Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

[VanBuren]

Since she was one of the original Captains, it's a given that she'd be a monster of some flavor. However, there is a vast quality difference between the discarded potential of her being a charismatic murderer (who has the self-mastery to seamlessly fit into society) and the actual reveal (which seems to imply that she's just a blood knight in sheep's clothing). The former would result in a far more complex, and subtle, malice which would flow organically from her quiet role thus far. The actual execution of this reveal, however, is shaping up to be just as poorly done as Giriko's personality waffle.

For all we know, the Captain Mom persona could be a mask she deliberately invokes in a constant attempt to suppress said berserker nature. And she's decided to unleash rather reluctantly out of necessity. That is, the Unohana we know is fake to a point, though it is what she truly aspires to be, with her Kenpachi self always bubbling just below the surface.

[danzibr]

I don't see why people are complaining about this revealed side of Unohana. What would be better?

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Medical fact: anger lowers one's IQ. As such, the best possible fighter is one who is emotionally centered or distant. Having the big reveal that the Gotei's former/current top swords(wo)man is possibly just ANOTHER dumb brute is just another in a long line of bad calls Kubo has made with this series.

As for what could be better, I've already covered that. I have no issue with her being a retired Kenpachi. I had just hoped that she'd execute the role without a personality fracture due to secretly being an angry simpleton all along. A cold killer that serves tea with a serene face is FAR more unnerving than two-dimensional character like Kenpachi. Look at the manga "Monster", where the main villain manages to radiate pure malice while rarely emoting at all. He's clean cut, well-spoken, and intimidating as all hell without needing to foam at the mouth. That is what Unohana could have been, the blade edge that can quietly take a life, or save it, with equally little personal investment.

[VanBuren]

Medical fact: anger lowers one's IQ. As such, the best possible fighter is one who is emotionally centered or distant. Having the big reveal that the Gotei's former/current top swords(wo)man is possibly just ANOTHER dumb brute is just another in a long line of bad calls Kubo has made with this series.

As for what could be better, I've already covered that. I have no issue with her being a retired Kenpachi. I had just hoped that she'd execute the role without a personality fracture due to secretly being an angry simpleton all along. A cold killer that serves tea with a serene face is FAR more unnerving than two-dimensional character like Kenpachi. Look at the manga "Monster", where the main villain manages to radiate pure malice while rarely emoting at all. He's clean cut, well-spoken, and intimidating as all hell without needing to foam at the mouth. That is what Unohana could have been, the blade edge that can quietly take a life, or save it, with equally little personal investment.

Monster is also not a shonen. And anger might lower someone's IQ in the real world, but that's a medical fact that stories don't always hold to. Which is fine.

To single out Kubo specifically for doing something like this is rather odd.

[thubby]

Medical fact: anger lowers one's IQ. As such, the best possible fighter is one who is emotionally centered or distant. Having the big reveal that the Gotei's former/current top swords(wo)man is possibly just ANOTHER dumb brute is just another in a long line of bad calls Kubo has made with this series.

it's also a fact that IQ doesn't dictate ones fighting ability. the entire point of martial training is to circumvent your rather sluggish consciousness and make the right moves come up on impulse.

also, who said she was a simpleton? if i read it right (translations vary and all), she was a criminal ringleader and a master of basically every combat technique ever known.

[danzibr]

Why are we assuming she's a rage machine now? She might be scary but... The picture I saw made me think, well, I'm not sure the best way to phrase it, but while Kenpachi seems hot scary she seems cold scary.

[thubby]

i just realized this has the potential to be very clever.
we've all commented on the slavish devotion she has to yamamoto. maybe that's the part of her that never changes. what if he ordered her not to be kenpachi?
i mean, he was trying to build something. she certainly had the power he needed, but at some point her vicious reputation was going to hurt his cause.

this wouldnt be a personality switch, it would be a person doing what ever it takes for someone they respect (maybe love?)

[LaZodiac]

Medical fact: anger lowers one's IQ. As such, the best possible fighter is one who is emotionally centered or distant. Having the big reveal that the Gotei's former/current top swords(wo)man is possibly just ANOTHER dumb brute is just another in a long line of bad calls Kubo has made with this series.

As for what could be better, I've already covered that. I have no issue with her being a retired Kenpachi. I had just hoped that she'd execute the role without a personality fracture due to secretly being an angry simpleton all along. A cold killer that serves tea with a serene face is FAR more unnerving than two-dimensional character like Kenpachi. Look at the manga "Monster", where the main villain manages to radiate pure malice while rarely emoting at all. He's clean cut, well-spoken, and intimidating as all hell without needing to foam at the mouth. That is what Unohana could have been, the blade edge that can quietly take a life, or save it, with equally little personal investment.

Well to be fair to bleach, Monster is liquid gold. I wouldn't even begin to expect Bleach to reach it's level of quality.

Anyway, we've only seen a few scenes of her in fight mode, maybe she'll be smarter then her kinda ducklipped angry face shows?

[thubby]

Well to be fair to bleach, Monster is liquid gold. I wouldn't even begin to expect Bleach to reach it's level of quality.

Anyway, we've only seen a few scenes of her in fight mode, maybe she'll be smarter then her kinda ducklipped angry face shows?

personally i think that face looks like something out of japanese theater. which would fit since she's female and clearly been playing a part.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

VanBuren: I understand that they are not the same genre, but themes and characterization transcend all that. Kubo has a rep for being full of great concepts (both in character looks and general plot points) but failing to deliver in the execution of the latter. I call him out because I see another fall happening before my eyes. Time will tell if Kubo's ham hands have just left me gun shy or if I will be vindicated in my pattern recognition.

thubby: It's a basic literary step to show the audience a thing via character actions, rather than telling the audience about it. I know it's not often the case in manga, but that standard still holds in my eyes. Nobody had to wax on about how much of a bad ass Spike Spiegel was, you could see it whenever he got to business. Be he smiling, or serious, the character's actions spoke for him. With this latest chapter, Captain Mom has seemed to warp into Captain Brazy Citch over night. There's no telling if I am being hypersensitive at this point, or not, but my gut says that my lowered bar is set just right. As for IQ not fuly determining fighting ability, that is true. However, this is supposed to be the head doctor of a military order. If she ends up being a dim thug in disguise, it shatters my ability to embrace her in her current role.

danzibr: Cold scary would not throw a verbal temper tantrum. Cold scary would remain calm even as malice tripped from words softly uttered with her characteristic calm demeanor. Again, just as Aizen would have been far more compelling had he not flipped his gourd and turned into evil superman, she would have been much more interesting if she hadn't turned into an angry, wannabe Yuki-Onna.

{scrubbed}

thubby: I'd like that, and it's clever, so it's not likely. Who knows though?

LaZodiac: We'll have to leave that to the great gossip, because time will tell.

[Drolyt]

Medical fact: anger lowers one's IQ.

I'm sorry to nitpick, but this state is so vague (or alternatively, so broad) as to be meaningless. Intelligence Quotient ("IQ") is a score you get on a standardized test. It's relationship with actual intelligence is debated, but that isn't even the problem. When you say that anger lowers your IQ I have to wonder what you are referring to. Do people who are upset perform poorly on IQ tests? I wouldn't expect that to influence someone's fighting ability.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

The chemicals released in one's noggin, while one is angry, limit higher brain function as the body switches into fight or flight mode. While this is great when going my instinct, the process inherently limits one's ability to think tactically.

[Turalisj]

The chemicals released in one's noggin, while one is angry, limit higher brain function as the body switches into fight or flight mode. While this is great when going my instinct, the process inherently limits one's ability to think tactically.

And you have medical studies to back this up, yes?

[Axinian]

The chemicals released in one's noggin, while one is angry, limit higher brain function as the body switches into fight or flight mode. While this is great when going my instinct, the process inherently limits one's ability to think tactically.

But it does not prevent such thinking entirely. I would imagine someone of Unohana's caliber would be able to fight just as well regardless of whether she's ticked off or not.

[LaZodiac]

The chemicals released in one's noggin, while one is angry, limit higher brain function as the body switches into fight or flight mode. While this is great when going my instinct, the process inherently limits one's ability to think tactically.

Not saying this is wrong, because even without a medical study I know from imperical evidence (IE myself and others I know) that there must be some grain of truth to this. I've seen angry people do some stupid ass stuff./

However, I contest that they are ghosts and thus probably shouldn't have to deal with this. But then also ghosts are born and can die, so maybe that's just a problem with Bleach.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Turalisj:

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The effects of anger and stress on the brain cannot be ignored.There is evidence that chronic stress can alter brain function at the cellular level. Researchers at the Hotchkiss Brain Institute in Calgary have discovered that one of the effects of anger on the brain is that neurons in the hypothalmus, the brain's command center for stress responses can be compromised.

Normally these neurons receive different chemical signals that prompt them to switch on or off.Stress and anger compromise these functions and jeopardize the brain's ability to slow down.

Other studies also show that stress blocks the growth of new neurons in the brain resulting in neuronal death or depression.Increased stress hormones can also lead to memory impairment and learning difficulties.

Spoiler'd do to not being my own words. I'll have to track down the specific articles I looked over that address this issue more in-depth.

Axinian: Who can say at this point? Either she'll end up being a total baus (despite the character change), or she'll get Worf'd so hard that it'll become a new Bleach meme. I'm not suggesting that she's already gone full retard, but the point remains that self-impairment is self-impairment. For a thug like the Captain of the 11th, that's no big deal as he fights on instinct anyway. But for someone who is supposed to use actual technique, it's still looking like this will be another letdown.

LaZodiac: I can only shrug at this point. The Bleach universe has always had a problem with not actually being a fleshed out setting. Are ghost/spirits just people with different rules? Who the heck knows?

[VanBuren]

We're making an awful lot of assumptions off of a few scant pages. Including the assumption that she's a "rage machine".

That bears keeping in mind.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

It's true, I am making a few assumptions, with rather limited evidence. However, given the precedence set by Kubo's earlier writing, said assumptions seem to be rather safe bets.

[Drolyt]

Spoiler'd do to not being my own words. I'll have to track down the specific articles I looked over that address this issue more in-depth.

Wouldn't quote tags make more sense? Like this:

E = MC^2

It's true, I am making a few assumptions, with rather limited evidence. However, given the precedence set by Kubo's earlier writing, said assumptions seem to be rather safe bets.

Maybe, but I'm not seeing it. I've spent the last few pages looking at this thread and trying to figure out what the heck I missed.

[danzibr]

I would bet against Unohana being a rage machine.

[Ramza00]

I would bet against Unohana being a rage machine.

I agree delighting from fighting is not the same thing as a berserker rage machine.

[Turalisj]

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She doesn't look like a berserker fighter to me.

[HandofShadows]

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She doesn't look like a berserker fighter to me.

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Not at all. She is keeping cool.

[Dscherro]

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Looks like we'll get a flashback next.

[Morph Bark]

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Zaraki is a Saiyan.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

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Zaraki is a Saiyan.

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He does have the spikiest hair in Bleach...

[Socratov]

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Well, to be honest, judging from this chapter we can see her as a clever and dirty fighter. She uses tricks and any advantage she can muster to gain her the win. On top of that she is highly proficient in combat but keeps it personal. among her tactics are a hidden blade (?), demoralization, illusions used in demoralizations, attacks on certain parts of the body where anatomical knowledge dictates the exact amount of damage is conveyed. she keeps cool, taunts excessively (and with success) and lures her opponent into a trap.

she is a mix of rogue/scholarly warrior with an overdose of power andmore trick then Zaraki can handle. I now see why she is so friggin' scary. I mean all that and mad kido skills too? I guess her stats will be all over the place

[Friv]

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Zaraki is a Saiyan.

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That was also my first thought, including the spiky hair bit!

Although upon re-reading, I think it might be more than that, and it could explain one of the scenes that I always thought was kind of odd.

I think Kenpachi might actually be immortal somehow. Unohana literally just killed him, and it didn't take. This is also how his survived his battles with Ichigo and with notBach.

[Morph Bark]

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That was also my first thought, including the spiky hair bit!

Although upon re-reading, I think it might be more than that, and it could explain one of the scenes that I always thought was kind of odd.

I think Kenpachi might actually be immortal somehow. Unohana literally just killed him, and it didn't take. This is also how his survived his battles with Ichigo and with notBach.

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I don't think he survived a throatstab there, but that he was simply having a vision of it out of fear somehow. Unohana's response would've been different otherwise.

[Delusion]

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I think it was similar illusion like the one Ichigo had when he met Kenpachi for the first time.

Also, the chapter they fought in was called Undead. Might have some significance.