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    Default Ravenous Epoch (Martial School) (Peach-Help-Wip-ect)

    Before we continue I must warn you that I have nearly no experience whatsoever dealing with martial classes. I cannot begin to fathom why I feel the urge to create this. But that's just how I work I guess- impulse.

    I'll only be posting these one level at a time, because as I said I have no idea what I'm doing so I'm going to take it slow. Don't want to write up the whole thing only to have to go back and redo it all :P That... and the mood wore off in addition to it being late.

    Ravenous Epoch
    {Image removed}
    ^- There was surely nothing wrong with that image --,..,--; free image sharing site, of a public character, and I kept it tiny... With that my motivation is dead, thanx.

    Ravenous Epoch maneuvers focus on manipulating time and perceptions of time in order to perform unique tricks. They rely on speed and cunning with the occasional set up for overwhelming force using small attacks... in vast amounts.
    The first disciple of Ravenous Epoch, it's creator, was Nikolea Hamilton. An aristocrat by birth she was raised in the arms of nobility during a time when eastern sages were making pilgrimage through their kingdom bringing with them tales of sorcery and spirits. Nikolea was involved in a short romantic endeavor that ended in tragedy, a reoccurring theme for her. Her life continued to repeat the same horrors time and time again. Every cause she joined, every friend she made. They were all stripped away from her one after another. She was constantly out of time, always too late, never at a more then moments of peace.
    The kingdom fell apart and her family along with several others were driven off in brutal hunts from which she took refuge with one of the traveling sages with whom she learned to defend herself and pursue personal growth.
    Nikolea grew, and grew. She became a master and remained in solitude within her quarters until she vanished. Some say they've met the master, seen her at momentous occasions... but dropped it when they realize that the woman was too young to be the master.
    New disciples are made whenever she makes an appearance, when she takes someone as an apprentice before letting them loose back among the world.
    These wanderers keep to themselves as if watching, and waiting.
    These disciples are not often seen in combat, not having to as they danger with ease, but when they do they favor thrown weapons or, rarely, a bow.

    Key skill: Sense Motive. Discerning the patterns in the flow of time is remarkably similar to reading others to intuit what they are playing at.

    Weapons: Daggers, Shuriken and Darts are the primary weapons used by the Ravenous Epoch. Throwing weapons in general are open for use. A disciple should choose any three thrown weapons to be marked as their associated weapons for this discipline.


    First Level:
    Echo Fist (Strike): An attack that echos in the targets mind.
    Backflash (Counter): Enemy striking you flickers, and for a moment appears as he did many years ago.
    Time Snap (Strike): You halt time just long enough to deliver a second attack.
    Time Lag (Stance): You thicken the flow of time in the area around you, slowing down your opponents.
    Temporal Grace (Boost): You push time out away from your body, loosening its grasp upon you as your body slips out of focus to those observing you.

    Spoiler
    Show

    First Level-


    Echo Fist
    Ravenous Epoch (Strike)
    Level:
    xxx 1
    Initiation Action: Standard action
    Range:see text
    Duration: 1 round
    Save: 11+Cha mod

    A sharp attack that plays with the victim's perceptions of time, inducing powerful déjà vu.

    As part of this maneuver make a basic attack. If you hit, you deal damage as normal but the target becomes shaken as well.



    Backflash
    Ravenous Epoch (Counter)
    Level:
    xxx 1
    Initiation Action: Immediate Action
    Range: 10 feet per IL
    Target: see text
    Duration: 1 round per IL
    Save: 11+Cha mod

    As your target strikes at you, the time drains away from them as if a dam has been broken. They rapidly lose time, reverting to a younger version of themselves in seconds.

    You may initiate this counter whenever you're attacked. Your opponent has to succeed on a Fort save. On a failed save the time gets stolen from them.
    The target suffers the effects of two negative levels. These levels are not lost... just locked away. The target gets reduced two age categories, which can't kill it but at worst leave them as a young teenager. Multiple uses



    Time Snap
    Ravenous Epoch (Strike)
    Level:
    xxx 1
    Initiation Action: Standard action
    Range:see text
    Duration: 1 round
    Save: 11+Cha mod

    Letting your power flair, you stop time just long enough to attack once more before anyone has a say in the matter.

    When you initiate this maneuver you can make two basic attacks at -2 to the attack roll.
    For every 4 ranks you have in Sense Motive, you get +1 to your attacks.



    Time Lag
    Ravenous Epoch (Stance)
    Level:
    xxx 1
    Initiation Action: Swift action
    Target: You
    Duration: Stance

    Focusing with some difficulty you feel the flow of time. Reaching out, you take hold of it and gather it around you, slowing any who try to get too close.

    When you initiate this boost the air around you ripples and color seems muted.
    All squares in a radius of 5 feet around you count as difficult terrain, including air squares.
    For every 5 ranks you have in Sense Motive this can extends an extra 5 feet away from you. If you have 8 or more ranks in Sense Motive, this effect ignores Freedom of Movement.
    Your own movement isn't limited in any way by this boost, and difficult terrain is left behind as you move.



    Temporal Grace
    Ravenous Epoch (Boost)
    Level:
    xxx 1
    Initiation Action: Swift action
    Target: you.
    Duration: 3 rounds.

    You take a deep breath and exhale, relaxing your body attempting to ease yourself out of time's grasp.

    While you remain in this stance you increase your speed by 5ft with a +2 to tumble and escape artist checks.
    For every 5 ranks in Sense Motive you double these effects and gain +2 to reflex saves. At rank 10 you are under the effects of Freedom of Movement.
    Last edited by Cipherthe3vil; 2013-01-06 at 12:45 PM.

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    Default Re: Ravenous Epoch (Martial School) (Peach-Help-Wip-ect)

    Well first things first: This is awesome and I love the concept.

    Now that that is out of the way, going over the first level of things (as it is the only level posted at this time), I find they are done quite well. Fit with the concept greatly and are not too powerful. I can already see myself using this school, that is how much I'm liking it.

    Over all great work so far, can't wait to see more.

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    Default Re: Ravenous Epoch (Martial School) (Peach-Help-Wip-ect)

    Quote Originally Posted by DrewVolker View Post
    Well first things first: This is awesome and I love the concept.

    Now that that is out of the way, going over the first level of things (as it is the only level posted at this time), I find they are done quite well. Fit with the concept greatly and are not too powerful. I can already see myself using this school, that is how much I'm liking it.

    Over all great work so far, can't wait to see more.
    I haven't done anything wrong? Everything's on target?

    Alright then. I'll attempt... level two.

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    Default Re: Ravenous Epoch (Martial School) (Peach-Help-Wip-ect)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cipherthe3vil View Post
    These disciples are not often seen in combat, not having to as they danger with ease, but when they do they favor thrown weapons or, rarely, a bow.

    Key skill: Sense Motive. Discerning the patterns in the flow of time is remarkably similar to reading others to intuit what they are playing at.
    Weapon list maybe? Martial disciplines have a key set of specific associated weapons.

    First Level-


    Echo Fist
    Ravenous Epoch (Strike)
    Level:
    xxx 1
    Initiation Action: Standard action
    Range:see text
    Duration: 1 round
    Save: 11+Cha mod

    A sharp attack that plays with the victim's perceptions of time, inducing powerful déjà vu that leaves the them dazed.

    As part of this maneuver make a basic attack. If you hit, you deal damage as normal and your opponent must make a Will save or become dazed for one round.
    For every 4 ranks you have in Sense Motive, the condition lasts 1 extra round.
    If you have 20 HD or more double the duration.
    WAY too strong. Dazed is often more potent than stun, as almost nothing is immune to dazed and lots of things are immune to stunned. Considered dazzled or something equally less-than-menacing.

    Backflash
    Ravenous Epoch (Counter)
    Level:
    xxx 1
    Initiation Action: Immediate Action
    Range: 10 feet per IL
    Target: see text
    Duration: 1 round per IL
    Save: 11+Cha mod

    As your target strikes at you, it ripples before you and there stands a much younger version of itself.

    You may initiate this counter whenever you're attacked. Your opponent has to succeed on a Fort save or go down an age category and take 2 negative levels that last 1 round.
    For each 6 ranks you have in Sense Motive, the effect lasts one extra round. If you have 10 or more ranks even enemies immune to negative levels may be affected, but they gain a +5 bonus on their saves.
    If you have 20 HD or more double the duration and they take 5 negative levels.
    Not many counters for level 1, but I did it with my Iron Tortoise discipline, a strong defensive discipline, so I can't fault you. Negative levels are again, WAY too strong. Not really any way to fix this easily either, just too powerful.



    Time Snap
    Ravenous Epoch (Strike)
    Level:
    xxx 1
    Initiation Action: Standard action
    Range:see text
    Duration: 1 round
    Save: 11+Cha mod

    Letting your power flair, you stop time just long enough to attack once more before anyone has a say in the matter.

    When you initiate this maneuver you can make two basic attacks.
    For every 4 ranks you have in Sense Motive, you get +1 to your attacks.
    If you have 20 HD or more you can deliver a third attack.
    This is strong, but not overly so. Perhaps a -2 penalty, and let the bonus from Sense Motive stand?

    Time Lag
    Ravenous Epoch (Boost)
    Level:
    xxx 1
    Initiation Action: Swift action
    Target: You
    Duration: 1 round

    Focusing with some difficulty you feel the flow of time. Reaching out, you take hold of it and gather it around you, slowing any who try to get too close.

    When you initiate this boost the air around you ripples and color seems muted.
    All squares in a radius of 5 feet around you count as difficult terrain, including air squares.
    For every 5 ranks you have in Sense Motive this can extends an extra 5 feet away from you. If you have 8 or more ranks in Sense Motive, this effect ignores Freedom of Movement.
    Your own movement isn't limited in any way by this boost, and difficult terrain is left behind as you move.
    If you have 20 HD or more you can double the radius affected and the difficult terrain costs x4 movement rather then x2.
    This, this is a stance. Not a boost.

    Temporal Grace
    Ravenous Epoch (Stance)
    Level:
    xxx 1
    Initiation Action: Swift action
    Target: you.
    Duration: stance

    You take a deep breath and exhale, relaxing your body and easing yourself out of time's grasp. You appear as a blur, moving with increased speed.

    While you remain in this stance you increase your speed by 20ft and enemies gain a 15% miss chance against you.
    If you have 20 HD or more, your speed increases by 30ft and enemies gain a 30% miss chance.
    Too strong, Iron Heart has a stance that increases speed at 3rd level, not first, and no miss chance. Perhaps a +2 Dodge bonus, but a -2 to attacks as you're too fast to easily coordinate?



    Overall, kind of too strong. I've written quite a few disciplines, so I'm hoping my word will carry a little bit of experience. I have a similar discipline called Riven Hourglass. Also, the 20HD or more thing? I'd drop that; there isn't any call for it in other disciplines published or homebrew, and it doesn't make sense as disciplines are very static and linear.

    Keep at it though, and don't let me knock the wind from your sails. Just tone it down a bit, and examine other disciplines for ideas on proper scaling.

    -X
    Chris Bennett
    Lead Designer (Path of War)
    Dreamscarred Press

    My credits:
    The Path of War: An OGL Tome of Battle for the Pathfinder game system, by Dreamscarred Press, available now!!
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    Default Re: Ravenous Epoch (Martial School) (Peach-Help-Wip-ect)

    Backflash will actually kill anyone of 2 HD or less. Echo Fist is a neat concept, but a death sentence, since you can easily be getting up to three rounds of dazing or more at relatively low levels. Time Flash is harder to judge, because I don't feel like it's necessarily overpowered, but it's definitely better than other similar maneuvers from the core book. The stance also seems much stronger than Child of Shadows, which is a relatively solid 1st-level stance.

    The idea of maneuvers that scale with HD is very intriguing. The 20 HD abilities might be a little silly, though, just because so little of the game takes place post-level-20. Maybe something like "if you have the ability to use maneuvers of level X", where X is this maneuver's level +5. So if you can use 6th level maneuvers, your 1st level ones get better, making them potentially useful to prepare again.
    Last edited by Eurus; 2012-10-17 at 06:20 PM.
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    Default Re: Ravenous Epoch (Martial School) (Peach-Help-Wip-ect)

    I love the concept enough that I was going to give you a critique, but once I saw ErrantX had posted, I knew a critique from me would be unnecessary. And I was right; everything he said, I second, and there's nothing really to add. I especially second the part about keeping at it. It's a great concept for a discipline, and I'm excited to see what you do with it.
    Thanks to Dashwood for the avatar!

    Check out my Homebrew.

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    Default Re: Ravenous Epoch (Martial School) (Peach-Help-Wip-ect)

    Well, I must admit, I feel a bit bad now.
    I honestly didn't really see much issue with balance here, then again I think I did confuse dazzled with dazed for the first one.
    Then again I was kinda looking at this from the view point that I believe martial classes deserve some really nice stuff, as in most games, they get the shaft at later levels.

    So my bad on saying I thought this was balanced when it seems others seem to think the other thing. Sorry I gave you a false idea of balance, it was not my intention.

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    Default Re: Ravenous Epoch (Martial School) (Peach-Help-Wip-ect)

    My question is, what disciplines are you balancing against?

    Because I have seen 3 general power levels:

    1. By the Book: Here, your getting damage boost, and maybe some nice tricks. Kind of get a bit lackluster, but whatevs.

    2. Xefas Level: I call it this because of the disciplines he has based off of Exalted. This type of discipline scales by level, gives you neat, unique effects that greatly shape how you play your character, and are generally my preferred kind of Discipline. Examples include most of The Demented One's Disciplines, and any discipline that Xefas has made (except maybe that druidic one he made forever ago.)

    I like that level best because they really embrace what "a 9th level maneuver should be at the same power level as a 6th or 7th level spell"; their capstone Maneuvers tend to be stuff like:

    "If this strike kills your opponent, they can't be resurrected. Ever."

    or

    "This strike creates a sandstorm a mile in radius. You can ride it. Like a horse."

    or

    "you move so fast that, if you cascade your maneuvers right, you could create 27 duplicates of yourself for a round"

    or

    "you punch a guy several miles. They make a crater. There is a feat that augments this maneuver by letting you punch people so hard they appear in the Abyss."

    They also tend to have stuff like boosts that last 5 rounds, unique meshes of mechanics (the Sleeping Goddess discipline gives you Power Points, and you get boosts that let you manifest mindblades. The Infernal Monster discipline drives you into stacking rages, where you can't do anything but attack and you can't recover any maneuvers except from a few specific disciplines. The Malfeasant Heart gives you the sweet, sweet ability to nuke a mile radius, and generally is a fusion of "NUCLEAR FIRE!" and "I AM THE KING! OBEY!". And so on and so forth.)

    While this sounds uber-ultra powerful, it ends up being pretty darn balanced against higher level enemies (and are generally quirky and fun in what they let you do.)

    3. Oslecamo's Touhou-based Disciplines over on minmaxboards: They are, quite frankly, intended to squeeze martial characters up to Tier 2 by shear "woah"-ness. The 1st level maneuvers tend to look like what you already have posted. Of course, both Oslecamo and the rest of the people working on those Disciplines full out state that they are designing to a much higher power level.

    So, which one do you want to aim for? I'd say aim for 2, and then try to think of mega-awesome tricks that you think would be sexy-fine for a time traveling discipline. Though you could continue on the path of 3 if you felt like it.

    Or you could do 1, if you were a boring person. Really, add some pizzazz.

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    Default Re: Ravenous Epoch (Martial School) (Peach-Help-Wip-ect)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eurus View Post
    Backflash will actually kill anyone of 2 HD or less.
    The oddest part being that it would then later raise them as a wight. I... really wish negative levels worked differently. Not that you can't put in a clause that says "These work like negative levels but aren't negative energy based and don't make undead.", but I feel like it should be unnecessary for you to do so.

    ---

    Anyway, my (ostensibly relevant) advice:

    You had a cool idea for a discipline. You appear to have had several neat ideas for what a person with that discipline could do. And you seem to want maneuvers to scale. All good things.

    But it doesn't look, to me, like you have any idea in mind about how the discipline is going to progress, both conceptually and mechanically.

    Making a discipline is more akin to making a base class than it is to, say, a spell (psionic power, soulmeld, vestige, etc). It's not just one idea, but an entire progression of a theme all the way from Level 1 Village Militiaman to Level 20 Cosmos Treading Hero.

    I think, if you actually want to finish the thing, and have it all be coherent and awesome, your best bet would be to go back to the drawing board and decide what each level of maneuver means as far as your theme goes.

    Currently, the Level 1 Militiaman equivalent for your discipline can stop time, age-regress people by decades (or more), and shut off someone's brain for ~12 seconds. Where are you going from here? Not just mechanically, but thematically. For eight more levels of maneuvers?

    Start small. Imagine a new apprentice learning your discipline. What can they do? What can the head of the class do that the starting apprentices can't? What can the master do that his students can't? What can his master do? What can the secret level 20+ probably-plane-hopping grandmaster that invented the damn thing, all the way up to its level 9 capstone maneuver, do that no one else can do?

    At least, this is what I've come to learn after having started and not finished several disciplines, myself. I'm in the planning phase of re-doing one, however. This is my .txt file:

    Spoiler
    Show

    Level 1: Dishwasher. Potato Peeler. (Strike: Peeling Ten Thousand Potatoes)
    Level 2-3: Prep Cook. Mise En Place. Equipment management. Stock making.
    Level 4-5: Cook. Sauteing, grilling, poaching, frying.
    Level 6-7: Chef. Organizing. Overseeing. Specializing.
    Level 8-9: Dumb Gonzo ****

    Mechanical Themes: Preparation Bonuses, Boosting/Serving Allies, Accruing Bonuses Over Time, Secondary Non-Combat Effects


    Now, when I go to actually write maneuvers, I can look and go "Alright, level 4 maneuver. Better make something about sauteing a thing. I bet I could make the continual flips of a saute pan a metaphor for... accruing bonuses over time!"

    "Level 6 maneuver? Well, I can make a maneuver about a Chef organizing his brigade according to their strengths and weaknesses, which can... give boosts to my allies!"

    And so on. So, if yours read "Level 1: Alter perceptions of time.", then you could think "Alright, what are three to five ways you can alter the perception of time?" write those down, and make maneuvers out of them. Then, if it reads "Level 6-7: Move physically through time.", you can start writing out stuff about your future self going back in time to double-team-punch-flank with your present self, and stick mechanics to that, and so on.

    Just an idea. And certainly not the only way to do things. But it's where I'm at, at the moment.

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    Default Re: Ravenous Epoch (Martial School) (Peach-Help-Wip-ect)

    Does this mean...

    That the Adamantine Chef could be completed?!

    Oh Frabjous Day!

    And I agree with your advice, as well.

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    Default Re: Ravenous Epoch (Martial School) (Peach-Help-Wip-ect)

    Thanks for all the comments. And they were all actually helpful and not just telling me I suck XD

    I was pretty busy since I said I was going to start on the second, glad I didn't start just yet.

    The most helpful thing was pointing out who has brew'd disciplines already, I was searching and couldn't find any so I was left with only one source with which to compare. *Looks at everyone else's*

    One thing that I didn't get well enough is what the difference is between a Boost and a Stance. Or indeed what a Stance is really supposed to be, since they seem special with a separate system to obtain them.


    *Lingers*... so much stuff to reply to


    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    My question is, what disciplines are you balancing against?

    Because I have seen 3 general power levels:

    1. By the Book: Here, your getting damage boost, and maybe some nice tricks. Kind of get a bit lackluster, but whatevs.
    Boring as All's-hell, I could never.

    2. Xefas Level: I call it this because of the disciplines he has based off of Exalted. This type of discipline scales by level, gives you neat, unique effects that greatly shape how you play your character, and are generally my preferred kind of Discipline. Examples include most of The Demented One's Disciplines, and any discipline that Xefas has made (except maybe that druidic one he made forever ago.)
    I like that level best because they really embrace what "a 9th level maneuver should be at the same power level as a 6th or 7th level spell"; their capstone Maneuvers tend to be stuff like:
    "If this strike kills your opponent, they can't be resurrected. Ever."
    or
    "This strike creates a sandstorm a mile in radius. You can ride it. Like a horse."
    or
    "you move so fast that, if you cascade your maneuvers right, you could create 27 duplicates of yourself for a round"
    or
    "you punch a guy several miles. They make a crater. There is a feat that augments this maneuver by letting you punch people so hard they appear in the Abyss."
    They also tend to have stuff like boosts that last 5 rounds, unique meshes of mechanics (the Sleeping Goddess discipline gives you Power Points, and you get boosts that let you manifest mindblades. The Infernal Monster discipline drives you into stacking rages, where you can't do anything but attack and you can't recover any maneuvers except from a few specific disciplines. The Malfeasant Heart gives you the sweet, sweet ability to nuke a mile radius, and generally is a fusion of "NUCLEAR FIRE!" and "I AM THE KING! OBEY!". And so on and so forth.)
    While this sounds uber-ultra powerful, it ends up being pretty darn balanced against higher level enemies (and are generally quirky and fun in what they let you do.)

    3. Oslecamo's Touhou-based Disciplines over on minmaxboards: They are, quite frankly, intended to squeeze martial characters up to Tier 2 by shear "woah"-ness. The 1st level maneuvers tend to look like what you already have posted. Of course, both Oslecamo and the rest of the people working on those Disciplines full out state that they are designing to a much higher power level.

    So, which one do you want to aim for? I'd say aim for 2, and then try to think of mega-awesome tricks that you think would be sexy-fine for a time traveling discipline. Though you could continue on the path of 3 if you felt like it.

    Or you could do 1, if you were a boring person. Really, add some pizzazz.




    Ah... well I searched and I couldn't find anything to compare against. I couldn't find crap to use as a guideline except.... Oslecamo's Venerable Battlefield.... Which is for gods. So ^_^; Yea. I would say this is like 2.5 on your scale.





    Quote Originally Posted by ErrantX View Post
    Weapon list maybe? Martial disciplines have a key set of specific associated weapons.

    I was hesitant about that. I wasn't totally sure if you were supposed to include one or not, so I tried to just point it out in the description. I'll do that.


    WAY too strong. Dazed is often more potent than stun, as almost nothing is immune to dazed and lots of things are immune to stunned. Considered dazzled or something equally less-than-menacing.

    Ah... I had some reservations about using Dazed, but the others didn't quite capture what I had in mind. But on reflection it is a touch overpowered even by my standards.


    Not many counters for level 1, but I did it with my Iron Tortoise discipline, a strong defensive discipline, so I can't fault you. Negative levels are again, WAY too strong. Not really any way to fix this easily either, just too powerful.

    I wasn't thinking too much when I entered negative levels and left it at that. I should have stopped to think on the implications of a negative level better. The intention was for a moment they are weaker, as if to a previous age and experience. I'll definitely rework it (Especially since someone pointed out that anyone killed by a negative level turns into a wight XD)



    This is strong, but not overly so. Perhaps a -2 penalty, and let the bonus from Sense Motive stand?

    Definitely reasonable, their attention could be split a little while trying to stop time long enough to get the second attack in.



    This, this is a stance. Not a boost.

    I'm not very aware of the differences. When I'm done replying I'll go look at other homebrewed disciplines and check. Until then it looks like just changing it to stance and perhaps getting rid of the other stance which is apparently very improperly leveled.



    Too strong, Iron Heart has a stance that increases speed at 3rd level, not first, and no miss chance. Perhaps a +2 Dodge bonus, but a -2 to attacks as you're too fast to easily coordinate?

    Would that make it more of a boost? It sounds like a boost just going on feeling. If so it could replace/swap with the other boost which is really a stance it would seem.



    Overall, kind of too strong. I've written quite a few disciplines, so I'm hoping my word will carry a little bit of experience. I have a similar discipline called Riven Hourglass. Also, the 20HD or more thing? I'd drop that; there isn't any call for it in other disciplines published or homebrew, and it doesn't make sense as disciplines are very static and linear.

    Keep at it though, and don't let me knock the wind from your sails. Just tone it down a bit, and examine other disciplines for ideas on proper scaling.

    -X

    The 20HD is for epic games where I feel that a time user would be better at home at, actually being weaker at the lower levels then unlocking at 20+HD. It was also because the only discipline I was using as a base did that so I went along with it ^_^;


    Quote Originally Posted by Eurus View Post
    Backflash will actually kill anyone of 2 HD or less. Echo Fist is a neat concept, but a death sentence, since you can easily be getting up to three rounds of dazing or more at relatively low levels. Time Flash is harder to judge, because I don't feel like it's necessarily overpowered, but it's definitely better than other similar maneuvers from the core book. The stance also seems much stronger than Child of Shadows, which is a relatively solid 1st-level stance.

    Ah... Well I didn't actually intend for the reverse-aging thing to be lethal on it's own. Again, back to the me not paying real attention to negative levels (Aka, I got lazy/rushed)


    Maybe something like "if you have the ability to use maneuvers of level X", where X is this maneuver's level +5. So if you can use 6th level maneuvers, your 1st level ones get better, making them potentially useful to prepare again.

    Mmm. Elaborate? I don't know much about maneuvers so if you could expand on that it would be great, sounds like something I'd want to use.


    Quote Originally Posted by DrewVolker View Post
    Well, I must admit, I feel a bit bad now.
    I honestly didn't really see much issue with balance here, then again I think I did confuse dazzled with dazed for the first one.
    Then again I was kinda looking at this from the view point that I believe martial classes deserve some really nice stuff, as in most games, they get the shaft at later levels.

    So my bad on saying I thought this was balanced when it seems others seem to think the other thing. Sorry I gave you a false idea of balance, it was not my intention.


    It's just fine. Maybe you feel a bit silly but it's fine. I was glad to have any comment at the time, and it did kick-start this thread.



    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    Anyway, my (ostensibly relevant) advice:

    You had a cool idea for a discipline. You appear to have had several neat ideas for what a person with that discipline could do. And you seem to want maneuvers to scale. All good things.

    But it doesn't look, to me, like you have any idea in mind about how the discipline is going to progress, both conceptually and mechanically.

    Making a discipline is more akin to making a base class than it is to, say, a spell (psionic power, soulmeld, vestige, etc). It's not just one idea, but an entire progression of a theme all the way from Level 1 Village Militiaman to Level 20 Cosmos Treading Hero.

    I think, if you actually want to finish the thing, and have it all be coherent and awesome, your best bet would be to go back to the drawing board and decide what each level of maneuver means as far as your theme goes.

    I'd disagree a bit. I know what I see when I picture then. My issues are translating it from just thoughts, feelings, and impressions into a solid layout of text and crunchiness.

    But at the same time it does still stand, with regard to actual mechanics I am at a loss. Doesn't help that I've barely ever touched martial stuff at all. Don't think I've ever played one, or seriously looked at a class other then god that was an initiator.

    My individual theme for the levels is very loose, so doing as you said could be for the best... I'm not good at planning however. I've got more then a few projects I've ditched because I simply "Wasn't feeling it anymore"... planned or not.


    Currently, the Level 1 Militiaman equivalent for your discipline can stop time, age-regress people by decades (or more), and shut off someone's brain for ~12 seconds. Where are you going from here? Not just mechanically, but thematically. For eight more levels of maneuvers?

    Start small. Imagine a new apprentice learning your discipline. What can they do? What can the head of the class do that the starting apprentices can't? What can the master do that his students can't? What can his master do? What can the secret level 20+ probably-plane-hopping grandmaster that invented the damn thing, all the way up to its level 9 capstone maneuver, do that no one else can do?

    In perspective it does seem a bit much :P
    I should lessen it. Though I was intending to "start small". My only scale, however, was measured against gods... xD



    At least, this is what I've come to learn after having started and not finished several disciplines, myself. I'm in the planning phase of re-doing one, however. This is my .txt file:

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    Level 1: Dishwasher. Potato Peeler. (Strike: Peeling Ten Thousand Potatoes)
    Level 2-3: Prep Cook. Mise En Place. Equipment management. Stock making.
    Level 4-5: Cook. Sauteing, grilling, poaching, frying.
    Level 6-7: Chef. Organizing. Overseeing. Specializing.
    Level 8-9: Dumb Gonzo ****

    Mechanical Themes: Preparation Bonuses, Boosting/Serving Allies, Accruing Bonuses Over Time, Secondary Non-Combat Effects


    Now, when I go to actually write maneuvers, I can look and go "Alright, level 4 maneuver. Better make something about sauteing a thing. I bet I could make the continual flips of a saute pan a metaphor for... accruing bonuses over time!"

    "Level 6 maneuver? Well, I can make a maneuver about a Chef organizing his brigade according to their strengths and weaknesses, which can... give boosts to my allies!"

    And so on. So, if yours read "Level 1: Alter perceptions of time.", then you could think "Alright, what are three to five ways you can alter the perception of time?" write those down, and make maneuvers out of them. Then, if it reads "Level 6-7: Move physically through time.", you can start writing out stuff about your future self going back in time to double-team-punch-flank with your present self, and stick mechanics to that, and so on.

    Just an idea. And certainly not the only way to do things. But it's where I'm at, at the moment.
    I can do that. I'm used to just feeling what I want and letting it out (Sometimes with the mindset "And let whatever anyone else thinks be damned!", to be honest. Usually because I couldn't really do any fixing since it was out and I was moving on. But yea...)
    This is new territory so I don't know how to release it so some proper setting up is in order...


    Time to go do some reading now that I know where to find some other works to compare with.

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    Default Re: Ravenous Epoch (Martial School) (Peach-Help-Wip-ect)

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    The oddest part being that it would then later raise them as a wight.
    We need stats for some kind of temporal wraith now. They could have some kind of aging/deaging attack and be a manifestation of the fabric of time continuing to unravel unchecked. Of course, quaruts, the inevitables that serve as D&D's version of the clockroach trope, would eventually get involved. Perhaps temporal wraiths die off if they fail to feed, so quaruts only get involved if there is a temporal wraithocalypse or one of them advances enough hit die to become a paradox wraith.
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    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will love & tolerate your right to say it." Evelyn Beatrice Hall said that & I'd say she knows a little bit more about optimism than you do, pal, because she invented it, & then she perfected it so that no living pegasister could best her in the ring of friendship. Then she had her friends take every parasprite on the internet, & then she herded them into Sugarcube Corner & then she threw a party for every single one.

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    Default Re: Ravenous Epoch (Martial School) (Peach-Help-Wip-ect)

    I also feel like I should suggest that, if you're mostly interested in doing high-level stuff, without necessarily mucking about with such a lengthy progression, there are the largely unnoticed and unused Epic Discipline rules, courtesy of The Demented One. The linked thread contains his example Epic Discipline. To my knowledge, the only other one to exist is, well, mine.

    I think it would be cool to see more of those. Just a thought?
    Last edited by Xefas; 2012-10-18 at 03:05 PM.

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    Default Re: Ravenous Epoch (Martial School) (Peach-Help-Wip-ect)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cipherthe3vil View Post
    Ah... well I searched and I couldn't find anything to compare against. I couldn't find crap to use as a guideline except.... Oslecamo's Venerable Battlefield.... Which is for gods. So ^_^; Yea. I would say this is like 2.5 on your scale.
    In the Homebrew Tier Compendium I made a huge-ass list of disciplines, which I later planned to grade by power, theme, skill and associated weapons. (And maybe give them seal of approval.) It's still on my "to do" list for the HTC, but I put it off after posting that list, because getting all that stuff together alone was... quite a workload.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    I think it would be cool to see more of those. Just a thought?
    I have... notes.
    Last edited by Morph Bark; 2012-10-18 at 03:31 PM.
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    Default Re: Ravenous Epoch (Martial School) (Peach-Help-Wip-ect)

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    I also feel like I should suggest that, if you're mostly interested in doing high-level stuff, without necessarily mucking about with such a lengthy progression, there are the largely unnoticed and unused Epic Discipline rules, courtesy of The Demented One. The linked thread contains his example Epic Discipline. To my knowledge, the only other one to exist is, well, mine.

    I think it would be cool to see more of those. Just a thought?
    That looks perfect. If I could finish this, then I can extend it with that instead of trying to make this work for both.


    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    In the Homebrew Tier Compendium I made a huge-ass list of disciplines, which I later planned to grade by power, theme, skill and associated weapons. (And maybe give them seal of approval.) It's still on my "to do" list for the HTC, but I put it off after posting that list, because getting all that stuff together alone was... quite a workload.
    Ah. I forgot all about that.
    My mind has been very preoccupied the last few days. I knew I was a bit scattered o-0 But there is a lot of stuff I should have been aware of or done that I didn't.


    I fix'd the level ones. I'll post an update when I finish the second set, which will be a while since I'm not going to continue until I'm done reading all other home-brewed disciplines or until I feel I understand it fully.
    Last edited by Cipherthe3vil; 2012-10-19 at 06:01 PM.

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