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    Metahuman1's Avatar

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    Default Need some help with a Psionic Gish.

    Ok, so I'm gonna attempt to get into a game here on the play ground, assuming I end up with enough time and energy to get the character off the ground in time. (Work and family stuff running a lot of interference, but anyway.)


    I'm attempting to build a Psionic Gish, 9th lvl Gestalt, 28 point buy stat generation, with the idea that Racial Hit Dice and Level Adjustment should be at least part of one side of the Gestalt. My first though was Psi-warrior/Monk using that feat that lets you stack the two for powers and unarmed damage progression and such. But then I figured out the characters personality, and it just doesn't feel like it's gonna fit well with a Wisdom Focus for Power progression.

    So, I need a way to make a Psi-warrior use Cha as there Manifesting Stat if one exists.

    I'm also looking at using Decisive Strike in place of Flurry of Blows, is this a good idea or is Flurry still a better bet? And I'm thinking Monk 6/ Psionic class 3 for one half of the Gestalt to get improved Trip. Is this a good idea, or am I better off just making it Monk 2 and picking up Combat Expertise to get Improved Trip?

    For the other half of the Gestalt, I'm gonna have some level adjustments form some Templates, Half Minotaur and I think I'll add one or two others, maybe a dip into Incarnum for a couple of tricks, and the rest will be levels in Tome of battle classes. Probably mostly Crusader for the whole "Just won't die" effect, with a dip into Warblade and Swordsage. Warblade for Iron Heart and Diamond Mind Goodies like Iron Heart Surge, Wall of Blades, and the concentration check in place of Saves line, And Swordsage for some Setting sun Counters and the Obligatory Mountain Hammer.

    Anyway, thoughts and Input would be very helpful, as Psionics is not a sub-system I have a lot of familiarity with.


    Oh, and one more thing, it's an Eberron Game.
    "I Burn!"

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    Default Re: Need some help with a Psionic Gish.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    So, I need a way to make a Psi-warrior use Cha as there Manifesting Stat if one exists.
    That's going to be a problem. Psionics give even less flexibility for base casting stats than spellcasting. You could make a very effective gish with an Educated Wilder with Shifter substitution levels, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    I'm also looking at using Decisive Strike in place of Flurry of Blows, is this a good idea or is Flurry still a better bet?
    It depends what you're going for. Decisive Strike is very useful in AoO-based builds (especially using Dimension Hop or Hustle for mobility), but Flurry makes better use of bonus damage in a damage-based Striker-type build.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    And I'm thinking Monk 6/ Psionic class 3 for one half of the Gestalt to get improved Trip. Is this a good idea, or am I better off just making it Monk 2 and picking up Combat Expertise to get Improved Trip?
    It's a very bad idea. Passive Way Monk gets Improved Trip in 2 levels, without the stat requirement and without crippling your manifesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    For the other half of the Gestalt, I'm gonna have some level adjustments form some Templates, Half Minotaur and I think I'll add one or two others, maybe a dip into Incarnum for a couple of tricks, and the rest will be levels in Tome of battle classes. Probably mostly Crusader for the whole "Just won't die" effect, with a dip into Warblade and Swordsage.
    It sounds like you're going to be spreading your initiating pretty thin. ToB is forgiving for multiclassing, but its abilities are still level-dependent. If you're throwing a template on that side, you'll probably want to pick either Warblade (for a great psigish maneuver selection) or Crusader (for the improved recovery mechanic) and dip around as little as possible.

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    Default Re: Need some help with a Psionic Gish.

    The only Charisma-based manifester is the wilder. They're decent gishes, but psywars are better. Even psions are better. However, neither of the latter work off of Cha.

    I believe there's a feat out there somewhere that will change your monk's abilities to Cha, so make yourself monk/wilder (no more than 11 levels in wilder, preferably less, so you don't get screwed by enervation)/anarchic initiate 9 or 10. Due to the wording of the Tashalatora feat, you can get away with 0 levels in monk if you want, since monk 0 is still a valid number to add to your wilder levels. There's a feat in CPsi called (IIRC) Enervation Endurance which will help with the issue of dealing with one of the worst "class features" ever made (but not THE worst), and you should probably consider some of the class variants in The Mind's Eye articles (especially Educated Wilder).
    Last edited by Rubik; 2012-10-15 at 03:59 PM.
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    Default Re: Need some help with a Psionic Gish.

    Ok Passive Way Monk Looks Tempting. Question about it though. If I retrain Combat Expertise after I get Improved Trip, can I keep Improved Trip?


    And another way of getting my Gishing off the ground might be to have a 16 Wis, and then just let it come out at random times when something the character actually knows, like martial arts philosophy, is in play. Do you guys think that would work, and if so, do you think 16 should be enough given that almost all my powers are gonna be either self buffs or utility tricks?


    And Incarnume serves two purposes. First, it gives me pounce through Sphixne claws, and second, it gives me the ability to get Midnight Augmentation and set up Incarnum Recharge Trick. This means I can drop points into things like Hussle with out having to worry about it, and as a result I get better check results, better damage, and some serious mobility. Unless I've missed something? (Serious question, I've never tried this before, my normal go too's for mobility are Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian and Cleric with Travel Devotion.)

    Also, about Decisive strike, does it work with Maneuvers? (I use Mountain Hammer let's say, does it double the damage on that, or is it a one or the other deal like Flurry of Blows?)
    "I Burn!"

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    Default Re: Need some help with a Psionic Gish.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    Ok Passive Way Monk Looks Tempting. Question about it though. If I retrain Combat Expertise after I get Improved Trip, can I keep Improved Trip?
    If you're using PHB2 retraining, that's an interesting question.

    I believe by strict RAW it's legal (not having Combat Expertise doesn't make other feats in the build illegal, and the variant class does allow the normal Stunning Fist/Improved Grapple feat selections), but it goes against the spirit of the retraining rules (which are filled with limitations to keep a retrained character within the limits of what would be legal on a build created from level 1 up).

    So I think it's technically legal, but only through a pretty clear loophole. Take that how you want.
    Do you guys think that would work, and if so, do you think 16 should be enough given that almost all my powers are gonna be either self buffs or utility tricks?
    Fluff-wise, a stat that encompasses a character's hearing, bull**** detector and sailing skills is nebulous enough that you could probably spin it however you like.

    There's nothing wrong with a starting 16 manifesting stat.

    And Incarnume serves two purposes. First, it gives me pounce through Sphixne claws, and second, it gives me the ability to get Midnight Augmentation and set up Incarnum Recharge Trick.
    If the recharge exploit is within your group's comfortable optimization level, that works. That's a bit past what I'd call practical op, but YMMV.

    Midnight Augmentation doesn't have anything to do with levels in a meldshaping class, though. (I mean, I guess if you were using Soulborn, it would be relevant, since SB gets it as a bonus feat, but I'm going to assume that's not your plan.)

    There's nothing wrong with using Totemist for some natural weapons, but just be sure you're not spreading those ToB/MoI levels too thin - neither is entirely level-independent.
    Also, about Decisive strike, does it work with Maneuvers? (I use Mountain Hammer let's say, does it double the damage on that, or is it a one or the other deal like Flurry of Blows?)
    It's a full-round action, so it doesn't work with strikes (boosts are fair game, though). Also, extra damage dice aren't usually affected by damage multipliers (but flat bonuses are), so Mountain Hammer would have two problems.

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    Default Re: Need some help with a Psionic Gish.

    Right, so, flurry it is then.

    As for the Manifesting stat, it wouldn't just be starting there, it would be staying there. I'm not really worried about save DC's, and with the Recharge Trick, I'm less worried about PP supply, so I think it would be ok, but again, Psionics isn't my usual cup of tea, so that's an Issue.

    No, no Soulborn, just a level of Totemist to get Essenta and Sphinxe Claws for pounce and fueling Recharge. Maybe for another trick if I happen to find a nifty soul meld that can be used with out giving up the two main things.



    And that will move me on to my next question. 7th lvl Psi-warrior, 2nd lvl Monk, figure a 16 wis, and the Tashalatora feat. What are good powers to have known?

    Right now, what's got my eye, are Grip of Iron, Animal Affinity, Hustle, Expansion. What else should I be nabbing at this level.

    I'm also thinking of picking up a Psi-Crystal and using a feat to get Shared Pain in order to cut damage I take in half. Thoughts?
    "I Burn!"

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