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    confused Arcanist & Epic Arcanist [PEACH]

    Preface:
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    I've seen this class been attempted dozens of times and they've always appeared unbalanced to me. In 2nd edition the Arcanist had access to all their spells known 24/7... You can obviously see why that would be a little unfair... So I decided to implement a Spells known system that can be changed every day. Effectively it still needs to prepare as a Wizard prepare as many spells of whatever level it wants or needs and cast those spells whenever it wants (or is able to). In essence I wanted the Arcanist to be a class that prepared like a Wizard, but casted (or Manifested) as a Psion.

    Hopefully the playground will be gentle so please, feel free to edit and comment in this thread to tell me what is troubling you... on this class

    I'm a little nervous about sharing my ideas... so be as harsh and as brutal as you possibly can. If I'm bad at this I wanna know


    The Arcanist

    Alignment
    Any.

    Hit Die
    d4.

    Table 1-1
    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Arcs/day|Unique Spells/day|Weave Depth

    1st|+0|+0|+0|+2|Field Specialization, Spellbook, Scribe Scroll|2|1|1st|

    2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3||6|2|1st|

    3rd|+1|+1|+1|+3||11|3|1st|

    4th|+2|+1|+1|+4||17|3|2nd|

    5th|+2|+1|+1|+4|Bonus Feat|25|4|2nd|

    6th|+3|+2|+2|+5||35|5|3rd|

    7th|+3|+2|+2|+5||46|6|3rd|

    8th|+4|+2|+2|+6||58|6|4th|

    9th|+4|+3|+3|+6||72|7|4th|

    10th|+5|+3|+3|+7|Bonus Feat|88|8|5th|

    11th|+5|+3|+3|+7||106|9|5th|

    12th|+6/+1|+4|+4|+8||126|9|6th|

    13th|+6/+1|+4|+4|+8||147|10|6th|

    14th|+7/+2|+4|+4|+9||170|11|7th|

    15th|+7/+2|+5|+5|+9|Bonus Feat|195|12|7th|

    16th|+8/+3|+5|+5|+10||221|12|8th|

    17th|+8/+3|+5|+5|+10||250|13|8th|

    18th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+11||280|14|9th|

    19th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+11||311|15|9th|

    20th|+10/+5|+6|+6|+12|Bonus Feat|343|15|10th|[/table]
    Class Skills (2 + Int modifier per level,x4 at 1st level) Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int) and Use Magic Device (Cha)

    Class Feature

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency
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    Arcanists are proficient with the club, dagger, heavy crossbow, light crossbow, and quarterstaff, but not with any type of armor or shield. Armor of any type interferes with a Arcanist’s movements, which can cause her spells with somatic components to fail.


    Arcs
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    An Arcanist’s ability to cast spells is limited by the arcs he has available. his base daily allotment of arcs is given on Table 1–1. In addition, he receives bonus arcs per day if he has a high Intelligence score (see Table 1–4). Certain feats and items may also provide bonus arcs per day.

    Each spell costs a certain number of arcs to cast. The higher the level of the spell, the more arcs it costs. Table 1–2 describes each spell’s cost.

    Table 1-2
    {table=head] Spell Level |
    Arcs Cost

    0th | 0*|
    1st | 1 |
    2nd | 3 |
    3rd | 5 |
    4th | 7 |
    5th | 9 |
    6th | 11 |
    7th | 13 |
    8th | 15 |
    9th | 17 |
    10th | 19 |
    11th | 21 |
    12th | 23 |
    [/table]
    and so on...**

    *0th-level spells (cantrips) cost no arcs, consume no Unique Spells per day, and may be casted an unlimited number of times.

    **All spells beyond 1st cost twice the spell level -1.

    In order to replenish his store of arcs, the Arcanist must rest for at least eight hours. Any arcs spent within the last eight hours count against the Arcanist’s daily limit and are not restored.


    Field Specialization
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    Arcanists differ from other spellcasters in their division of magic into three fields—invention, mentalism, and variation—rather than the traditional eight schools. Every Arcanist must select at 1st level one field as his major field of specialization, and one as his minor field. The Arcanist gains a +2 bonus on Spellcraft checks to identify and scribe spells from his major field. Spells of the third field are not available to the Arcanist and he may not cast them. He may not change his choice of specialization later.

    Fields of magic are treated just like schools where feats such as Spell Focus are concerned. Effects that specifically target a certain school only affect those spells of a field that fall into that school. So, for example, a character can gain Spell Focus (mentalism) as a feat, but an item that specifically blocks enchantment spells and effects would not necessarily block all mentalisms.

    Table 1-3
    {table=head]
    Field
    |
    School

    Invention | Conjuration, Evocation |
    Mentalism | Divination, Enchantment, Illusion |
    Variation | Abjuration, Necromancy, Transmutation |

    [/table]


    Due to the Netherese use of an entirely different system of magic then that was casted before the Fall of their Empire. Spells casted by Arcanist were considered to only be limited in power by the caster. Spells that would normally have been inhibited by a cap are instead uncapped. For example a Fireball spell casted by an Arcanist with a caster level of 44 dealt 44d6 damage instead of being limited to a lowly 10d6 as if it were casted by a regular Wizard. In addition to this when casting a spell, an Arcanist may use more Arcs then necessary for the spell to increase the DC to resist the spell by 1 for every additional Arc also, when casting a spell you may increase the caster level of the spell by 1 for every 2 additional Arcs added to the spell. You may not add more Arcs to a spell then twice your caster level using this. You may not use excessive Arcs for the different functions. A Spell modified to have a +2 to bonus to the DC did not also confer a +1 bonus to the caster level of the spell.

    It is possible to obtain spells from your forbidden school with the Extra Spell feat (CArc).


    Spellcasting
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    The Arcanist cast arcane spells derived from the Wizard/Sorcerer Spell list. Arcanist do not need to prepare there spells in advance instead taking the Arcane energy from the environment around them and producing the desired effect, however the Arcanist does possess a spellbook for the purpose of recording which spells they are allowed to cast. To cast a spell the Arcanist must possess an intelligence score of 10 + the spell level and have the required Arcs for the spell.

    Once a spell is casted it takes up a tiny portion of the Arcanist mind and remains there until either the Arcanist takes 8 hours of rest to refresh their mind. An Arcanist may cast as many spells as the amount of Arcs he possess allows, however once he cast his limit of different spells he is unable to cast any different spells save the ones that are saved in his mind.

    The difficulty class for resisting an Arcanist spells is 10 + the Spell level + the Arcanist int modifier.


    Weave Depths
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    The more complex a spell is, the deeper an Arcanist must reach into the Weave to cast it. An Arcanist begins play with the ability to cast cantrips and 1st-level spells. As he attains higher levels, the Arcanist may gain the ability to cast more complex spells.


    Bonus Languages
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    An Arcanist may substitute Draconic and Loross for one of the bonus languages available to the character because of his race.


    Scribe Scroll
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    At 1st level, an Arcanist gains Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat.


    Bonus Feats
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    At 5th level and every 5 levels after that until 20th level, an Arcanist gains a bonus feat. At each such opportunity, he can choose a metamagic feat, an Item creation feat, Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus and Extra Spell (CArc). The Arcanist must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including caster level minimums.

    These bonus feats are in addition to the feat that a character of any class gets from advancing levels. The Arcanist is not limited to this list when choosing these feats.


    Bonus Arcs
    Just as common spellcasters receive bonus spells per day due to high ability scores, gifted Arcanists gain bonus arcs. To determine the number of bonus arcs gained from a high Intelligence score, first find the row for the Arcanist’s Int on table 1–4. Next, find the column for the highest level of spell the character is capable of casting based on his Arcanist level (even if he doesn’t have a high enough Int to cast spells of that level). At the point where the row and column intersect, you find the bonus arcs the character gains. This value can change each time his Int score undergoes a permanent change (such as from an acquired template, a wish spell, or due to character level) and each time his level changes.

    How To Determine Bonus Arcs
    Your key Int score grants you additional Arcs equal to your key ability modifier × your Caster level ×½.

    Table 1-4:Bonus Arcs per level
    {table=head] Ability Score |
    1st
    |
    2nd
    |
    3rd
    |
    4th
    |
    5th
    |
    6th
    |
    7th
    |
    8th
    |
    9th
    |
    10th
    |
    11th
    |
    12th
    |
    13th
    |
    14th
    |
    15th
    |
    16th
    |
    17th
    |
    18th
    |
    19th
    |
    20th

    10-11|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|
    12-13|0|1|1|2|2|3|3|4|4|5|5|6|6|7|7|8|8|9|9|10|
    14-15|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9|10|11|12|13|14|15|16|17|18|19 |20|
    16-17|1|3|4|6|7|9|10|12|13|15|16|18|19|21|23|24|25|27 |28|30
    18-19|2|4|6|8|10|12|14|16|18|20|22|24|26|28|30|32|34| 36|38|40|
    20-21|2|5|7|10|12|15|17|19|22|25|27|30|32|35|37|40|42 |45|47|50
    22-23|3|6|9|12|15|18|21|24|27|30|33|36|39|42|45|48|51 |54|57|60
    24-25|3|7|10|14|17|21|24|28|31|35|38|42|45|49|52|56|5 9|63|66|70
    26-27|4|8|12|16|20|24|28|32|36|40|44|48|52|56|60|64|6 8|72|76|80
    28-29|4|9|13|18|22|27|31|36|40|45|49|54|58|63|67|72|7 6|81|85|90
    30-31|5|10|15|20|25|30|35|40|45|50|55|60|65|70|75|80| 85|90|95|100
    32-33|5|11|16|22|27|33|38|44|49|55|60|66|71|77|82|88| 93|99|104|110
    34-35|6|12|18|24|30|36|42|48|54|60|66|72|78|84|90|96| 102|108|114|120
    36-37|6|13|19|26|32|39|45|52|58|65|71|78|84|91|97|104 |110|117|123|130
    38-39|7|14|21|28|35|42|49|56|63|70|77|84|91|98|105|11 2|119|126|133|140 [/table]

    The Arcanist's Spellbooks and adding spells to it

    An Arcanist must learn spells before he can cast them, and part of this process is scribing them into one of his Spellbooks.

    An Arcanist begins play with a Spellbook containing all 0-level sorcerer/wizard spells from his major and minor fields, plus three 1st-level spells of your choice. For each point of Intelligence bonus the Arcanist has, the Spellbook holds one additional 1st-level spell of your choice. At each new Arcanist level, he gains two new spells of any spell level or levels that he can cast (based on his new Arcanist level) to his Spellbook.

    Arcanists can add new spells to their Spellbooks through several methods. An Arcanist can only learn new spells that belong to the wizard/Sorcerer spell lists.

    Spells Gained at a New Level:

    Arcanists perform a certain amount of spell research between adventures. Each time a character attains a new Arcanist level, he gains two spells of his choice to add to his Spellbook. The two free spells must be of spell levels he can cast. One of the two free spells must be from his specialty school.

    Spells Copied from Another Spellbook or Scroll:

    An Arcanist can also add a spell to his Spellbook whenever he encounters one on a magic scroll or in another Arcanist's or Wizard's Spellbook. No matter what the spell's source, the Arcanist must first decipher the magical writing. Next, he must spend 1 hour studying the spell. At the end of the hour, he must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell's level). Arcanist gain a +2 spellcraft bonus to the spells under their field of specialization. If an Arcanist studies a spell and fails his Spellcraft check to learn it, that spell is out of his reach—forever. he can never attempt to learn the spell again, unless he receives an increased rank in Spellcraft, the use of Wish, Limited Wish, or Miracle or any other method (though it’s possible that Mystra or another deity of magic could bypass this restriction by placing the spell directly in the Arcanist’s mind).

    Arcane Spells and Armor
    Due to the particular and unique way that the Arcanist cast spells, the Arcanist's spells are casted as if they were all stilled. This does not affect caster level or spell level. This allows an Arcanist to cast spells while tied and bind, without Arcane Spell Failure, however while the Arcanist is gagged they may not cast spells unless they apply the Silent spell metamagic to them.
    Last edited by Arcanist; 2013-04-13 at 08:33 PM.

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    Default Re: Arcanist & Epic Arcanist [PEACH]

    Epic Arcanist

    Hit Die
    d4.

    Skill Points
    2 + Int modifier.
    Table 1-5
    {table=head]Level|
    Special

    21 |Epic Spellcasting
    22 |
    23 |
    24 |Bonus Feat
    25 |
    26 |
    27 |Bonus Feat
    28 |
    29 |
    30 |Bonus Feat[/table]

    Spellcasting: The Arcanist’s caster level is equal to his class level. The Arcanist’s base arcs do not increase after 20th level.

    Unique Spells per day: The Epic Arcanist continues to gain to obtain Unique spells per day, albeit at a slower rate. At 25th caster level an Epic Arcanist gains an additional unique spell per day and then again every 5 more caster levels.

    Weave Depth: The Epic Arcanist continues to gain access to greater depths of the weave, at 30th caster level and every 10 level thereafter, the Epic Arcanist gains access to an additional Weave Depth. So a 40th caster level Arcanist would have access to 12th level spells (either for metamagic use or through the use of an actual spell of that level). This is treated as gaining the Improved Spell Capacity feat for the sake of prerequisites.

    Field Specialization: The base Spellcraft DC for developing and casting spells in the epic Arcanist’s major field of specialization is reduced by 10. he cannot develop or cast epic spells based on seeds from his restricted field. For the sake of Schools the Mythal seed is treated as apart of the Universal school of magic.

    Epic Spellcasting: At 21st level, an Arcanist gains the Epic Spellcasting feat as a bonus feat. (See Epic Spellcasting)

    Bonus feats: The epic Arcanist gains a bonus feat (selected from the list of epic Arcanist feats) at ever level divisible by 3 after 21st. This is in addition to any feat gained for leveling up

    Epic Arcanist Bonus Feat List: Augmented Alchemy, Automatic Quicken Spell, Automatic Silent Spell, Automatic Still Spell, Combat Casting, Craft Epic Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Epic Rod, Craft Epic Staff, Craft Epic Wondrous Item, Efficient Item Creation, Enhance Spell, Epic Extra Spell, Epic Spell Focus, Epic Spell Penetration, Extra Spell, Forge Epic Ring, Ignore Material Components, Improved Combat Casting, Improved Heighten Spell, Improved Metamagic, Improved Spellcasting, Intensify Spell, Multispell, Permanent Emanation, Scribe Epic Scroll, Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Spell Stowaway, Spell Opportunity, Tenacious Magic. In addition to the feats on this list, the Arcanist may select any item creation feat or metamagic feat not listed here.
    Last edited by Arcanist; 2013-04-19 at 08:29 AM.

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    Default Re: Arcanist & Epic Arcanist [PEACH]

    Epic Feats
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    Epic Spell Artisan[Epic]
    You can develop epic spells with less expense in time and resources.
    Prerequisites: Epic spellcasting, Epic Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Spellcraft 27 ranks. Knowledge (arcana) 27 ranks, ability to cast 10th-level arcane spells, 21st level Arcanist.
    Benefits: When determining the cost of raw materials for researching an epic spell, you multiply the Spellcraft DC by 7,000 gp instead of the usual 9,000 gp and reduce the development time and XP cost accordingly.

    Improved Spellcasting [Epic]
    You increase your number of arcs.
    Prerequisites: Caster level 21st, ability to cast 9th-level arcane spells.
    Benefits: When you select this feat, you gain 19 arcs.
    Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Each time you do so, you gain an additional number of arcs equal to your previous benefit +2.

    Weave Dependency [Epic]
    You are able to apply much of the pressure of your Epic spells onto the Weave.
    Prerequisites: Epic spellcasting, Epic Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Spellcraft 30 ranks. Knowledge (arcana) 30 ranks, ability to cast 10th-level arcane spells, 21st level Arcanist.
    Benefits: When casting any Epic Spell, you gain a 10% competences bonus equal to the Spellcraft DC of the spell.
    Special: This feat may only be taken pre-fall of Netheril (before -339DR), however an Arcanist transitioning from that point in time may change this feat for any other Epic feat for which they qualify.
    Last edited by Arcanist; 2012-12-02 at 09:06 PM.

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    Default Re: Arcanist & Epic Arcanist [PEACH]

    I like this very much. Power level wise it's a bit more powerful than a wizard in my opinion but from previous experience, tier 1 doesn't mean anything power wise.

    How do you feel about class abilities for it?

    Anyway, I'm book marking this, it's permanently replacing my wizard class.
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    Default Re: Arcanist & Epic Arcanist [PEACH]

    Ah yes, the Arcanist, we meet again.
    Do you know why this class knew all it's spells, and functioned completely differenlty from the normal arcane class of the time? It's because this was supposed to represent the raw power that the Netherese had before their fall.
    Ofcourse, after reading through the class a little, you do know this.
    Last edited by Dante & Vergil; 2012-10-12 at 08:28 PM.

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    Default Re: Arcanist & Epic Arcanist [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Wavelab View Post
    I like this very much. Power level wise it's a bit more powerful than a wizard in my opinion but from previous experience, tier 1 doesn't mean anything power wise.

    How do you feel about class abilities for it?

    Anyway, I'm book marking this, it's permanently replacing my wizard class.
    Heh... So I take it you like it? Any recommendations to make it balance out more compared to the Wizard? The Arcanist is meant to be a Wizard thick and thin (albeit a little different) so I'd rather not add more Class features then their already are (Field Specialization, Bonus feats and Improved Spell Capacity). I was going to make the class start out with 2 spells memorized and then progress at 2 more per level, however at early levels this scales terrible making it only worth while to play at levels 12-20 (where it actually out cast the Psion)... Any recommendations?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dante & Vergil View Post
    Ah yes, the Arcanist, we meet again.
    Do you know why this class knew all it's spells, and functioned completely differenlty from the normal arcane class of the time? It's because this was supposed to represent the raw power that the Netherese had before their fall.
    Ofcourse, after reading through the class a little, you do know this.
    I own a hard copy of Netheril: Empire of Magic and am trying to get my hands on a few copies of other 2nd edition books (Dreams of the Red Wizards and Cormanthyr: Empire of Elves).

    At the moment I'm trying to recreate a 3.5 Edition recreate of Netheril: Empire of Magic, however due to real life issues (School, Friends, Family, Significant Other) I'm kind of delayed on the project... I'm tried my hand at remaking the class with an idea I had after seeing how imbalanced the other remakes were

    Please, Keep them coming gentlemen. Hit me with your best shot

    EDIT: Hmm... I'm examining that Dicefreak alternative to Epic Spellcasting... I'm intrigued at the method to creation level based spells
    Last edited by Arcanist; 2012-10-12 at 09:18 PM.

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    Default Re: Arcanist & Epic Arcanist [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanist View Post
    Heh... So I take it you like it? Any recommendations to make it balance out more compared to the Wizard? The Arcanist is meant to be a Wizard thick and thin (albeit a little different) so I'd rather not add more Class features then their already are (Field Specialization, Bonus feats and Improved Spell Capacity). I was going to make the class start out with 2 spells memorized and then progress at 2 more per level, however at early levels this scales terrible making it only worth while to play at levels 12-20 (where it actually out cast the Psion)... Any recommendations?
    I find it to be good as it is. Yeah it has a bit more power than the wizard but that's because it should have, it's a Netherese Arcanist, so I wouldn't change anything.

    I own a hard copy of Netheril: Empire of Magic and am trying to get my hands on a few copies of other 2nd edition books (Dreams of the Red Wizards and Cormanthyr: Empire of Elves).

    At the moment I'm trying to recreate a 3.5 Edition recreate of Netheril: Empire of Magic, however due to real life issues (School, Friends, Family, Significant Other) I'm kind of delayed on the project... I'm tried my hand at remaking the class with an idea I had after seeing how imbalanced the other remakes were
    I'd like to see the completed project.
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    Default Re: Arcanist & Epic Arcanist [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Wavelab View Post
    I find it to be good as it is. Yeah it has a bit more power than the wizard but that's because it should have, it's a Netherese Arcanist, so I wouldn't change anything.
    Excellent

    Quote Originally Posted by Wavelab View Post
    I'd like to see the completed project.
    In the future my friend! (most likely next spring...)

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    Default Re: Arcanist & Epic Arcanist [PEACH]

    this looks like you could just make a prc... I mean, it is limited to one race, something no base class should be. Hell, a master specialist esque prestige class starting at level 4 would work...
    Avatar by Szilard, thank you sir for the fine work!

    my home brew. you should PEACH them...
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    Default Re: Arcanist & Epic Arcanist [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by bobthe6th View Post
    this looks like you could just make a prc... I mean, it is limited to one race, something no base class should be. Hell, a master specialist esque prestige class starting at level 4 would work...
    I made the class have a base requirement for a race because of the nature of a class. It is supposed to be exclusive to Humans from Netherese, otherwise you would have Elves playing as Arcanist and it just wouldn't make sense, because fluff wise it would be... Silly

    For the sake of this homebrew I will remove it

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    Default Re: Arcanist & Epic Arcanist [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanist View Post
    I made the class have a base requirement for a race because of the nature of a class. It is supposed to be exclusive to Humans from Netherese, otherwise you would have Elves playing as Arcanist and it just wouldn't make sense, because fluff wise it would be... Silly

    For the sake of this homebrew I will remove it
    base classes as a rule are meant to be fluffless, or at least the fluff is generic. Again, I would suggest a)making this racial substitution levels wizard for netheriese humans, or b)making it a prestige class for netheriese wizards.
    Avatar by Szilard, thank you sir for the fine work!

    my home brew. you should PEACH them...
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    Default Re: Arcanist & Epic Arcanist [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by bobthe6th View Post
    base classes as a rule are meant to be fluffless, or at least the fluff is generic. Again, I would suggest a)making this racial substitution levels wizard for netheriese humans, or b)making it a prestige class for netheriese wizards.
    I actually think the race if fine as is, it's meant to be based on Netherese Arcanists who were trained from birth to be good, so changing it wouldn't make much sense.
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    Default Re: Arcanist & Epic Arcanist [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Wavelab View Post
    I actually think the race if fine as is, it's meant to be based on Netherese Arcanists who were trained from birth to be good, so changing it wouldn't make much sense.
    I removed the racial requirement since the Terraseer is technically considered an Arcanist and everyone knows that he (they) isn't (aren't) human so eh...

    It's all the same really. If you want to use the Arcanist class instead of a Wizard then it is completely reasonable to do so since in essence the Arcanist is a Wizard that uses the Spell point variant and is able to use Metamagic that require a 10th level spell slot much more easily.

    In the long run I think I should just make it so that Caster level actually means something for this class beyond effecting how much damage a Fireball does and make it so that it can actually do something neat...

    Hmm... Might make it so that Spells that deal damage based on on a # of dice can be augmented as a Psionic power can

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    Default Re: Arcanist & Epic Arcanist [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Wavelab View Post
    I'd like to see the completed project.
    Oh god... I just realized that I have to recreate the Netherese Priesthood...

    This is going to take longer then I thought... Needing to divide all the Cleric spells into domains, bump them down to a 7th level spell progression limit and compose it all into a Spell point system progression

    And then I have to re-organize all the spells into Domains, organize them under specific gods and then assign domains to deities... Hmm... might use that Cleric Spell point variant I saw once upon a moon (making adjustments of course)

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    Default Re: Arcanist & Epic Arcanist [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanist View Post
    Oh god... I just realized that I have to recreate the Netherese Priesthood...

    This is going to take longer then I thought... Needing to divide all the Cleric spells into domains, bump them down to a 7th level spell progression limit and compose it all into a Spell point system progression

    And then I have to re-organize all the spells into Domains, organize them under specific gods and then assign domains to deities... Hmm... might use that Cleric Spell point variant I saw once upon a moon (making adjustments of course)
    Do you really have to bring the Clerics back to the domains and 7th level spells? Where the Netherese Priest that different from 3.X incarnations other than that? Personally, and this is only if they know and cast spells similar to the Arcanist, I'd stick with specific spells known for generic Clericness, and your Domain choices be not as focused as their are now, like the Death domain having Cleric Necromancy, (Death), and (Undead Creation[a new subtype for simplicities sake), under it's purview, adding those spells to your list. With other domains, or even this one, you don't have to stick to just the cleric list, but if you do go this route, limit to 1-3 spells each level for off-list spells.
    Again, suggestion is only useful if this is how I think the class runs, so take it as you will.
    Last edited by Dante & Vergil; 2012-10-15 at 09:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Arcanist & Epic Arcanist [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dante & Vergil View Post
    Do you really have to bring the Clerics back to the domains and 7th level spells? Where the Netherese Priest that different from 3.X incarnations other than that? Personally, and this is only if they know and cast spells similar to the Arcanist, I'd stick with specific spells known for generic Clericness, and your Domain choices be not as focused as their are now, like the Death domain having Cleric Necromancy, (Death), and (Undead Creation[a new subtype for simplicities sake), under it's purview, adding those spells to your list. With other domains, or even this one, you don't have to stick to just the cleric list, but if you do go this route, limit to 1-3 spells each level for off-list spells.
    Again, suggestion is only useful if this is how I think the class runs, so take it as you will.
    Clerics were much more under powered in Netheril. They didn't have a general Cleric spell list like they do in 3.X, they were simply stuck with their domains and thats it (not even granting Domain powers).

    I'm tempted to just go with your idea on that matter, with allowing them access to spells under certain descriptors and schools of magic and assigning them to certain Gods, however the problem I mentally come back to is that certain domains will still trump other domains. I'd like to see a Cleric Domain fix to see if it would be even worth while to implement or adjust to my needs.

    Obviously, I'll be making these casters Spell Point variants on the Psion progression. At the moment I'm considering just keeping the Cleric as is and putting them on that Spell Point Progression

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    Default Re: Arcanist & Epic Arcanist [PEACH]

    Someone forgot to post the table for bonus Arc's.
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    Default Re: Arcanist & Epic Arcanist [PEACH]

    Well put-together class, I'd say. I tried my hand at this a while back, but you've nailed it far more squarely than I did. I support the decision to eliminate the racial requirement. Terraseer(s) notwithstanding, techinically, by RAW, any of the Arcanists that have since become undead would no longer qualify for their own base class...which is silly.

    Also, that way, the class can simply be refluffed for a different setting altogether.

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    Default Re: Arcanist & Epic Arcanist [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by IKilledTheDevil View Post
    Someone forgot to post the table for bonus Arc's.
    I fixed that when you mentioned it. Silly me

    Quote Originally Posted by Dainbramaged01 View Post
    Well put-together class, I'd say. I tried my hand at this a while back, but you've nailed it far more squarely than I did. I support the decision to eliminate the racial requirement. Terraseer(s) notwithstanding, techinically, by RAW, any of the Arcanists that have since become undead would no longer qualify for their own base class...which is silly.

    Also, that way, the class can simply be refluffed for a different setting altogether.
    I liked making this class so much that I made it twice. I'll adjust the class to show the changes made there, but keep it for 3.5 (the 2nd one is made for Pathfinder and made to be much more powerful then it currently is).
    Last edited by Arcanist; 2012-12-02 at 09:37 PM.

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    Default Re: Arcanist & Epic Arcanist [PEACH]

    Hey something of note is because you took out the ability to use the extra spell feat to gain spells from the forbidden specialization that means that some things are now imposable, such as making an Iron Golem which use's spells from all three! And some DM's may chose to rule that you can't get anyone to help you enchant the Golem and in setting's that don't have the traditional Wizard class then the Arcanist can't even fall back on Manual's because those are magic items, and as such need all the spells to be made which are of coarse, as I've said impossible.
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    Default Re: Arcanist & Epic Arcanist [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by IKilledTheDevil View Post
    Hey something of note is because you took out the ability to use the extra spell feat to gain spells from the forbidden specialization that means that some things are now imposable, such as making an Iron Golem which use's spells from all three! And some DM's may chose to rule that you can't get anyone to help you enchant the Golem and in setting's that don't have the traditional Wizard class then the Arcanist can't even fall back on Manual's because those are magic items, and as such need all the spells to be made which are of coarse, as I've said impossible.
    It's not so much that I removed it as I simply forgot to add it back in Another thing to note is that you can simply buy a scroll and use it for the production of the Golem since the Arcanist has Use Magic Device and the spells are still on there list of spells, they just can't cast them.
    Last edited by Arcanist; 2012-12-12 at 05:17 PM.

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    Default Re: Arcanist & Epic Arcanist [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanist View Post
    Cormanthyr: Empire of Elves).

    it will not give you much infos about the Netherese Arcanists class, just that the Nether Scrolls were stolen by High Mage elves and the scrolls transformed into a sentient golden tree giving arcane knowledge to those meditating on it...


    Elves has a kind of dual specialist called Dualist.

    mostly, a modern dual specialist wizard limited to one school and its opposite only !

    they master only 2 schools, example : Illusion & Necromancy; gaining 2 bonus specialist spell/day; and some other benefits. Far less powerful than Arcanists but this is the entry to the High Mage , master of High Magic able to torn the world.
    Last edited by umbrapolaris; 2013-04-13 at 07:31 AM.
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    Default Re: Arcanist & Epic Arcanist [PEACH]

    Do love! I've always loved the whole Netherese history. Just for grins and giggles I made a 50th level Netherese character with her own enclave and stuff. This class suits so much better than the regular wizzy.

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    Default Re: Arcanist & Epic Arcanist [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by umbrapolaris View Post
    it will not give you much infos about the Netherese Arcanists class, just that the Nether Scrolls were stolen by High Mage elves and the scrolls transformed into a sentient golden tree giving arcane knowledge to those meditating on it...
    I am aware of the Quess'Ar'Teranthvar

    Personally, as far as obtaining knowledge from the Nether Scrolls, I'd rather travel back in time and read from them than go through the whole process of tracking down all the volumes.

    Quote Originally Posted by umbrapolaris View Post
    Elves has a kind of dual specialist called Dualist.

    mostly, a modern dual specialist wizard limited to one school and its opposite only !

    they master only 2 schools, example : Illusion & Necromancy; gaining 2 bonus specialist spell/day; and some other benefits. Far less powerful than Arcanists but this is the entry to the High Mage , master of High Magic able to torn the world.
    So... A Dual Specialized Wizard that bans two schools for each specialization... Might function better as an Alternate class feature then a class of its own

    I found a guy willing to part ways with his book and it's in the mail so I'll be getting it in a few weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Silvernale View Post
    Do love! I've always loved the whole Netherese history. Just for grins and giggles I made a 50th level Netherese character with her own enclave and stuff. This class suits so much better than the regular wizzy.
    Heh... Thanks I have been into the idea of Arcane Supremacy and when I got into D&D, we first started with D&D playing a FR game and eventually we started playing a Netherese Game using the Wizard class. I hated using the Wizard after finding about the Arcanist. After looking around on the internet I found Arcanist classes based on the Netherese and bam... The rest is as they say, history

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    Default Re: Arcanist & Epic Arcanist [PEACH]

    I'd suggest at 20th level they get a capstone ability. Maybe something like this:

    Netherese High Magic: At 20th level, the arcanist has attained their first step into becoming a legitimate archwizard. You gain access to 10th level weave depth (10th level spell slots) and are given an ornate grimoire containing Proctive's Move Mountain and the instructions for enchanting a mythallar (treat as a one-use item creation feat). Once your enclave is created, or at least flying, you are recognized as a fully-fledged archwizard and may continue your study of high arcana.

    It makes a nice bridge into becoming epic level and keeps with the Netherese traditions.

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    Default Re: Arcanist & Epic Arcanist [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Silvernale View Post
    I'd suggest at 20th level they get a capstone ability. Maybe something like this:

    Netherese High Magic: At 20th level, the arcanist has attained their first step into becoming a legitimate archwizard. You gain access to 10th level weave depth (10th level spell slots) and are given an ornate grimoire containing Proctive's Move Mountain and the instructions for enchanting a mythallar (treat as a one-use item creation feat). Once your enclave is created, or at least flying, you are recognized as a fully-fledged archwizard and may continue your study of high arcana.

    It makes a nice bridge into becoming epic level and keeps with the Netherese traditions.
    WELL, The Arcanist, as it is, already gains access to 10th level spells. For the Arcanist it doesn't stop at 9th level spells. It advances every 10 levels, granting Improved Spell Capacity as a bonus feat to gain an additional Weave Depth, etc.

    I'm not going to make the Arcanist an automatic Archwizard at level 20 since it was effectively a choice to become an Archwizard. Becoming one was defined as an Arcanist who successfully severed a mountain from the ground, lifted it, inverted it and placed a Mythallar (that they do not necessarily HAVE to create) and creating an appealing city to attract citizens.


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    Prior to the dawn of the Golden Age, creating an Enclave was STILL difficult despite Ioulaum having created his Enclave and published his finding. It wasn't until the Spell, Proctiv's Move Mountain (in 1746 NY, aka THE GOLDEN AGE) was produced that it the Golden Age TRULY began.

    To note: Ioulaum could NOT have created Xinlenal until after Chronomancer created the Reverse Gravity spell (during the Golden Age) and Yturn’s Levitation spell (Roughly 1,000 years after) since they are described as being used in his original method for Enclave creation.

    Ignoring that BLARING hole in the History of Netheril (however hard that is for me), it is entirely possible for Ioulaum to have created his Enclave during the Mythallar Age (866 NY)... Ugh... My soul...


    Regardless of my whining and ranting I see no reason for the Arcanist to automatically be granted access to Epic Spell at 20th level. I might perhaps make it more reasonable to have it so that they can use 10th level Arcs (19 Arcs) to power an Epic level spell, if they know it (which they can't since it is an Epic feat and I plan to leave it that way).

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    Default Re: Arcanist & Epic Arcanist [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanist View Post
    So... A Dual Specialized Wizard that bans two schools for each specialization... Might function better as an Alternate class feature then a class of its own
    in fact, the elves has a kind of philosophy with schools; you don't ban 6 schools but you choose to master 2 schools exclusively.

    - Conjuration & Divination: those called Di-jakkar look upon magic and the Weave as a Great Tunnel connecting Toril to all other planes and worlds; they simply draw either ephemeral thoughts or actual things through the Great Tunnel.

    these dualist gains improved specialist bonuses:

    +2 spells/day per spell level
    +2 new spells obtained at each new level of experience,
    +2 to saves

    etc...
    Last edited by umbrapolaris; 2013-04-13 at 11:35 PM.
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    Default Re: Arcanist & Epic Arcanist [PEACH]

    Well I just read a lot of Netheril stuff again today and it just feels like the goal of -every- arcanist is to become an archwizard. Plus if I understand it correctly, "epic" spells didn't even exist until -after- Karsus' Folly. Before that it was just spells exceeding 9th level. I'm not saying at 20th level they automatically become an archwizard, just that its the first steps to that goal.

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    Default Re: Arcanist & Epic Arcanist [PEACH]

    yep, no epic spell, just extraordinary powerful spell of level 10+, for example "Karsus Avatar" (the spell that destroyed him and Mystril) is a 12th level spell.

    Archwizard is just a title when they are able to create their own floating enclave. It doesn't give much more benefit other than renown.
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    Default Re: Arcanist & Epic Arcanist [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by umbrapolaris View Post
    in fact, the elves has a kind of philosophy with schools; you don't ban 6 schools but you choose to master 2 schools exclusively.

    - Conjuration & Divination: those called Di-jakkar look upon magic and the Weave as a Great Tunnel connecting Toril to all other planes and worlds; they simply draw either ephemeral thoughts or actual things through the Great Tunnel.

    these dualist gains improved specialist bonuses:

    +2 spells/day per spell level
    +2 new spells obtained at each new level of experience,
    +2 to saves

    etc...
    Interesting... I can understand how the bonus spells per day and the bonus spells per level work, but I don't understand the Saves. Perhaps, I'll learn more once I get my book.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silvernale View Post
    Well I just read a lot of Netheril stuff again today and it just feels like the goal of -every- arcanist is to become an archwizard. Plus if I understand it correctly, "epic" spells didn't even exist until -after- Karsus' Folly. Before that it was just spells exceeding 9th level. I'm not saying at 20th level they automatically become an archwizard, just that its the first steps to that goal.
    Epic spells did exist prior to the Fall of Netheril, however the Netherese largely abandoned them upon the discovery of the Nether Scrolls (LoEF Page 43 "Mystra's Ban and Epic Magic"). Not every Arcanist dreamed of becoming an Archwizard, but I'm not going to deny I'd be hardpressed to find one who didn't want to be one. I'd also like to note that there were Arcanist who founded Enclaves that weren't Flying Enclaves (Deep Netheril was entirely made up of Enclaves that were, quite literally, Underground and certain Enclaves on Low Netheril did in fact exist, but were ironically enough still on top of Mountains for the most part.)

    Getting back to Epic Spells. After the discovery of the Nether Scrolls, it was mostly associated with the Fair Folk (Elves).

    Quote Originally Posted by umbrapolaris View Post
    Archwizard is just a title when they are able to create their own floating enclave. It doesn't give much more benefit other than renown.
    So a +2 renown bonus if you are playing with that subsystem? A +2 leadership bonus? To be completely blunt there aren't many benefits for being an Archwizard beyond just being incredibly awesome amongst the Academic community in Netheril (and to be quite fair everywhere after the Fall, considering how valued ancient Netherese knowledge is worth post-fall).

    You can accomplish, for the most part, all of the benefits of being an Archwizard without creating a Floating Enclave. If you would like for me to create rules for creating an Enclave (floating or otherwise), I'd be quite honored to perform the task
    Last edited by Arcanist; 2013-04-14 at 03:12 AM.

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