Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice

[Lady Serpentine]

You can absolutely make poisonous/alcoholic/delicious water - that is perfectly intended. Why not? If someone figures out how to break D&D via an infinite supply of alcoholic popsicles, kudos to them. The intention of her accelerated enchanting speed is to allow her to use the same 1 week/10 minute timeframe called out in the 1st level ability. This has been made explicit.

The easiest way I can think of is some sort of mind-control toxin (probably more like something that makes people open to suggesting courses of action and such, but close enough). I seem to recall that there are certain tranquilizers IRL that do similar things, or something like that?

I have absolutely no problem with spinoff works, and would love to hear what you've managed to work out up to this point.

Good to hear! The base fluff is in the first spoiler, and then there's the quote for what's essentially the opposite number of the Champion. Aside from that, we've been mostly waiting before we put a lot of work into it.

Spoiler

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As light is everywhere, so is the darkness. Even those who wield the former admit this is the case - they know that better than most, in fact; it is what makes them fight so hard against it every day.

But, despite the light shining in every mortal soul, most cannot feel it. At least, not often. And so, many of those who do not kindle embrace the dark that surrounds them, having, in many cases, given up hope that things will get better, and forgotten whatever of light they may once have felt.

And yet, despite that, once they have power, they often share goals with the children of the light. But they often also argue that, though their counterparts do make safe havens in their own spheres, even the strongest light can only do so much, and by keeping the dark away, they only shunt it off to elsewhere, and make it stronger outside of those strongholds.

That is not to say that they deny, necessarily, light has a place, or claim these strongholds are inherently bad (though there are those who think both) - merely that the children of light, despite their plans for the future, do not look to the consequences of their actions; many of them believe that only by accepting both, and using them in concert, can such things be prevented.

Spoiler

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"Miracles don't always come when they're called; that's why they're miraculous, not commonplace."
-Karel, a Shadebringer

[jamieth]

Regarding playing evokers in a published campaign, I'd like to hear how that goes! Any plans on which game you'd pick out for them?

Anything the community would suggest? I'm not that well-versed in the realm of 3.5 publications, being a Paizoanist myself, and I want to make it 3.5, due to it being the "official" system of ToR, with PF being a "fan-conversion".

Also, on the matter of PDF... I decided there should really be 2, 3.5 and PF. Luckily, the amount of changes isn't going to be that great, I hope, but still... therefore, I decided to go through a proper editing process on some more... online source first (search function or not, forums can be a mess to work with...)... therefore, I present you: a Tome of Radiance's own Wiki.

[Merellis]

Can't decide if I should go with Sayaka as the iconic for Champion or just make up a new one.

Eh, I'll try both and see what sticks for me before presenting it. This is gonna be fun!

[jamieth]

Definitely should be the original one... or at least the "serial numbers filed off" one. We don't want any copyright issues. I went with Sayaka's pic as a temporary placeholder anyway, on the basis of her providing the page quote :-)

[Merellis]

Definitely should be the original one... or at least the "serial numbers filed off" one. We don't want any copyright issues. I went with Sayaka's pic as a temporary placeholder anyway, on the basis of her providing the page quote :-)

That was pretty much my thought with going with her in the first place, the page quote! Plus you can go with back story at level 12 for her fall into darkness.

[caledscratcher]

Speaking of spinoffs, I've been starting up work on a sort of Pathfinder version of ToR, presently called the Brightness Book. There'll also be the Tenebrous Tome (darkness), Lifeforce Libram (chi), and Affection Archive (love), in addition to whatever else I eventually come up with. Each is starting with three base classes and possibly a race or two, as well as the potential for archetypes and PrCs.

Some random ideas for other projects inspired by the wondrousness of ToR are the Fantastic Fable (imagination), Stellar Scrolls (astronomy [coughcoughSailorScouts/RomanMythcoughcough]), Talented Texts (skill-based ToR stuff, probably inspired by what little I've seen of Smile! PreCure), and Melodious Masterpiece (music!).

[UserShadow7989]

I'm a fan of all forms of minion-mancy and the like, and I relish the chance to combine that with my love for the ToR homebrews, so the new Companion illuminations are right up my ally.

On that note, I felt the need to point out a rules quirk caused by them having no ability scores. A creature with no Dexterity cannot move, and a creature who has no Strength cannot exert any force, and in either case auto-fail any Dexterity/Strength checks.

The 'cannot exert force' bit is likely overridden by the text specifying they have a carrying capacity, but RAW they'd be immobile (definitely not intentional as they have specified move speeds) and I think they would auto-fail all skill checks (meaning they'd be unable to move from a spot that requires balance checks to not fall/get back up, and can never sneak past people). They are also not living creatures, as they have no Constitution, which would prevent the basic Cure X Wounds series from working on them.

By the same token, how do they interact with effects like the Sleep spell, seeing as they have no hit dice? Would it work since 0 is less than 4, or would they be flat-out immune to all effects dependent on them?

That said, these are minor mechanical nitpicks easily waved away by stating the companion is an exception to the rules on creatures with no Strength/Dexterity, that they count as having a Str/Dex mod of +0, they count as living(if that is desired or the non-living part is intentional), and something for the skill checks/hit dice (use the character's skill mods and hit dice for such purposes?). It's mostly that having no attributes makes as many things wonky as it simplifies.

[jamieth]

OK, Wiki status update: Page 1 done, 28 to go!

upd: actually? it's up to middle of page 8!

[Selinia]

Changelog!

• Companions now possess HD and ability scores, though their stats are still derived entirely from their components. They've also gained the Construct creature type - while they're still immune to many forms of debuffing, they are decidedly more vulnerable to control than they used to be.
• Companions may no longer expend their Companion Focus to upgrade basic attacks. Greater attacks come exclusively from mote-expending and actions by the evoker. Not only did this option push companion damage uncomfortably high, it forced utility to compete with damage, which is generally a design no-no in 3.5. Damage will always win that fight.
• The THP granted by the Hopeful ability has been normalized and buffed, to make it more reliable and comparable with THP granting options available to some other casters via feats or spells.

Good to hear! The base fluff is in the first spoiler, and then there's the quote for what's essentially the opposite number of the Champion. Aside from that, we've been mostly waiting before we put a lot of work into it.

Spoiler

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As light is everywhere, so is the darkness. Even those who wield the former admit this is the case - they know that better than most, in fact; it is what makes them fight so hard against it every day.

But, despite the light shining in every mortal soul, most cannot feel it. At least, not often. And so, many of those who do not kindle embrace the dark that surrounds them, having, in many cases, given up hope that things will get better, and forgotten whatever of light they may once have felt.

And yet, despite that, once they have power, they often share goals with the children of the light. But they often also argue that, though their counterparts do make safe havens in their own spheres, even the strongest light can only do so much, and by keeping the dark away, they only shunt it off to elsewhere, and make it stronger outside of those strongholds.

That is not to say that they deny, necessarily, light has a place, or claim these strongholds are inherently bad (though there are those who think both) - merely that the children of light, despite their plans for the future, do not look to the consequences of their actions; many of them believe that only by accepting both, and using them in concert, can such things be prevented.

Spoiler

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"Miracles don't always come when they're called; that's why they're miraculous, not commonplace."
-Karel, a Shadebringer

Interesting. I cannot read that and not think of Dark Souls (one of my favorite games ever), and its lovely ambiguity in the nature of light and darkness. I agree that Dark shouldn't be framed as evil any more than Light is all good - all it takes is a look at the Vile or Consumption components to realize how horrifying radiant power can get.

Anything the community would suggest? I'm not that well-versed in the realm of 3.5 publications, being a Paizoanist myself, and I want to make it 3.5, due to it being the "official" system of ToR, with PF being a "fan-conversion".

Also, on the matter of PDF... I decided there should really be 2, 3.5 and PF. Luckily, the amount of changes isn't going to be that great, I hope, but still... therefore, I decided to go through a proper editing process on some more... online source first (search function or not, forums can be a mess to work with...)... therefore, I present you: a Tome of Radiance's own Wiki.

Holy Madoka, you work fast. Less than a day and most of the core content is up on that wiki - great job as always is all I can say.

As for published 3.5 adventures, I admit I don't have much practical experience in the field myself - I've always run and played in custom campaigns. That said, I've read through several, and remember Sunless Citadel, Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, and The Forge of Fury being quite well put together. It's been a while, but I do believe that last one is also very dungeon crawl focused, which is an adventure format I've found to be very good for all-around playtesting.

Can't decide if I should go with Sayaka as the iconic for Champion or just make up a new one.

Eh, I'll try both and see what sticks for me before presenting it. This is gonna be fun!

One thing I will note - don't feel like an iconic has to be based on the quote source! Heck, I am going to be aiming to replace to quotes with good character-specific quotes from Iconic originals once we have a few good ones.

Extremely valid mechanics criticism.

Thanks for making these observations! All this was taken into account in the first round of tweaks on Companion mechanics.

[Adam1949]

I've been reading through this thread over the last day or so, and lemme tell you that this is absolutely amazing! I'm always surprised by how much unique work and modular-ness can be given to things as stereotypically against 'classic' D&D like Magical Girls, or Exalted-style classes (the Mythos system that I'm helping with).

I'll admit, though, that my mind wanders to strange things, and so whereas a lot of these classes and abilities are meant to reference certain things, I see them in a different... well, light. For instance...

-The Empath, with the terms 'Persona' and the usage of the Tarot, remind me of the Persona videogame series.
-The Firekeeper is pretty much from Dark Souls, yes?
-The Frostfell Maven is supposed to be Elsa from Frozen, but I also see Cirno from Touhou in it, too.
-The Redeemer of Nine is a Madoka Grief-Seed using magical girl, right?
-The Valkyrie, with the 'iconic' quote, is a reference to Prisma Illya, may I assume?
-The Heartwielder smacks pretty obviously, to me at least, of EMIYA, AKA Archer from Fate/Stay Night. Or am I reading the 'Steel is my Body, Fire is my Blood' a little too much?

Anyway, awesome stuff! If I can ever find a group to play with, I'll definitely be making one of these

[Snowfire]

-The Heartwielder smacks pretty obviously, to me at least, of EMIYA, AKA Archer from Fate/Stay Night. Or am I reading the 'Steel is my Body, Fire is my Blood' a little too much?

Blame a friend of mine who linked me to Unlimited Blade Works a few days before I wrote the class. There're definitely links, but in the end the Heartwielder only has access to a single weapon. True, it's an absolutely perfect, lethally effective and effectively indestructible weapon (and that's not even the half of it) but it's still just one weapon.

So...maybe a little too much reading into the names. But only a little.

Also, Selinia: The link to the Many-As-One directs to Radiant Armourer. I'll see what I can do on iconics - I have a few half finished sheets lying around, just need to pull them together.

Pretty much all of them are in the mid-to-high teens in terms of level, but then I'm a sucker for showing off the toys on their classes.

[Lady Serpentine]

Interesting. I cannot read that and not think of Dark Souls (one of my favorite games ever), and its lovely ambiguity in the nature of light and darkness. I agree that Dark shouldn't be framed as evil any more than Light is all good - all it takes is a look at the Vile or Consumption components to realize how horrifying radiant power can get.

Well, I was playing a lot of Dark Souls around when I started making this... And indeed; evil champions corrupting people, or the one PrC harvesting souls for demons, too.

[sreservoir]

Companions
Calling to the world's radiance and the depths of an evoker's own heart and mind, Companion illuminations draw forth powerful allies for those that learn to harness their power. An evoker may possess understanding of Blast illuminations or Companion illuminations - not both. She selects her specialization upon gaining her first evoker level, and once made, this decision can never be reversed.

... psychic reformation?

Each Companion illumination represents a specific creature, and an evoker may only possess a single active companion at any given time. Injuries inflicted to a companion persist, even if it is dismissed and resummoned, though an evoker may fully heal all of her companions by focusing intently in a one minute ritual. Further, should a companion be reduced to zero or fewer HP, it fully discorporates and may not be resummoned until the evoker has spent a full eight hours in restful sleep (or her racial equivalent). As constructs of radiance and dreamstuff, companions possess no ability scores, HD, or other such features, deriving their statistics purely from the evoker and illumination components. While individual companions may be sentient (effectively using the evoker's mental ability scores), and even possess individual personalities, they are still ultimately just reflections of the evoker's own mind. For the purposes of determining carrying capacity, treat a companion's strength score as being equal to its summoner's evoker stat.

Evoking a Companion illumination for a companion that is not already summoned instantly dismisses any currently active companion, and manifests the new companion in an unoccupied square within 30'. Evoking a Companion illumination for an already active companion instead allows it to immediately use its Greater attack as a free action, and grants it Companion Focus, which may be expended to fuel various abilities.

Once summoned, a companion possesses a full complement of actions, and acts on its summoner's initiative each round (starting with the round it was summoned), but is only capable of using a limited selection of actions. As a move action, a companion may move its speed. As a standard action, it may use its basic attack. When making a basic attack, a companion may expend its Companion Focus to use a greater attack instead. Depending on its components, the companion may possess additional options. Whenever an evoker's companion makes an attack roll, it may benefit from any enhancement bonus applied to the evoker's device, in addition to any other listed modifiers to its attack roll. Whenever a companion would make a saving throw, it uses the evoker's saves. Companions are immune to all effects other than hit point damage.

Evoking a Companion illumination is a standard action.

all this companions-are-not-creatures ... makes things really complicated and creates strange rules interactions, some of which UserShadow7989 has pointed out.

... I would have had suggestions but okay that's getting fixed anyway

Foundation Components

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Cautious [Champion, Empath, Stargazer]
Basic Attack: The companion attacks a target within reach with an attack bonus equal to [3 + mote cost + evoker stat modifier], dealing 1d6 physical damage for each 2m of the illumination's cost on a hit (minimum 1d6 damage). Once per round, and an additional time per round for every 4m of this illumination's cost, the companion may respond with this attack when a creature within reach provokes an attack of opportunity.

Greater Attack: The companion attacks a target within reach with an attack bonus equal to [3 + mote cost + evoker stat modifier], dealing 1d6 physical damage for each 1m of the illumination's cost on a hit, and half this damage on a miss. A creature struck by this ability provokes attacks of opportunity from the companion (but not any other creatures) with all forms of movement (including 5' steps) until the end of the companion's next turn.

Focused [Champion, Empath, Stargazer]
Basic Attack: The companion attacks a target within 20' with an attack bonus equal to [3 + mote cost + evoker stat modifier], dealing 1d6 physical damage for each 2m of the illumination's cost on a hit (minimum 1d6 damage). For every 1m of the illumination's cost, the range of this attack increases by 10'.

Greater Attack: The companion fires a beam that takes the form of a line 10' long, dealing 1d6 physical damage for each 1m to those caught within it. A reflex save halves this damage. For every 1m of the illumination's cost, the length of this beam increases by 5'.

Brash [Champion, Empath, Stargazer]
Basic Attack: The companion attacks a random target within reach (other than itself or the evoker who summoned it) with an attack bonus equal to [3 + mote cost + evoker stat modifier], dealing 1d6 physical damage for each 2m of the illumination's cost on a hit (minimum 1d6 damage). If the attack hits, the companion will make this again, selecting a new random target from those within reach - the same target may not be selected twice, and the companion may continue to make attacks until missing or running out of valid targets.

Greater Attack: The companion attacks assails all creatures within reach (other than itself or the evoker who summoned it), dealing 1d6 physical damage for each 1m of the illumination's cost. A reflex save halves this damage. If the illumination costs at least 3m, the companion may move as part of this assault, targeting all creatures within its reach at any point of the movement. This movement extends for 5' for every 3m of the illumination's cost, and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Mischievous [Stargazer]
Basic Attack: The companion targets a creature within 10', dealing 1d4 physical damage for each 2m of the illumination's cost and moving the target 5' in any horizontal direction - this movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. A successful reflex save halves this damage, and negates the forced movement. For every 1m of the illumination's cost, the range of this attack increases by 5'. For every 4m of the illumination's cost, the distance of the forced movement increases by 5' - this forced movement need not be in a straight line.

Greater Attack: The companion targets a 5' radius burst within 10', dealing 1d4 physical damage for each 1m of the illumination's cost and moving the targets 5' in any horizontal direction - this movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. A successful reflex save halves this damage, and negates the forced movement. For every 1m of the illumination's cost, the range of this attack increases by 5'. For every 4m of the illumination's cost, the distance of the forced movement increases by 5' - this forced movement need not be in a straight line. For every 6m of the illumination's cost, the radius of the burst increases by 5'.

Dauntless [Champion, Empath, Stargazer]
Basic Attack: The companion may move up to its speed in a straight line, then makes an attack against a creature within its reach with an attack bonus equal to [3 + mote cost + evoker stat modifier], dealing 1d6 physical damage for each 2m of the illumination's cost on a hit (minimum 1d6 damage). If the companion moved at least 10' before making the attack, the damage die are d8s, rather than d6s.

Greater Attack: The companion may move up to its speed in a straight line, making an attack at any point during this movement against a creature within its reach with an attack bonus equal to [3 + mote cost + evoker stat modifier], dealing 1d8 physical damage for each 1m of the illumination's cost on a hit and half this damage on a miss. If the companion has any movement remaining after hitting its target with this attack, it may choose to push the target along in front of it for the remainder of the move.

so the really big losses of companions compared to blasts seem to be a) lack of variety in shapes and b) they're not RTAs, but in exchange the companion can actually greater attack + focus → greater attack + device → attack, moving twice while doing that, which makes up for the lack of shapes (in fact, less need to buy up blasts with multiple shapes—even if, in a pinch, flight + cone shape covers most things anyway); in the case of Dauntless, that's a lot of movement.

the one effect companions are better at is forcing movement: three mischievous hits can force a total of 15' + 15'/4m from (10+5/m)' away, which really shuts down actually a lot of things. melee is the main thing, but also Close-range spells, starting 8th level, and that's while doing passable 2.5ELd6/rd damage.

subject to actually hitting, of course, and reflex save failure, and that's where it's lacking. still, tremors blast is barely more at 5'/m and a lot less of a precision instrument.

... also, swarms component makes blasting something totally unrelated kind of viable. possible it should restrict targets to being hit once, instead of just creatures, since otherwise you can have exponential-scaling damage against objects you really don't like by hitting it repeatedly with a swarms blast. (level 20 demolitions swarms 5 vs. object: 2*20d4 + 2*2*18d4 + 4*2*16d4 + 8*2*14d4 + 16*2*12d4 + 32*2*10d4 = 2*744d4 ignores hardness :DDD ... the exponential doesn't really get to do its thing well until level 8 anyway, though, and by then it's probably fine if you can destroy the scenery anyway though.)

Shape Components

>((( no swim speeds!

... possibly there could be secondary components to add additional supplementary speeds?

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Tremendous [Champion, Empath, Stargazer]
[Mote Cost: 5m]
The companion is bursting with radiant power, expanding to far greater sizes than others of its kind. The companion's size catagory increases by one. This does not grant any of the normal penalties or benefits for increasing in size, but it does increase the companion's reach and carrying capacity appropriately.

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nothing corresponding for smaller than medium? hm.

(also am mildly disappointed no stacking means I wouldn't be able to have a colossal+ flying whale, even with champion capstone ...)

Attuned [Empath, Stargazer]
[Mote Cost: 2m + 1m/rank beyond the first]
Many evokers find a deep affinity with the elemental energies that comprise the world, so it is unsurprising that their companions would often be similarly aligned. Upon crafting this illumination, you may select an energy type (Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire, or Sonic). The damage dealt by the companion's attacks becomes energy damage of that type, rather than physical damage, and the companion gains Resist 5 to that energy type. This resistance increases by 5 for every rank beyond the first.

say, uh, interaction with primal costume element? (it says blast, specifically.) and companion damage is damaged caused by an illumination for purposes of firekeeper/frostfell maven, yes?

Harrying [Champion, Empath, Stargazer]
[Mote Cost: 4m]
Your companion is an expert at team fighting, working seamlessly to drive foes into the traps and snares laid by your allies. Whenever the companion deals damage with an attack on its turn, it may expend its companion focus as a free action in order to render a single damaged target flat-footed against the next attack to target it from any source. If no attack targets the harried creature, it ceases to become flat-footed at the end of its next turn.

[/QUOTE]

... iaijutsu focus, anyone? rather, everyone?

[Morcleon]

Interesting. I cannot read that and not think of Dark Souls (one of my favorite games ever), and its lovely ambiguity in the nature of light and darkness. I agree that Dark shouldn't be framed as evil any more than Light is all good - all it takes is a look at the Vile or Consumption components to realize how horrifying radiant power can get.

Hello! I'm the friend C'nor was talking about.

And yes, our aim was to have a dark counterpart to the light. I haven't played Dark Souls though, so I can't comment on that. xD

As for mechanics, my first thought was to use a sort of invocation system, but with some customization built-in. Since darkness is ever-present, at-will abilities fit it very well.

[NineThePuma]

Interesting. I cannot read that and not think of Dark Souls (one of my favorite games ever), and its lovely ambiguity in the nature of light and darkness. I agree that Dark shouldn't be framed as evil any more than Light is all good - all it takes is a look at the Vile or Consumption components to realize how horrifying radiant power can get.

I actually have a Dark Stargazer in my folder of Characters I Want To Play. It's kind of amazing just how horrifying you can get.

[Lix Lorn]

If you multiclass different evoker classes, can you take blasts with one and companions with the other?

Also Champion is missing its HD right now.

...also also Mira has dibs on Empath iconic. I'll try and get to that soon.

[Qwertystop]

I was actually considering Koyya for the Immortal iconic, when I get far enough to actually get levels in it. I honestly don't have enough of a game-sense to be completely sure of the build-path without more gameplay.

[NineThePuma]

I feel like if we start building Iconics for every single class here it should have most of the discussion in another thread and then have the statblocks posted here and linked or something, instead of derailing this thread into that.

[Snowfire]

I feel like if we start building Iconics for every single class here it should have most of the discussion in another thread and then have the statblocks posted here and linked or something, instead of derailing this thread into that.

The only ones that need discussion are the Base class ones. IMHO. The PrCs can be done by either their creator or whoever says they'd like to do one. Or you can get multiple, considering that all of mine are going to be high level.

Also, re: darkness based variant thing. Hey C'nor, oh god not you again Morc If you'd like a sounding board, don't hesitate to ask. I've got a pretty good handle on this sort of thing at this point.

[UserShadow7989]

Changelog!

• Companions now possess HD and ability scores, though their stats are still derived entirely from their components. They've also gained the Construct creature type - while they're still immune to many forms of debuffing, they are decidedly more vulnerable to control than they used to be.
• Companions may no longer expend their Companion Focus to upgrade basic attacks. Greater attacks come exclusively from mote-expending and actions by the evoker. Not only did this option push companion damage uncomfortably high, it forced utility to compete with damage, which is generally a design no-no in 3.5. Damage will always win that fight.
• The THP granted by the Hopeful ability has been normalized and buffed, to make it more reliable and comparable with THP granting options available to some other casters via feats or spells.

All sounds good. There's some things I missed the first time, though; What action is it to dismiss a summoned Companion, and how does a Companion obtain a Companion Focus? I assume the former is a free action or an at-will thing?

Thanks for making these observations! All this was taken into account in the first round of tweaks on Companion mechanics.

You're welcome. Admittedly, I only caught what I did because I had the same issue once.

Anything the community would suggest? I'm not that well-versed in the realm of 3.5 publications, being a Paizoanist myself, and I want to make it 3.5, due to it being the "official" system of ToR, with PF being a "fan-conversion".

Also, on the matter of PDF... I decided there should really be 2, 3.5 and PF. Luckily, the amount of changes isn't going to be that great, I hope, but still... therefore, I decided to go through a proper editing process on some more... online source first (search function or not, forums can be a mess to work with...)... therefore, I present you: a Tome of Radiance's own Wiki.

Seconding Selinia on the wiki; awesome work! As for modules, I've admittedly always played in custom campaigns, but I do recall hearing about solo modules. One or two of those might be a good way to test how flexible a class is and how much it can contribute under certain situations, though I can't say from personal experience. In relation to your original plan, though, I don't know any off the top of my head, so I'll just have to second the recommendations already stated.


As an aside, I'm looking forwards to the dark counterparts and how it all turns out; best of luck with it!

[Selinia]

I've been reading through this thread over the last day or so, and lemme tell you that this is absolutely amazing! I'm always surprised by how much unique work and modular-ness can be given to things as stereotypically against 'classic' D&D like Magical Girls, or Exalted-style classes (the Mythos system that I'm helping with).

I'll admit, though, that my mind wanders to strange things, and so whereas a lot of these classes and abilities are meant to reference certain things, I see them in a different... well, light. For instance...

-The Empath, with the terms 'Persona' and the usage of the Tarot, remind me of the Persona videogame series.
-The Firekeeper is pretty much from Dark Souls, yes?
-The Frostfell Maven is supposed to be Elsa from Frozen, but I also see Cirno from Touhou in it, too.
-The Redeemer of Nine is a Madoka Grief-Seed using magical girl, right?
-The Valkyrie, with the 'iconic' quote, is a reference to Prisma Illya, may I assume?
-The Heartwielder smacks pretty obviously, to me at least, of EMIYA, AKA Archer from Fate/Stay Night. Or am I reading the 'Steel is my Body, Fire is my Blood' a little too much?

Anyway, awesome stuff! If I can ever find a group to play with, I'll definitely be making one of these

All of those are pretty spot-on with the exception of the Valkyrie which was actually more Valkyria Chronicles than anything else. I like to vary the source material up - there's a lot of things out there that can provide some pretty stellar inspiration. Fluff-wise, the Redeemer of Nine is still my favorite item in the entire ToR. The class mechanics and fluff design mesh just beautifully.

Also, Selinia: The link to the Many-As-One directs to Radiant Armourer. I'll see what I can do on iconics - I have a few half finished sheets lying around, just need to pull them together.

Pretty much all of them are in the mid-to-high teens in terms of level, but then I'm a sucker for showing off the toys on their classes.

Broken link fixed. As for high level iconics, all I'd like to say is bear in mind that the more midrange a PrC iconic is, the easier it is to fit into a variety of games. Still, for late entry classe sin particular, there's nothing wrong with a high level NPC.

Spoiler

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... psychic reformation?

all this companions-are-not-creatures ... makes things really complicated and creates strange rules interactions, some of which UserShadow7989 has pointed out.

... I would have had suggestions but okay that's getting fixed anyway



so the really big losses of companions compared to blasts seem to be a) lack of variety in shapes and b) they're not RTAs, but in exchange the companion can actually greater attack + focus → greater attack + device → attack, moving twice while doing that, which makes up for the lack of shapes (in fact, less need to buy up blasts with multiple shapes—even if, in a pinch, flight + cone shape covers most things anyway); in the case of Dauntless, that's a lot of movement.

the one effect companions are better at is forcing movement: three mischievous hits can force a total of 15' + 15'/4m from (10+5/m)' away, which really shuts down actually a lot of things. melee is the main thing, but also Close-range spells, starting 8th level, and that's while doing passable 2.5ELd6/rd damage.

subject to actually hitting, of course, and reflex save failure, and that's where it's lacking. still, tremors blast is barely more at 5'/m and a lot less of a precision instrument.

... also, swarms component makes blasting something totally unrelated kind of viable. possible it should restrict targets to being hit once, instead of just creatures, since otherwise you can have exponential-scaling damage against objects you really don't like by hitting it repeatedly with a swarms blast. (level 20 demolitions swarms 5 vs. object: 2*20d4 + 2*2*18d4 + 4*2*16d4 + 8*2*14d4 + 16*2*12d4 + 32*2*10d4 = 2*744d4 ignores hardness :DDD ... the exponential doesn't really get to do its thing well until level 8 anyway, though, and by then it's probably fine if you can destroy the scenery anyway though.)



>((( no swim speeds!

... possibly there could be secondary components to add additional supplementary speeds?



nothing corresponding for smaller than medium? hm.

(also am mildly disappointed no stacking means I wouldn't be able to have a colossal+ flying whale, even with champion capstone ...)



say, uh, interaction with primal costume element? (it says blast, specifically.) and companion damage is damaged caused by an illumination for purposes of firekeeper/frostfell maven, yes?

Harrying [Champion, Empath, Stargazer]
[Mote Cost: 4m]
Your companion is an expert at team fighting, working seamlessly to drive foes into the traps and snares laid by your allies. Whenever the companion deals damage with an attack on its turn, it may expend its companion focus as a free action in order to render a single damaged target flat-footed against the next attack to target it from any source. If no attack targets the harried creature, it ceases to become flat-footed at the end of its next turn.

... iaijutsu focus, anyone? rather, everyone?[/SPOILER][/QUOTE]

Companions are still not quite creatures, but they now have most of the elements of being a creature, so strange interactions should be reduced significantly. Their offensive power has also been nerfed significantly with the loss of the ability to turn Focus into yet more damage.

Companion damage -is- caused by an illumination for the purpose of elemental classes and such, but not keying off of Primal is deliberate. Primal is a blasting component, and access to it is one of the things a companion evoker sacrifices. Companion components are still really bare bones at the moment - a size reduced, alternate movement modes, etc are definitely in the works once I can hammer them out.

Hello! I'm the friend C'nor was talking about.

And yes, our aim was to have a dark counterpart to the light. I haven't played Dark Souls though, so I can't comment on that. xD

As for mechanics, my first thought was to use a sort of invocation system, but with some customization built-in. Since darkness is ever-present, at-will abilities fit it very well.

If I might make a recommendation, have you looked at 4E's Psionic system? I believe that there are some solid ideas there you could draw on. In essence, a psionic character has a pool of at-will abilities, and per-encounter resource that can be expended augmenting the invocations in different ways. It would be rather interesting I think to have a few core, very basic powers on a character, with a focus on shaping those into more specific and potent abilities via flexible augmentation. It also stands as a rather interesting mechanical mirror to Illuminations, which are all pretty and pre-built and internal - shadow powers would be unformed and undefined, shaped from the darkness all around.

That's just brainstorming though - it's you're project, and you might have something even better already in mind!

If you multiclass different evoker classes, can you take blasts with one and companions with the other?

Also Champion is missing its HD right now.

...also also Mira has dibs on Empath iconic. I'll try and get to that soon.

Multiclassing would allow for companions and blasts both, yes. I'm not terribly concerned - multiclassing different evoker classes is still generally a terrible idea, and both Blasts and Companions really do need your motes and standard actions to be fully effective.

Champion HD fixed.

I feel like if we start building Iconics for every single class here it should have most of the discussion in another thread and then have the statblocks posted here and linked or something, instead of derailing this thread into that.

It wouldn't likely be used explusively for this, but I am strongly considering putting up a #TomeOfRadiance IRC channel. We all seem to tend to be online at the same time, and it allows for much more fluid communication. Heck, I've been ninja'd a couple times already writing these replies.

All sounds good. There's some things I missed the first time, though; What action is it to dismiss a summoned Companion, and how does a Companion obtain a Companion Focus? I assume the former is a free action or an at-will thing?

Added in a line mentioning that Companions can be dismissed as a swift action. Dissipating them actually takes a bit of effort - and can't be done off-turn to yank them out of harm's way. Companion focus is granted when you give a direct command to a companion, as mentioned already.

Evoking a Companion illumination for an already active companion instead allows it to immediately use its Greater attack as a free action, and grants it Companion Focus, which may be expended to fuel various abilities.

What this essentially boils down to is that if you aren't paying attention to your companion, not only is it not going to be able to use its strongest attacks, it won't have access to a lot of special abilities either. Evokers aren't wizards - their bond with their pet is very tight, and they really do need to work together.

[Yarghenforgen]

Sup. Lurk this thread often, might've even posted in it once or twice. Just stating that inspiration struck me, so I'm putting together a possible Fashionista iconic.

Looking to be level 11, Champion 6/Fashionista 5, and will use Companions. Tenative name is Janna the Dollmaker

Warforged is fine for a race, right? Because unarmored warforged fits the bill nicely for my idea.


Edit: Sorry, I guess this sounds a little forward. First I suppose I should ask to make sure that nobody else was already planning on making the fashionista iconic.

[Merellis]

It wouldn't likely be used explusively for this, but I am strongly considering putting up a #TomeOfRadiance IRC channel. We all seem to tend to be online at the same time, and it allows for much more fluid communication. Heck, I've been ninja'd a couple times already writing these replies.

Ooooh, I like that idea.

[NineThePuma]

I feel like my Dark Stargazer doesn't fit, but maybe as a Keeper of Nine iconic?

[UserShadow7989]

Ah, missed that bit with the Companion Focus in the text, sorry. I really do like how the mechanic is handed, as well as other touches to the Companions that streamlines the turn of the evoker, rather than causing it to bloat from multiple sets of actions (something that's easy for a minion-mancer to cause unintentionally, like the Pathfinder Summoner class).

I have to agree with the idea of an Irc channel, what with how active the thread is. It'd be a big help in communicating/responding to everything quicker.

[Selinia]

The server Gryphon.MagicStar.net is now hosting [ #TomeOfRadiance ]! I'm not actually available in there right at this moment, since I'm going to bed now and I have stuff in the morning, but the room is up if anyone else feels like popping in. I tend to be on in the evenings most consistently, but I'll always try to have at least a dummy in the channel so I can read anything that gets said when I get back.

Sup. Lurk this thread often, might've even posted in it once or twice. Just stating that inspiration struck me, so I'm putting together a possible Fashionista iconic.

Looking to be level 11, Champion 6/Fashionista 5, and will use Companions. Tenative name is Janna the Dollmaker

Warforged is fine for a race, right? Because unarmored warforged fits the bill nicely for my idea.


Edit: Sorry, I guess this sounds a little forward. First I suppose I should ask to make sure that nobody else was already planning on making the fashionista iconic.

Warforged is perfectly fine as a race! They're definitely not your traditional evokers with their stat array, but there is a lot of flavor potential there, and their toughness has the potential to be a real boon for the combat-focused fashionista.

And I wouldn't worry overmuch about accidentally duplicating efforts. If you have an idea, go for it and just announce that you're doing so. If I somehow wind up with multiple submissions for the same class, I'll try and pick out the best one as the 'official face' - but there's room for more as sample builds.

[jamieth]

Quick update: the Wiki now includes all the material up to and including page 11.

(Avatar of Light wasn't missed, by the way, it's just that I'm currently limiting Wiki to 3.5, which doesn't have Mythic rules)

Here's the list of issues I found while translating all these PrCs to wiki:

1. Radiant Armourer (Page 9)
1.1 Enchanced Arnoury progresses Enchanced Armament, a feature that no longer exists.
1.2 Reforged Radiance references Enchanced Armaments.
1.3 Forum table requires updating

2. Immortal (Page 11)
2.1 Never Falter lacks a designation. (Ex?)

3. Valkyrie (Page 11)
3.1 Enchanced Armaments no longer exist
3.2 Extra Imbuement coming online on 5th level is missing from the table

4. Redeemer of Nine (Page 11)
4.1 Extra Imbuement coming online on 5th level is missing from the table

[Snowfire]

Avatar of Light wasn't missed, by the way, it's just that I'm currently limiting Wiki to 3.5, which doesn't have Mythic rules.

No worries, makes sense really

2. Immortal (Page 11)
2.1 Never Falter lacks a designation. (Ex?)

Ex, yes. Thanks for catching that.

[NineThePuma]

1. Radiant Armourer (Page 9)
1.1 Enchanced Arnoury progresses Enchanced Armament, a feature that no longer exists.
1.2 Reforged Radiance references Enchanced Armaments.
1.3 Forum table requires updating

The original author is currently AWOL, if his other homebrews are any indication.

I've been considering doing an update of it myself to fit the current incarnation, but a lot of the classes power comes from having billions of enhanced armaments, imo, and I'm not sure how to buff it; my thought process was that the class got 'free' motes invested into any costume effects it had but I worried about the power implications and didn't want to step on any toes by updating a homebrew that wasn't mine.

[Selinia]

A quick note to anyone working on an Iconic - just to clarify, adding on the following conditions:

• Wealth by Level is standard for whatever level the character is at
• Hit points are averaged, not rolled
• Please avoid any Flaws or Traits

Quick update: the Wiki now includes all the material up to and including page 11.

(Avatar of Light wasn't missed, by the way, it's just that I'm currently limiting Wiki to 3.5, which doesn't have Mythic rules)

Here's the list of issues I found while translating all these PrCs to wiki:

1. Radiant Armourer (Page 9)
1.1 Enchanced Arnoury progresses Enchanced Armament, a feature that no longer exists.
1.2 Reforged Radiance references Enchanced Armaments.
1.3 Forum table requires updating

2. Immortal (Page 11)
2.1 Never Falter lacks a designation. (Ex?)

3. Valkyrie (Page 11)
3.1 Enchanced Armaments no longer exist
3.2 Extra Imbuement coming online on 5th level is missing from the table

4. Redeemer of Nine (Page 11)
4.1 Extra Imbuement coming online on 5th level is missing from the table

Valkyria and Redeemer are fixed.