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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Oct 2010
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    Denmark
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    Default Help with Fallen Paladin

    Hey Playground,

    I am currently running a very grey-in-grey morality Eberron campaign, and I've
    hit a small snag with my paladin player - that I'd like to get some help to resolve.

    During the course of the campaign the paladin has fallen 2 times. Both of
    these were fairly obvious, and we were both in agreement that the character
    should fall. It was a relatively minor aggrievance, so all it took was a simple atonement spell.

    However, during our last session the character fell again. Again we both agreed that it was the correct way, and there was no hard feelings.
    Now I anticipate that it will happen again, and I'm worried that it will affect my player's enjoyment of the game - after all how fun is it to be a featless fighter when the rest of the group is rocking out with special abilities ?

    Now, my point is that I'd like to offer the player something else, the paladin thing is not really working out for him. I've talked to the player and he is not really interested in playing the "atonement game". So my plan is to come up with a set of different abilities.

    Here is where I run into some problems - I don't know what to set him up with ? He is playing a very standard Sorcadin build (Paladin 2/ Battle Sorcerer 4/ Abjurabt Champion 1.) , he is going to enter swiftblade. The party is currently level 8, and is mediumly optimized - around tier 3/4.


    What are some cool abilities to replace what he got from 2 levels of paladin ?
    Ideally they should be around the same power level.

    Thanks !
    Tick Tock.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Finland
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    Default Re: Help with Fallen Paladin

    So, your player is interested in mechanics of paladin and doesn't play according to the suggested fluff of the class. There are variant of paladin for each four corner alignment, and there are more variant in Dragon Magazine. If he just doesn't want to go into any one alignment box, chance the fluff of the class to something else.
    That thing is no more terrible then I.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    hex0's Avatar

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    Aug 2011

    Default Re: Help with Fallen Paladin

    How "morally grey" is the rest of the party? I mean you could have him trade in the levels for Blackguard levels. Or make a Lawful Neutral paladin instead. A Judge Dredd type character. Change smite evil to smite chaos and change aura of courage to something that makes you immune to confusion and stuff like that.
    Current homebrew in development: Wild Surge Rager

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Oct 2010
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    Denmark
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    Default Re: Help with Fallen Paladin

    Thanks for the quick replies.

    He is very interested in getting Charisma to saves, and not much else it seems.
    I've considered opening up the Paladin class to other alignments, and/or simply refluffing it.

    It seems to be the best way of solving the problem. However I'm unsure on how to implement it, should I just let him chance his alignment - and let him keep his abilities. Maybe change some of it around as Hex0 suggested.

    How to best implement this change within the game? Would it be best to simply ignore that he has fallen in the past, and just say " well, now you can be a paladin of any alignment - so you can't really fall".
    Or should I implement and legitimize this change using the story, eg. you find a new god/teacher who opens your mind with new possibilities.

    The party is pretty standard CN/TN - I feel a blackguard would be pretty out of place.
    Well the thing is, the player really wants to play a Lawful Good character - it's just that the paladin's code can be a little restrictive and sometimes very harsh.
    Tick Tock.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    California
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    Default Re: Help with Fallen Paladin

    Retroactively make him a Paladin of Freedom if your party leans to the chaotic. He won't be butting heads with the party or his alignment so much, as he doesn't object to the law breaking and general hooliganism, just the evil. CG Robin Hood kind of guy will probably fit right in, since he stops being such a polar opposite.
    To anyone who thought Gandalf was dead: Don't you know, a wizard is never late?

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DeltaEmil's Avatar

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    Mar 2010

    Default Re: Help with Fallen Paladin

    @ClockworkHorror: Do you use the Tome of Battle in your gaming group? The crusader class inside can be a quite good paladin-replacement without the harsh code of conduit.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Jeff the Green's Avatar

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    Feb 2010
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    The Great PNW
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    Default Re: Help with Fallen Paladin

    Well, there are a couple options I can think of. First is to go Grey Guard (CS), which reduces the penalties for falling. But since he's a sorcadin, that's probably not the best. Another is to replace the paladin levels with something else that gives Charisma to saves. I like Witch Hunter (OA) for that, since it only requires a single level, but he will have to find a way to get magic circle against evil; I recommend Arcane Disciple Exorcism.

    You could also just waive the alignment requirements of Paladin. It seems like he's really only playing the class for its mechanical benefits, and while Charisma to saves is nice, it's not game breaking (especially when you're giving up a spell level for it).

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    dantiesilva's Avatar

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    Apr 2012
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    Default Re: Help with Fallen Paladin

    I would suggesst the shadowbane inquisitor but he would have to take a level of rouge for the sneak attack. But then when he falls he loses nothing.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Biffoniacus_Furiou's Avatar

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    Dec 2004

    Default Re: Help with Fallen Paladin

    Give him a Phylactery of Faithfulness, if the same cleric has been giving him all the atonement spells then he would probably permanently adhere it to the paladin's head. That way he knows ahead of time if an action will cause him to fall, and he can decide not to do it to avoid losing his class features.

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