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    Default The "Best" Flaws

    As most of you know, taking flaws gives you 1 bonus feat per flaw. Which makes a great trade-off. And of course the limit is 2 flaws.

    The question: Which 2 flaws are the "best" to take?

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    Default Re: The "Best" Flaws

    Shaky on anyone that isn't going for a ranged build is just a free feat.

    Likewise, Vulnerable on someone like a Wizard. Pathetic can also be this to the full-casters.
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    Default Re: The "Best" Flaws

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard View Post
    Shaky on anyone that isn't going for a ranged build is just a free feat.

    Likewise, Vulnerable on someone like a Wizard. Pathetic can also be this to the full-casters.
    basically. Any flaws that dont really affect your gameplay.

    Also, Chicken Infested, getting a wish to replace your 1st level of commoner


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    Default Re: The "Best" Flaws

    I am actually quite fond of the Dragon Mag flaws, if they are allowed. I have a code of arms or whatever pair that I would take penalty for using non-martial weapons, or attacking people who were not armed or didn't attack me.

    Shaky is also nice.
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    Default Re: The "Best" Flaws

    Vulnerable is my go-to for pretty much any character. AC isn't that important, since there are many other ways of avoiding death. After that, non-combatant is good for casters, while shaky is nice for melee people.
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    Default Re: The "Best" Flaws

    Well, it comes down to taste.

    There are plenty of Flaws like Fussy (You can't drink potions, oh no!) and Forlorn (You mean I don't have to lug a waterballoon full of XP Familiar around and I get a free feat? Best. Flaw. Ever.) from Dragon Magazine which don't really impact your character negatively at all. So from that sense, any Flaw which gives an inconsequential mechanical penalty or only comes up in rare circumstances is best.

    On the other hand, Flaws like Implacable (You take a -2 to everything for a few hours if you ever run away from a fight) or Frail are good because they're fun to roleplay around and support character concepts while giving extra Feats to fill out your build. From that perspective, which is best depends on the character concept you are trying to portray.

    Either way, Google yourself up a list of Dragon Magazine Flaws and go through it. I can't link it myself because of site rules, but it's easy to find and pretty well formatted.

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    Default Re: The "Best" Flaws

    Pathetic. Dump either Str, Int, or Cha, and you're set.
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    Default Re: The "Best" Flaws

    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    Well, it comes down to taste.

    There are plenty of Flaws like Fussy (You can't drink potions, oh no!) and Forlorn (You mean I don't have to lug a waterballoon full of XP Familiar around and I get a free feat? Best. Flaw. Ever.) from Dragon Magazine which don't really impact your character negatively at all. So from that sense, any Flaw which gives an inconsequential mechanical penalty or only comes up in rare circumstances is best.

    On the other hand, Flaws like Implacable (You take a -2 to everything for a few hours if you ever run away from a fight) or Frail are good because they're fun to roleplay around and support character concepts while giving extra Feats to fill out your build. From that perspective, which is best depends on the character concept you are trying to portray.

    Either way, Google yourself up a list of Dragon Magazine Flaws and go through it. I can't link it myself because of site rules, but it's easy to find and pretty well formatted.
    Forlorn can be a pretty good flaw. Familiars are REALLY/can get strong. But you get the idea. The Dragon flaws are so much better for RP, IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

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    Default Re: The "Best" Flaws

    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    Forlorn (You mean I don't have to lug a waterballoon full of XP Familiar around and I get a free feat? Best. Flaw. Ever.) from Dragon Magazine which don't really impact your character negatively at all.
    It does depend on character, but there are a lot of good ACF's for familiars out there that I'd prefer to a lvl 1 feat.

    I mostly agree with above posters, though I'd prefer non-combatant over shaky for most wizard types.
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    Default Re: The "Best" Flaws

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenix_of_Doom View Post
    I mostly agree with above posters, though I'd prefer non-combatant over shaky for most wizard types.
    Definitely, a wizard should never take shaky, unless you're planning on ditching ray-spells and the like completely.
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    Default Re: The "Best" Flaws

    Murky eyed on anything that doesn't have to deal with concealment pretty much rocks. The one that dumps spot and listen is pretty awesome when you've already tanked it.
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    Default Re: The "Best" Flaws

    We once had a party where all 3 of us took the flaw that dumps Spot/Listen when we were playing with a DM who had a habit of asking for unnecessary Spot checks all the time (you know, like: "Ah, a spot of 18. Tim sees a man walking down the road towards you, waving his arms in a friendly manner.").

    He'd call for a Spot check, and we'd have results of 6, 3, and -2. And we'd still succeed on them, of course :P
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    Default Re: The "Best" Flaws

    the pathetic flaw. -2 to one ability for a bonus feat. Pathetic flaw your un needed abilitys

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    Default Re: The "Best" Flaws

    Quote Originally Posted by dwlc2000 View Post
    the pathetic flaw. -2 to one ability for a bonus feat. Pathetic flaw your un needed abilitys
    Pathetic is the Worst flaw. It mostly precludes the ability to spend all of your points elsewhere, since your total Mods can not better better than +8 BEFORE you take the flaw. You can't take it if you roll well, either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

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    Default Re: The "Best" Flaws

    Inattentive, if you have uncanny dodge and are not the party scout, is awesome.

    Poor Reflexes hits the save no one cares about.

    Shaky for a melee guy who can fly; Noncombatant for a caster that doesn't gish.

    Anyone that can fly in tactical situations doesn't give a rat's *** about Slow.

    Murky-Eyed doesn't matter to many spellcasters, and is unique in that unlike all the others, it is equal and opposite to a feat for the most party (Blind-Fight), so you could always just use it to get another critical feat to start with, then when you've gotten all the ones you need, just pick up Blind-Fight to negate it.
    Last edited by StreamOfTheSky; 2012-10-14 at 06:20 PM.

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    Default Re: The "Best" Flaws

    If magical locations aren't allowed and I need Iron Will (for pre-requisites) I like to take Weak Willed to get Iron Will if only for the irony value.
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    Default Re: The "Best" Flaws

    Quote Originally Posted by Akal Saris View Post
    He'd call for a Spot check, and we'd have results of 6, 3, and -2. And we'd still succeed on them, of course :P
    I'm not so kind a DM. If you fail your Spot check (with appropriate circumstance modifiers) and still can't make out the guy who's hitting you in melee combat, then tough cookies. You can attack squares blindly, just as anyone else following the rules is required to do.

    Flaws aren't just free feats.
    Whereas a feat enables a character to be better than normal at performing a task (or even to do something that normal characters can't), a flaw restricts a character's capabilities or imposes a penalty of some sort.

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    Default Re: The "Best" Flaws

    Poor flight. Took it for my dragon, not like I'd ever be nimble in the air anyway, and it technically will become a flaw with no penalty if the game runs long enough. Dragons lose maneuverability with size anyway.

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    Default Re: The "Best" Flaws

    Forlorn is excellent, assuming you want to keep your familiar and plan on PrCing. After all, Obtain Familiar > Regular Familiar.
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    Default Re: The "Best" Flaws

    Quote Originally Posted by Rubik View Post
    Forlorn is excellent, assuming you want to keep your familiar and plan on PrCing. After all, Obtain Familiar > Regular Familiar.
    True, but immediate magic is generally stronger than a feat as are several of the ACF's from Unearthed Arcana. On several occasions I've taken one of those ACFs then taken the superior familiar from the feat.

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    Default Re: The "Best" Flaws

    Definitely Chicken Infested. Take it, grab Quick Draw, and carry around a bag of pebbles wherever you go. Whenever you are attacked in an enclosed space, just quick draw the pebbles, one at a time, and drop them. Half of them will turn out to be chickens, and you can flood a room with chickens in mere seconds.

    Of course, you should probably make sure you've got a high reflex save, as your DM WILL throw a book at you at this point.
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    Default Re: The "Best" Flaws

    -4 to spot and -4 to listen in my campaigns are suicide for one simply reason.

    These girls.

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    Meet the shadowrunners. A group of DARK Changeling Assassins, many who have deathstalker levels instead of assassin levels.

    +8 to hide, +6 move silent, +10 disguise.

    If you take that flaw in my setting, NEVER piss off a noble or crime lord or your throat WILL be slit in the night. Their top member is level 20+. With deathstalker and legacy champion levels, AND she has unseelie fey's winter chill ability. Basically her DC is 10 + 2*class level + charisma*2.

    Hell even being a wizard won't save you. Some of the killers have bloody Vecna blooded template. Assassins do cast ARCANE spells after all.

    Edit: my point basically being that many of the flaws are DM dependant. I'm seriously considering cutting flaws all together and just giving everyone bonus feats for free.
    Last edited by Morithias; 2012-10-15 at 01:54 AM.

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    Default Re: The "Best" Flaws

    Ksheep, so far, of the people who have said chicken infested, this was the second best use of it so far.

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    Default Re: The "Best" Flaws

    Quote Originally Posted by Ksheep View Post
    Definitely Chicken Infested. Take it, grab Quick Draw, and carry around a bag of pebbles wherever you go. Whenever you are attacked in an enclosed space, just quick draw the pebbles, one at a time, and drop them. Half of them will turn out to be chickens, and you can flood a room with chickens in mere seconds.

    Of course, you should probably make sure you've got a high reflex save, as your DM WILL throw a book at you at this point.
    Even better, combine Infested with Chickens with the Delicious flaw, and start as the tiniest race you can manage. Encourage any foe capable of swallowing you to do so, and proceed to fill its craw with chickens.

    Poultry in motion equals poultry explosion.

    Also known as The Hen Grenade.
    Last edited by Rubik; 2012-10-15 at 01:25 AM.
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    Default Re: The "Best" Flaws

    Quote Originally Posted by Rubik View Post
    Even better, combine Infested with Chickens with the Delicious flaw, and start as the tiniest race you can manage. Encourage any foe capable of swallowing you to do so, and proceed to fill its craw with chickens.

    Poultry in motion equals poultry explosion.

    Also known as The Hen Grenade.
    That's beautiful, I'd be tempted to try that expect I think my DM would drop his whole bookshelf on me, never mind just throwing the DMG at me :P

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    Default Re: The "Best" Flaws

    Quote Originally Posted by TypoNinja View Post
    That's beautiful, I'd be tempted to try that expect I think my DM would drop his whole bookshelf on me, never mind just throwing the DMG at me :P
    I wouldn't if I was him. If the DM is chicken infested, he'll end up having chickens everywhere if he tries to unload a bookshelf's inventory that way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

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    Default Re: The "Best" Flaws

    Quote Originally Posted by TypoNinja View Post
    That's beautiful, I'd be tempted to try that expect I think my DM would drop his whole bookshelf on me, never mind just throwing the DMG at me :P
    On the plus side, since you're Delicious, just see if he'll swallow you as a distraction.

    ...if you're into that kind of thing, anyway.
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    Default Re: The "Best" Flaws

    At one time I DMed a oneshot where the Dwarf took Inattentive (the -6 to Initiative) and Slow. A dwarf with 3m movement rate... never mind he had an ac of 26 on level 1... (yes all rules legal). The Ogre Boss couldn't hurt him... or better said he hitted him once... for minimal damage.

    On another campaign same player builded a Goliath Barbarian. With traits and flaws and ****... in the end he came to a effective strenght of 30 in rage on level 3 (LA buyoff in play). And then went for Ubercharger. Rerolled to an Artificer afterwards but it was pretty fun as he molded the flaws pretty well into his build so they were there but really imposed something while not really hindering his purpose.

    DnDwiki... has some jewels as well but not to get a feat... we used them just as plothooks for our characters most of the time as some of them are really stupid. For example the cup size ones and such stuff...
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    Default Re: The "Best" Flaws

    Quote Originally Posted by Rubik View Post
    On the plus side, since you're Delicious, just see if he'll swallow you as a distraction.

    ...if you're into that kind of thing, anyway.
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    Default Re: The "Best" Flaws

    Note that all of the flaws in various issues of Dragon magazine which were designed with a specific race/class in mind start the article with a disclaimer that anyone who qualifies for those flaws can take them, not just members of that class/race. Here are some easy choices:

    City Slicker (324 p93) gives a penalty to Handle Animal, Survival, and Wild Empathy, and only requires Survival as a class skill (most of the racial paragon classes have that).

    No Time For Book Learning (324 p93) is one of my favorites, you're illiterate and can never learn to read or write, and take a penalty to all Knowledge checks except for Nature. No requirements.

    Bravado (328 p44) makes it so you can't use the withdraw action and can't benefit from Dodge bonuses to AC. No requirements.

    Curious (328 p43) gives -2 to Spot, Listen, and initiative, no requirements.

    Insomniac (328 p43) forces Fort saves with various modifiers (comfort, etc.) to be able to sleep properly, or suffer fatigue/exhaustion. You can still prepare/recover spells after 8 hours of fitful rest, so on a character immune to fatigue/exhaustion (Necropolitan) or can easily remove it (Lesser Restoration) there's no actual drawback. No requirements.

    Skulker (328 p44) forces a Will save or be Shaken whenever you're in a square threatened by a foe, which lasts until you're no longer in any opponents' threatened square. Any immunity to fear outright negates that, no requirements.

    Aligned Devotion (326 p91) makes it so your spells of the healing subschool have a reduced effect on targets of different alignments from your own, but it requires you to be able to spontaneously cast Cure spells. Any spontaneous caster who knows at least one Cure spell (Bard, Favored Soul) could take it, though a Bard would have to be starting 2nd level or higher to take this one at character creation.

    Hot Blooded and Cold Blooded (324 p93) make you automatically fail Fort saves for environment effects for the opposite, and Fire/Cold-based effects deal +2 damage to you. Endure Elements negates one drawback, and a flat +2 damage isn't a big deal especially if you have a corresponding resistance (know the Haze of Smoldering Stone spell, for example). No requirements.

    Bestial Instinct (324 p93) makes you take a penalty to hit with anything but natural weapons or unarmed strikes. I guess it includes touch attacks for spells, but no biggie. No requirements.

    Love of Nature (324 p93) forces an easy Will save each time you try to attack a creature of the Animal, Plant, or Vermin type or you lose the action, no requirements.

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