Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

[Socratov]

I'm somewhat annoyed by the fact that Squad 0 actually exists. Mostly because I had this whole head-canon built up about how there was no Squad Zero, or Spirit King, and the whole idea of a supreme monarch of the afterlife was a sham set up by the Central 46 and maybe Yamamoto.

That's how such an oppressive and blatantly unfair social system like the Rukongai could be sustained for centuries without imploding in on itself, and why there's never been a massive rebellion on the part of the actual Soul Reapers. Whenever the 46 want more power or do something unpopular, they could scapegoat this nebulous and all-powerful figure at the top of the food chain, and all the hatred would be directed at the King instead.

Not even most of the Captains would know, because it was such a useful fiction for getting rid of the most troublesome and powerful individuals. They'd be 'promoted to Squad Zero' - after an elaborate ceremony, Yamamoto would lead them off alone for reasons of security, and he would later return without them. I mean, you've already got the Maggot's Nest, where Soul Reapers who 'retired' are indefinitely incarcerated, but it can't hold Captain-level prisoners reliably. So this becomes the next best option.

Aizen? Aizen was smart and manipulative enough to figure this out. 'No one has stood at the top' indeed. He figured that hey, there's already an elaborate and well-accepted power structure in place to support a supreme ruler, so why shouldn't I BE that ruler? In order to do it, though, he needed to be stronger than Yamamoto, but gaining that sort of power is an easy way to get oneself flagged for 'promotion'. So he had to break away from the Soul Society, and find a place where he could build up his strength sufficiently to move in and take over. Hence, Hueco Mundo, where he had his own army and fortress to protect him while he worked on the last few steps.

Also explains why Kaname Tousen followed him - he was in on the secret, and his moral outrage against the whole system was enough to prevent him realizing that once Aizen was on the throne, he wasn't neccessarily going to reduce the power that the position held.

But no, apparently Squad Zero exists and is made up of five individuals who look completely stupid. Gah.

Please take over form Tite Kubo in writing this story. I woudl actually believe this...

[Maugan Ra]

Would that I could. Were I writing Bleach, Ichigo and his friends (who would all still be relevant) would discover this at some point during the Quincy invasions. They'd then have to make a choice - split the Gotei with in-fighting and confusion at a critical juncture, possibly costing them the war, or hide their knowledge and become willingly complicit in upholding a corrupt deception above all others.

Yamamoto would reveal that he was constantly torn between hatred at this whole thing, and an iron-clad belief that it was completely necessary, and that the fundamental strain and sickness resulted in his visible age. Ichigo would represent the passion and will to challenge the traditional system that comes from being young, and the whole thing would be a giant conflict between the two of them where everyone takes sides for their own reasons, while also serving as an overall 'coming of age' story for our brash hero.

I don't know how I'd work Bach into it - maybe get him cast as the victim while remaining as the enemy, because hey, his people got genocided as a means to uphold the power of a corrupt bureaucracy because they represented an alternate means of hollow control outside the control of the Central 46. Something like that. He'd still be a villain, but there would be some sympathy there, and like all good moral stories the Internet flame wars over who was right would be epic in scope.

Sadly, I am not the writer of Bleach, and so this shall all have to remain random fanfiction at best.

[ThiagoMartell]

Squad Zero was heavily foreshadowed so if it did not exist, it would be a big letdown.

[Maugan Ra]

Could have had them show up in a dramatic 'here comes the cavalry' moment though, at least. Even if it was just one or two of them, having them arrive into the middle of a fierce battle by what appears to basically be drop-pod to turn the tide against the enemy... that would have been cool.

Instead, these five soldiers, who are apparently the equal of all Thirteen Divisions by themselves (despite apparently having had no direct combat experience in the past few millennia) wait until after the fighting is over to show up. You know, after the casualties are in the quadruple digits and the Captain-Commander is dead and most of Seireitei is a smoking ruin. This doesn't look like reinforcements or a group of heroic badasses showing up to save the day - it looks far more like a bunch of sequestered layabouts finally getting off their backsides and getting involved only when it's clear they have absolutely no other choice.

I, for one, am hoping that someone rips into them over this. Maybe even Mayuri - he seemed irritated enough by the prospect of their arrival.

[Tebryn]

Well...we know that it's Squad Zero's job to handle Menos Grande so they obviously do see some level of combat experience. We don't know enough about them to make any judgements. I for one rather like how they look but that really has no baring on how the story is going does it? The story is crap, we know this. We move on. The Spirit King isn't a person or anything, at least not from what we've been told. It's what keeps Soul Society from ripping itself apart. The reason Soul Society is so ramshackle is because there isn't anyone ruling it. It is an excuse and a myth to keep people in line just as you'd want it. Uruhara seems to know what it is, as does Aizen. Neither of them refer to it as anything other than a "thing."

[Morph Bark]

Would that I could. Were I writing Bleach, Ichigo and his friends (who would all still be relevant) would discover this at some point during the Quincy invasions. They'd then have to make a choice - split the Gotei with in-fighting and confusion at a critical juncture, possibly costing them the war, or hide their knowledge and become willingly complicit in upholding a corrupt deception above all others.

Yamamoto would reveal that he was constantly torn between hatred at this whole thing, and an iron-clad belief that it was completely necessary, and that the fundamental strain and sickness resulted in his visible age. Ichigo would represent the passion and will to challenge the traditional system that comes from being young, and the whole thing would be a giant conflict between the two of them where everyone takes sides for their own reasons, while also serving as an overall 'coming of age' story for our brash hero.

I don't know how I'd work Bach into it - maybe get him cast as the victim while remaining as the enemy, because hey, his people got genocided as a means to uphold the power of a corrupt bureaucracy because they represented an alternate means of hollow control outside the control of the Central 46. Something like that. He'd still be a villain, but there would be some sympathy there, and like all good moral stories the Internet flame wars over who was right would be epic in scope.

Sadly, I am not the writer of Bleach, and so this shall all have to remain random fanfiction at best.

While that sounds like it could be a great story, it's not much in line with what Bleach has shown so far. Everything other than the plots of the main villains is very straightforward. Furthermore, the Spirit King was known to interfere very little with Soul Society, so any decisions the Central 46 took couldn't really be scapegoated onto him. Plus, do the Central 46 even exist anymore at this point? I thought Yamamoto basically didn't allow them to be reformed, because Soul Society was better off without them.

Also, we don't know if these captains don't have any battle experience since they ascended to Squad Zero. Though it could simply be that they've just been fighting against one another over and over. I do very much agree a "here comes the cavalry" moment would've been much more awesome though. At least if there was a moment of reprieve between that and the final face-off against Bach, so we can get to know these new characters more before they'd be off again to wherever they came from.

[jindra34]

Maugan Ra; Welcome to Kubo's Bleach, your explanation simply makes too much sense to be true.

[Morph Bark]

One way Bach could be casted as the villain and yet remain the victim would be that as a result of the genocide he engineered Quincy techniques to destroy Hollows always, whereas before they would simply be purified or whatever happens to Hollows that are defeated by things that aren't Shinigami/Quincies/other Hollows that eat them.

Like a "someone wronged me, so the whole world must pay!" kind of thing.

[junglesteve]

One way Bach could be casted as the villain and yet remain the victim would be that as a result of the genocide he engineered Quincy techniques to destroy Hollows always, whereas before they would simply be purified or whatever happens to Hollows that are defeated by things that aren't Shinigami/Quincies/other Hollows that eat them.

Like a "someone wronged me, so the whole world must pay!" kind of thing.

There was no 'before they would be purified' only the zanpakuto can purify their souls... No matter what or when if a hallow was killed by anything other then a zanpakuto their souls were just destroyed.

[DiscipleofBob]

There was no 'before they would be purified' only the zanpakuto can purify their souls... No matter what or when if a hallow was killed by anything other then a zanpakuto their souls were just destroyed.

Granted it's vague, but I was under the impression that killing hollows with Zanpakuto purifies them, killing them Quincy-style destroys the soul entirely, and any other method doesn't actually kill the hollow, just temporarily disables it or sends it back to Hueco Mundo or something.

[HandofShadows]

Squad Zero was heavily foreshadowed so if it did not exist, it would be a big letdown.

Aizen stated he had seen the Soul Kinga and even called it an "thing" (seemed to be rather disgusted by it in fact). Squad Zero is also stated as existing a long time ago as Ginrei Kuchiki (Byakuya Grandfather) was promoted to it in the "Turn back the Pedulum" arc. IIRC it was this promotion that allowed Aizen to learn info about Squad Zero's existance.

[HandofShadows]

Granted it's vague, but I was under the impression that killing hollows with Zanpakuto purifies them, killing them Quincy-style destroys the soul entirely, and any other method doesn't actually kill the hollow, just temporarily disables it or sends it back to Hueco Mundo or something.

Which raises a important question. Why did the SS allow a certain Quincy to run arround and kill Hollows? In fact most of the SS didn't seem to have a problem about it. I think Quincies can destroy Hollows without destroying the Soul and they refuse to do so.

[DiscipleofBob]

Which raises a important question. Why did the SS allow a certain Quincy to run arround and kill Hollows? In fact most of the SS didn't seem to have a problem about it. I think Quincies can destroy Hollows without destroying the Soul and they refuse to do so.

Well, it's made pretty clear that Soul Society only started caring when the Quincy were killing too many hollows and threatening to tip the balance. So maybe SS doesn't really care if hollows are killed/purified, but too many gone at a time and it destroys the balance between worlds.

If hollows regularly consume souls, I assume the consumed souls are similarly destroyed as a result and don't get thrown back into the cycle, so it's not like destroyed souls are uncommon.

Then again, this is all assuming Kubo has some sort internally consistent in-universe mechanism. lol

[Morph Bark]

There was no 'before they would be purified' only the zanpakuto can purify their souls... No matter what or when if a hallow was killed by anything other then a zanpakuto their souls were just destroyed.

It's stated at several points that Quincies are the only ones who actually destroy Hollow souls and therefore upset the spiritual balance of the worlds. It's never outright said what happens if a non-Shinigami, non-Quincy, non-Hollow person kills a Hollow.

Shinigami purify Hollows
Quincies destroy Hollows.
Hollows eat and absorb Hollows.
Orihime doesn't do jack because she's Orihime, but what about other spiritually powerful humans? What about Fullbrings? There's no mention what happens if they kill a Hollow.

When a Plus or Shinigami gets killed it's easy: they get sent back to the real world to be reborn.

When a Quincy or Fullbring or any other human dies it's also easy: they either become Pluses or Hollows. (Well, first Pluses, then Hollows, in worse case scenario.) Or they get sent to Hell, but that doesn't happen as often. (Hell is canon, right? I keep thinking it might not be and I'm just confused, but as far as I remember it was featured in canon material around the start of the Arrancar arc.)

The only thing that really puzzles me is how people have babies in Soul Society. It must be the way souls are created, thus allowing for the populations in either worlds to grow (or stay stable if the spirit baby influx is the same as the amount of people getting sent to Hell plus the amount of Hollow souls getting destroyed).

Also, presumably when a Hollow is purified they get split up into their components (meaning all Hollows they've eaten) and turned into ordinary Pluses. Otherwise Hollows would be a much greater upsetting to the balance of souls (and destroying them wouldn't be as bad as in the case of this not being so) and if they would keep power after being turned into Pluses we must've seen something of the buttload of powerful Hollows and Arrancar the protagonists have "killed" so far.

Except maybe Ulquiorra, depending on whatever happens to those not destroyed by Quincies, nor purified by Shinigami, nor eaten by Hollows.

The presumption is that either they are also purified (not as likely, otherwise Shinigami would only be particularly special for being able to help Pluses cross over), are "suspended" and later return in Hueco Mundo (of which we would've seen proof earlier and the Gotei 13 likely would've known of this), OR they are sent to the real world to be reborn as living humans.


But the most likely explanation is of course that We, the fans, have put a lot more thought into possible webs of internal consistency, even individually, than Kubo ever has or would care to do.

[turbo164]

He still has the worst Bankai. I remind you that he himself STILL the only person to get beaten by it.

iirc, it has lost to CrickeTousen and Aizen, and beaten Poww and Komamura (and Komamura a second time in filler); his first Aizen loss he got one-shotted before he even finished summoning the bankai.

So it's beaten two people; a Fraccion and one of the weakest (bankai-less!) captains. Meanwhile it lost to the guy that *everyone* loses against; but before that, a guy who lost to an injured lieutenant.

@Maugan Ra: when does your next issue come out? I'll buy it.

[Friv]

The presumption is that either they are also purified (not as likely, otherwise Shinigami would only be particularly special for being able to help Pluses cross over), are "suspended" and later return in Hueco Mundo (of which we would've seen proof earlier and the Gotei 13 likely would've known of this), OR they are sent to the real world to be reborn as living humans.

It is possible that when you kill a powerful Hollow, it shatters into all of its component Hollows, which then reform individually in Hueco Mundo.

iirc, it has lost to CrickeTousen and Aizen, and beaten Poww and Komamura (and Komamura a second time in filler); his first Aizen loss he got one-shotted before he even finished summoning the bankai.

IIRC, it also held off Kenpachi, although their fight was cut off by Aizen's reveal before it was officially resolved.

[lord_khaine]

Yeah, i newer really understood where the idea that it was a weak Bankai came from either.

[Morph Bark]

It is possible that when you kill a powerful Hollow, it shatters into all of its component Hollows, which then reform individually in Hueco Mundo.

That could also be true. Which would mean Hollows eating Hollows is actually beneficial to Shinigami, as then they need to defeat less Hollows (plus the stronger ones don't go to the real world as often).

[HandofShadows]

I get the impression a lot of the Arancar don't leave Hueco Mundo at all. They really didn't even have a reason too leave.

[Silva Stormrage]

Yeah, i newer really understood where the idea that it was a weak Bankai came from either.

Its the fact that it shares damage with it's wielder. So really it just makes a REALLY big target. Also the fact that it really doesn't do much either, most people just outright dodge it all the time. It DOES do massive damage if it hits. But it tends to not do that

[Friv]

That could also be true. Which would mean Hollows eating Hollows is actually beneficial to Shinigami, as then they need to defeat less Hollows (plus the stronger ones don't go to the real world as often).

Not necessarily.

If a stronger Hollow only comes to the real world one-twentieth as often as a weak one, but is capable of doing thirty times more damage and is thirty times more likely to kill the poor sod who goes after it, I'm not sure that's a net benefit.

Yeah, i newer really understood where the idea that it was a weak Bankai came from either.

I suspect it has less to do with the Bankai and more to do with Captain Werewolf himself.

He's the only captain who routinely gets the crap kicked out of him, and frequently in situations that make him appear wildly less powerful than the other captains. In his first appearance, he and Tousen joined forces against Kenpachi and got trounced. Then he went up against Aizen and got one-shotted to show the situation was serious. Then he beat up a wimpy Arrancar, and then he got trounced by Tousen to show that the situation was serious. And then he got trounced by the Quincies to show that the situation was serious.

He just keeps getting Worf'd, over and over again.

[lord_khaine]

Its the fact that it shares damage with it's wielder. So really it just makes a REALLY big target. Also the fact that it really doesn't do much either, most people just outright dodge it all the time. It DOES do massive damage if it hits. But it tends to not do that

The damage sharing shouldnt be an issue in itself, since logicaly something of that size should be ordes of magnitude tougher than its master, in itself creating a super giant to stomp on people sounds pretty powerfull.

I suspect it has less to do with the Bankai and more to do with Captain Werewolf himself.

He's the only captain who routinely gets the crap kicked out of him, and frequently in situations that make him appear wildly less powerful than the other captains. In his first appearance, he and Tousen joined forces against Kenpachi and got trounced. Then he went up against Aizen and got one-shotted to show the situation was serious. Then he beat up a wimpy Arrancar, and then he got trounced by Tousen to show that the situation was serious. And then he got trounced by the Quincies to show that the situation was serious.

He just keeps getting Worf'd, over and over again.

Yeah misunderstood worfing makes a bit of sense, though as i recall in his first fight he saved Tousen by forcing Kenpachi away from him, and then forced him into a draw, something that allways made me considder him pretty badass.

[Maugan Ra]

It's a shame as well, because I really like Komamura. He's basically the absolute ideal of the honour debt - he looked freakish and strange, and Yamamoto was the only man to ever treat him like a normal person despite that, the only one to ever show kindness to him. And Komamura wanted to repay that with absolute, personal loyalty. So he joined the Gotei, worked as hard as he possibly could and rose through the ranks to the position of Captain, purely so he could repay what he saw as a monumental debt to his only friend in the world.

He just never gets to show any of this potentially wonderful characterization. Because Kubo introduces dozens of different characters whenever he can, and promptly forgets about half of them.

That said, Eyepatch-Shunsui is just the best.

[Dscherro]

The only thing that really puzzles me is how people have babies in Soul Society.

Maybe the majority those babies are actually the pluses send to Soul Society: they usually are just reborn as a soul-being the same way inhabitants of Soul Society are reborn as humans (That would explain, why pretty much nobody seems to remember any kind of life on Earth). Otherwise the influx of souls would be too big: in addition to millions of people dying daily on Earth, there would be a lot of souls being created directly into the afterlife. The number of souls being send to hell is probably rather small, as everyone in hell, whose crimes we know so far, was a mass murderer without regret during life. There might still be souls created in the afterlife to counter those, but their number would be equally small. Hollows don't seem to affect the balance too much, maybe there are just not many of them to beginn with, compared to humans and pluses, and most are probably quickly dealt with by shinigami.
Also, pluses being just transported to Soul Society without changes in appearance, personality and so on, exist, but they are quite rare.
Additionally I'm now also guilty of putting too much thought into our silly shounen action adventure.

[Drolyt]

(Hell is canon, right? I keep thinking it might not be and I'm just confused, but as far as I remember it was featured in canon material around the start of the Arrancar arc.)

Hell first appeared in chapter 12 when they fought Shrieker (the hollow with the parakeet). It is never really explained what's up with hell (I've never seen the movie).

[Battleship789]

Hell first appeared in chapter 12 when they fought Shrieker (the hollow with the parakeet). It is never really explained what's up with hell (I've never seen the movie).

Never seen the movie (and, lol canon) but hell isn't explained much in the Bleachverse, other than Hollows that committed sins in mortality are sent to hell. And apparently get stabbed by some huge person with a freakin' huge sword (probably a zanpakuto).

[VanBuren]

Are we sure that Quincy powers necessarily destroy Hollows rather than it being a conscious decision on the part of the Quincies to specifically do that.

[jindra34]

Are we sure that Quincy powers necessarily destroy Hollows rather than it being a conscious decision on the part of the Quincies to specifically do that.

Pretty sure that at the very least the method chosen to be taught does. Or as close as we can be in Bleach.

[Morph Bark]

Maybe the majority those babies are actually the pluses send to Soul Society: they usually are just reborn as a soul-being the same way inhabitants of Soul Society are reborn as humans (That would explain, why pretty much nobody seems to remember any kind of life on Earth). Otherwise the influx of souls would be too big: in addition to millions of people dying daily on Earth, there would be a lot of souls being created directly into the afterlife. The number of souls being send to hell is probably rather small, as everyone in hell, whose crimes we know so far, was a mass murderer without regret during life. There might still be souls created in the afterlife to counter those, but their number would be equally small. Hollows don't seem to affect the balance too much, maybe there are just not many of them to beginn with, compared to humans and pluses, and most are probably quickly dealt with by shinigami.
Also, pluses being just transported to Soul Society without changes in appearance, personality and so on, exist, but they are quite rare.
Additionally I'm now also guilty of putting too much thought into our silly shounen action adventure.

We've seen a handful of people in Soul Society that we saw as Pluses in the real world before getting sent to Soul Society, so they aren't reborn as babies on the spirit side.

Also, I wouldn't assume Bleach necessarily takes place on our Earth. If Soul Society would be the only place where spirits go to after death, then the real world would be equally small -- and we've only really seen Karakura Town of the real world. In fact, we haven't seen enough of Rukongai by far to have much adequate knowledge on the amount of people living there, do we? I think it might've been mentioned at some point early on, but it wasn't all that much relatively speaking.

[KnightDisciple]

That said, Eyepatch-Shunsui is just the best.

Yes. Yes he is.

Anyways.
The more I think on the whole "broken bankai never get fixed", the more stupid it is.
Why?
Because of how wackily different most bankai are from the shikai.

Take Renji. His shikai's construction is completely different than his bankai. More than that, both shikai and bankai seem to spontaneously generate new sections whenever they need to! When "retracted", the shikai has like 8 sub-blades. But he extends it way beyond that; his fight with Pink Hair had him wrap both of them toe-to-shoulder in at least 1 layer of blades. His bankai does the same thing, it's just freak-huge. So how does it losing 1 or 2 segments hurt it, when it spontaneously generates them!

Byakuya's sword turns into exponentially more micro-blades. Are you telling me it takes permanent damage if a couple of those get chopped up?

Or...crud, forgot his name. The Vizard with the knife. His bankai is totally unrelated, size/shape-wise. Are you saying if that weird ribbon tears in half, it chips that knife of his?

Ikkaku's Bankai getting torn up is kind of his signature at this point; it's "weak" because it's entirely focused on attack, not because of sudden magic retcon.

Really, it's silly. Silly because there's nothing prior to support it.

And silly because Ichigo the Messianic FullVizQuingami will inevitably ignore this "rule" and fix his sword via meditation at the last moment. Or have Hat-n-Clogs fix it, whatever.

At this point I'm reading because it's like a car wreck and I can't look away...