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    Default [PF] Sneak Attacking with Non-Finessy Weapons

    I was wondering if the sneak attack feature may be used with weapons that aren't light and aren't rapiers. I thought that was the case, but looking at the SRD again seems to have removed that stipulation. I'm confused now. If I wanted to play, say, a Low Templar that wasn't originally a rogue, could I sneak attack with a longsword? Or am I basically limited to rapiers, short swords, and the like?

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    Default Re: [PF] Sneak Attacking with Non-Finessy Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Archpaladin Zousha View Post
    I was wondering if the sneak attack feature may be used with weapons that aren't light and aren't rapiers. I thought that was the case, but looking at the SRD again seems to have removed that stipulation. I'm confused now. If I wanted to play, say, a Low Templar that wasn't originally a rogue, could I sneak attack with a longsword? Or am I basically limited to rapiers, short swords, and the like?
    You can Sneak Attack with (almost) anything.

    Case in point: Skulking Slayer archetype. Part of it's schtick is Sneak Attacking with Two-handers.

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    Default Re: [PF] Sneak Attacking with Non-Finessy Weapons

    If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage.

    The rogue's attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied. Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.

    With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (like a sap, whip, or an unarmed strike), a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual 4 penalty.

    The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment.
    Nothing in this references Finesse at all. Might I ask what gave you the impression there was such a limitation?
    Edit: Because I know it didn't exist in 3.5, and if the Pathfinder guys had tried to add it it would have been all over the 'How did Pathfinder screw up?' threads.
    Last edited by tyckspoon; 2012-10-15 at 10:54 PM.

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    Default Re: [PF] Sneak Attacking with Non-Finessy Weapons

    So far as I can tell, that restriction never existed. I haven't been able to find the exact text for the 3.0 Sneak Attack, but in various discussions and things I've yet to find any reference to such a limitation.

    And before 3.0 Sneak Attack didn't even exist, being Backstab, right?

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    Default Re: [PF] Sneak Attacking with Non-Finessy Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Answerer View Post
    So far as I can tell, that restriction never existed. I haven't been able to find the exact text for the 3.0 Sneak Attack, but in various discussions and things I've yet to find any reference to such a limitation.

    And before 3.0 Sneak Attack didn't even exist, being Backstab, right?
    As someone who played 2e, that's right - it was Backstab, and it ALSO did not have any such limitation. Spears, whips, clubs, whatever.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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    Default Re: [PF] Sneak Attacking with Non-Finessy Weapons

    I could have sworn that somewhere it said something like "Rapiers can be used to sneak attack even though they're not a light weapon" or something.

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    Default Re: [PF] Sneak Attacking with Non-Finessy Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Archpaladin Zousha View Post
    I could have sworn that somewhere it said something like "Rapiers can be used to sneak attack even though they're not a light weapon" or something.
    You might be thinking of the rules on certain weapons where they can be Finessed despite not being light weapons - examples including rapiers, but also spiked chains.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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    Default Re: [PF] Sneak Attacking with Non-Finessy Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Archpaladin Zousha View Post
    I could have sworn that somewhere it said something like "Rapiers can be used to sneak attack even though they're not a light weapon" or something.
    I think you're confusing that with the clause that let Rapiers be used with Weapon Finesse, which is normally only for light weapons (and whips and chains).

    I remember the first D&D game I ran back in high school, the party rogue carried a Warmace to sneak attack with simply because it was funny.
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    Default Re: [PF] Sneak Attacking with Non-Finessy Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
    As someone who played 2e, that's right - it was Backstab, and it ALSO did not have any such limitation. Spears, whips, clubs, whatever.
    I thought you could only backstab with Thief weapons.

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    Default Re: [PF] Sneak Attacking with Non-Finessy Weapons

    You can backstab sneak attack with any weapon.
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    Default Re: [PF] Sneak Attacking with Non-Finessy Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell View Post
    I thought you could only backstab with Thief weapons.
    Not that I was aware of. Mind you, I was backstabbing as a bard using a short sword, and it was also something along the lines of thirteen years ago now, so my memory may be rusty.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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    Default Re: [PF] Sneak Attacking with Non-Finessy Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
    Not that I was aware of. Mind you, I was backstabbing as a bard using a short sword, and it was also something along the lines of thirteen years ago now, so my memory may be rusty.
    Backstab was really murky. There is a brazilian comic that lampshades it - a thief tried to backstab a dragon and the game stops because the DM says 'dragons don't have backs'.
    Anyway, a short sword is a thief weapon, so, yeah...
    How did you get backstab on your bard, was it from a kit?

    Now I'm kind of missing 2e.

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    Default Re: [PF] Sneak Attacking with Non-Finessy Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Archpaladin Zousha View Post
    I could have sworn that somewhere it said something like "Rapiers can be used to sneak attack even though they're not a light weapon" or something.
    I think I know where this came from. Did you ever play 4th Edition? because that's in 4e that you can only sneak attack with light weapons, IIRC. One of the only rules I cared for in 4e. Sometimes it gets a little silly. SA with a ballista, anyone?

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    Default Re: [PF] Sneak Attacking with Non-Finessy Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Mcdt2 View Post
    SA with a ballista, anyone?
    I see no problems, as long as your target is within 30ft.

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    Default Re: [PF] Sneak Attacking with Non-Finessy Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by grarrrg View Post
    I see no problems, as long as your target is within 30ft.
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    Default Re: [PF] Sneak Attacking with Non-Finessy Weapons

    It's been like this since 3.5, I think. In 4th, there were only a handful of weapons you could sneak attack with, so maybe you were thinking about that.
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    Default Re: [PF] Sneak Attacking with Non-Finessy Weapons

    ....I had a player sneak attack someone with a boat once. Dropped a rowboat on the fleeing captain's head. That same rogue used a greatsword.. so yeah.. I'm glad they never tried purchasing a cannon and attempting to lug it around.
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