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  1. - Top - End - #181
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    Default Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

    Hey, so, we should probably talk about the thing we learned this chapter. Mostly that Bach has to stay in some kind of Shadow Zone or he apparently dies or something. Interesting...
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    Default Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

    that's becuase he's been around for some time (longer then ukitake and kyoraku) and humans don't keep so well (it is commented upon that quincies are only quincies when they are alive as a human, but I could be mistaken). so he probably gained eternal life while he stays within his limits so he can take his revenge on SS.

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  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Default Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

    Makes perfect sense, for a given definition of sense considering what Manga we're talking about.

    In the end all this really means is that Bach gets to retreat and hide behind another wall of named mooks, delaying the end even more. Maybe Chad and Orihime (AND URIYAAAAAAAAAAAAAA) will get a fight like they did in Hueco Mundo?
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  4. - Top - End - #184
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    Default Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Makes perfect sense, for a given definition of sense considering what Manga we're talking about.

    In the end all this really means is that Bach gets to retreat and hide behind another wall of named mooks, delaying the end even more. Maybe Chad and Orihime (AND URIYAAAAAAAAAAAAAA) will get a fight like they did in Hueco Mundo?
    Well really, that'd be acceptable in other anime.

  5. - Top - End - #185
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    Default Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Makes perfect sense, for a given definition of sense considering what Manga we're talking about.

    In the end all this really means is that Bach gets to retreat and hide behind another wall of named mooks, delaying the end even more. Maybe Chad and Orihime (AND URIYAAAAAAAAAAAAAA) will get a fight like they did in Hueco Mundo?
    Well, with the captains depowered or dead, I think we'll finally see them taking the spotlight. Maybe with Rukia and Renji along with them. That would be good - using the guys that were supposed to be the main group for the final arc.

    Oh, who am I kidding. This is Bleach. They will just be sidelined a few chapters in.

  6. - Top - End - #186
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    Default Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tebryn View Post
    Well really, that'd be acceptable in other anime.
    In other anime or manga, Bach wouldn't of lost almost all his men on the attack in Soul Society, so we could build up a reason to hate those characters, so when he DOES retreat and Ichigo has to fight them, we have more of a reason to root for Ichigo beyond "hero should win" mentality. As it is, the only person who I even care about is the Quincy girl that looks like Rukia, because I bet she'll turn good like all the other villians that look like Rukia.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell View Post
    Well, with the captains depowered or dead, I think we'll finally see them taking the spotlight. Maybe with Rukia and Renji along with them. That would be good - using the guys that were supposed to be the main group for the final arc.

    Oh, who am I kidding. This is Bleach. They will just be sidelined a few chapters in.
    Man, in this OWN ARC vs As Nodt (a really awesome villian who dies like a punk and thus is another example of why the above is so bad) both Byakuya AND RENJI HIMSELF said "Yha, I'm kind of useless".
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  7. - Top - End - #187
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    Default Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

    I have been monitoring (i.e. lurking in) these forums for a loooong time, but this time I felt motivated to actually signup in order to post something I'm surprised nobody has pointed out yet.
    Why are you trying to make sense out of it? It's Bleach. The plot is not consistent and Kubo pulls new stuff from his *hat* every second chapter. Why bother finding logic in madness?
    Btw feels good to be actually doing this. Now to set up a sig...

  8. - Top - End - #188
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    Default Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    In other anime or manga, Bach wouldn't of lost almost all his men on the attack in Soul Society, so we could build up a reason to hate those characters, so when he DOES retreat and Ichigo has to fight them, we have more of a reason to root for Ichigo beyond "hero should win" mentality. As it is, the only person who I even care about is the Quincy girl that looks like Rukia, because I bet she'll turn good like all the other villians that look like Rukia.
    .
    Very true, however while I'm all for criticizing faults and there are plenty to criticize, my point was that the "Stay in the Shadow Realm." isn't that egregious as a plot point and were it in a better made manga we'd not be scoffing at it.

    Also can you name another Villian in Bleach that looks like Rukia and turns good? Even one? Because I don't recall any in the 514 chapters up to now.

  9. - Top - End - #189
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    Default Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

    The dollhouse girl comes to mind.
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  10. - Top - End - #190
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    Default Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tebryn View Post
    Also can you name another Villian in Bleach that looks like Rukia and turns good? Even one? Because I don't recall any in the 514 chapters up to now.
    Chicks in general tend to turn good.

  11. - Top - End - #191
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    Default Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

    Quote Originally Posted by Xondoure View Post
    The dollhouse girl comes to mind.
    She looks like Orihime rather than Rukia. Except with pigtails and a maid's dress.
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  12. - Top - End - #192
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    Default Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

    Quote Originally Posted by Xondoure View Post
    The dollhouse girl comes to mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    She looks like Orihime rather than Rukia. Except with pigtails and a maid's dress.
    Riruka

    Rukia

    Ya, I don't see it.

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    Default Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tebryn View Post
    Riruka

    Rukia

    Ya, I don't see it.
    He's better than Oda I'll give him that, but even their names sound the same!
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  14. - Top - End - #194
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    Default Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

    Really? Better than Oda? I don't agree at all. All of their faces look the same in Bleach. The worst person in Manga with copy-past characters is the guy who does Fairy Tail and Rave Master.

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    Default Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tebryn View Post
    Really? Better than Oda? I don't agree at all. All of their faces look the same in Bleach. The worst person in Manga with copy-past characters is the guy who does Fairy Tail and Rave Master.
    Oda has trouble with females. But other than that I agree.
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    Default Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

    So, I've let them simmer for a bit, but, here are some thoughts regarding this week's issue.

    Spoiler
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    General Assumptions
    First, some points that I'm working from as assumed fact, based on the total collected body of work thus far, and my understanding of the (admittedly a bit jumbled and confusing) most recent issue's "revelations".

    1.)Masaki is Ichigo's mother, and is not someone else transformed into a girl. She was born Masaki and died Masaki. She like comes from a Quincy family, but was not actively using her powers.
    1a.)Her soul was contained in Grand Fisher, and was likely released when GF got taken down by Isshin.
    2.)Bach and Isshin are not the same individual.
    3.)Bach is not a manifested Zpac or anything like that; he really is an absurdly old human-Quincy.

    Way I see it, there are 2 possible fathers for Ichigo right now.

    Isshin is Ichigo's father
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    1.)They share extremely similar Zpaks. Like, names are similar, same special move, same final move even.
    2.)They fight similarly, and even move/look rather similar.
    3.)I'd rather not think Isshin blatantly lied about being Ichigo's dad.
    4.)I don't want to accept terrible retcons.
    5.)Ichigo's unique receptiveness to Shinigami powers had to come from somewhere.
    6.)If Masaki had had Ichigo by way of Bach, and Isshin knew the kid wasn't his.....why isn't the dynamic different?
    7.)What about Ichigo's sisters? Are they not Isshin's kids either?
    8.)Didn't that gigai Isshin used turn him into a regular mortal?
    9.)Bach could be his grandfather on Ichigo's mother's side.


    Bach is Ichigo's father
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    1.)He said he is.
    2.)He sorta looks like Zangetsu's spirit (in shikai form).
    3.)He apparently worked with Aizen some, so maybe illusions were involved. This does have...unfortunate implications. Though if it was just one time, it sorta hearkens to some versions of how Arthur Pendragon was conceived. So...Arthurian meta-reference for the win?
    4.)Isshin seems a decent enough chap to take Ichigo on if Masaki came to him after Ichigo was born. That this implies reasons for Masaki running away from Bach is unfortunate, but honestly I don't' like Bach at all and wish he wasn't spoiling the name of a great composer, even by a small measure.
    5.)Kubo likes new shiny things.
    6.)Because who cares about what makes sense!



    ...Yeah, not really a fan of theory #2.

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    Default Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

    Quote Originally Posted by Xondoure View Post
    Oda has trouble with females. But other than that I agree.
    This is true, I'll grant you. Though I think a lot of it his intentional on is part. Because we've seen how good he can be really.
    Last edited by Tebryn; 2012-11-01 at 08:30 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #198
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    Default Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tebryn View Post
    This is true, I'll grant you. Though I think a lot of it his intentional on is part. Because we've seen how good he can be really.
    It also has improved a lot as the story has gone on. In the beginning everyone was Nami. Now there's a few more distinct female characters.
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    Default Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    I have been monitoring (i.e. lurking in) these forums for a loooong time, but this time I felt motivated to actually signup in order to post something I'm surprised nobody has pointed out yet.
    Why are you trying to make sense out of it? It's Bleach. The plot is not consistent and Kubo pulls new stuff from his *hat* every second chapter. Why bother finding logic in madness?
    Btw feels good to be actually doing this. Now to set up a sig...
    first: welcome on board! I wish you a nice, pleasant and carefree stay at the Playground. Hop around and I'm sure it will all be well

    On topic: we know how Bleach works, but that doesn't mean we can try to make sense of it. It's liek a slight bit of masochism...

    yes, he pulls it from his *ahem* 'hat' *ahem*. we know and we frequently comment about it. but again, we are slightly masochistic and we like trying to make sense... It keeps us sane I guess...

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    Default Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

    Quote Originally Posted by KnightDisciple View Post
    So, I've let them simmer for a bit, but, here are some thoughts regarding this week's issue.

    Spoiler
    Show

    General Assumptions
    First, some points that I'm working from as assumed fact, based on the total collected body of work thus far, and my understanding of the (admittedly a bit jumbled and confusing) most recent issue's "revelations".

    1.)Masaki is Ichigo's mother, and is not someone else transformed into a girl. She was born Masaki and died Masaki. She like comes from a Quincy family, but was not actively using her powers.
    1a.)Her soul was contained in Grand Fisher, and was likely released when GF got taken down by Isshin.
    2.)Bach and Isshin are not the same individual.
    3.)Bach is not a manifested Zpac or anything like that; he really is an absurdly old human-Quincy.

    Way I see it, there are 2 possible fathers for Ichigo right now.

    Isshin is Ichigo's father
    Spoiler
    Show

    1.)They share extremely similar Zpaks. Like, names are similar, same special move, same final move even.
    2.)They fight similarly, and even move/look rather similar.
    3.)I'd rather not think Isshin blatantly lied about being Ichigo's dad.
    4.)I don't want to accept terrible retcons.
    5.)Ichigo's unique receptiveness to Shinigami powers had to come from somewhere.
    6.)If Masaki had had Ichigo by way of Bach, and Isshin knew the kid wasn't his.....why isn't the dynamic different?
    7.)What about Ichigo's sisters? Are they not Isshin's kids either?
    8.)Didn't that gigai Isshin used turn him into a regular mortal?
    9.)Bach could be his grandfather on Ichigo's mother's side.


    Bach is Ichigo's father
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    1.)He said he is.
    2.)He sorta looks like Zangetsu's spirit (in shikai form).
    3.)He apparently worked with Aizen some, so maybe illusions were involved. This does have...unfortunate implications. Though if it was just one time, it sorta hearkens to some versions of how Arthur Pendragon was conceived. So...Arthurian meta-reference for the win?
    4.)Isshin seems a decent enough chap to take Ichigo on if Masaki came to him after Ichigo was born. That this implies reasons for Masaki running away from Bach is unfortunate, but honestly I don't' like Bach at all and wish he wasn't spoiling the name of a great composer, even by a small measure.
    5.)Kubo likes new shiny things.
    6.)Because who cares about what makes sense!



    ...Yeah, not really a fan of theory #2.
    Personally, I've thought so far it could be pretty likely that Bach is Ichigo's grandfather rather than his father, yeah.

    Even if Bach is his father though, there's a reasonable enough explanation for the similarities between Ichigo and Isshin:
    Spoiler
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    Due to Quincy powers, Ichigo absorbed Isshin's reiatsu while being around him and thus was more receptive to becoming a substitute shinigami and gained similar powers.

    However, I don't deem this as likely due to Ichigo only now awakening his Quincy powers and Isshin being depowered at the time. He had been depowered for what, 20 years prior to Hueco Mundo arc? Ichigo was only 17 or so at the time, so that'd mean Isshin got depowered 3 years before Ichigo's birth.
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    Default Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

    Quote Originally Posted by Socratov View Post
    yes, he pulls it from his *ahem* 'hat' *ahem*. we know and we frequently comment about it. but again, we are slightly masochistic and we like trying to make sense... It keeps us sane I guess...
    While he does pull stuff from his "hat" people seem to be forgetting he plans some stuff long term. For instance, Shinji Hirako. A sketch of him was seen near(or at) the start of the series and he didn't actually show up until much later.

  22. - Top - End - #202
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    Default Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    While he does pull stuff from his "hat" people seem to be forgetting he plans some stuff long term. For instance, Shinji Hirako. A sketch of him was seen near(or at) the start of the series and he didn't actually show up until much later.
    ofcourse, but that doesn't mean he plans the concepts he comes up with, and plans it all. I'm not saying he doesn't plan anything, neither am I saying he pulls everything out of his *hihi* "hat" *giggle*, just a lot.

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  23. - Top - End - #203
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    Default Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

    You know, it's not uncommon in Japan for grandparents to call their grandsons just 'son'.

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    Default Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    While he does pull stuff from his "hat" people seem to be forgetting he plans some stuff long term. For instance, Shinji Hirako. A sketch of him was seen near(or at) the start of the series and he didn't actually show up until much later.
    The only problem with Kubo's foreshadowing is that it doesn't seem like foreshadowing, because he's not the best writer in the world. I should note, I was looking back at the Fullbring arc, and Ichigo's father was acting quite suspicious during it, and Ginjo was talking about a secret his father had. It turned out to be something stupid, but this MAY of been foreshadowing that his father isn't really his father.
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    Default Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Why are you trying to make sense out of it?
    Personally, I'm just enjoying it. There is so much err… room for all the wild guesses. It's especially entertaining with large group of theorists on board. No other manga managed to make me actively seek others to read their ideas about What.Is.Going.On. And then you get your own ideas and it gets better.

    Exception cannot prove the rule. It disproves it.

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    Default Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

    Personally, I'm surprised that the Masaki as Quincy theory was correct, and not not something like Ichigo absorbed some of Uryu's power.

    As far as the story goes I'm beginning to think this might end with something similar to the last chronological DUNE books with the Ultimate Kwitasz Haderach.
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    Default Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

    Quote Originally Posted by LordRahl6 View Post
    Personally, I'm surprised that the Masaki as Quincy theory was correct, and not not something like Ichigo absorbed some of Uryu's power.

    As far as the story goes I'm beginning to think this might end with something similar to the last chronological DUNE books with the Ultimate Kwitasz Haderach.
    Is this the part where Ichigo starts hallucinating and he slowly becomes unable to distinguish between his own memories and those of his ancestors?

    How long before Eagle Vision!?

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    Default Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

    Quote Originally Posted by VanBuren View Post
    Is this the part where Ichigo starts hallucinating and he slowly becomes unable to distinguish between his own memories and those of his ancestors?

    How long before Eagle Vision!?
    That would be awesome.

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    Default Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

    Quote Originally Posted by VanBuren View Post
    Is this the part where Ichigo starts hallucinating and he slowly becomes unable to distinguish between his own memories and those of his ancestors?

    How long before Eagle Vision!?
    Maybe when he dive-bombs enemies we can get that Eagle Screech.

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    Default Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)

    I honestly don't think it's been that bad. I mean, we finally have tension and character death...something people have been asking for since forever. It wasn't super dramatic or anything, but it's not like anyone who died was very sympathetic either. I'm sure if we lose a more plot central character like Chad or Ishida it will be more moving. Plus, we finally got to see Yama's bankai which is something we have wanted for a while.

    Also, it's been foreshadowed that something was going on with Ichigo's parents for how many hundreds of chapters now? We knew his dad got de-powered for a reason, and we knew there was something between him and Ishida's dad. It's not like this is a total ass-pull. Honestly, the Quincy thing makes a lot more sense than the fullbringing power up did. I also expect it to be used to bring Ishida back into the story as Ichigo will probably approach him in order to learn how to control the Quincy powers.

    All in all, I honestly feel like the manga is as good as it's been in a long time. It's not as good as the original Soul Society invasion arc...but it's a heck of a lot better than the fullbringing garbage we had before. I'd put things about on par with the Hueco Mundo invasion at this point.

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