Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice

[Qwertystop]

Typo: Soulbound Companion has a duration measured in levels.

Empathetic Transfer is a bit garbled. Perhaps "Whenever the (Class?) is healed, her companion gains half as much healing." Also, you make a skill check, you don't do a skill check.

Not sure of the mechanics. Feels like you don't gain much but I haven't looked at Companions in a while, and never tried to build someone to use them.

[AbridgingCritic]

Hey there! I have a question about transferring the Illuminations into a more classic D&D 3.5 spellcasting table. I'm not sure if this has been answered in one of the twenty six pages this thread has.

I have a group of fairly new players and they absolutely loved the idea of playing Magical Girls. However, at character creation they got incredibly confused by the Mote Pool and Illumination Crafting. (I personally love how customizeable the Illuminations force your characters to be, but since they are new I really want to bring your system to life in a way they could understand)

• The Champion: possibly turning The Champion's Illuminations table into the Cleric or Sorceror's spellcasting table (possible minus domain)
• The Stargazer: giving this class the Wizard's spellcasting table and spells readied, and maybe replacing their Complex Formula with a specific Metamagic Feat spell slot once a day (such as Heighten Magic)
• The Empath: ... Here's where I'm really having trouble. Since this class is all about juggling Personas I really don't know how to divvy up their magical abilities. Any ideas?

I am aware that the Mote Pool is invested in everything else about this class. So here's some thoughts I've had about using them:

• All motes only can be invested into Armament and Device Effects and Lightforge Feats (?)
• Giving the characters the Awakened Light Feat

I honestly love this homebrew and wish my Players were up to the challenge. But they still have so many questions about the classic D&D 3.5 system they really aren't up to learning an entire new set of rules to play. I think having a spellcasting class would help them ease into it. We were all new to this game once, and I want to share with them how inventive and open-ended this game is. What do you think I should do? I'm open to any recommendations and suggestions?

[AmberVael]

I think converting it into standard spellcasting is probably a bad idea. Its just... why even bother, at that point?

What I would suggest is creating set illuminations, ones that can simply scale in a manner similar to augmenting psionic powers. Essentially, just make illuminations that automatically scale based on your evoker level, rather than being made from a pool of points and components. This way they're a lot simpler to grasp, and once your players have mastered that you can start delving into the rest of the system with only minimal trouble since they'd know the basics.

Spoiler: Examples

Show

Rainbow Spray
Blast
Deals 1d6 damage per evoker level in a 5ft cone, +5ft for every evoker level you possess (10ft cone at level 1, 15ft cone at level 2, etc).


Shining Armor
Surge
You gain a radiant bonus to armor class equal to half your evoker level. This bonus lasts for one round, plus an additional round for every three evoker levels you possess.


Basically, just simplified, prebuilt illuminations. They'll be even easier to understand than spells, and will generally work with same way.

I'd effectively remove the mote pool just by setting every illumination equal to evoker level (and would probably do the same thing with costume effects). This way the rule becomes using two illuminations/costume effects in a round rather than 2*evoker level in motes, which is much easier to grasp.

[Hunter Noventa]

So I've been playing my Stargazer in our current campaign, just got my Intelligent device which is great when paired with Twinned Device and Radiant Armaments, so it can fire my ranged device while I'm holding my Resplendent one to power up my Illuminations.

But I've noticed something a bit...lacking. Surges and Barriers are quite difficult to make good use of at low levels because of the high cost of the duration extending effects. Until 4th level Barriers effectively have a duration of concentration, since you'd have to recast them every round, and Surges are the same, except for the debuffing ones which are severely hampered by having to overcome a save every round.

I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, just an observation that bugs me. I almost feel like the buffing or debuffing components for surges should have a natural duration that can be extended further by the Secondary Component. I suppose it's to balance the fact that you never run out of 'spells', but the Warlock has the same thing going for them, and their debuffs and buffs have an actual duration on thier own.

[sreservoir]

they do run off swift and move actions, respectively. I don't think you usually have much to do with your swifts at low levels to begin with, so at least those shouldn't be too hard to use ...

[Fizban]

Finally got around to learning this properly after it's been up for years. I think I've caught most of the oddities and restrictions now.

Since it doesn't fit anywhere else: I'm surprised your DM is actually letting you pull that off, Hunter. Letting your intelligent ranged weapon have a free full attack every round is, if anything, worse than if an intelligent sword did the same (cause y'know, ranged). Being able to activate their own magic item effects is already more than strong enough.

I agree that barriers are rather underwhelming in barrier-ness, but really when you can recast every round you can't possibly give them free base duration, and that goes double for surges. If you want Warlock duration then you have to take warlock known invocations (down to 12 instead of 13+ and imbuements), warlock dps (down to 1d6/2 instead of 1d6/level bases), and warlock chassis (no Champions for you). Well probably not that far, I'd say Warlocks deserve a buffing if they're even seeing play alongside ToR classes, but anyway. Have you considered less debuffing and more buffing? Protection surges are completely broken as far as I'm concerned (even at 2hp/m it'd be almost stupid good). Get behind the tank, tap it every round, tank never dies.

As for barriers, until you hit 12th any foe can just shove through it in a turn anyway so more duration hardly matters unless you layer them. On the other hand, a 3m Zone/Dominion/Returning lets the entire party teleport around the battlefield, allowing everyone to get behind the tank or regroup for Protection aura surge (I'm not even sure what else Dominion is good for unless you really need antimagic field on two spots far away from each other). While I would like it if duration were cheaper, I'm more concerned by the lack of area scaling and general. The Breath and Anchor secondary components are pretty cool, but require so many motes that by the time you have an effect worth using, you're got nothing left for area. Reverse Gravity with a 20' radius is pretty much worthless and there's never been proper rules for null gravity IIRC. The Rampart area is appropriately the method by which you'd reinforce the weak Barricade foundation with an area of difficult terrain. . . but the difficult terrain effect is another foundation. This means that you have to rely on at least 6m of Breath (vs medium creatures) or 10m of Anchor (if null grav is useful), on top of 4m for Rampart, which leaves you with. . . a 10' square of wall. Or you could spend 1m on Stronghold and get 40' of curved wall as you plop the sphere on them.

While I'm griping about barriers, why does Shadow affect the edge instead of the interior? That makes no sense. Also, if we're gonna admit that you have to recast every round, there should be a clause that if you recast a barrier immediately after it ends, you can extend the duration of an existing barrier. So that people can't just run through your flickering barriers with a readied action.

And some other thoughts. These may have been addressed on the wiki, but the activity page doesn't give any timestamps so for all I know it was Selinia by herself and hasn't been updated in years. And I prefer forum format anyway.

I feel like Stargazers are underpowered. Champions have the same number of illuminations readied and way more dps with devices added on, while a Stargazer can't use multiple blasts unless they try combining Luminous Tinker to get Assault shape with Sharpshooting blasts (the weapon attack is the blast so it should benefit) and Focused Talent. (I suppose they have Lingering blasts [which use fort saves for some reason], but Luminous Tinker cuts both ways). You can say that a Stargazer has access to more options and can build the perfect list to use all actions and motes every round, but a Champion that just spams massive damage and temporary hit points will probably accomplish more, and can do so at massive range with a Bolt device. Maybe Complex Formula really makes that much of a difference, but when there are relatively few unique effects you can bring to the table, there's not much it can actually spring out of nowhere (I'm not really counting Luminous Reservoir since it mostly covers rounding errors unless you use a feat and doesn't directly increase power or options).

I can see why the Prism blast component allows you to change it when readying illuminations, but it definitely highlights how the Primal costume element makes a big deal of people being recognized for their chosen element. . . which they can change at will on 5 minutes notice. Only the PrCs and Companion illuminations make that a real choice. Of course the only reason to use an energy blast is to get the primal bonus, and you can dodge any resistance by adding a Forged component (which also ignores DR because it's not a weapon). A nice rain of hailstones or ice javelins gets the primal bonus without needing a PrC to negate resistance, but you can still change it every 5 minutes.

Vile blasts are stronger than they should be: for comparison, the Violate Spell metamagic only converts half the damage, weapons and attacks don't deal very much, and there aren't really any direct vile damage spells. So I'd cut that down to half.

There's a weird line in the Stance device about how it doesn't make you armed, but counting as armed is already part of the Improved Unarmed Strike feat and forcing you to provoke AoOs on every attack by stripping that out would be silly. Intelligent Device+Stance device.

Aura costumes are very tempting, as an extremely rare (possibly unique in the base rules?) method of exceeding 2m/level for an extended period. All you gotta do is swear off actually having an armor class.

There should be notes regarding if the player can choose the size of the device or if it's automatically set to their size, because Powerful Build is a thing (A goliath with a large mighty device and the oversized imbuement deals 6d6 weapon damage without motes, or 4d8 with a large bolt device, plenty even after level 1). For both, there should really be a statement regarding damage and destruction. Presumably they're indestructible as written since there's otherwise no method of recovery, but you never know when being indestructible will make something absurd.

Devices in general are really strong. It's nice that they have nifty effects since you're limited to the device table rather than all printed weapons, and it makes the choices matter, but those are feat/class ability/magic item tier effects. Despite not looking like it at first due to the smooth 2m/level, illuminators are still pretty frontloaded. Like meldshapers, though not as bad. At 1st level you get a special weapon ability from your device and a special ability from your imbuement, which both function without mote investment, as well as your 4+ illuminations and 2m per turn.

[Hunter Noventa]

Finally got around to learning this properly after it's been up for years. I think I've caught most of the oddities and restrictions now.

Since it doesn't fit anywhere else: I'm surprised your DM is actually letting you pull that off, Hunter. Letting your intelligent ranged weapon have a free full attack every round is, if anything, worse than if an intelligent sword did the same (cause y'know, ranged). Being able to activate their own magic item effects is already more than strong enough.

Well it hardly has any magic item effects now, but it just made sense for it to be able to attack as well, even if it's only a single shot. It's been helpful so far since our party is a little low on the DPS side of things.

I agree that barriers are rather underwhelming in barrier-ness, but really when you can recast every round you can't possibly give them free base duration, and that goes double for surges. If you want Warlock duration then you have to take warlock known invocations (down to 12 instead of 13+ and imbuements), warlock dps (down to 1d6/2 instead of 1d6/level bases), and warlock chassis (no Champions for you). Well probably not that far, I'd say Warlocks deserve a buffing if they're even seeing play alongside ToR classes, but anyway. Have you considered less debuffing and more buffing? Protection surges are completely broken as far as I'm concerned (even at 2hp/m it'd be almost stupid good). Get behind the tank, tap it every round, tank never dies.

Yeah I rewrote the Warlock class for Pathfinder a while ago with some buffs, I should put it up here. If I were to give barriers a base duration, I'd say you could only have one up at a time, unless you used the duration component to extend it, then you only get the rounds for that if you put up another one.

As for barriers, until you hit 12th any foe can just shove through it in a turn anyway so more duration hardly matters unless you layer them. On the other hand, a 3m Zone/Dominion/Returning lets the entire party teleport around the battlefield, allowing everyone to get behind the tank or regroup for Protection aura surge (I'm not even sure what else Dominion is good for unless you really need antimagic field on two spots far away from each other). While I would like it if duration were cheaper, I'm more concerned by the lack of area scaling and general. The Breath and Anchor secondary components are pretty cool, but require so many motes that by the time you have an effect worth using, you're got nothing left for area. Reverse Gravity with a 20' radius is pretty much worthless and there's never been proper rules for null gravity IIRC. The Rampart area is appropriately the method by which you'd reinforce the weak Barricade foundation with an area of difficult terrain. . . but the difficult terrain effect is another foundation. This means that you have to rely on at least 6m of Breath (vs medium creatures) or 10m of Anchor (if null grav is useful), on top of 4m for Rampart, which leaves you with. . . a 10' square of wall. Or you could spend 1m on Stronghold and get 40' of curved wall as you plop the sphere on them.

Yeah, I've seen a couple I want to use rather badly, but I don't have the motes just yet. I guess Barriers just aren't that effective at low level. I was able to make good use of the one that slows enemies down at least.

I'm definitely looking forward to some of the more esoteric barrier and surge effects, and the ludicrousness I'll get from my prestige class as well.

Though next time I'm going with an Empath, if my Stargazer kicks the bucket somehow. It'll be really hard not to call out 'Persona!' everytime I change aspects.

It's a good system, not perfect by any means, but it's been fun so far.

[Zancloufer]

It is worth mentioning that Champions have no real Ranged AoE Blasts (Beam gets close, but it still starts at the champion) with most of them being Stargazer/Empath only. Not to mention that Volatile is a Stargazer only secondary component. I would argue that Stargazers are better at AoE blasting than Champions are.

Yes Champions come very front loaded and get all of their good things early and can do monstrous single target DPS. Heck you could make a viable front-liner that dumps Str and Con. Wouldn't come online till level 6 though. I would say all the ToR classes excel at doing massive reliable damage with short-lived, but powerful, buffs.

At higher levels the Stargazer has a few exclusive tricks they can do that push their flexibility. As mention anti-gravity barriers are cool, and their ability to make illusions and anti-magic fields is quite nice. I mean yes you have to be pretty much level 17-20, but there is nothing saying that the direction of anchors can't be the middle. Put a bunch of Domions on top of enemies with Very strong gravity aimed at the middle. Pretty sure you could get some RAW, or RAI interpretation on what that would do. While Champions might seem on paper the powerhouse, at higher levels the number of tricks they can't use becomes more and more apparent. Assault and Imbue actually kind of suck at higher levels as you get to the point where you CAN'T add more effects to them anymore.

Also I would mention that the most game-breaking things (and one of the few things that makes any ToR class get to tier 2+) would be the Stargazer6+/Frostfell Maven. Get some crafting feats/skills on that and essentially become an Artificer. Rapid Crafting and the temporary things they can make cam get insane (Makes like 330k GP worth of magic items in 8 hours 0-o).

[sreservoir]

Also I would mention that the most game-breaking things (and one of the few things that makes any ToR class get to tier 2+) would be the Stargazer6+/Frostfell Maven. Get some crafting feats/skills on that and essentially become an Artificer. Rapid Crafting and the temporary things they can make cam get insane (Makes like 330k GP worth of magic items in 8 hours 0-o).

I think the cost-elimination of frostfell artistry (empowerment) is supposed to apply only to things created with craft arms and armor.

Beginning at 5th level, the frostfell maven may infuse items with the very essence of winter when using her frostforged artistry. This functions in all respects as if the maven possessed the Craft Magical Arms and Armor, with the following exceptions. For all purposes involved in the item creation process, treat the frostfell maven as having a caster level equal to her evoker level. Additionally, she may ignore requirements for any spell she is unable to cast. Lastly, the maven may ignore any gold or XP costs the crafting process might incur, and may complete one week of work in only ten minutes of concentration upon her project. Despite these advantages, magical equipment created in this fashion is comprised almost purely of frozen power, and is even less stable than most of a frostfell maven's creations. If she does not infuse a piece of magical weaponry or armor with the gold and XP components to sustain it, the item's enchantments will melt away the moment it is no longer in contact with the maven herself.

of course, that's still broken and stargazer 6 alone is extremely powerful in a certain kind of campaign, but ...

[Fizban]

It is worth mentioning that Champions have no real Ranged AoE Blasts (Beam gets close, but it still starts at the champion) with most of them being Stargazer/Empath only. Not to mention that Volatile is a Stargazer only secondary component. I would argue that Stargazers are better at AoE blasting than Champions are.

At higher levels the Stargazer has a few exclusive tricks they can do that push their flexibility. As mention anti-gravity barriers are cool, and their ability to make illusions and anti-magic fields is quite nice. I mean yes you have to be pretty much level 17-20, but there is nothing saying that the direction of anchors can't be the middle. Put a bunch of Domions on top of enemies with Very strong gravity aimed at the middle. Pretty sure you could get some RAW, or RAI interpretation on what that would do. While Champions might seem on paper the powerhouse, at higher levels the number of tricks they can't use becomes more and more apparent. Assault and Imbue actually kind of suck at higher levels as you get to the point where you CAN'T add more effects to them anymore.

Anything that relies on "exclusive" components is completely negated by the Luminous Tinker feat, which gives not one but three illumination components from any list. If a Champion feels hindered by their lack of AoE, Explosion is only a feat away, as well as Volatile (which isn't exactly reliable), and another component of their choice. The Stargazer has just that, a few semi-exclusive tricks. Blasting is blasting. Under Barriers they have Anchor, Visions, and Silence: since Anchor hardly works and Silence antimagic field is a can of worms, I hope you like illusions (I don't, at least AMF doesn't require multiple layers of anti-metagaming), and all three can be bought with a single feat. Under Surges they have the bizarre Consumption that I'd never use (it lacks even the Contagion clause of striking immediately), and Mirage which I guess is nice? Point is, a Champion need only spend 1, 2, 3 feats at most to steal all the Stargazers "exclusive" tricks, while a Stargazer can't do anything about their low BAB, hp, AC, etc.

I think it really all comes down to how much performance you can get out of Luminous Reservoir and Complex Formula, which my gut tells me is not going to be as much in practice as it is in theory. There are few enough effective battlefield control effects that you ought to be able to carry them all at once anyway so there's no advantage there. Whenever I start thinking about the Stargazer's extra "known" illuminations (bad term choice since it works differently than Champions) all I see are redundancies, having the same effect in pure range/area and then at shorter range/area with bonus effects. I guess there just aren't enough effects that interest me to make having some extra to switch between seem all that good. I'd still favor trying Stargazer first anyway, but all ToR classes are hard to compare to standard DnD for obvious reasons. Comparing to other builds/hombrew I've used/seen IRL, certainly less versatile than Incarnum or Power of Cybernetics and less spike damage than auto-crits and maxed fireballs from a Servant Soul, but it'd still overshadow every other class at the table. But now I'm just grumbling about my old gaming groups.

I have conspicuously not mentioned the Empath so far, since I haven't re-read it yet and expect I'll be rather annoyed.

[AbridgingCritic]

If a Stargazer uses their Shining Schemata to create spell scrolls, what are their limitations in regards to level-specific effects, e.g.: a spell lasting rounds/spellcaster level, healing a certain amount of damage/lvl)
Do they use their manifester level instead of a spellcaster level? Or is their manifester level cut in half for divine and arcane magic?

[sreservoir]

stargazer uses caster level = evoker level for item creation purposes. I have no idea where you'd get the idea of cutting the level in half from.

[Qwertystop]

Regarding the earlier suggestion of a Stargazer making an Anchors barrier pointed towards the middle: I'm not sure that would work. "Towards a point" is not a single consistent direction, not even close to it unless the point is very far away, while the description specifies "a direction". Of course, plenty of other directions would be as effective or more so.

[Zancloufer]

Regarding the earlier suggestion of a Stargazer making an Anchors barrier pointed towards the middle: I'm not sure that would work. "Towards a point" is not a single consistent direction, not even close to it unless the point is very far away, while the description specifies "a direction". Of course, plenty of other directions would be as effective or more so.

What if you used Dominions then? Do all the Dominions have to have gravity pointing in the same direction or could you "Rotate" them to create some sort of box that enemies are trapped in? Discount Force cages anyone?

Also would it make that much of a difference to remove the "readied" illuminations from Stargazers? Having twice as many powers known than Champions on paper sounds good but having to choose which half you know per encounter is rather limiting. I'm not even sure where that came from in the first place tbh. Would make the Stargazers apparent flexibility in power actually applicable.

[AbridgingCritic]

A question about the Empath Lesser Aspect Persona, High Priestess:
For their counterspelling ability, what if they fight a Champion, Stargazer or other Empath and want to counterspell? Since illuminations don't have spell levels, can they expend double the original illumination's mote pool to counterspell?

[AmberVael]

A question about the Empath Lesser Aspect Persona, High Priestess:
For their counterspelling ability, what if they fight a Champion, Stargazer or other Empath and want to counterspell? Since illuminations don't have spell levels, can they expend double the original illumination's mote pool to counterspell?

Illuminations are supernatural abilities, and cannot be counterspelled.

[Hunter Noventa]

What if you used Dominions then? Do all the Dominions have to have gravity pointing in the same direction or could you "Rotate" them to create some sort of box that enemies are trapped in? Discount Force cages anyone?

Also would it make that much of a difference to remove the "readied" illuminations from Stargazers? Having twice as many powers known than Champions on paper sounds good but having to choose which half you know per encounter is rather limiting. I'm not even sure where that came from in the first place tbh. Would make the Stargazers apparent flexibility in power actually applicable.

You could probably do it, but you couldn't just shift right over to the 'Illuminations Known' column, as that would be a bit too many I think. Considering their readied progression is the same as the Champion's known progression, you'd have to stagger it a little bit to bring the total number down, not giving new Illuminations on the levels that they gain a major class feature like Shining Schemata, Complex Formula or Sagacity. That would give you, if you started at 6 Illuminations at level 1, 19 Illuminations plus 3 Complex Formulas.

[jamieth]

If I may offer some historical perspective, at the beginning, Champions had Illumination Readied too; in particular, a level 1 Champion had 4 Illumination known and 1 readied. Compared to that, yes, Stargazers did have amazing flexibility.

[AbridgingCritic]

Question:
From your own personal experiences using this system, whenever you have a Champion, Empath or Stargazer as an NPC in a campaign where they might have to fight your PCs; how do you calculate their Challenge Ratings for XP Division? Since their spellcasting/illumination abilities are so powerful, should I do something like:

• Class lvl + racial ECL bonus + 2? (My best guess)
• OR Class lvl + Racial ECL bonus + a different number?

I'm not that familiar with adjusting NPCs with class levels for CR calculation. I did try and use this formula:

Vorpal Tribble's CR calculator...

#1. Divide creature's average HP by 4.5 to 6.5.
4.5 for 5 HD or lower, 5 for 6-10 HD, 5.5 for 11-15 HD, 6 for 16-20 HD., 6.5 for 20-25 HD.

#2. Add 1 for each five points above 10 its AC is, subtracting 1 for every 5 below.

#3. Add 1 for each special attack (+2 to +5 or more if its got a decent number of spells in its spell-like abilities).

#4. Add 1 for each quality unless you deem it worthy of more. Add 1 for each resistance and 10 points of DR it has, and 2 for each immunity. Subtract 1 for each vulnerability.

#5. Add 1 for every two bonus feats it has.

#6. Divide total by 3. This should be its rough CR

I have a campaign where my PCs are a Champion and a Stargazer, where they will eventually have to confront other Tome of Radiance NPCs. What would you recommend?

(I know I ask a lot about this particular system, but I really want to have all the info I need to let my players use it well.)

[AmberVael]

When asking such a question, its important to note how broken the CR system is. Also disparity in character power. Not only are there wide ranges of power between creatures of identical CR, but there are wide ranges of power between classes, and also specific characters of classes.

In theory, I think an evoker should be a challenge rating equal to its level. However, to a group of low optimization or with low power classes (such as Monk, Fighter, Paladin), an evoker presents a more powerful opponent and might be 1 or 2 higher in terms of CR. By contrast, a group of high optimization or high power (Sorcerers, Clerics, Wizards) may have offensive options and capabilities that overwhelm the lower power evoker and would treat it as a CR or two lower.


If you just want the simple answer though? CR = Class level, done. It won't be any worse than all the other CRs out there.
Obviously add in race modifiers too.

[Fizban]

I'd rate NPC illuminators as high performance monsters with slightly less hp than normal due to not having inflated hit dice, sticking with CR=level. They deal maybe a bit more damage than most monster abilities but still less than an optimized blaster, and can be built with some annoying tricks that might require different tactics to defeat.

[Zancloufer]

You could probably do it, but you couldn't just shift right over to the 'Illuminations Known' column, as that would be a bit too many I think. Considering their readied progression is the same as the Champion's known progression, you'd have to stagger it a little bit to bring the total number down, not giving new Illuminations on the levels that they gain a major class feature like Shining Schemata, Complex Formula or Sagacity. That would give you, if you started at 6 Illuminations at level 1, 19 Illuminations plus 3 Complex Formulas.

It wouldn't be that much higher IMHO. Comparing Psionic classes for example, imagine if the Psion had the same number of powers known, but could only ready as many as a Psychic warrior for some reason. It's not a 100% solid comparison, but there is some similarity between the classes comparisons and Stargazers do seem a little weak compared to Champions. I don't think there is quite enough flexibility in the core illumination component list to really warrant selecting different power per counter most of the time.


On the CR note, SRD/DMG says for class levels, CR (increase) = Class level, if the majority of it's HD/levels are class levels. Now naturally that doesn't always pan out, but with the ToR classes being solid tier 3 it works better than 80% of the CR system. Just be careful about optimization and numbers, especially in the damage output. 4 level 14 Champions might be a "very difficult" encounter for your 4 level 14 PCs, but they have a insanely high chance of TPKing the entire party terribly on the first round. I mean they could theoretically dish out 224d6 damage on a surprise round if you half-way optimize their builds/strategies.

[Zancloufer]

No one's been here for a while. Have been doing some ToR stuff with my D&D group lately and kind of came up with this. Still a WIP with some fluff and names subjec to to change, but in it's current form it's like 99% playable:

Duskreaper

Making a Duskreaper:

Spoiler

Show

Abilities: Intellegecne is arguably their most important ability. It determines the save DCs of her illuminations, as well as the effects of many of her abilities. Also having a role similar to the rouge Dex is almost as important

Role: It's like the Psychic Rouge or Beguiler. So a stealthy combatant/skill monkey.

Races: Members of any race can rise to the role of duskreaper, but they most commonly hail from those known for their short lifespans. None can say for certain why - perhaps their brief lives are simply more prone to the wild and passionate flares that give birth to a champion's brand of radiance.

Alignment: Probably good. Not like any of the ToR classes are inherently evil, though the class plays more or a "Dark Magical Girl" than the others.

Starting Gold: As bard

Starting Age: Most duskreaper come into their power early, perhaps out of the innocence of childhood. When rolling for age, roll as a Bard - but subtract the total from adult age rather than adding it (to a minimum of half an adult’s age). If rules are in place that would reduce the statistics of child characters, the champion is exempt from them.

Class Skill List: The Duskreaper’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Concentration (Con), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (local) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha), and Use Rope (Dex).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) x4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier.

Duskreaper

Hit Dice: d6

Level	Base Attack Bonus	Fort Save	Ref Save	Will Save	Special	Illuminations Known	Imbuements
1st	+0	+0	+2	+2	Radiant Armaments, Merciful, Trapfinding	5	1
2nd	+1	+0	+3	+3	Power of Friendship	5	1
3rd	+2	+1	+3	+3		6	1
4th	+3	+1	+4	+4	Dark Luminosity)	7	1
5th	+3	+1	+4	+4		7	2
6th	+4	+2	+5	+5		8	2
7th	+5	+2	+5	+5	Dark Luminosity	9	2
8th	+6/+1	+2	+6	+6		9	2
9th	+6/+1	+3	+6	+6		10	3
10th	+7/+2	+3	+7	+7	Dark Luminosity	11	3
11th	+8/+3	+3	+7	+7		12	3
12th	+9/+4	+4	+8	+8		12	3
13th	+9/+4	+4	+8	+8	Dark Luminosity	13	4
14th	+10/+5	+4	+9	+9		14	4
15th	+11/+6/+1	+5	+9	+9		14	4
16th	+12/+7/+2	+5	+10	+10	Dark Luminosity	15	4
17th	+12/+7/+2	+5	+10	+10		16	5
18th	+13/+8/+3	+6	+11	+11		16	5
19th	+14/+9/+4	+6	+11	+11	Dark Luminosity	17	5
20th	+15/+10/+5	+6	+12	+12	Eclipsed Apotheosis	18	5

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So the chassis is essentially the rouge. Good Will as that is fairly staple for ToR classes. Imbuements advance at champion rate, and illuminations are about middle progression, somewhere between a champion and stargazer. Intelegence base as I though that worked best for the more "dark/cynical class"

Weapon and Armour Proficiency: A Duskreaper is proficient with all simple weapons, light armour and shields (but not tower shields).

Illuminations (Su): Infused as they are with the power of light, a champion is capable of crafting and calling upon powerful manifestations of radiant energy known as Illuminations. A Duskreaper knows a fixed number of illuminations, and may change any number of her known illuminations freely each time she gains a level in this class. A Duskreaper's illuminations are a fundamental element of her being, and she may evoke any illumination she knows without need for preparation of any sort. A Duskreaper’s Evoker Attribute is Intelligence.

Illuminations are explained more completely in their own section.

Radiant Armaments (Su): Upon awakening to the radiance within her soul, a Duskreaper establishes a bond with a particular weapon and suit of armour – respectively referred to as her Device and her Costume. How a Duskreaper finds the armaments that are hers by right varies widely; she may stumble upon them in a dream, only to awake clutching them in hand, or she might find them in the crater left behind by a falling star, but they always appear within a week of attaining her first level in this class. As she advances in level, the Duskreaper may imbue her armaments with an ever greater number of powerful modifications, as indicated above.

Radiant Armaments and Imbuements are described more completely in their own section.

Merciful (Ex): Whenever a Duskreaper deals damage with an attack or an Illumination, she may choose to deal non-lethal damage instead with no penalty to attack or damage rolls.

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Pretty much copy and pasted the spiel from the other classes. Not like it's that different

Trapfidning (Ex): Like the Rouge (and Beguiler) the Duskreaper may locate traps with a DC higher than 20, find and disarm magical traps and bypass a trap if she beats the Disable Device DC by 10 or more.

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In case you wanted to be like a beguiler or magical rouge. You know, trap finding and stuff.

The Power of Friendship (Ex): A Duskreaper is capable of swaying the alignment of captured foes, as described in the Power of Friendship section below.

In addition, a Duskreaper is remarkably cunning at couching her arguments in rationality and healthy common sense. Appealing to head as much as heart, a Duskreaper may use her Intelligence score, rather than her Charisma score, when making redemption checks. And while such arguments may at times fall of deaf ears, they do not change because of the Duskreaper's motives – a Duskreaper may ignore any increase in DC that would result from the Ulterior Motive penalty.

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"Dark/edgy magical girls" WITHOUT ulterior motives! Insanity! Be nice to not get penalized for having motives you know.

Dark Luminosity: Unlike most magical girls the Duskreaper spends much of her time in the shadows. Whether it by introverted tenancies, no desire for dramatic flare, or just a plain preference for darkness, they understand the shadow around them more than those who cast them. Starting at level 4, and every 3 levels thereafter, the Duskreaper can learn a special ability chosen from the list below, assuming she meets any per-requisites:

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Okay I had no idea how to make a stable dark magical girl. After some talking with others and thinking about their role I went with the "pick an ability" route. There's like 11+ abilities, but only 6 you can pick. Also some have pre-reqs or build your character differently. You know choices and stuff. Also kind of rouge-ish in that you have a bunch of abilities to choose form just like the core rouge.

Cunning Strike (Ex): The Duskreaper's cunning allows her to know where to strike. When attacking with her device and/or an Illumination, she adds her Intelligence mod to her attack roll. If she is a level 10 or higher Duskreaper she also applies her Intelligence to damage as well.

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Who likes being SAD(Single Ability Dependant). I do. If we need Int for skills/powers and dex/con for being you know a rouge we don't have time for strength!

Shadow Strike (Ex): Striking unaware foes can me called many things, but the Duskreaper calls it smart. If she strikes a foe with her device and/or an Illumination, she flanks, her target is flatfooted/denied their Dex to AC or unaware of her presence, any dice involved increase by one (d4 becomes d6 etc) to a maximum of a d12. If she is a level 10 or higher Duskreaper the dice increase by 2 instead. This ability stacks with Hidden Light and Encroaching Night.

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It's sneak attack. Except scales better and doesn't fail against things like golems, skeletons and bonfires. Though the extra damage is directly related to how much you put in.

Hidden Light (Su): Similar to Shadow Strike, except that any illumination and/or weapon Imbuement gain a number of virtual motes equal to one half her Evoker level for that strike. This ability stacks with Shadow Strike and Encroaching Night.

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Sneak attack. Again. Except it works a little different. Combine with other similar abilities for massive damage.

Shadow Dive (Su) [Req 5h level Evoker]: Duskreapers thrive in the shadows and finding those dark spots in something of a speciality. As a move action costing motes equal to evoker level the Duskreaper may teleport up to twice their movement speed to any square with shadows or that provides concealment. If the square in question posses the Returning and/or Journeys barrier effect the Duskreaper adds the range of Returning to her base speed and multiplies it all by the Journeys multiplier.

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Short range teleportation. Also can combine with other sources of short-range teleportation.

Dark Insight (Su) [Req 7th level Evoker]: Some Duskreapers prefer a suboptimal outcome they can predict. At the beginning of each day the Duskreaper can select a number of skills equal to 1/2 her intelligence modifier. Any time she has to make a d20 roll involving one of those skills (even under duress) she may opt to 'take 10' but instead of 10 assume she rolled the number equal to her intelligence modifier, up to a max of 20.

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That skill mastery thing that rouges had. Except you aren't married to the skills you choose. Also reduces RNG in skill checks which a skill based duskreaper should love.

Poltergeist Manoeuvre (Su) [Req 9th level Evoker]: The Duskreaper is able to manipulate objects in a manner similar to the Telekinesis spell. Spending a number of motes equal to their evoker level with a standard action she can imbue a number of items equal to her int mod. Once imbued the objects act as if the Duskreaper had cast telekinesis on them, with a duration and max force as if her evoker level was her caster level. Unlike telekinesis the spell doesn't end when her concentration does.

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Telekenises. At will. Really nice, should work flavour wise, but requires some thinking to get the most out of. Like the class in general.

Pandora's Map (Su) [Req 9th level Evoker]: While much of the Duskreaper's powers involve misdirection, this power is much more literal. Requiring a full round action and motes equal to her evoker level the shifts the people around her. All creatures (Friendly or Hostile), within 5ft per evoker level, must make a reflex save (DC = Illumination DC). Those that fail are rotated 90 degrees relative to the Duskreaper. If there is an obstacle, they are dropped in the closest unoccupied square.

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This is probably the oddest power. Really messes with barrier positions as well.

Dark Puppeteer (Su) [Req 13h level Evoker]: The Duskreaper manipulates the power of shadows to make Suggestions (as the spell) to others. With a standard action and spending a number of motes equal to her evoker level, the Duskreaper can implant a suggestion into a creature by manipulating their senses, with a DC equal to her illumination DC. Unlike the spell this ability is not considered mind-affecting (works against mindless/mind-blanked creatures), though it will still fail if the target is incapable of hearing or seeing.

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At will suggestion. That works against "Mindless" enemies and things with mind-blank. Enemy still needs to be able to perceive you for it to work though.

Twilight Fatality (Ex) [Req 13th level Evoker and Shadow Strike or Hidden Light]: Much like an assassin the Duskreaper can fell her opponents in a single strike. If a Duskreaper studies her victim for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack (See Shadow Strike/Hidden Light) with her device and/or an illumination that successfully deals damage, the attack has the additional effect of possibly of instantly incapacitating them. While studying the victim, the Duskreaper can undertake other actions so long as her attention stays focused on the target and the target does not detect the Duskreaper or recognize the Duskreaper as an enemy. If the victim of such an attack fails a Fortitude save (DC = Illumination DC) against the effect, he instantly drops to 0 HP. If the victim’s saving throw succeeds, the attack is just a normal sneak attack. Once the Duskreaper has completed the 3 rounds of study, he must make the strike within the next 3 rounds.

If the attack is attempted and fails (the victim makes her save) or if the Duskreaper does not launch the attack within 3 rounds of completing the study, 3 new rounds of study are required before she can attempt another death attack.

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It's Death Attack. Except not lethal. Or a death effect. Or fails on things that have blanket immunities. Actually kind of nasty. Like if some unseen magical assassin stalked you for a while and then struck at an unaware enemy dropping them in a single strike. Go assassin power actually assassinating things.

Lingering Dusk [Req 16h level Evoker]: Illusions and misdirection are a staple of Duskreapers and nothing is more embarrassing than having her illusion wink out before it's job is done. Any power or Illumination that effects movement or senses (Journeys, Shadows, Returning, Visions from Barrier components, Mirage, Emptiness and Heartbreak from Surge components) the Dark Puppeteer or Poltergeist Manoeuvre class ability(if she has either) and any SLAs/Su Abilities based off Illusionary, mind-affecting or teleportaion spells, have their duration (Be it rounds/minutes/hours etc) increased by 1/3rd her evoker level (IE: A level 15-17 evoker has her applicable illuminations last 5 more rounds, or a SLA with min/level increases by 5 minutes).

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There are a bunch of high level illuminations that have really nasty illusion or debuff effects, but because of cost have very bad durations. Not anymore. an extra 5 or more rounds on some of those illuminations is REALLY nice on a stealth based character.

Encroaching Night [Req 16h level Evoker]: When stumbling in the dark one must be careful not to loose anything. Using this ability the Duskreaper can attempt to steal power or vitality from others. Any opponent that is vulnerable to a sneak attack (or Shadow Strike) the Duskreaper can attempt a special attack against. As part of a standard attack with her device and or/illumination the Duskreaper attempts to syphon off either health or occult power from their opponents. The target must make a Will or Fort Save (Duskreaper's choice, DC = Illumination DC). If the target fails the Fort save they loose an additional number of HP equal to the Duskreaper's level and the Duskreaper gains health equal to damage dealt by the strike. If the target has to make a Will Save the effect varies in this order:

(1) Prepared or Spontaneous Spell-caster with spells they have prepared/can cast; looses one spell, started with the highest level they can cast, and the Duskreaper gains/adds to a temporary bonus mote pool equal to the level of the spell*2 (1 for 0 level spells).
(2) Character with a Power Point or Mote Reserve, looses a number of PP or motes equal to the Duskreaper's level, and the Duskreaper gains/adds to a temporary bonus mote pool equal to PP/motes lost.
(3) SLAs: Loose one SLA (highest effective level 1st) and the Duskreaper gains/adds to a temporary bonus mote pool equal to the effective spell level. In the case of at will powers (includes the Warlock and other classes with at-will powers) the Duskreaper gains/adds to the mote pool a number of motes equal to the effective spell-casting level of the user.

If the target has no spells, power points, mote reserve, or SLAs there ability simply fizzles and fails.
The temporary mote pool lasts the entire encounter, though the Duskreaper can only use up to her evoker level worth of motes from the poll each round. This ability stacks with the Shadow Stike and Hidden Light abilities.

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Drain magic. Or life. Pretty much the carnage barrier and/or a recharge able luminous reserve. Or spell stealing.

Shadow Hand (Ex): Instead of choosing a new power the Duskreaper may channel the martial power of darkness. She may take the Martial Study or Martial Stance Feat (though she is limited to Shadow Hand Manoeuvres/Stances) take a martial feat that has a prerequisite of a Shadow Hand Manoeuvre/Stance, or if she has Martial Adept levels that has access to the Shadow Hand list, she can increase her Martial Adept level by 2 (up to HD max) and gain extra manoeuvres known/readied and stances known as if she had gained two level in that class.

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Shadow Hand is kind of magical and/or rouge like right? Also makes for entering the Valerie PrC a lot easier, if you want to go that route. Not sure how that would work, but we have the Magical Idol class so there area crazier ideas already.

Eclipsed Apotheosis (Ex): The barrier between the Duskreaper and the radiant power she channels has all but dissolved. She is likely a very different person from the one who first set foot on her long adventure, but her blazing spirit has preserved against all odds in the darkness of the world, beaming forth with a fury that angels and demons might envy. At 20th level, a stargazer forevermore becomes a Native Outsider with one alignment subtype of her choice and an Augmented subtype pertaining to her previous type, with all the traits that implies. Further, she can no longer be aged by any means mundane or magical, and will never die of old age.

In addition the Duskreaper may supplement her weakness with her natural cunning. She chooses one of her physical stats (Strength, Dexterity or Constitution) and thereafter using her intelligence in place of her chosen stat.

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You know there is probably a better capstone that this. Though it's not bad, and I like the wordplay.

Illumination Components known:

Blasts:
Foundation:
Clinging, Flares, Lures, Tremors
Shape:
Cascade, Assault, Imbue, Embraces, Bombs Swarms
Secondary:
Buffered, Dust, Forged, Horizon, Prism, Sharpshooting, Vile, Dissonance, Sundering

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No direct damage and everything requires an attack roll, or for the enemy to trip it. As with much of their list you'll notice access to some more obscure components at the cost of some basic ones. Though Sharpshooting Assaults are probably REALLY nasty, especially with their sneak attack powers later on.

Companions:
Foundation:
Cautious, Focused, Mischievous, Serene
Shape:
All
Secondary:
Amphibious, Attuned, Bonded, Cuddly, Frightful, Harrying, Miniature

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Debuffs, CC and ranged attacks. If you have a flanking buddy one with BFC is probably what a rouge wants

Barriers:
Foundation:
Journeys, Shadows, Shelter, Tempests, Zone
Shape:
All
Secondary:
Pilgrimage, Returning, Ancients, Visions

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Barriers don't seem that good at first, though I was aiming to force a more finesse based play style. Have illusions which was originally a Stargazer Exclusive.

Surges:
Foundation:
Battles, Courage, Isolation, Justice, Might, Mockery, Protection, Resolve
Shape:
All
Secondary:
Amplitude, Awe, Echos, Burdens, Mirage, Emptiness, Promises, Pursuit, Heartbreak

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Overall Surges probably have the more comprehensive list. Again gave them access the the Stargazer exclusive illusions.

Any thoughts about the idea? Something you think I missed? Not sure on what the class would do?

[GypsyDangerZone]

Made this account cause I'd been thinking of using this class and was curious about something.

Does the lure blast allow AoO on its way to you, say like you made a line of adventurers, if you succeed in pulling a target does each character the enemy passes get to attack it, including your self when it ends up next to you, as well as taking the pull damage.

[Morcleon]

Does the lure blast allow AoO on its way to you, say like you made a line of adventurers, if you succeed in pulling a target does each character the enemy passes get to attack it, including your self when it ends up next to you, as well as taking the pull damage.

Targets affected by the lure blast provoke AoOs from any threatened squares it leaves during its pull. If this includes you, you do get an AoO. However, most blasts originate from you, so unless you have >=10' reach, you aren't going to get an AoO.

[Bacchante]

Targets affected by the lure blast provoke AoOs from any threatened squares it leaves during its pull. If this includes you, you do get an AoO. However, most blasts originate from you, so unless you have >=10' reach, you aren't going to get an AoO.

Almost all forms of forced movement in the game don't provoke AoOs unless they say otherwise. If that weren't the case a 5' AoE Tremors blast and Combat Reflexes would be a very effective way of hurting a lot of things at once. I've never let Tremors or Lures movement provoke AoOs.

Apart from that; what is the base damage type of Blasts? Because, as I'm reading this, there's a lot of incentive to not designate it as any particular type because as untyped energy damage it bypasses pretty much every form of resistance. You can't boost the damage with, say, Primal without assigning a damage type but it can also get around all forms of energy immunity or resistance.

[Fizban]

That's because most forms of forced movement themselves specify that the movement they force does not provoke. If the forced movement does not include such a clause then combo works. There are also 1st level spells that can do the same thing (such as PHB Command) so expect the "it's only a 1st level spell" defense.

Indeed, there is no damage type unless you make it a damage type, and you can get by absolutely fine without ever making a typed blast of any sort. ToR does seem to assume you have to compete with higher-op casters though, what with it's baseline being about 2.5 Warlocks, so even if you're building mechanics first rather than fluff first there's still significant incentive for those damage bonuses.

[Norsun]

I didn't see anything limiting the illumination uses per day, curious if I miss read somewhere or can you just spam illuminations

[Reality Glitch]

Now I'm suddenly curious if there will ever be a 5th edition apdaptation of this material

[Qwertystop]

I didn't see anything limiting the illumination uses per day, curious if I miss read somewhere or can you just spam illuminations

It's not per-day. It's a power cap per-ability and an action-economy one per-round, which add up to that if you want to use your full set of actions on them in a round they can't be full-power. Like a 3.5 Warlock with more tuning.