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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Ressurection Arms Race (PF)

    I'm currently playing a character who I want to have multiple arrangements to have herself ressurected in the event of her death at the hands of her party members. However, I do not have enough knowlege of the system to know how to do this. We are currently level 9. I thought I could just leave a piece of my hair with a follower in another city who would raise dead on me when she heard that I had died, but I now know that the spell doesn't work like that.

    My question is, given equal resources, what actions would you take to ensure a character was ressurected upon their death? What actions could be used to counter them? How would you counter those counters? This is really just for fun because if this information even becomes relevent, both of us will have probably read this thread.


    If you want to know more campaign-specific resources both I and the person who would be trying to keep me dead have, they're under the spoiler.
    Spoiler
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    I have:
    -A telepathic link to a 20th level wizard who will probably be willing to make some effort to help if he isn't too busy. At the very least he'll probably alert the cleric.
    -Access to a 10ish level cleric who will definitely help if she hears I have died. (not with me)
    -4th level and below sorcerer spells that I could probably switch out before next session since we just leveled up.
    -At least 3 young blue dragons in the same city as the cleric.
    -A pretty ludicrous amount of mid-low level wizards and sorcerers. (Not with me)

    The other guy has:
    -A pretty ludicrous amount of barbarians and oracles. (Not with him)
    -Some amalgamation of Barbarian/Oracle/Rage Prophet that gives him 2nd level oracle spells at this point I think.
    -A scroll of Death Knell
    -WAY more player knowlege of the game than I have.

    Shared Resources:
    -A group of mid-level wizards willing to teleport us pretty much wherever. Provides half-price magic items to entire party. One of those wizards has a chair with Mage's Disjunction cast on it.
    -Pretty much instantaneous communication with anyone with connections to the secret society we work for. This one probably will favor me as I recently had half the leadership killed and replaced with agents loyal to me.
    -A reeeeeally indulgent DM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Morcleon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Ressurection Arms Race (PF)

    Buy a contingent revivify. It costs... 4500 gp for the spell, then another 1000 gp for the diamonds.

    Have the wizard or cleric be alerted to come over and heal you from your -1 HP, though, or else the other guy will just kill you again.
    Avatar of Furude Setsuna, by Telasi.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Ressurection Arms Race (PF)

    We're kind of restricted to pathfinder. That stuff is 3.5, isn't it?

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Morcleon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Ressurection Arms Race (PF)

    Quote Originally Posted by PaperMustache View Post
    We're kind of restricted to pathfinder. That stuff is 3.5, isn't it?
    ...ah, yeah, it is. You could ask said indulgent DM for it, though.

    Actually, I think revivify is in PF too...
    Avatar of Furude Setsuna, by Telasi.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mephit View Post
    Don't worry, I like my characters the way I like my coffee: Strong, but with no cheese in it.
    "Everyone carries something important enough to die for and they are running around so as not to lose it."
    -Kamijou Touma

    Homebrew:

    Nexus Characters
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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Ressurection Arms Race (PF)

    :P Patient and willing to let our plans/terrible decisions play out (usually well) instead of overruling us is probably more accurate a term than "indulgent". I don't think it would work because Revivify is psionic in PF and I don't think we're using psionics.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Morcleon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Ressurection Arms Race (PF)

    ...ah. Well then... Tell the wizard to tell the cleric to use raise dead+restoration (7000 gp+spell costs) on you if your telepathic link with him ever goes dead.
    Avatar of Furude Setsuna, by Telasi.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mephit View Post
    Don't worry, I like my characters the way I like my coffee: Strong, but with no cheese in it.
    "Everyone carries something important enough to die for and they are running around so as not to lose it."
    -Kamijou Touma

    Homebrew:

    Nexus Characters
    RailITP Characters

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Ressurection Arms Race (PF)

    Well yeah, but that's pretty easily countered if I get killed by a death effect like the scroll of Death Knell the other guy has. I don't have any reason in character to make sure it's destroyed.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    the clumsy bard's Avatar

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    Default Re: Ressurection Arms Race (PF)

    Ask to play an alchemist or become an alchemist... or ask for your DM to be nice to you and let you somehow get an equivalent power to this archetype

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Morcleon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Ressurection Arms Race (PF)

    Then have the cleric use resurrection+restoration (12000+spell costs) on you instead. Or get a Ring of Counterspelling with death knell cast into it, so if you are targeted by that spell, it's counterspelled.
    Avatar of Furude Setsuna, by Telasi.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mephit View Post
    Don't worry, I like my characters the way I like my coffee: Strong, but with no cheese in it.
    "Everyone carries something important enough to die for and they are running around so as not to lose it."
    -Kamijou Touma

    Homebrew:

    Nexus Characters
    RailITP Characters

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Ressurection Arms Race (PF)

    Why is Death Knell a bigger problem than, say, just being slashed in two with a big axe?

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Morcleon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Ressurection Arms Race (PF)

    Quote Originally Posted by Canarr View Post
    Why is Death Knell a bigger problem than, say, just being slashed in two with a big axe?
    Because death knell is a [Death] effect, and thus you can't be raised. If you're slashed in two, it's possible to stitch you back together to be raised.
    Avatar of Furude Setsuna, by Telasi.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mephit View Post
    Don't worry, I like my characters the way I like my coffee: Strong, but with no cheese in it.
    "Everyone carries something important enough to die for and they are running around so as not to lose it."
    -Kamijou Touma

    Homebrew:

    Nexus Characters
    RailITP Characters

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Ressurection Arms Race (PF)

    Quote Originally Posted by Canarr View Post
    Why is Death Knell a bigger problem than, say, just being slashed in two with a big axe?
    Because it's a death effect. If it kills you you can't be brought back by anything short of a true resurrection and I'm all out of 17th level clerics to cast that. At least that's how it was explained to me.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Morcleon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Ressurection Arms Race (PF)

    Quote Originally Posted by PaperMustache View Post
    Because it's a death effect. If it kills you you can't be brought back by anything short of a true resurrection and I'm all out of 17th level clerics to cast that. At least that's how it was explained to me.
    Actually, a standard (7th level) resurrection works fine with [Death] effects. It's just raise dead and the like that don't work with those types of things.
    Avatar of Furude Setsuna, by Telasi.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mephit View Post
    Don't worry, I like my characters the way I like my coffee: Strong, but with no cheese in it.
    "Everyone carries something important enough to die for and they are running around so as not to lose it."
    -Kamijou Touma

    Homebrew:

    Nexus Characters
    RailITP Characters

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Coidzor's Avatar

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    Default Re: Ressurection Arms Race (PF)

    Kill him first. The best defense is to make sure the other guy doesn't have a chance to act against you.

    Also it'll help out with the paranoia being drawn out for months on end by making it all come to a head.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    +3 Girlfriend is totally unoptimized. You are better off with a +1 Keen Witty girlfriend and then appling Greater Magic Make-up to increase her enhancement bonus.
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  15. - Top - End - #15
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Ressurection Arms Race (PF)

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    Kill him first. The best defense is to make sure the other guy doesn't have a chance to act against you.

    Also it'll help out with the paranoia being drawn out for months on end by making it all come to a head.
    Well yeah that would be the easy way except 1) He could kick my face in fairly easily in combat. 2) I don't really want him dead, I just want a contingency plan so that I can come back and torture-murder his wife and son if he decides to kill me. Really who has a wife and son in a dnd game and doesn't expect something horrible to happen to them? There must be repurcussions.

    Really I just want to see how far it could go between two characters countering each other over the resurrection.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Coidzor's Avatar

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    Default Re: Ressurection Arms Race (PF)

    IIRC, this combo still exists for foiling just about any form of resurrection.
    Flesh to Stone > Transmute Rock to Mud > Purify Food and Drink.


    Food for thought.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    +3 Girlfriend is totally unoptimized. You are better off with a +1 Keen Witty girlfriend and then appling Greater Magic Make-up to increase her enhancement bonus.
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  17. - Top - End - #17
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default Re: Ressurection Arms Race (PF)


  18. - Top - End - #18
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Ressurection Arms Race (PF)

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    IIRC, this combo still exists for foiling just about any form of resurrection.
    Flesh to Stone > Transmute Rock to Mud > Purify Food and Drink.


    Food for thought.
    Does mud count as drink?
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  19. - Top - End - #19
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Morcleon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Ressurection Arms Race (PF)

    Quote Originally Posted by Augmental View Post
    Does mud count as drink?
    Mud is earth and water. Purify Food and Drink removes the dirt. Then either drink the water or scatter it randomly around.
    Avatar of Furude Setsuna, by Telasi.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mephit View Post
    Don't worry, I like my characters the way I like my coffee: Strong, but with no cheese in it.
    "Everyone carries something important enough to die for and they are running around so as not to lose it."
    -Kamijou Touma

    Homebrew:

    Nexus Characters
    RailITP Characters

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Jack_Simth's Avatar

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    Default Re: Ressurection Arms Race (PF)

    Well, it's expensive, and there's still *some* holes, but:

    1: Permanency a Telepathic Bond with your Trusted Lieutenant, and leave some hair there, as well as the money needed to hire any necessary spells (or better, the items to just do them directly - a Ring of Three Wishes, although only one of the Wishes is strictly necessary).
    2: Make sure you do not sleep where the untrusted party member can find you (e.g., you turn yourself into something with a burrow speed, go underground, cast your Extended Rope Trick there, and sleep in that).
    3: If your side of the Telepathic Bond ever goes dead unexpectedly (it may go silent when you're sleeping, after all), Trusted Lieutenant takes a few steps:
    a) Attempts to Retrieve you (transport Travellers clause of Wish. If you're incapacitated, you don't get the save. If you're not incapacitated, you don't choose to resist).
    b) Attempts to revive you based on whatever is wrong.
    4: If more than ten hours pass without another contact after you tell your Trusted Lieutenant that you're going to sleep, Trusted Lieutenant attempts to retrieve you as per 3
    5: Make sure your Trusted Lieutenant either doesn't need to sleep, or only sleeps when you do.

    This is very expensive to set up, but in order to bypass this, your opponent would need to do one of the following:
    1) The entire method of dissolving you completely (Flesh to Stone, Stone to Mud, Purify Food and Drink, Drink water) all at once (before the Trusted Lieutenant can react to the severed bond by retrieving you)
    2) Ambush you when you're sleeping, giving lots of time to do the dissolution or other nastyness
    3) Get a Wish ready for when your body vanishes, to get it back.
    4) Subvert your Trusted Lieutenant in some manner that won't show up on the Telepathic Bond you keep with him (Difficult).
    5) Convince you to tell your Trusted Lieutenant that you'll be out of contact for a while due to planar boundaries (Difficult if you've read this far).
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

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