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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default broken foot.

    my half orc tried to kick in a door in our last session. it was a DC5 check, and i rolled a 1. for my critical fumble check, i rolled a 2.

    DM ruled that i broke my foot, and i'll now be hobbling about at half speed until i get it sorted out. pretty generous ruling for those rolls, in my opinion.

    so... what are my options for sorting that out? it's not a normal sort of hit point damage that can be fixed with a cure light wounds. in fact, i think we're going off the grid for this one as far as the rules go. so... any ideas?


    bonus fun... the door was unlocked.

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    Default Re: broken foot.

    I'd say a Cure X Wounds spell would still do it, otherwise it'll be something like a DC15 or so Heal check to set the bone(s) and splinting them somehow, then you have like a 4 to 6 week wait while the bone(s) heal naturally.

    If it were in my game, I'd allow the Cure X but say that your foot is still tender/sensetive for a few days so you'd be at a slight minus to speed, lifting things over the head, balance and jump checks and also anything things that might require putting serious pressure on that foot.


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    Default Re: broken foot.

    If CLW is explicitly off the table, this seems like something a Lesser Restoration would sort out if you have a level 3 Cleric in the group. Failing that, a Heal check and time will deal with it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    Well at least your houserule skill check fumbles have houseruled fumble confirmations.
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    Default Re: broken foot.

    Quote Originally Posted by robertbevan View Post
    pretty generous ruling for those rolls, in my opinion.
    I always sort of hated this whole idea. The fact that even the absolute best individual at any activity has a 5% chance of critically failing always bothered me.

    On the other hand, I would say that magical healing can definitely be retooled to fix things up.

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    Default Re: broken foot.

    Regenerate specifically says it heals broken bones.

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    Default Re: broken foot.

    Quote Originally Posted by robertbevan View Post
    my half orc tried to kick in a door in our last session. it was a DC5 check, and i rolled a 1. for my critical fumble check, i rolled a 2.

    DM ruled that i broke my foot, and i'll now be hobbling about at half speed until i get it sorted out. pretty generous ruling for those rolls, in my opinion.
    That's an ... interesting thing to say about a houserule that messes you up, no? (Skill checks do not fail on a natural 1 unless you houserule them to, nor do any critical failures have fumble tables attached unless you houserule that too. For the record, I do not support skilled warriors having a full 5% to fail trivially simple tasks and sustain lasting injuries. 0.5% perhaps, or less, but 5%?)

    But if you're bound and determined to stick with this, a scroll of regenerate may be your fastest option. The Heal skill has no direct language to deal with this (yay more houserules!) but could be available at low levels. CxW or the vigor line almost certainly won't do the trick here though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
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    Default Re: broken foot.

    Well at least your houserule skill check fumbles have houseruled fumble confirmations.

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    Default Re: broken foot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    Well at least your houserule skill check fumbles have houseruled fumble confirmations.
    I don't suppose I could sig this?

    For what it's worth, it is kinda sucky that your DM's houserules allow for this kind of thing. If you go through a dungeon with 10 doors that need kicking in, and do a few of those per level-up, it's only a matter of time before your ankle gets broken again and becomes a major drain on your wealth-by-level
    Last edited by blazinghand; 2012-10-08 at 10:23 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    Well at least your houserule skill check fumbles have houseruled fumble confirmations.
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    Default Re: broken foot.

    Quote Originally Posted by blazinghand View Post
    I don't suppose I could sig this?
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    Default Re: broken foot.

    When I had royally screwed up at kicking down a door, all that my DM did was have my Animal Companion get embarrassed to be around me and pretended not to know me.

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    Default Re: broken foot.

    Quote Originally Posted by robertbevan View Post
    my half orc tried to kick in a door in our last session. it was a DC5 check, and i rolled a 1. for my critical fumble check, i rolled a 2.
    Wait. Why were you kicking down a door if you didn't at least have a Str bonus? If you rolled a 2 on your confirmation and had at least a 16 Str, then (if I am guessing correctly that a crit fumble confirmation mirrors critical hit confirmation) this shouldn't have confirmed. In fact, if you have an 18 strength, then the original roll should have succeeded.
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    Default Re: broken foot.

    Your DM's table will have an entry on how to "sort it out", that's a basic part of any fumble system with those sorts of entries. It was probably all included in the email your DM sent at the beginning of the campaign, but I imagine if you lost it he can show you the table.
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    Default Re: broken foot.

    Quote Originally Posted by dextercorvia View Post
    Wait. Why were you kicking down a door if you didn't at least have a Str bonus? If you rolled a 2 on your confirmation and had at least a 16 Str, then (if I am guessing correctly that a crit fumble confirmation mirrors critical hit confirmation) this shouldn't have confirmed. In fact, if you have an 18 strength, then the original roll should have succeeded.
    The real question is why he didn't take ten on a DC 5 check. Although to be fair, at least it is somewhat plausible that even a strong warrior could try to hit the door on the hinge side and accidentally hit it a bit sideways so he twists his ankle. Foot breaking might be a bit much (since it implies he hit the door with so much force he broke his foot, which would have happened either way due to the 2nd law of motion), but it's a houseruling so whatever.

    As others have said, either a mundane heal check or lesser restoration should do the trick.

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    Default Re: broken foot.

    Yea, why *didn't* you Take 10?

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    Default Re: broken foot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urpriest View Post
    Your DM's table will have an entry on how to "sort it out", that's a basic part of any fumble system with those sorts of entries. It was probably all included in the email your DM sent at the beginning of the campaign, but I imagine if you lost it he can show you the table.
    I can't tell: is this written for humorous irony, or quite serious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    Yea, why *didn't* you Take 10?
    Anybody knows you can't possibly take 10 on a check with consequences for failure!
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    Default Re: broken foot.

    Quote Originally Posted by tuggyne View Post
    Anybody knows you can't possibly take 10 on a check with consequences for failure!
    I know this is sarcasm, but to clarify for the OP, remember: the rules say you CAN take 10 when there is consequences for failure. You just can't Take *20* when there is a consequence for failure. You can Take 10 when not distracted (examples given are very heavy rain, combat, etc.)
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2012-10-08 at 11:41 PM.

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    Default Re: broken foot.

    Regenerate is the obvious case. With that said, a few broken foot bones seems well within the purview of the Cure X wounds series, given that it can fully heal near killing damage received by things like maces, which have a tendency to break bones.

    With that said, RAW isn't particularly relevant in this case anyways. There are already odd houserules in play, there may well be more of them.
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    Default Re: broken foot.

    A natural 1 is not an automatic failure on an ability check. If it weren't for the DM's house rules you would be able to take a 20 on this check too. The standard without being generous would be that you fail to break the door with no drawbacks. It's a terrible shame since many strength DCs are set quite high with the assumption of taking a 20. This looks like another failed fumble rule to me.

    Your foot needs a regenerate which you can get for 13*7*10=910 gp from a legendary NPC cleric in a very major city. Some high priest perhaps. But with all these house rules flying around a cure light wounds might do it. If not then you might want to read through your DM's house rules and roll up a class that doesn't have to put up with too much. If you can take care of it without huge problems then I'd just brush it off and put up with the wonky rules.
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    Default Re: broken foot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    I know this is sarcasm, but to clarify for the OP, remember: the rules say you CAN take 10 when there is consequences for failure. You just can't Take *20* when there is a consequence for failure. You can Take 10 when not distracted (examples given are very heavy rain, combat, etc.)

    You know I've always thought fumble rules are terrible for a long list of reasons, but somehow until just now I'd missed that it makes taking a 20 impossible/far less useful.

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    Default Re: broken foot.

    Quote Originally Posted by TypoNinja View Post
    You know I've always thought fumble rules are terrible for a long list of reasons, but somehow until just now I'd missed that it makes taking a 20 impossible/far less useful.
    Yeah, fumble rules are a case where a misunderstanding of the rules (or a deliberate decision to make things more "interesting") leads to a remarkable number of adjustments that need to be made, and then more adjustments that those reveal, and so on and so forth. Bad houserules: the gift that keeps on giving!
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
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    Default Re: broken foot.

    Caltrops are an actual case of a food injury that results in a similar form of hobbling that CAN be cured by a Cure Light Wounds spell. If I did actually do something like this, I wouldn't make it any more severe or permanent than a caltrops injury. That's just poor taste, IMO.
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    Default Re: broken foot.

    Maug rollers. Never worry about breaking your feet again.
    Last edited by Agent 451; 2012-10-09 at 01:50 AM.
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    Default Re: broken foot.

    Next time, try breaking down the door with a hammer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Next time, try breaking down the door with a hammer.
    At which point the critical failure could just become slipping the hammer and dropping it on your foot, which breaks it. The issue here is with the critical failure mechanic, and regardless of how good the door-opening procedure gets, there will always be something that can justify a critical failure.
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    Default Re: broken foot.

    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Next time, try breaking down the door with a hammer.
    Player: I rolled a 1. Bah.
    DM: Roll a d20 to see how bad it is.
    Player: Another 1!
    DM: OK, that's "hit self instead of target", let's roll a d100 to see exactly what happens.
    DM: Hmm, a 37. The hammer bounces off the door and into your face. You die.

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    Default Re: broken foot.

    A successful heal check to reset the bones, then cure it with CLW, or similar.

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    Default Re: broken foot.

    You have become enlightened.

    The best thing about fumble rules, is that when you start using them, you immediately recognize them for the garbage they are.
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    Default Re: broken foot.

    Well I would say that with a proper set of fumble rules, using the right tool for the job should definitely reduce the odds for a crit-fail, though not to 0%. A 1-in-20 failure chance actually sounds about right to me for kicking down a door with your foot; people in IRL generally do not do that specifically because it's not a great idea. Policemen are generally in excellent physical shape, but they still use a Portable Ram on doors instead of their steel-toed jack-boots.

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    Default Re: broken foot.

    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Policemen are generally in excellent physical shape, but they still use a Portable Ram on doors instead of their steel-toed jack-boots.
    Eh, depends when, who and were, but policemen in general are in mostly passable physical shape, in no way 'excellent'.

    I'm in rather lousy shape and I don't think I would fail physical test for Police if I really tried, it's not overly serious. Girls sometimes fail due to 3kg ball throwing.
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    Default Re: broken foot.

    The solution is to bludgeon your DM's head with a PHB until he takes it back and removes critical fumbles altogether.
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