Another "WHat if D&D Character would appear thread ... or not?

[GrayDeath]

Inspired by the obvious sources, I am going to post a slightly different situation (whom am I kidding, massively different^^).


What if, by a strange happenstance (namely some Epic Level Wizards form of entertainment) a small amount of people were transformed into D&D Characters, you among them?

Setting:

You are, probably with others, in a dangerous situation that might as well kill you, and probably loved ones.
Suddenly time stops and you are offered your choice of D&D Class and, if desired, up to LA+3 Race.
Assuming whoever is with you might or might not be similarly ... blessed, what would be your choice, and why?


Basics:
You use your "Real World" stats+any applicable bonuses (see below), but may reroll up to 3 (using r5k3), with rolling for the stat directly, and no way "back".
Your Level becomes 4. You gain all the normal Feats/Spells/etc of your Class, WBL only applies for magical Gear (including Potions and Scrolls, but no more than 1 per Level of Wizard, and no High Level Spells^^) you are given, and cannot be increased.
You may combine no more than 2 Classes at the Start (no Gestalting!!)
Classes come from PF (3.5 Prestige Classes are still fine, but Fluff requirements apply and cannot be negated), all Sources that are not Homebrew are allowed.
You may combine no more than 3 classes in total.
Aquiring of Templates is fine, but only 2 at most.
You are told that hesheit did it for entertainment, that others are "playing" too, and that you can expect to be ... challenged; enough to in all likeliness level quickly, but that also means you are unlikely to be able to choose/plan/craft/research carefully for a while at least.
If you do not choose one of the Template/supernatural Races you are assumed "Pathfinder Human" and gain all bonuses.

Important:
For this we assume that Magic works normally and Access to all the relevant Gods is suddenly possible (said Wizards have some cool Planechannelling thingamagiggy^^).
However there are no other "original" D&D Beings with Access aside from you (and others) eventually summoning them.



Limits/NoGo`s:
1.: There are no LowLevelWorldbreakers, either because the "Playing wizard" removes the thought for it from your mind, or because they do not work in our World. To truly break anything you have to wait AT LEAST until Planar Binding becomes naturally avaliable.
So no, no CoI Shennanigans. Includes Lucid Dreaming and any and all other Exploits that either build on stupid RAWing or are avaliable before Planar Binding (without shennanigans, see above).


2.: Research for Spells later on is possible, but if you choose Wizard or similar you are limited to the "autospells" and any that feats grant you for the imminent future.

3.: You know that others have been "chosen" as well, but have no Idea of who they are, and any and all Divinations you use to find out autofail (meaning you have to find them in mundane ways).

4.: Retraining is out.


So, what would you choose, and why?
And, even if only vaguely, what are your Levelup-Plans?

[Ruethgar]

Would Lucid Dreaming be removed under the first limitation?

[GrayDeath]

Good catch, yes.

I`ll edit it in (although you cans till use "our mundane Version" of Lucid Dreaming, I often do too, it just doesn`t break anything^^).

[GrayDeath]

A bit too simple.

Race? Rolling or no?
Plans?

I appreciate Detail in both Build and Fluff. :)

Edit: OK. Gonna be in bed soonish anyway so ... go nuts (within limits or the Epic Players will remove you!^^).

[Doctor Despair]

Possibly the most useful template in this situation is the +1 LA Godblooded of Vecna since it erases all knowledge of you from the world. You inherently have an advantage in that sense on the rest of the competition, whether you are trying to kill them or hide from them. On the other hand, I don't know that I could voluntarily submit myself to torture in that fashion and give up all of my facial features, so for me, personally, that is out. I think I'd go for a bardic build, pumping charisma as much as possible as well as spot, and use diplomacy on anyone I see. After all, if divinations fail, then there shouldn't be much opportunity for someone to kill me before I see them -- and with a good charisma and bluff, no one should ever be aware I am one such "blessed" person so long as I don't use magic in public. Let someone else save the world from would-be casters.

[Zephonim]

Good catch, yes.

I`ll edit it in (although you cans till use "our mundane Version" of Lucid Dreaming, I often do too, it just doesn`t break anything^^).

How does lucid dreaming break the game?

[Ruethgar]

How does lucid dreaming break the game?

Well, it is a DC 20 and a grapple check to kill any dreaming creature pretty quickly while they sleep. This means all BBEGs who sleep can be killed with little more effort than a level 1 Expert can muster. Furthermore, you can create infinitely. The ability to alter your dream's flora and architecture means you could for example make a treant with nigh infinite divine rank who is completely devoted to you. Or if you wanted to stay more in control, create transdimensional spell traps in the architecture giving you every spell in the game and a x10 time multiplier to trigger them with. Or lower op, make a perfect library and Autohypnosis it all for a constant +8 to all Knowledge checks.

[Prime32]

Aw... PF classes, but 3.5 Level Adjustments? And lv4 rather than 5? Because Unbodied would be pretty useful here (presuming you do in fact become corporeal while using Assume Likeness, because the alternative sucks). Incorporeality, disguise, divination shielding, and psionics (harder to detect than spells, at least if you suppress the displays) which you can advance through class levels.

Clerics and druids (and mystic rangers?) are at an advantage here, since they have access to their entire spell list. However, they also come with a lot of baggage.

If you're expecting combat, then monk and unarmed swordsage are useful so that you don't have to worry about drawing attention to yourself by walking around armed to the teeth. Speaking of combat, can you spend your WBL on enchanting a gun? Because DR/magic is the only real reason to use D&D weapons over the modern kind.

Sanctified Creature (LA +2) could be useful - continuous Magic Circle Against Evil (for countering summoners and anyone who uses mind control) and the ability to speak any language, plus eyebeams that hurt evil creatures. Though there's a risk of slipping into "radar paladin" and losing the template.

[Bobby Baratheon]

If 3.5 templates are on the table (and 3.5 warlocks . . . I don't really like PF warlocks), I'd go with lesser cansin for my race, and unseelie fey/magic blooded. For class, I'd go warlock 1/sorcerer 3, and I'd pick up some binding through feats (you can by RAW enter Anima Mage without any actual levels in binder, and by a poorly worded phrase Anima Mage advances you binding despite not having any binder levels to advance). IIRC, that ability score test gave me something like Str 13, Dex 9, Con 13, Wis 10, Int 15, Cha 14, so that combination of templates/race would mostly play to my strengths and help balance my weaknesses.

That should give me a solid mix of spells, invocations and vestiges, and hope that Practiced Spellcaster works with warlocks. If not, I'll try to get into Eldritch Theurge ASAP, and if so I'd prioritize Anima Mage.

None of this is Pathfinder (which I don't know all that well), so if it's not kosher I'll just play a baseline PF sorcerer.

[Amphetryon]

Pathfinder? Sounds like it's time to break out the Dreamscarred Press.

At 4th level:

Maenad Dread 3/Warlord 1, with Warlord being used for the Sweeping and Dastardly Gambits. Maenad gets +2 CHA in this scenario, powering both Classes' main shticks. Ultimately the aim would be Dread 15/Warlord 5.

At 4th level, Dread Power list would be Demoralize, Mindlink, and Untouchable Aura, plus the innate Energy Ray from Race.

Warlord Maneuvers/Stances would be Encouraging Roar, Pride Movement, Tactical Strike, Blade of Breaking, Prince's Attitude, and Red Zephyr's Strike (Golden Lion/Scarlet Throne focus). The Stance would be Scarlet Einhander.

I'd continue to focus all but exclusively on those two martial schools, as they improve my allies and defenses simultaneously, while the Dread levels are making it harder and harder for foes to voluntarily attack me or my friends.

Stat priority CHA>DEX>STR>INT=CON>WIS, if possible. The entire strategy is predicated on having a good CHA to gain allies against those who would do me harm.

My answer may be entirely different tomorrow.

[Ruethgar]

@Prime32 The OP said level 4, but level adjustment alters ECL, not level. So you can have a max ECL of 7 out of the gate by the parameters listed above.

I am not very familiar with PF, but I will give it a go below. Without game-shattering powers, I would honestly probably just go for living quietly in the country, terraforming and gardening. I would hurry to level 6 ASAP and then just stay in human form. I would eventually go and replant the Amazon once I had Rapid Growth.

In combat I would try and get away first and foremost then set up difficult terrain. I would Swift Concentration Enhanced Create Element for Lava and Easy Focus the Weather while Geomancing with Entangle, Fog, and Forge Earth before bombarding them with breath weapons, a few Scorching Rays, Thundering Blasts, and Thunderheads while the lightning strikes from the weather.

At a mere level 4 to get out of whatever predicament I and my loved ones might be in without knowing what it is would be a difficult thing to do, but a judicious application of the Enhanced Create Element would stop some things like a car accident, gunfire, or assailants not yet upon us. It would take a few rounds to pull off, but transforming into a dragon would end a lot of IRL combats pretty quick weather or not I was that powerful. If I were against another enhanced right out of the gate, Scorching Ray to the face and surround them with lava.

Spoiler: Build Stuff

Show

White Dragonspawn Abomination Kobold: Day Raider, Dragon Affinity, Gliding Wings
Verdant Sphere Sorcerer: 4

Tradition: Double Somatic, Verbal, Skilled Casting(Perform), Focus Casting, Magical Signs, Easy Focus, Lycanthropic, Beast Soul, Personal Magics, Bodily Enhancement, Energy Focus
Spells:
0:Create Element, Thunderhead, Nurturing Seeds, Prestidigitation, Detect Magic, Mending
1: Wood Wose, Thunderhead, Entangle, Animal Friendship
2: Scorching Ray, Rope Trick
Talents: 15 SP

• Weather: Severe Weather, Storm Lord
• Nautre(Plant): Grow Plants
• Enhancment: Physical Enhancement, Deep Enhancement
• Alteration: Avian Transformation, Dragon Transformation
• Destruction: Thundering Blast

Abilities:

Str: 4
Dex: 14
Con: 11
Int: 10
Wis: 8
Cha: 16

Feats:

Trait: Lair Snake
Flaw: Murky Eyed: Spellcrafting
Flaw: Non-Combatant: Craft Spellbook
First: Extra Talent
Third: Draconic Reservoir

Other: Endless, Dragonscale Husk, Loredrake, Draconic Rite(Enhanced Create Element:CL?*constant depending on element Water:5x5x2ft, Stone:2cu ft, Earth: 2ft cu, Air:10ft cu, Grass:5ft sq)Side Effects(Nurturing Seeds: Grass Growth, Thunderhead: Rain, Mending: Healing, Create Element: Gems, Detect Magic: Detect Thoughts)

Leveling
Class: Sorcerer 20
Spells: Arcane Mark, Plant Growth
Talents:In Order
Storm Lord, Rebuff, Earth, Forge Earth, Water, Create Water, Wave, Wind Lord, Rain Lord, Greater Size, Climate, Lengthened Weather, Rapid Growth, Towering Growth, Earthquake, Greater Weather
Feats: 6:Alternate Form, 7: Nimble Moves, 9:Landlord, 12:Non-Epic Demigod Destiny, 13: Acrobatic Steps, 19: Craft Staff

Reroll Cha, Wis and Con(pictured bellow). Roll for Abomination pictured bellow.

Spoiler: Rolls

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[PraxisVetli]

This is literally the setting of my campaign.

[Bohandas]

Wizard. Would use the spells just to increase my own comfort at home and to make some quick cash

[Manyasone]

Right. With a bit more info this time. Deleted my previous post by accident.
I'd stay human, would be strange what with the wife and kids. +2 to CHA. Steelfist commando archetype for Warlord. cha>dex>con>int >wis>str. Probably would go full unarmed considering free improved and greater unarmed strike. Featwise weapon finesse, deadly agility and broken blade style. Skillwise stealth, acrobatics, autohypnosis maxed. Stances would be Sands of time and iron hand. Maneuvers flurry strike/shards of iron strike, sting of the rattler/dizzying venom prana, offensive roll, minute hand, stopwatch and leg sweeping hilt. I used to be military IRL, with power like a commando I'd try special agent for the government. As I become stronger I'd focus solely on broken blade and riven hourglass. And I would opt with the Uber entity that made this happen for unchained automatic bonus progression. Probably would use my skill to save people from terror what with the madness this day and age...

[Prime32]

Wizards and sorcerers should probably consider Eschew Materials, since there are a lot of spells with weird components that are a lot harder to find (if not impossible to find) on modern-day Earth. Even if you can purchase them, other "players" might be able to use that to track you down.

What happens if I take the Apprentice feat from DMG2, which grants benefits centred around your relationship with an lv6+ mentor? Does a mentor spring into being? Does one of my existing "mentors" get empowered to a lv6 D&D character? Or does the feat just fail to work?
If it works then you have immediate access to a loyal and powerful ally, long before the other players start to find each other. It's especially useful if you're both wizards with different spells in your spellbooks.

[Tiri]

up to LA+3 Race.

Does that mean we get the LA for free, or is it included in our levels?

[Ruethgar]

Does that mean we get the LA for free, or is it included in our levels?

LA don't count as levels, only ECL, so by the RAW of the OP it wouldn't count against your initial level meaning you can start ECL 7, however it would still function as LA for leveling purposes.

[GrayDeath]

This is literally the setting of my campaign.

Well its not that farfetched that 2 people should think of the same thing. I am thinking about doing that campaign later in the year and fishing for Ideas here ^^

LA don't count as levels, only ECL, so by the RAW of the OP it wouldn't count against your initial level meaning you can start ECL 7, however it would still function as LA for leveling purposes.

That.


Also: had a horrible week of work and then simply forgot about the thread. No longer!
Make more posts!

[ExLibrisMortis]

Well, with three rerolls, I'm fairly sure that ability scores won't be a problem. Int/con/dex will work fine for a caster, and if my natural int happens to be sufficient (I think it is, but what do I know?), I can reroll something extra.

It's not technically a template, but could you be a steel dragon wyrmling? It's within the ECL range, and they can take the form of humans, so who knows...?

Unbodied would be pretty cool, but that's ECL 8, not 7. Damn.

So I guess it's either psionic artificer or StP erudite, depending on transparency rules. Psionic artificer rules are a bit wonky and unsupported, so I'd rather not take it if full transparency is not in effect.

[GrayDeath]

Well if its HD+LA fit into the "Max level 4 with max LA 3" then why not?

Becoming a Dragon sure would feel ... interesting I think. ^^

As for Artificers: expect the Problemm of time.
If you want to risk being a class that needs time, time and TIME in a potentially NOW deadly situation, and in a Game made by Wizards "for the lulz", then by all means ;)

[Azoth]

Well since this is Pathfinder, I would have to go with the Azlanti Pureblood for race. Nothing like being a human with a +2 to all stats for 0LA, and still getting the extra feat and skill points.

If the LA is going to affect me then Advanced and Young to cancel each other out for CR increase and grant +8 Dex, +4 Int/Wis/Cha. Total Racials would be +2Str, +10 Dex, +2 Con, +6 Int/Wis/Cha.

If this trick works, taking Equipment Trick (Sunrod) to use the option Like the Sun to heighten spells with the light descriptor up to second level. I would go Wizard Diviner(Foresight)2/Cleric1(feather/trickery domains)/Mystic Theurge1.

Full build would probably be Wizard2/Cleric1/Mystic Theurge2/Evangelist10(keyed to Mystic The urge)/Mystic Theurge+5.

[GrayDeath]

It does not.

Honestly people, can barely anyone here make a race/CLass Combo WITHOUT strange cheesy RAWish interpretations that might get approved by a GM every other blue moon?

How in the hecks are you even supposed advanced of age AND young at the same time?



Now even if its merely implicated in the opening post: No REAL Cheese is allowed. No" but it COULD read that way" stuff, no" it never says anywhere its not allowed" and such.
The Gamers are instakilling anyone attempting that stuff as quickly as thoughts of CoI Abuse. ^^


Go for something "realistic" (bad word, best approximate meaning, sadly), what you`d like.
This is NOT a "How to maximize Power with Cheese/Optimization" exercise.


As for the specific example: I dont get where you get your icnreased Attributes for young/Advanced any way, but if you want to be a member of a boring Human offshoot from another planet 8whicha re blatantly semiextinct)...^^

[Madara]

My only good stat would probably be charisma, so I'd do the bloodrite of vol to get Cha to hp. I'm too lazy to study like a wizard, so I'd probably be a warlock and get shatter/ the sniping blast shape. Don't really care for many of the templates, but I'd probably need one to keep up with the others. I'd also take some ques from the commoner's handbook and pickup psionic minor creation for the practicality.

[Necromancy]

*casts thread necromancy*

[Azoth]

It does not.

Honestly people, can barely anyone here make a race/CLass Combo WITHOUT strange cheesy RAWish interpretations that might get approved by a GM every other blue moon?

How in the hecks are you even supposed advanced of age AND young at the same time?



Now even if its merely implicated in the opening post: No REAL Cheese is allowed. No" but it COULD read that way" stuff, no" it never says anywhere its not allowed" and such.
The Gamers are instakilling anyone attempting that stuff as quickly as thoughts of CoI Abuse. ^^


Go for something "realistic" (bad word, best approximate meaning, sadly), what you`d like.
This is NOT a "How to maximize Power with Cheese/Optimization" exercise.


As for the specific example: I dont get where you get your icnreased Attributes for young/Advanced any way, but if you want to be a member of a boring Human offshoot from another planet 8whicha re blatantly semiextinct)...^^

Young is age related, Advanced is not. Advanced are just superior specimens of a given species. The racial selection is basically a teenager that is a near pinnacle example of what the species is capable of. Considering that the idea is to fight creatures/challenges far beyond what a normal real world person could even imagine encountering in our wildest myths it isn't that far fetched. No worse really than any story/comic/anime/legend character.

As far as the being allowed, I have played this character with the Time Seer template as well up to level 15 before the character was retired to try and attempt the Star Stone challenge to gain enough power to resurrect the old Azlanti gods that died protecting Azlant from the Earth fall.

I tend to play at some high powered tables where getting dual 9ths and having save DCs in the low 40's isn't seen as OP.

Now, since that one is an issue for you to deal with...

Something a bit more low op and "fun"...

Human Harbinger 4 Focusing on Shattered Mirror and Riven Hourglass with a smattering of Veiled Moon.

[PraxisVetli]

I unfortunately no nothing of PF.
If 3.5, Elan Warblade/STP Erudite, eventually into Swiftblade.
So whatever the PF version of that would be. I imagine I'd trade Warblade out for Warder, that's all I know.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Well if its HD+LA fit into the "Max level 4 with max LA 3" then why not?

Becoming a Dragon sure would feel ... interesting I think. ^^

As for Artificers: expect the Problemm of time.
If you want to risk being a class that needs time, time and TIME in a potentially NOW deadly situation, and in a Game made by Wizards "for the lulz", then by all means ;)

Cool! Steel dragon wyrmlings are 3 RHD/2 LA. Can you say true dragon cheese . Loredrake, spellhoarding, a single level in eidetic wizard (no spellbook!), all set (might take some LA +1 template). I would rather take a psionic conversion of the same, but that'd be homebrew (seriously, there are not enough psionic dragon tricks, why do they always have to be arcane?).

For the artificer, I point you to this excellent guide, on non-crafting artificers. Besides, I don't expect that I'll never have time to craft, and when you do, it's really useful.

[GrayDeath]

Correct, IF you survive the here and now, and say the next hurried 4-5 levels.....muhahaharrr...

And yes, noncrafting Artificers CAN be good ... but its main Shtick is crafting/Infusing/etc.

Still interesting concepts.

Thanks.

[Conradine]

Elan, Psionic Fighter 4.

Tough, skilled and versatile enough to survive most lethal situations ( lethal for a common human ). I would be able to use power points to negate generic damage as last resource.

And then, when out of danger, eternal life. Sounds sweet.

[GrayDeath]

It does.

Any plans on what way to continue after surviving the imminent "lolz for funz" and hence levelling, process?




I myself would probably try tog et a half Dragon Template (a better one like the one granted by DD or somesuch at least) as I am also a sucker for dragons.

Or something similar, then go for a massively versatile Class.
Maybe Factotum, maybe`, or even a Warlock (though in that case I`d argue for Homebrewed upgrades....^^).

I would very likely reroll my Dex and Con, after seeing my stats maybe strength, maybe Wisdom next.
Unless I`d go for a Chabased Class.
Decisions, decisions.

Still, please keep ideas coming!