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  1. - Top - End - #1111
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice

    Quote Originally Posted by Norsun View Post
    I didn't see anything limiting the illumination uses per day, curious if I miss read somewhere or can you just spam illuminations
    there's no daily limit, but there's a few per-round limits, and p much all durations are either measured in rounds or take points out of the mote pool.

  2. - Top - End - #1112
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    Default Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice

    Quote Originally Posted by Reality Glitch View Post
    Now I'm suddenly curious if there will ever be a 5th edition apdaptation of this material
    Crunch-wise, unlikely - unless, of course, someone writes one :-)
    Fluff-wise, there's Magical Girl for 5e.
    Tome of Radiance, a Magical Girl sourcebook for 3.5/PF.

    "Jamie" is fine. TH is mostly there to make sure the name would be free on any forum I'd want to register :-)

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  3. - Top - End - #1113
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice

    I haven't looked over all the core stuff yet, but what I've seen so far looks like it partially enables 'Light is Not Good' stories with the presence of stuff that is explicitly about rage, violence and other general nastiness falling under 'Light'. And now I can't help but imagine Miko the Paladin/Monk as one of these Magical Girl classes...

    Oh, and the Power of Friendship thing makes for an amusing way to rollplay befriending people by beating them down. Manages to make Diplomancy even more terrifying... And yes, I meant to type rollplay, because having exploitable crunch for something is helpful to specific crazy campaigns, like ones which have no border between crunch and fluff, where metagaming is part of the setting.

    One criticism I have is the lack of a Dark Magical Girl base class, for the people who want to do characters who hinge on never having the Light stuff in the first place. Kinda screws with immersion and low level play to have no options to be Dark at level one...

    The lack of Exalted compatibility disappoints me. By Exalted, I mean the Book of Exalted Deeds thing of feats that prevent you from doing specific things, with higher-up things having harsher restrictions. They start at taking 'Do no evil' as an absolute requirement, and get more restrictive from there. Like 'No lethal damage, ever!' or 'Never use anything with any monetary value!' It gets crippling to keep up when you start racking up the Vows. It's not an exaggeration to say that someone with all the Vows makes a Paladin look like a shady crack dealer.

  4. - Top - End - #1114
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    Default Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice

    Wow, this is still getting hits...

    I like this, though I'm wondering if some it isn't over the top... Of course the game I'm using the Champion in isn't that best field test.

  5. - Top - End - #1115
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    Default Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice

    Quote Originally Posted by Morphic tide View Post
    One criticism I have is the lack of a Dark Magical Girl base class, for the people who want to do characters who hinge on never having the Light stuff in the first place. Kinda screws with immersion and low level play to have no options to be Dark at level one...

    The lack of Exalted compatibility disappoints me. By Exalted, I mean the Book of Exalted Deeds thing of feats that prevent you from doing specific things, with higher-up things having harsher restrictions. They start at taking 'Do no evil' as an absolute requirement, and get more restrictive from there. Like 'No lethal damage, ever!' or 'Never use anything with any monetary value!' It gets crippling to keep up when you start racking up the Vows. It's not an exaggeration to say that someone with all the Vows makes a Paladin look like a shady crack dealer.
    Dark Magical Girl can be done by a simple refluffing. You don't actually need to treat light as good in any sense, and simply be an evil character.

    The BoED is pretty poorly written, from both a mechanical and morals standpoint, and I'm glad there's no mention of it anywhere in this homebrew.
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  6. - Top - End - #1116
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    Default Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice

    Quote Originally Posted by Morphic tide View Post
    The lack of Exalted compatibility disappoints me. By Exalted, I mean the Book of Exalted Deeds thing of feats that prevent you from doing specific things, with higher-up things having harsher restrictions. They start at taking 'Do no evil' as an absolute requirement, and get more restrictive from there. Like 'No lethal damage, ever!' or 'Never use anything with any monetary value!' It gets crippling to keep up when you start racking up the Vows. It's not an exaggeration to say that someone with all the Vows makes a Paladin look like a shady crack dealer.
    *ahem*

    Child of Light

    That is all.

    It's not anywhere near as restrictive, but as Morcleon points out, restrictions aren't the way to make people want to do good. Give people power that enables them to work within those limits and they'll jump for it quite happily.

    As to darker MGs, just fluff your Illuminations and the like in that sort of direction then chain it out into a fitting PrC. Example: an Evil Champion/Immortal can be terrifyingly fun to roleplay. In the end, due to the thematics of the source material, you're always going to have the slant towards Light and generally by extension Good. Most people attribute those together, just how it goes. But it's not a restriction.
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    Many thanks to Snowfire for collating all these. He's a madman, but he's a helpful madman.
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    Damn you Snowfire. I cried.
    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon777 View Post
    T_T I swear, you just made me cry.
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    Well, here's another for your sig, Snowfire.

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  7. - Top - End - #1117
    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice

    Radiant Speaker


    Requirements
    To become a Radiant Speaker, you must fulfill the following criteria.
    Skills: 8 Truespeak Ranks
    Utterances: Must be able to speak 2nd Level Utterances of the Evolving Mind
    Special: Evoker Level 4

    Class Skill List: Appraise (Int), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge [All skills, taken separately] (Int), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Truespeak (Int), Use Magic Device (Cha)
    Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.

    Radiant Speaker
    Hit Dice: d6

    Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special
    1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Enhanced Weaving, Golden Tongue, Truename Training
    2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 Wordshard (1)
    3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 Radiant Inflections
    4th +2 +1 +1 +4 Bonus Feat
    5th +2 +1 +1 +4 Wordshard (2)
    6th +3 +2 +2 +5 Truespeak Components
    7th +3 +2 +2 +5 Bonus Feat
    8th +4 +2 +2 +6 Wordshard (3)
    9th +4 +3 +3 +6 Radiant Moonlight
    10th +5 +3 +3 +7 Truth in Radiance

    Illuminations: A Radiant Speaker's levels stack with its previous evoking class for the purposes of determining access to illuminations. If they have more than one Evoking Class they must pick one. This decision cannot be changed.

    Utterances: A Radiant Speaker's levels stack with its previous class for the purposes of determining access to Utterances. If they have more than one Truespeaking Class they must pick one. This decision cannot be changed.

    Enhanced Weaving (Ex): A Radiant Speaker gains additional costume elements as if her levels in Radiant Speaker were levels in her previous evoking class or Empath, whichever is more advantageous.

    Golden Tongue (Su): At first level a Radiant Speaker gains a special costume effect that is always active and gained in addition to all others.

    Effect: The Radiant Speaker may add their Evoker Stat as an Competence Bonus on Truespeak checks. They may also apply their Merciful class feature to any Utterances.

    Essence Boost: For every 2m invested in this effect the Radiant Speaker gains a +1 Radiant bonus to Truespeak checks, a +1 Radiant Bonus to Diplomacy checks and a -2 Radiant Penalty to Bluff checks.

    Cartridge Boost: When a Cartridge is expended to fuel this effect, the Radiant Speaker may Take 10 on all Truespeak checks for a number of rounds equal to their Evoker Stat Modifier.

    Truename Training (Ex): At first level, the Radiant Speaker gains the benefit of the Truename Training feat. If they already have this feat, they gain Skill Focus (Truespeak) instead. If they have both then this takes no effect.

    Wordshards (Su): Starting at second level, the Radiant Speaker may craft a Wordshard. This is a personalized ritual taking five minutes per Shard. Each Shard is a collection of Radiant Energy fortified with Truespeak and containing a single Utterance. This Shard may be loaded and used in the same way as a Cartridge, but with a different effect; when triggered, the Utterance within it activates. Only Evolving Mind and Crafted Tool Utterances may be used, and the Truespeak check is made as part of creating it; including any Inflection feat bonuses. Remaking a used Wordshard doesn't require a new check, but making one with an entirely new Utterance, or different Inflections, does. Finally, it may be used to trigger the Golden Tongue Cartridge Boost as if it were a normal Cartridge instead.

    They gain one additional Wordshard at fifth and eigth level.

    Radiant Inflections (Su): At level three, the Radiant Speaker may select one Secondary Illumination Component they have access to per two levels of Radiant Speaker. This may now be used as if it were an Inflection feat, with an added DC equal to the mote cost; which must also be expended in the process of speaking it. Evolving Mind Utterances may have Blast (or Companion) and Surge components added. Crafted Tool may only benefit from Blast and Surge, and only the Perfected Map may use Barrier components.

    The components chosen may be changed when the Speaker levels up.

    Bonus Feat: At fourth and seventh level the Radiant Speaker gains a single bonus feat. This may be any [Inflection], [Lightforge] or [Radiant] feat.

    Truespeak Components (Su): At sixth level, the Radiant Speaker gains the ability to apply Inflections to her Illuminations. The DC for the check is [20 + Mote Cost + Inflection Cost]. They may only apply a single Inflection with this ability per three levels of Radiant Speaker.

    Radiant Moonlight (Su): At ninth level, the Speaker gains a singular mask. If they are an Empath, they immediately gain the Moon Persona on top of their existing Persona. Otherwise, as a free action the Radiant Speaker may don the mantle of the Moon by expending a number of motes equal to their Evoker Level. They do not gain the usual bonuses of this ability. However, they do gain the aura of the Moon:

    Within a radius of [5 * evoker stat modifier] feet, for the purposes of skills, spells, and abilities, all words spoken by individuals within this radius are considered ‘true’ – Sense Motive checks will reveal only honesty, and lie-discerning magic will pass over such utterances without a trace. This does not inflict any form of compulsion upon listeners, nor even compel them to believe in the factual truth of a statement, but they will always view claims by creatures within the aura to be of utmost honesty. This grants a +5 circumstance bonus on all Truespeak checks made by any creatures in the area.

    Truth in Radiance (Su): At the height of their power, a Radiant Speaker may blend Truespeak and Radiant power effortlessly. They may use any secondary component they know with their Radiant Inflection ability. Additionally, they may add an actual Utterance as a carrier to their Illuminations. The effect will apply to anything that the Illumination affects; however, it is cast on the Illumination itself. Use the Mote Cost as the CR or CL of the effect, and consider the location Magical for the purposes of Barriers and the Perfected Map. Additionally, any Inflection feats may apply to both the Utterance and Illumination.

    This ability only functions while wearing the mask of the Moon.

    ---

    A Prestige Class I built for a game so it could be used with the Book of Words Truenamer fix. Still needs fluff. Also happy to accept any suggestions for balance improvements.
    Befriend the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

  8. - Top - End - #1118
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    Qwertystop's Avatar

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    Default Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice

    ...Huh. First time I've seen a PrC for theurging classes from two different editions.

    (ToR is a Pathfinder book, right? And BoW is 3.5?)
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."
    My Homebrew

  9. - Top - End - #1119
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice

    Quote Originally Posted by Qwertystop View Post
    ...Huh. First time I've seen a PrC for theurging classes from two different editions.

    (ToR is a Pathfinder book, right? And BoW is 3.5?)
    This is homebrew. There is no physical, buyable copy of it. And I`m rather sure that ToR here is made for 3.5, not PF, although conversion between the two is usually easy. Also, PF is not officially an edition of D&D, it`s legally a separate game that ¨happens¨ to be so close to 3.5 that only the open game licence lets it avoid copyright. Said licence is also responsiple for the vast fields of 3rd party products in 3.5, which largely serve as free marketing for the first party stuff and a way to bloat various numbers in the TTRPG industry.

    As for the class, it`s a fun thing to look at, probably a monster to play. Mixing metamagic-type things can get out of hand fast, and a nigh infinitely reusable Utterance that only needs the DC passed once can make Truenamer... troublesome. Because you can pop a large number of buffs to make a massively boosted Utterance that then can be reused a lot more often than it should. Good catch with the Competence bonus, otherwise there`d be the magic item boost on top of how high you can pump the Evoker stat, which will probably be tied to Truespeach as much as possible, optimally being Intelligence.

  10. - Top - End - #1120
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice

    Can any one share a link for ever present evoker class so we can add our mix and derivatives to it
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Shadow View Post
    Threads are like cats. They go where they want, and never listen to what you want them to do.


  11. - Top - End - #1121
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice

    Quote Originally Posted by khadgar567 View Post
    Can any one share a link for ever present evoker class so we can add our mix and derivatives to it
    I thought that Evoker is just a thing this thread uses. At any rate, there's an index of most of the ToR classes on the first page. It seems to be mostly based on Incarnum, in terms of mechanics.

  12. - Top - End - #1122
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice

    Quote Originally Posted by khadgar567 View Post
    Can any one share a link for ever present evoker class so we can add our mix and derivatives to it
    Quote Originally Posted by Morphic tide View Post
    I thought that Evoker is just a thing this thread uses. At any rate, there's an index of most of the ToR classes on the first page. It seems to be mostly based on Incarnum, in terms of mechanics.
    Yep, Evoker is just a general term for "class utilising illuminations-based magic system, as detailed in this thread"~
    Tome of Radiance, a Magical Girl sourcebook for 3.5/PF.

    "Jamie" is fine. TH is mostly there to make sure the name would be free on any forum I'd want to register :-)

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  13. - Top - End - #1123
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice

    Quote Originally Posted by Morphic tide View Post
    As for the class, it`s a fun thing to look at, probably a monster to play. Mixing metamagic-type things can get out of hand fast, and a nigh infinitely reusable Utterance that only needs the DC passed once can make Truenamer... troublesome. Because you can pop a large number of buffs to make a massively boosted Utterance that then can be reused a lot more often than it should. Good catch with the Competence bonus, otherwise there`d be the magic item boost on top of how high you can pump the Evoker stat, which will probably be tied to Truespeach as much as possible, optimally being Intelligence.
    The main thing is that each of the Wordshards can only be used once per encounter; but I see your point there. I built this to play in a game myself with DM permission and I never actually thought of that.

    The main thing I used a lot was the Inflection to increase duration to make my Surges and Barriers last longer.
    Befriend the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

  14. - Top - End - #1124
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice

    Not sure if I am even allowed to post in this thread anymore or not... but needed to ask... are there any rules for this system that enable the use of Union Devices. Since this is clearly modeled after Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha, I would assume there are, but saw no mention of it...

  15. - Top - End - #1125
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice

    Quote Originally Posted by DalkonCledwin View Post
    Not sure if I am even allowed to post in this thread anymore or not... but needed to ask... are there any rules for this system that enable the use of Union Devices. Since this is clearly modeled after Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha, I would assume there are, but saw no mention of it...
    This is almost certainly a necro, but only the person to necro gets hit with infraction, so I will respond freely. First, a quick Wiki check says that you are slightly wrong on the name. It's either Union-Type Device or Unison Device. Second, there's a wiki you can look at for this. Third, not that I know of.

    Looking at what Unison Devices do, it looks like they boost energy efficiency and maximum output at the cost of limited candidate pools, with the actual Device being a separate creature from the "lord" and able to both survive the death of their "lord" and bond with a new "lord." They also apparently need calibration for specific users, can take over the shared body during "unison," have nasty side effects with "unison" and cause visible changes to the barrier jacket/knight armor.

    These facts don't really fit with how Radiant Armaments work. They don't improve Illuminations in any meaningful way, which is the most basic point of Nanoha Devices. Improving magic use. And in the Nanoha series, the Costume equivalent is a spell, not a permanent item.

    Given all of this, I think that the setup behind Unison Devices would be best done as part of a directly Nanoha compliant base class that acts mostly as an Artificer equivalent in respect to the other Evoker classes, creating permanent Devices and Cartridges that anyone can use, with Imbuements that allow for reducing Mote costs and using off-list Illuminations, with their Radiant Armaments forcing them to go for an Aura rather than a proper Costume and getting Illuminations that can create Costumes that act as a serious Mote sink if they don't dump Imbuements into reducing the cost.

    In this setup, Unison Devices would probably be the result of a chain of Imbuments, costing a crazy amount to create due to said chain of Imbuements and rules for "calibration" to get them to be bonded to a particular Evoker, replacing said Evoker's normal Radiant Armaments feature(s) with a variant feature that integrates the Unison Device and provides the rules for use of the Unison Device.

    Of course, I don't actually know enough about this system or its balance points to do it myself.

  16. - Top - End - #1126
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice

    I think I have something that will work, actually. At least it will if I do this using the Pathfinder system... Alternate Multiclass for the Summoner Class, with the Synthesist Archetype and a bit of reflavoring.

  17. - Top - End - #1127
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    Qwertystop's Avatar

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    Default Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice

    Quote Originally Posted by DalkonCledwin View Post
    Not sure if I am even allowed to post in this thread anymore or not... but needed to ask... are there any rules for this system that enable the use of Union Devices. Since this is clearly modeled after Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha, I would assume there are, but saw no mention of it...
    Intelligent Device gets you the mind. Use Companion illuminations for the fairy-size body, if you want it to be active in combat and not just flavor. If you want the body to be more useful in combat, take Radiant Arsenal and Twinned Device, where your second Device is Harmonious. You're certainly not going to be able to get them as fully-active as yourself at the same time, though - that was an intentional balance point in writing Companion Illuminations, and the entire Tome, that the per-round action economy is a critical resource which you cannot cheat. Pick buffs for your Intelligent Device's Intelligent Item powers, and use those plus cartridges for Unison In. Any other limited-use buffs also work well for reserving for "when Unisoned", since that situation already implies things are more serious.
    Last edited by Qwertystop; 2017-06-05 at 10:57 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."
    My Homebrew

  18. - Top - End - #1128
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice

    The problem with doing it using Companion Illuminations, is that I wanted to have the character in question be capable of utilizing Blast Illuminations, similar to how Hayate Yagami is able to use a large assortment of blasts, but needs a Unison Device to help her aim...

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    Default Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice

    Quote Originally Posted by DalkonCledwin View Post
    The problem with doing it using Companion Illuminations, is that I wanted to have the character in question be capable of utilizing Blast Illuminations, similar to how Hayate Yagami is able to use a large assortment of blasts, but needs a Unison Device to help her aim...
    Refluffing is your friend here. The Companion illumination is necessary for the "Unison Device" to act separately, unless perhaps you find an appropriate Intelligent Item ability. So just make it clear that its assistance, or at least presence, is necessary for use of other Illuminations.

    You're not going to be able to get a perfect adaptation of anything cross-setting or from a non-rules-system world to one with well-defined written rules. You're especially not going to be able to get Hayate, who is frankly ridiculous on every level at once, in a game that even pretends at balance.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."
    My Homebrew

  20. - Top - End - #1130
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    Default Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice

    Quote Originally Posted by Qwertystop View Post
    Refluffing is your friend here. The Companion illumination is necessary for the "Unison Device" to act separately, unless perhaps you find an appropriate Intelligent Item ability. So just make it clear that its assistance, or at least presence, is necessary for use of other Illuminations.

    You're not going to be able to get a perfect adaptation of anything cross-setting or from a non-rules-system world to one with well-defined written rules. You're especially not going to be able to get Hayate, who is frankly ridiculous on every level at once, in a game that even pretends at balance.
    So, if I am understanding what you are saying here... by refluffing, I can make it so that the character has a single Companion Illumination that represents the Unison Device, and through use of that Companion Illumination, and possibly a few other things, the character can still make use of Blast Illuminations, but only when the Companion Illumination is present?

    Am I understanding what you are saying correctly?

    Also, sorry for the late reply, was thinking over what you had said, trying to figure out if I understood it properly.
    Last edited by DalkonCledwin; 2017-06-11 at 08:37 PM.

  21. - Top - End - #1131
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    Default Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice

    Quote Originally Posted by DalkonCledwin View Post
    So, if I am understanding what you are saying here... by refluffing, I can make it so that the character has a single Companion Illumination that represents the Unison Device, and through use of that Companion Illumination, and possibly a few other things, the character can still make use of Blast Illuminations, but only when the Companion Illumination is present?

    Am I understanding what you are saying correctly?

    Also, sorry for the late reply, was thinking over what you had said, trying to figure out if I understood it properly.
    No. I'm saying that having a Companion active requires actions so you won't be able to have the main character and the Unison Device act at the same time. So you could say that, whenever you're not using the Companion Illumination, the Companion is, dunno, sitting decoratively on your shoulder or something. Talk it out with the DM.

    Honestly? A better route would be to have a second player play the Unison Device. They're intelligent, they're independent beings. Then just houserule something based on Fusion but tweaked to be more relevant to Evokers, give it to the Unsion Device.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."
    My Homebrew

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    Default Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice

    Radiance Domain

    Your heart shines with an inner light, that of your Goddess' hopes and dreams. You do not gain bonus spells but radiant Illuminations.

    Powers granted

    Merciful (Ex)
    You gain the Merciful ability as a 1st level Champion, meaning that when you deal damage with an attack, spell--even summons--or an Illumination, you may choose to deal non-lethal damage instead with no penalty to attack or damage rolls.

    Flash Burst (Su)
    As a swift action, you gain temporary motes equal to your cleric level for 1 round, and they can be invested as part of this action, or used for Illuminations. Evoking an Illumination takes the usual actions except for Surges, which can be evoked with a Move action, not a Swift.

    You can use this ability a number of rounds per day equal to your cleric level. These rounds do not need to be consecutive, and cost a Swift action each round to activate the ability. If maintaining an Illumination in successive rounds, the Illumination does not end between two uses--so enemies can't just ignore your Barriers by readying an action to pass between the beginning of your round and the evoking of the Barrier again. Companions follow the normal rules, and thus have unlimited duration, until dismissed or destroyed. DC is equal to [10 + half your caster level + Charisma modifier]


    Radiant Armament's Reflection (Su)
    At level 8, you gain 1 imbuement. When you prepare your Clerical spells, you can designate said imbuement to 1 held armor or weapon. Motes can be invested in it as usual. The imbuement only works when you equip the armor or wield the weapon, and whenever you prepare your Clerical spells again, you can redo your choice, even if the item is no longer in your possession.


    Domain Spells: None. Starting with level 1, you can craft Illuminations as if you are a Champion of your cleric level, with the same maximum mote costs, and number Known and Readied. Every time you gain a permanent Cleric level, you can recraft these Illuminations. You do not gain a Mote Pool but can use the motes granted by Flash Burst as if they were in one. If you do gain or have an actual Mote Pool, such as by taking levels in an Evoker class, you can use Flash Burst's temporary motes as if they were part of the Mote Pool--they still do not refresh and are only usable for 1 round.

    Spoiler
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    This is based on Pathfinder's domains. I am debating on whether or not Companions should only last 1 round--and follow the same persisting as with Barriers if done in successive rounds to allow for Greater Attacks. The "Surges take more than a Swift Action" is because Clerics can still cast spells or attack, but regular Evokers can do that too. Still, better to err on the side of caution, as Cleric spells might be a lot stronger than Illuminations.


    Please let me know what you think. ♥
    Last edited by Scryangi; 2019-02-12 at 02:18 PM.

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    I'm not an expert, but I see a couple of issues here...

    1. 8th level ability, I think, doesn't really work - at least the "imbue motes" part - without actual Eviker levels, since Radiance Cleric must spend a Swift each round to access the Mote pool, so can never use that Swift action to Imbue.

    2. I'm... not sure a full-CL Evoking, usable infinite number of times per day, is anything near the power level of the 1st level domain ability... at its worst, a Blast Illumination is a "Fireball at will, with no CL limit". And while actual high-level spells are certainly stronger, gicing a Cleric access to dishing that much damage without ever using its actual resources is flat out broken.

    If I might offer a suggestion, remove the mote pool entirely and make every use of Crafted Illumination cost a use of Channel Energy?
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    Default Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice

    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    I'm not an expert, but I see a couple of issues here...

    1. 8th level ability, I think, doesn't really work - at least the "imbue motes" part - without actual Eviker levels, since Radiance Cleric must spend a Swift each round to access the Mote pool, so can never use that Swift action to Imbue.

    2. I'm... not sure a full-CL Evoking, usable infinite number of times per day, is anything near the power level of the 1st level domain ability... at its worst, a Blast Illumination is a "Fireball at will, with no CL limit". And while actual high-level spells are certainly stronger, gicing a Cleric access to dishing that much damage without ever using its actual resources is flat out broken.

    If I might offer a suggestion, remove the mote pool entirely and make every use of Crafted Illumination cost a use of Channel Energy?
    Huh? But I foresaw all these things. You can invest motes into the imbuement as part of the same swift action as gaining the motes. I demoted Surges to move and standard actions so that it wouldn't be a free action to use them, whereas imbueing technically is here. I only gave half the normal mote pool--motes equal to your level thus--so you had to chose between having an energized imbuement or an illumination. And it can't be used infinitely, only 1/day/level. So you lose access to 9 domain spells, but do gain a permanent imbuement.

    Reduce the number of available illuminations? Is 1/day/level still too much?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scryangi View Post
    Huh? But I foresaw all these things. You can invest motes into the imbuement as part of the same swift action as gaining the motes. I demoted Surges to move and standard actions so that it wouldn't be a free action to use them, whereas imbueing technically is here. I only gave half the normal mote pool--motes equal to your level thus--so you had to chose between having an energized imbuement or an illumination. And it can't be used infinitely, only 1/day/level. So you lose access to 9 domain spells, but do gain a permanent imbuement.

    Reduce the number of available illuminations? Is 1/day/level still too much?
    Oh, sorry, missed the sentence about it being useful "a number of rounds per day equal to level" :blush: My mistake. With that limitation, it's probably fine.

    Still not seeing anything saying you can Imbue as the part of gaining the motes. Radiant Armament's Reflection says "Motes can be invested in it as usual." Investing motes as usual costs a Swift action. Right, it's in the Flash Burst's description. I retract my questions, then :-)

    A couple more things: which stat does Cleric use for the Illuminations' save DC? Cleric's usual Wisdom, or Champion's usual Charisma?

    (Also, it's a nitpick, but "
    except for Surges, which can be evoked with a Move or Standard action, not a Swift. " is probably redundant, since you can always trade a Standart for a Move; also, some Components allow, frex, Blasts to be used as things other than Standart actions, so I'd just leave the point about Surges being Move actions for the Radiant Cleric, and remove the remainder about Barriers, Blasts and Companions)
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    Default Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice

    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post

    A couple more things: which stat does Cleric use for the Illuminations' save DC? Cleric's usual Wisdom, or Champion's usual Charisma?

    (Also, it's a nitpick, but "[/COLOR]except for Surges, which can be evoked with a Move or Standard action, not a Swift. " is probably redundant, since you can always trade a Standart for a Move; also, some Components allow, frex, Blasts to be used as things other than Standart actions, so I'd just leave the point about Surges being Move actions for the Radiant Cleric, and remove the remainder about Barriers, Blasts and Companions)
    DC, I would say Charisma, just so the cleric isn't single attribute dependent, and to give synergy with Turn Undead or Channel Energy depending on the edition of the game. Melee clerics can use Assault Blast or barriers and buffing surges without the need for saves, caster clerics...Ah, maybe they would need the buff in 3.5 and it should be Wisdom. What do you think?

    I should remove the part about Surges being able to be used as standard actions, but mostly tried to be as inclusive as I could, so people new to the homebrew wouldn't have to look things up. And without mentioning Companions' duration, it wouldn't be clear if companions would vanish after 1 round, or if you really can just activate this ability once in the morning yet have a companion all day long--which you can so at the least you get a free mount.

    *edit* So what I should do is make sure the 1/day/level limit is on top so the reader reads this with that in mind. I modeled it after the Pathfinder SRD but that might be a big mistake here. The design philosophy is that similar to Channel Energy, a few times per day the cleric can channel radiant energy from her goddess. She does not have her own radiant energy, for if she was, she would be an Evoker, which she isn't and that's why she doesn't have a Mote Pool, not even an empty one. She can have the right channeling patterns in her mind/spirit/whatever, and thus can have Illuminations readied, but she lacks the ignited heart of a real evoker character.

    *edited my edit* Actually it already was on top. Do you think it's unclear?
    Last edited by Scryangi; 2019-02-12 at 04:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scryangi View Post
    DC, I would say Charisma, just so the cleric isn't single attribute dependent, and to give synergy with Turn Undead or Channel Energy depending on the edition of the game. Melee clerics can use Assault Blast or barriers and buffing surges without the need for saves, caster clerics...Ah, maybe they would need the buff in 3.5 and it should be Wisdom. What do you think?

    I should remove the part about Surges being able to be used as standard actions, but mostly tried to be as inclusive as I could, so people new to the homebrew wouldn't have to look things up. And without mentioning Companions' duration, it wouldn't be clear if companions would vanish after 1 round, or if you really can just activate this ability once in the morning yet have a companion all day long--which you can so at the least you get a free mount.

    *edit* So what I should do is make sure the 1/day/level limit is on top so the reader reads this with that in mind. I modeled it after the Pathfinder SRD but that might be a big mistake here. The design philosophy is that similar to Channel Energy, a few times per day the cleric can channel radiant energy from her goddess. She does not have her own radiant energy, for if she was, she would be an Evoker, which she isn't and that's why she doesn't have a Mote Pool, not even an empty one. She can have the right channeling patterns in her mind/spirit/whatever, and thus can have Illuminations readied, but she lacks the ignited heart of a real evoker character.

    *edited my edit* Actually it already was on top. Do you think it's unclear?
    I'd say insert a paragrapth break in front of "This ability can be used for a number of rounds...", would make it stand out more.

    As for Evoker stat, I think Cha would fit a cleric just fine, matching the Channel Enegry; it just needs to be explicitely stated.
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    Default Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice

    When I started reading the Tome of Radiance last week, I couldn't figure out what the point was behind Stargazer. There had to be one, because it had years of development in it, but I couldn't find it. I had made as test character a lv 5 Champion, a paladinesque character that walks into the story as a wandering hero ready to go wherever her goddess wishes, and was ready for anything. And I found out she really was ready for everything. She was intending to go Radiant Armourer and couldn't find any reason to go Stargazer. She had a bow, and thus DPS through Assault Blast and full attacks. She had a lance, thus melee, reach, and maybe even a shield bonus.

    As Illuminations she took Assault Blast, so she had damage both ranged and melee. She had a heal, and she had a beam attack. And that was when she ran out of things she needed and started going for "just in case" things already. Thus 1 Assault that ignored hardness.

    She wanted something that would protect her from rain and sandstorms, and didn't really find anything, so eventually settled on a Breath Zone so she could try blowing the rain away. Her DM said that thing was ridiculous but she insisted since at least it was something she didn't have a way to do yet and you never know when you need wind. She found uses by blowing a hole in the sand to hide during sandstorms and cover the hole with a canvas, or blow away gas. And after that, she still had a slot open for a new Illumination. She made a Lure, which she didn't really see a use for but you never know.

    So then I looked back at the Stargazer and wondered just what its point was. There aren't so many unique Illuminations as to be warrant switching them out. My Champion already had plenty of on demand versatility through switching out imbuements and with Twinned Device and its derivatives. She had more motes than it, due to her limit boosts and cartridges, and thanks to those she could take Focused Talent: Blasts and have more DPS too. The exclusive Components like Volatile were rarely needed since battles tend to not have clumps of enemies, but if she really needed it there was Luminous Tinker. Yet, I was convinced there had to be a use for Stargazer. It wasn't skill monkey, since that was Empath, so eventually I concluded these things:

    -Stargazers are meant to combine Complex Formula with an Implement device.
    -Use Aura costume and use a shield or even ask for Blazing Aegis.
    -Should use her Known but not Readied illuminations for a collection of companions such as mounts and spares in case 1 is destroyed.
    -Could have a Surge that suppresses the paralyzed condition and with 5 minutes of work, ready that one while paralyzed and only take it out when needed (it's a mental action :P)
    -Could wear a Heavy costume and shield to give her AC to her companions.


    Any thoughts or anecdotes on why Stargazers are so unique?

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    Oh wow, this is still going strong... Sorry fangirling. In that case I may have to make another attempt to use.
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    Default Re: Tome of Radiance: Mastering the Power of Love and Justice

    Quote Originally Posted by Scryangi View Post
    So then I looked back at the Stargazer and wondered just what its point was. There aren't so many unique Illuminations as to be warrant switching them out. My Champion already had plenty of on demand versatility through switching out imbuements and with Twinned Device and its derivatives. She had more motes than it, due to her limit boosts and cartridges, and thanks to those she could take Focused Talent: Blasts and have more DPS too. The exclusive Components like Volatile were rarely needed since battles tend to not have clumps of enemies, but if she really needed it there was Luminous Tinker. Yet, I was convinced there had to be a use for Stargazer. It wasn't skill monkey, since that was Empath, so eventually I concluded these things:

    -Stargazers are meant to combine Complex Formula with an Implement device.
    -Use Aura costume and use a shield or even ask for Blazing Aegis.
    -Should use her Known but not Readied illuminations for a collection of companions such as mounts and spares in case 1 is destroyed.
    -Could have a Surge that suppresses the paralyzed condition and with 5 minutes of work, ready that one while paralyzed and only take it out when needed (it's a mental action :P)
    -Could wear a Heavy costume and shield to give her AC to her companions.

    Any thoughts or anecdotes on why Stargazers are so unique?
    First of all, a few notes:

    • It's actually pretty hard to use Focused Talent (Blasts). It doesn't increase the mote limit on your individual illuminations, so you'd need two standard actions. The other two are easier to use by using readied actions to trade down from standard, but if you want to use two blasts you're going to have to get your other standard action elsewhere.
    • Specifics of your campaigns aside, Fireball is p iconic and that's the shape Champion lacks... bu yes, Luminous Tinker will take care of that
    • Stargazers are probably the worst candidate for using Implement/Harmonious devices, since they're the only ones actually in a position to use all their actions on illuminations, and, conversely, using a full-round on a blast and then a swift on a surge leaves half the mote pool with nothing to do. It can work with investment in Primal, but Champion is a better choice for that niche. It's more useful for an Empath to save motes on a persona change.
    • (Harmonious sort of a has a niche in letting you Complex Formula a known-but-not-readied companion out and still do greater attacks, but the action economy is still not playing to the Stargazer's precious few strengths.)


    Anyway, this conversation has indeed come up before, and personally I think Stargazers have gotten the short end of the stick...

    Some changes occurred since when the Stargazer (then Zodiac) was designed which have eroded at its niche, I suppose.

    The obvious one is that the Empath was written after the Stargazer, and pretty much took over both skills and having a stock of utility illuminations, due to the persona-switching mechanic making all utility illuminations available pretty much whenever, while carrying enough in innate+one persona to have no particular trouble without switching. This is the big issue, I think: Empath just covers too much ground as simultaneously the skillmonkey, utility belt, and optionally some selection of trapmonkey, healer, FWOBF (except with just slightly fewer bonus feats, from Changing Heart), transportation, and some other stuff, while retaining all the general evoker stuff. And while the Champion carves out a niche with unique access to cartridge effects, the Stargazer's defining features are basically "illuminations, but more", which doesn't feel much like a feature...

    A second point of note is that at one point, the champion also had an "illuminations readied" progression of level/3+1, which is tight enough to actually force a few wasted actions at low levels, whereas the current progression of just as many readied as the stargazer only means you can't pack in as much utility, and there's not much of that to begin with. Also, the Limit Boost ability was formerly linked to expending cartridges, so the Champion couldn't have all relevant imbuements charged for basically an entire encounter and separately burn cartridges for effect; you'd get one charged per round, sustaining an extra at 8th and 16th, and until 12th level it'd be the one corresponding to the cartridge you used.

    Meanwhile, the Stargazer has stayed pretty much the same, so with the other classes stepping on her toes, what does the Stargazer even have left...

    • The Stargazer's main schtick seems to be, in principle, delivering the biggest round 1 novas. With an initiative bonus based off her casting stat, she's usually going high on initiative, and her opening book looks like dropping a full-power illumination or complex formula on every action. And then doing it again on round 2. Loses steam a bit of steam t3 as Luminous Reservoir can't keep up though.
      This is more useful if you routinely find occasion to drop a complex formula barrier and a surge t1, which isn't necessarily hard but which options are useful are going to be party- and campaign-dependent.
    • Conversely, the Stargazer has the most flexibility wrt how many motes to invest in armaments; it affects how many rounds she can fall back on Luminous Reservoir to toss out full-power illuminations anyway, instead of requiring an array of lower-cost illuminations to fill out the gaps. Too bad she doesn't actually get that many of these.
    • The Boundless Creativity feat, which lets you actually pull out rarely-used utility. This would be more useful if there were enough illumination options that you couldn't just have all the useful ones. As it is, it's mainly usable for Purity shuffling, Attuned/Specialized, and maybe pulling up a really niche illumination effect that you wouldn't normally bother with (Consumption... which I don't think even works as intended; without Contagion's "strikes immediately" clause, it's just barely ever going to be relevant, but with it you're doing ability damage at level 1...)


    Overall, it's ... not much. Stargazer wants to be the "caster" of the bunch, but there's just not enough to differentiate its "casting" features; it just gets more. Bigger illuminations, more of them, some meaningless variety, and basically no other options. A few quickie comments while I'm looking at it:

    • Luminous Reservoir is hiding a lot of dead levels. Basically its whole effect is 1.5(EL+1)m floating, and at a multiple of EL it merely maintains relevance without adding anything; you actually have nine dead levels. Bottomless Reservoir expands that to 2.5EL, which brings us up to three round of sustained max-power illuminations, which is actually only one extra round but feels closer to enough of the time to be your role than just two, since the discretionary-ness goes up quite a lot at that point. Rather than have the feat, it might've been better to just have the feature be 6m at 3rd and +5m at each odd, and just get rid of the feat.
    • Meanwhile the actual features, shoved in the gaps between Luminous Reservoir, wind up coming pretty at odd times; Astral Celerity is neat, but maybe a bit too early; Shining Schemata is in the right place for what it is, but what it is is either marginal or tremendously broken; Sagacity is coming very late for such a fundamentally mundane mostly-flavour feature which still costs skill points to make you a bit more SAD at face-ing that up until this point was totally not your job, and Grace of Aeons is, well ... if you'd played an Empath, you'd have Will off your casting stat and you could have all good saves whenever you want...
    • Change Consumption something like this:

      Consumption [Stargazer]
      To an evoker, light is life, and wonder, and beauty untold. But such radiance can be an awful thing to those who have not been touched by its power - a ghastly-bright inner fire that consumes their very souls. The target of the surge must make a Fortitude save or contract a supernatural illness known as Radiant Wasting, the result of a shard of tainted light embedded deep in their essence. This functions just as any other supernatural disease,Radiant Wasting strikes immediately, with a save DC equal to the evoker's illumination save DC, an incubation period of one day, andbut otherwise functions just as any other supernatural disease, and has no infection vector beyond use of this surge. Radiant Wasting deals 1d4 damage to one ability score, chosen by the evoker when she crafts an illumination with this component. For every 4m of this illumination's cost, she may select an additional ability score to deal 1d4 damage to, or increase the damage to an already selected ability by +2. Radiant Wasting may be cured like any other disease, but effects that emulate diseases (such as the spell Contagion) are unable to mimic it: Radiant Wasting's symptoms are too volatile, and too closely tied to individual evokers, to be reproduced with any sort of coherency. An individual who contracts Radiant Wasting from a surge with this component retains their affliction even after the surge's duration would otherwise end.

      This would makes the effect useful for more than a bizarre hard-to-deny easily-treated not-quite-poison with no immediate effect... Doing nothing at low mote cost is consistent with most of the other surge effects, and at level 4 it's actually reasonable to do some real ability damage, cf. Chill Touch vs the penalty rays at 1st, Ego Whip, Lesser Restoration and 2nd, while Contagion actually gives you more choices at 3rd. Actually, it might just be better to reword on based on Contagion.


    And then there's that one thing Stargazer can do that isn't just "but more", but differently problematic:

    • Shining Schemata is, fundamentally, broken, and lets you run a half-baked artificer, slightly better than warlock 12 but not in any of the ways that matter.
    • The interaction between Stargazer 6 and Frostfell Maven 5 is ... unclear. Specifically, it's arguable that Frostfell Artistry (Empowerment) applies to all item creation, since it isn't restricted to only items that require Craft Magical Arms and Armor, and there are items that do require multiple item creation feats, whose requirements you have to satisfy separately, like the Caster's Shield, which, as written, would seem to let you incidentally craft scrolls up to 3rd level as long as you also have Scribe Scroll.
      Normally as an evoker you can't actually pick up crafting feats without a lot of extra work, but since you have Shining Schemata, you definitely have Scribe Scroll, and if interpreted broadly that means you can spend 10 minutes per 7k of base price and basically create any item you took the feats for, which sounds lot like "cast any 9th-level spell in 10 minutes, plus also incidentally an 8th, a 2nd, and a 1st" to me. You might want to pick up CWI for the weird stuff, but otherwise you're p covered.
      (And if you don't get to read it that way ... well, then you don't need the Stargazer and the Empath entry is easier, but it turns out there's this specific weapon, the Luck Blade, which can be crafted to contain 3 wishes, and requires only CMAA and some spells. You can ignore the gold and XP costs and craft it in 210 minutes. If it melts away when you let go of it, you don't care, you got your wishes and you wished for a scroll with six copies of shapechange, because hey, remember the sidebar that indicates that scrolls contain multiple spells?
      ... I don't think this one is even arguable, the Frostfell Maven just ... can do this. As its 5th-level class feature. Which is gained at 10th level with a standard entry.)


    ... in summary, yeah, Stargazers are probably a bit lackluster.

    (Also what the heck am I saying about quickie comments, this took me hours.)
    Last edited by sreservoir; 2019-02-19 at 02:10 PM.

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