Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Winter Warrior

  1. - Top - End - #1
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Gender
    Male

    Default Winter Warrior

    Hi, all,

    So, the second of two campaigns I just recently joined is a bit higher level, getting started at ECL 15.

    This is a fairly relaxed game with a number of house rules. Among other things, there's a spell points/mana pool variant in place of the regular casting system.

    In any case, I wanted to make a winter warrior style build, sharing some thematic elements with Vald Lokkur, the Divine Crusader/Arcane Archer build in my sig. This would be a melee version, focusing on buffing the party with Snowsight and Snow Walk, and then during combat opening up with a lockdown spell like Blizzard while the party closes in.

    Judging from the make-up of the group, this isn't going to be a crazy high-op game, so I'm mainly looking for a fun build with a few ways of dealing with things in the game.

    (I'm hoping I can use a longspear even though Telchur lists only the spear, shortspear and shortbow as his favored weapons. We'll see.)

    Here is what I have so far (ECL 15, no LA buy-off):

    CN Goliath, Wolf Totem Barbarian 3/Fighter 4/Divine Crusader of Telchur 7

    1- Power Attack
    2- Improved Trip
    3- Improved Bull Rush
    4- Weapon Focus (Longpear)
    5- Cleave
    6- Knockback
    7- Shock Trooper
    9- Leap Attack
    12- Weapon Specialization (Longspear), Imperious Command

    Stats are rolled rather than PB, and I actually rolled quite well (which is nice, since in the other campaign I rolled the equivalent of 22-point buy), getting 8/15/16/13/17/12. I planned on going:

    Str 16/Dex 13/Con 15/Int 8/Wis 12/Cha 17, and putting my level 4 point in Cha and the other two points in Strength. That would leave me with Str 22/Dex 11/Con 17/Int 8/Wis 12/Cha 18 after racial mods.

    The fact that it's a spell point system should make Divine Crusader's casting a little easier to swallow.

    I also DEFINITELY need help with items. I've never started a campaign this late with a mostly melee character, so I'm more or less at a loss regarding how to spend my WBL. I'll have regular WBL for a level 15 character, which (unless my memory is deceiving me) is 200k to start with.

    My thoughts for items include:

    Weapon
    Spoiler
    Show
    A +5 equivalent weapon will be more or less a quarter of my WBL, so I guess that's what I should be going with?

    If I'm allowed to use a longspear instead of a regular spear, I'll probably do longspear + armor spikes, meaning I won't need the changeling property on my spear. If so, I plan to have +1 warning armor spikes.

    If not, I'll have to do a regular spear with the changeling property, which ties up one of my +1s.

    I definitely want to add magebane, and I'm not sure what else. Need some advice on this one.

    I also thought I'd pick up some augment crystals. A lesser truedeath crystal is almost certainly worth it for 5000 gp, just so I'm not totally useless against incorporeal enemies. Not sure if any others are worth it, though.


    Armor
    Spoiler
    Show
    I was thinking fearsome mithral full plate +1, with greater blurring and death ward enchantments. That would come to around 41k.

    Also, looking into augment crystals, maybe the Crystal of Mindcloaking? The greater version is a bit pricey at 10k, so again I'm not sure.


    Other
    Spoiler
    Show
    OK, other things I was thinking of grabbing include:

    • Periapt of the Sullen Sea (essentially add Freedom of Movement to my spell list)
    • Third Eye Clarity
    • Belt of Giant's Strength +6
    • Cloak of Charisma +6


    Adding things up, that would come out to just about 185k, leaving me with 15k to spend. That doesn't give me much for many of the protective items I wanted to pick up, and I was also hoping to find some cheap flight option, too... should I maybe drop down to a +4 weapon? If not, how would you recommend I spend my remaining 15k?

    Thanks as always for your advice!

    EDIT: Added fearsome enchantment to the armor, adjusted money totals accordingly.
    Last edited by Piggy Knowles; 2012-10-06 at 04:56 PM.
    Pulvis Et Umbra Sumus: Shadowcaster Handbook
    Archer Build Compendium

    Iron Chef Awards!
    Spoiler
    Show

    GOLD MEDALS
    IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
    IC XLV: Dead Mists
    IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
    IC XXXIX: AM-1468
    IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
    IC XXX: Jal Filius

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    nedz's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    London
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Winter Warrior

    I'm just going to question an assumption:
    Why do you need HHH ?
    Will you need to pull stuff out of your pockets in the middle of a fight ?
    You have high Str, you can carry more than enough.
    p = 4
    Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' Actually it's worse than that.


    Completely Dysfunctional Handbook

    Avatar by Caravaggio

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Medic!'s Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Chanute, KS
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Winter Warrior

    The Fearsome Armor from Drow of the Underdark would be a nice touch, it comes with spikes (since you're using them anyway) and would let you use your Imperious Command feat more liberally.
    Just in case, in any game I've applied to without being selected: DMs are more than welcome to use my submission as an NPC as they wish!

    Huge thanks to Howl for puting some Boomstick in my avatar

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Winter Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by nedz View Post
    I'm just going to question an assumption:
    Why do you need HHH ?
    Will you need to pull stuff out of your pockets in the middle of a fight ?
    You have high Str, you can carry more than enough.
    Fair question... I'm just so used to adding it as a matter of course, I guess. I usually start most games at a much lower level, and a Haversack filled with a bunch of alchemical items is almost always a helpful thing to have then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Medic! View Post
    The Fearsome Armor from Drow of the Underdark would be a nice touch, it comes with spikes (since you're using them anyway) and would let you use your Imperious Command feat more liberally.
    Wow, yeah, that is a huge bonus for such a small investment! I'll add that in.
    Pulvis Et Umbra Sumus: Shadowcaster Handbook
    Archer Build Compendium

    Iron Chef Awards!
    Spoiler
    Show

    GOLD MEDALS
    IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
    IC XLV: Dead Mists
    IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
    IC XXXIX: AM-1468
    IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
    IC XXX: Jal Filius

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Biffoniacus_Furiou's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Harrisonville, MO

    Default Re: Winter Warrior

    Obligatory Shax's Indispensable Haversack.

    Start out with that +1 LA already bought off, you'll only be down by 3,000 xp instead of an entire level and you should catch back up fairly quickly.

    Telchur's favored weapon is shortspear or shortbow, not longspear. I'd recommend going with Aengrist instead, be a fallen Barbarian (you only lose your Rage 1/day), and use a Bastard Sword. Go Wolf Totem Barbarian 2/ Fighter 4/ Exotic Weapon Master 1/ Divine Crusader, remove Cleave and instead put EWP: Bastard Sword early, and get the Uncanny Blow trick from EWM.

    Be careful of Snowsight, any character in the party with access to any of the Druid, Cleric, or Sorcerer/Wizard spell lists can cast Obscuring Snow and completely trump any encounter all day long. That said, make the rest of the party all pitch in to buy you a 1st level Pearl of Power and to go in thirds for Lesser Metamagic Rods of Extend (2k gp per person) for you to keep them buffed with Snowsight and only spend a single 1st level spell slot each day to buff yourself with it. Be sure to pick up Practiced Spellcaster.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Winter Warrior

    I'm not really a big fan of Aengrist from a flavor perspective. Like I said in the OP, I'm going to see if the DM allows the longspear instead of the shortspear. And failing that, there's always the option of the changeling property from MIC, so that I could be technically wielding a shortspear even though it would have the properties of a longspear.

    I definitely plan to pick up Practiced Spellcaster at 15th level.
    Pulvis Et Umbra Sumus: Shadowcaster Handbook
    Archer Build Compendium

    Iron Chef Awards!
    Spoiler
    Show

    GOLD MEDALS
    IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
    IC XLV: Dead Mists
    IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
    IC XXXIX: AM-1468
    IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
    IC XXX: Jal Filius

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Winter Warrior

    Hmm...

    I started putting together the character sheet, and I noticed a couple of potential issues...

    1. If I expect to max out Jump and Intimidate, having an 8 in Int just plain won't work. I'll have to swap in the 12 or 13, which means putting the 8 in either Dex (coming to a 6 after racial adjustments) or Wis.

    2. My saves are kind of abysmal. Fort's not too bad at +14, but my Reflex save is a lost cause (+4 in the current stat setup, possible +2 if I move the 8 there). My Will save is also pretty bad for ECL 15... +8 with the current setup, or +6 if I move the 8 into Wisdom.

    3. Thinking more on it, is it actually worth it to take mithral full plate? Since I'm probably going to be tanking my AC anyhow with Shock Trooper, I was thinking it might be worth using a lighter armor so that my armor check penalties are lower and my move speed goes up.

    Any thoughts on how I can alleviate this? I'd be willing to shuffle the classes, feats and items around a little bit as long as the basic character remained the same. No psionics, unfortunately.
    Pulvis Et Umbra Sumus: Shadowcaster Handbook
    Archer Build Compendium

    Iron Chef Awards!
    Spoiler
    Show

    GOLD MEDALS
    IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
    IC XLV: Dead Mists
    IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
    IC XXXIX: AM-1468
    IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
    IC XXX: Jal Filius

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    nedz's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    London
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Winter Warrior

    Nymph's Kiss feat might help with the skill points, but why do you need Jump anyway ? You should be flying long before ECL 15.

    You could go for the old miss chance approach, and just dump AC ?

    A Cloak of Resistance, or similar, might help with the saves; but your Reflex save is likely irredeemable.
    p = 4
    Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' Actually it's worse than that.


    Completely Dysfunctional Handbook

    Avatar by Caravaggio

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Winter Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by nedz View Post
    Nymph's Kiss feat might help with the skill points, but why do you need Jump anyway ? You should be flying long before ECL 15.

    You could go for the old miss chance approach, and just dump AC ?

    A Cloak of Resistance, or similar, might help with the saves; but your Reflex save is likely irredeemable.
    Unfortunately Nymph's Kiss won't work due to alignment issues.

    Jump is definitely needed for Leap Attack, which also adds a pretty significant increase to my bull rushing via Knockback. Also, I'm already pretty short on money, and there's very few perma-flight options left that I can afford.

    Miss chance approach is definitely what I'm thinking. I was planning on using greater blurring armor, which is 20%. That being said, that's still 4/5 times that enemies are hitting me. Any way I can up that even further?

    Cloak of Resistance is definitely the standby I plan on using if I can't find any other way to boost my Will save, but it will eat through my remaining money to get a good enough one to really make a difference.

    (Man, trying to make all this stuff work properly for a melee character is a really good reminder as to why I usually play casters at these levels!)

    EDIT: OK, this might be a little bit silly, but what if I dropped barbarian and took three levels of Hexblade instead?

    I lose a few hit points, my bonus speed, and Improved trip. I'll miss Imp Trip, definitely, since I don't have the Intelligence to take Combat Expertise, but whatever. I gain Arcane Resistance (which should be pretty boss with my Charisma so high) and Mettle, plus the ability to use wands off the Hexblade list.

    So that would make me a Hexblade 3/Fighter 4/Divine Crusader 7 instead, bringing the build a little closer to my original Vald Lokkur concept. Any reason why this wouldn't be a decent option?
    Last edited by Piggy Knowles; 2012-10-08 at 10:37 AM.
    Pulvis Et Umbra Sumus: Shadowcaster Handbook
    Archer Build Compendium

    Iron Chef Awards!
    Spoiler
    Show

    GOLD MEDALS
    IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
    IC XLV: Dead Mists
    IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
    IC XXXIX: AM-1468
    IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
    IC XXX: Jal Filius

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    nedz's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    London
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Winter Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by Piggy Knowles View Post
    Unfortunately Nymph's Kiss won't work due to alignment issues.

    Jump is definitely needed for Leap Attack, which also adds a pretty significant increase to my bull rushing via Knockback. Also, I'm already pretty short on money, and there's very few perma-flight options left that I can afford.

    Miss chance approach is definitely what I'm thinking. I was planning on using greater blurring armor, which is 20%. That being said, that's still 4/5 times that enemies are hitting me. Any way I can up that even further?

    Cloak of Resistance is definitely the standby I plan on using if I can't find any other way to boost my Will save, but it will eat through my remaining money to get a good enough one to really make a difference.

    (Man, trying to make all this stuff work properly for a melee character is a really good reminder as to why I usually play casters at these levels!)

    EDIT: OK, this might be a little bit silly, but what if I dropped barbarian and took three levels of Hexblade instead?

    I lose a few hit points, my bonus speed, and Improved trip. I'll miss Imp Trip, definitely, since I don't have the Intelligence to take Combat Expertise, but whatever. I gain Arcane Resistance (which should be pretty boss with my Charisma so high) and Mettle, plus the ability to use wands off the Hexblade list.

    So that would make me a Hexblade 3/Fighter 4/Divine Crusader 7 instead, bringing the build a little closer to my original Vald Lokkur concept. Any reason why this wouldn't be a decent option?
    I was going to suggest wanding Mirror Image or Displacement.
    Probably by UMD, though Displacement can be had off the Illusion domain, if you could bolt that onto DC ?
    MI is on the Hexblade list though, so that's an option (for wanding).

    How do you feel about something like a Bard dip ?
    This would allow you to wand both.
    p = 4
    Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' Actually it's worse than that.


    Completely Dysfunctional Handbook

    Avatar by Caravaggio

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Winter Warrior

    The only problem with bard is that it will delay my entry into Divine Crusader (which is already being delayed by a level due to the goliath's LA). Also, the party already has a bard, so any music I had would be pretty much worthless.
    Pulvis Et Umbra Sumus: Shadowcaster Handbook
    Archer Build Compendium

    Iron Chef Awards!
    Spoiler
    Show

    GOLD MEDALS
    IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
    IC XLV: Dead Mists
    IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
    IC XXXIX: AM-1468
    IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
    IC XXX: Jal Filius

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    nedz's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    London
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Winter Warrior

    Well Duskblade is full BAB, but whilst it has lots of nice buffy spells there are no mis-chances. It does have swift Invis, which you could wand at the end of every initiative, but you will burn through wands. It also has swift fly ?

    I'm not sure you would want more than 1 level though ?
    p = 4
    Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' Actually it's worse than that.


    Completely Dysfunctional Handbook

    Avatar by Caravaggio

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Winter Warrior

    OK, I think I'm going to pass on Duskblade and just stick with Hexblade 3/Fighter 4/Divine Crusader 7. There's no real synergy with Duskblade, and while access to wands off their list might be nice, it would mean dropping Mettle.

    I'll add on to my list of items a wand bracer from Dungeonscape, and wands of Alter Self, Mirror Image and Protection from Law. That should give me some nice alternate movement forms in case I need flight or what not, plus some additional defenses when necessary. I just wish Hexblades got Greater Mirror Image on their list!

    I might also switch around the stats a little bit, so that I have an Intelligence that isn't totally trashed, since all of my classes now get only 2 SP/level.

    For feats, I guess it would be something like:

    1- Power Attack
    3- Improved Bull Rush
    4- WF (Spear)
    5- Cleave
    6- Knockback
    7- Shock Trooper
    9- Leap Attack
    12- Weapon Specialization (Spear), Imperious Command

    Of course, I'm less interested in Cleave now that I won't be getting as many bonus attacks from Improved Trip. Is there another Fighter feat that might go well in its place? Or a way I can re-shuffle things so that I can get a general feat?

    I'd love to find a way to stick some extra spells known onto my Divine Crusader spell list. The way this campaign is working, there's no spell preparation - every caster knows his entire spell list, and just pays for them out of a spell points pool. I've already grabbed a Periapt of the Sullen Sea, which essentially adds Freedom of Movement to my spell list for 6k, but any other ways to add some utility spells would go a long way.

    Thanks all for your help! The first game with this guy is in just over a week, and I'm having a good time writing up the backstory. Should be a fun character.
    Pulvis Et Umbra Sumus: Shadowcaster Handbook
    Archer Build Compendium

    Iron Chef Awards!
    Spoiler
    Show

    GOLD MEDALS
    IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
    IC XLV: Dead Mists
    IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
    IC XXXIX: AM-1468
    IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
    IC XXX: Jal Filius

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DwarfFighterGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2011

    Default Re: Winter Warrior

    Why not go dungeoncrasher fighter instead of regular fighter? You lose a few bonus feats but do more damage when fighting. The whole knockback/shocktrooper synergizes well with dungeoncrasher.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Winter Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by Gwendol View Post
    Why not go dungeoncrasher fighter instead of regular fighter? You lose a few bonus feats but do more damage when fighting. The whole knockback/shocktrooper synergizes well with dungeoncrasher.
    That's actually not a bad idea. Initially I thought it wasn't worth it, because I wasn't going with six levels of fighter. But the first dungeoncrasher level is probably going to be more useful to me than Cleave, even if the damage isn't quite as crazy, now that I'm probably not making as many bonus attacks.
    Pulvis Et Umbra Sumus: Shadowcaster Handbook
    Archer Build Compendium

    Iron Chef Awards!
    Spoiler
    Show

    GOLD MEDALS
    IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
    IC XLV: Dead Mists
    IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
    IC XXXIX: AM-1468
    IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
    IC XXX: Jal Filius

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Person_Man's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Winter Warrior

    Races of Destiny and Player's Guide to Faerun have a bunch of Feats which add spells to your spell list. (Although they're specific to certain gods).

    But I would skip Divine Crusader. You literally know just 1 spell per level (plus whatever you squeeze out of Feats and items), and the other class abilities are very minor. If you've made the decision to use a spellcaster, there's really no crunch reason to use Divine Crusader over Cleric (or Spirit Shaman or Favored Soul if you want spontaneous casting).

    And if you've made the decision to go with Dungeoncrasher, you might want to consider Warmind. That would give you Sweeping Strike and pretty strong Psychic Warrior power progression. (With Expansion, Claws of the Beast, and Claws of the Vampire being the big ones).
    Last edited by Person_Man; 2012-10-09 at 10:56 AM.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Winter Warrior

    Person_Man: Sadly, no psionics in this campaign. Otherwise I probably would have done a half-giant, and either straight psychic warrior or dungeoncrasher fighter/war mind. In any case, I know that Divine Crusader isn't the most optimal choice, but I do think that's what I'm going to go with. The optimization level of the party isn't super high, and Divine Crusader is more than adequate for getting the winter warrior feel I'm looking for.

    Anyhow, I've got the character mostly completed. I just have one final question.

    It turns out I'm starting this a level earlier than I expected. No big deal, but it does mean re-configuring my gear.

    I have it mostly done, except for the weapon. Because I'm a shock trooper who will have an abysmal AC most of the time, I'm going to be healing with my weapon. I have enough money to afford either...

    1. +1 changeling wrathful healing shortspear. (Yeah, it's got to be a shortspear, but at least with the changeling property I can turn it into a longspear with a swift action. I doubt I'll ever actually use it as a shortspear.)

    2. +1 changeling magebane vampiric shortspear.

    Option #1 is obviously a much stronger healing option, healing half the damage I deal with the weapon. Option #2 is the better offensive option, since against most enemies it will be dealing +2 to attack and +3d6 damage, but it will only heal me 1d6 points of damage per attack. Since I'm not pouncing and most of my attacks will be charges, I'll only be reliably generating one attack per round.

    (I'd be using the MIC's version of vampiric, I know that it exists in different forms in other books.)
    Pulvis Et Umbra Sumus: Shadowcaster Handbook
    Archer Build Compendium

    Iron Chef Awards!
    Spoiler
    Show

    GOLD MEDALS
    IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
    IC XLV: Dead Mists
    IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
    IC XXXIX: AM-1468
    IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
    IC XXX: Jal Filius

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Apr 2012

    Default Re: Winter Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by nedz View Post
    I'm just going to question an assumption:
    Why do you need HHH ?
    Will you need to pull stuff out of your pockets in the middle of a fight ?
    You have high Str, you can carry more than enough.
    Because suddenly producing 80 cubic feet of lantern is too awesome to pass up? HHH is a dirt cheap item, and you can keep all that bulky stuff in there, there's really no reason not to have one.

    I mean, if I could buy a magical backpack that held 100 cubic feet of material and a couple hundred pounds but only weighed 5, I might pay tens of thousands of dollars for it.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •