a little from sometimes trying too much to imitate its parent show. Oh, and as others have brought up, there did seem at times to be too much "Everyone is queer and they all want each other."
    Did have some good bits in there, though. Actually, I might rewatch series 2 at some point...
    They were at their best when they had some interesting concept and expanded upon it logically to explore its consequences in the real world.
    Spoiler
    Show
    The Children of Earth has a brilliant scene where they discuss, in simple pragmatic terms, how to go about sacrificing 10% of the world`s children to alien invaders It was reminiscent of the movie Conspiracy about the holocaust planning. The idea of, what if someone is not there to conveniently save us from the evil invaders was thoroughly considered

    Similarly, Miracle Day was Death Takes a Holiday without a specific moral message, rather the impracticality of eternal life without invulernability. The concept was horrific in its inevitable implications.


    This is what should have made it dark, taking the absurd situations of a Doctor Who and treating it as if it could actually happen. The sexual situations and melodrama made it seem... smaller, like it did not feel confident enough in moving you or making you think with innovative narratives, it has to arouse you and have people shouting each other all the bloody time too.


    As to Doctor Who, I would follow Steven Moffat to hell and back at this point - so long as the show remains in or around his writing talents I do not care which direction it takes.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Banned
     
    RedSorcererGirl

    Join Date
    Dec 2012

    Default Re: On Doctor Who ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Empedocles View Post
    Hasn't Doctor Who gotten a lot darker already? The last few seasons were like a steady downward spiral of his psyche.
    The Doctor has always walked the line. Some times he is dark, some times he is light, some times he is neither and some times even he does not know what he is.

    Even in the best possible light, the Doctor is a mass murderer with millions of kills. The Doctor has destroyed entire planets!

    Then you have the whole accomplice thing. The Doctor generally figures out something bad is going down before most people, yet he will just bungle around and let dozes of other people get killed.

    So the Dark Doctor is already here.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Brother Oni's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Cippa's River Meadow
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: On Doctor Who ...

    Quote Originally Posted by GoddessSune View Post
    Even in the best possible light, the Doctor is a mass murderer with millions of kills. The Doctor has destroyed entire planets!
    I'd say more like billions. He's intentionally caused the genocide or near genocide of at least two species (the Daleks and the Time Lords), with unknown others disregarded as mere collateral damage.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Chainsaw Hobbit's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Avatar by Ceika
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: On Doctor Who ...

    Thanks for the torchwood suggestions. I am not, however, looking for a darker take on the universe. I could take or leave the universe. What I want is a darker take on The Doctor.

    Are there any novels or comics that do something like that?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •