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  1. - Top - End - #241
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Analysis's Avatar

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    Default Re: Let's vote up another Burning Wheel Character!

    Technically, she could open up Death Art with a general skill point and use it with her orcish Cold Black Blood trait. Just saying.

  2. - Top - End - #242
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: Let's vote up another Burning Wheel Character!

    I have no idea what Death Art is, but if we can get it, I want it. It sounds cool.
    Quote Originally Posted by GungHo, on Battletech
    The Atlas is also goofy but it has that whole "Stay Puft Marshmallow Man" menacing smile thing going for it. The guy who drew that one up was obviously taken to the Nutcracker when he was a child... and he was screaming in terror the entire time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enterti, Cogidubnus
    Glyphstone, out of all the playground I think you scare me the most...
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombimode
    Glyphstone, you are an evil person :D

  3. - Top - End - #243
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Let's vote up another Burning Wheel Character!

    It is basically necromancy, from the Magic Burner. It doesn't work on orcs since they are elf-derived, but does work on human corpses. You bind the soul to the body and get a zombie which may eventually rebel against you, or do a more thorough ritual that kills a person and makes them into a ghost-thing loyal to you. She could have a home-made undead Praetorian Guard.

  4. - Top - End - #244
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    Default Re: Let's vote up another Burning Wheel Character!

    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeGuitarrem View Post
    Except that I did some hunting around on the BW forums to make sure; turns out that my ruling is reversed. Word of God (or close enough, another one of the forum masters who is at BWHQ, I believe) states that skills open at Grey if the root stat is Grey, no matter if it's at character creation. Which is good news, because Oratory is rooted in Will!
    That's kind of a huge deal. Did they list a page number, or some kind of rationale for this? I was under the same impression you were.

  5. - Top - End - #245
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Let's vote up another Burning Wheel Character!

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    That's kind of a huge deal. Did they list a page number, or some kind of rationale for this? I was under the same impression you were.
    Cached thread is here, the normal BW site appears to be down.

    No specific explanation given, other than that's presumably how it's intended to be played. I've come to suspect that Luke has a very clear idea of Burning Wheel, and he doesn't always write things out clearly.
    Ludicrus Gaming | My Steam Account
    Quote Originally Posted by Saph
    Unless everyone's been lying to me and the next bunch of episodes are The Great Divide II, The Great Divide III, Return to the Great Divide, and Bride of the Great Divide, in which case I hate you all and I'm never touching Avatar again.

  6. - Top - End - #246
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Let's vote up another Burning Wheel Character!

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    That's kind of a huge deal. Did they list a page number, or some kind of rationale for this? I was under the same impression you were.
    I don't really know the rules, but it makes an awful lot of sense to to me.
    If you increase you stats, all your skills based of them increase, if you increase your shade, all your skills shades increase.
    Why would it be any other way? Obviously the game needs rules to be able to have a higher shade skill without having the corresponding stat high shaded, therefore there is a rule to open grey skills without a grey stat.
    I see no contradiction or ambiguity in these rules whatsoever.

    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeGuitarrem View Post
    So, are you all onboard to use up all 9 points? Alternately, would everyone just be willing for me to distribute all the skill points according to the order in which they were voted for? (That's the listed order.)
    1 Sure go for it, I like chars with lots of skills and everybody want these.
    2 Not possible, we only voted on skills that weren't automatically gained from the lifepaths so doing this would neglect those skills.
    What I think we should do is make a list with all the open skills and then give everybody a chance to vote on the skills they want heightened, maybe 2-3 lifepath skills and 1 general skill?
    Last edited by Fenix_of_Doom; 2012-11-04 at 06:59 AM.
    Schrödinger cat? Schrödinger wizard? Schrödinger monk?
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  7. - Top - End - #247
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Let's vote up another Burning Wheel Character!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenix_of_Doom View Post
    I don't really know the rules, but it makes an awful lot of sense to to me.
    If you increase you stats, all your skills based of them increase, if you increase your shade, all your skills shades increase.
    Why would it be any other way? Obviously the game needs rules to be able to have a higher shade skill without having the corresponding stat high shaded, therefore there is a rule to open grey skills without a grey stat.
    I see no contradiction or ambiguity in these rules whatsoever.
    Well that is not 100% true. If i advance my b5 Agility to b6 i don't get extra exponents to my agility based skills. When i open up another agility based skill however it starts at 3 and not at 2.
    If my agilty goes gray all skills that i will then open will open gray too. The old skills will stay the same.
    Quote Originally Posted by kyoryu View Post
    I swear, about 50% of what makes BW awesome is the little stuff like that that's applicable to just about any system.

  8. - Top - End - #248
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Let's vote up another Burning Wheel Character!

    Quote Originally Posted by Siegel View Post
    Well that is not 100% true. If i advance my b5 Agility to b6 i don't get extra exponents to my agility based skills. When i open up another agility based skill however it starts at 3 and not at 2.
    If my agilty goes gray all skills that i will then open will open gray too. The old skills will stay the same.
    And if you raise one of your stats to grey during play, you don't raise all your associated skills to grey.
    Consistency?
    Schrödinger cat? Schrödinger wizard? Schrödinger monk?
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    The best summary of this board I've seen so far:
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  9. - Top - End - #249
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Let's vote up another Burning Wheel Character!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenix_of_Doom View Post
    And if you raise one of your stats to grey during play, you don't raise all your associated skills to grey.
    Consistency?
    But if you open a up a new skill you can benefit from your new abilities. I think this is consistent. Skills open at the Shade and half Exponent of the stat they are rooted in. Fairly consistent.
    Quote Originally Posted by kyoryu View Post
    I swear, about 50% of what makes BW awesome is the little stuff like that that's applicable to just about any system.

  10. - Top - End - #250
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Let's vote up another Burning Wheel Character!

    Quote Originally Posted by Siegel View Post
    But if you open a up a new skill you can benefit from your new abilities. I think this is consistent. Skills open at the Shade and half Exponent of the stat they are rooted in. Fairly consistent.
    We are in agreement, what I was saying in my first post was that during character creation(didn't mention this, but I considered it obvious) changing your stats changes your skills and in my second post I addressed your issue that during play changing your stats does not change your skills.
    This goes for both height and shade and is therefore consistent, if it would only have worked that way for height, then that would have been an odd inconsistency.
    Schrödinger cat? Schrödinger wizard? Schrödinger monk?
    What's next? Schrödinger equation? HΨ=EΨ? Seriously WTF?


    The best summary of this board I've seen so far:
    Quote Originally Posted by Frigs View Post
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  11. - Top - End - #251
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Let's vote up another Burning Wheel Character!

    For the next general skill to open, I nominate The Most AwesomeTM Thing to Do In a Given Situation-wise.

    ...What?
    Revan avatar by kaptainkrutch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrylius View Post
    That's how wizards beta test their new animals. If it survives Australia, it's a go. Which in hindsight explains a LOT about Australia.

  12. - Top - End - #252
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: Let's vote up another Burning Wheel Character!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sith_Happens View Post
    For the next general skill to open, I nominate The Most AwesomeTM Thing to Do In a Given Situation-wise.

    ...What?
    I already tried Rules-wise and got shot down.
    Quote Originally Posted by GungHo, on Battletech
    The Atlas is also goofy but it has that whole "Stay Puft Marshmallow Man" menacing smile thing going for it. The guy who drew that one up was obviously taken to the Nutcracker when he was a child... and he was screaming in terror the entire time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enterti, Cogidubnus
    Glyphstone, out of all the playground I think you scare me the most...
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombimode
    Glyphstone, you are an evil person :D

  13. - Top - End - #253
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Let's vote up another Burning Wheel Character!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    I already tried Rules-wise and got shot down.
    That's because there's no reasonable way for a character to know the game rules. It is perfectly possible, on the other hand, for a character to be well versed in the science of Awesometude.
    Revan avatar by kaptainkrutch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrylius View Post
    That's how wizards beta test their new animals. If it survives Australia, it's a go. Which in hindsight explains a LOT about Australia.

  14. - Top - End - #254
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Let's vote up another Burning Wheel Character!

    I second taking awesome-wise, this character is made from awesome, surely she can recognise it?!?
    Schrödinger cat? Schrödinger wizard? Schrödinger monk?
    What's next? Schrödinger equation? HΨ=EΨ? Seriously WTF?


    The best summary of this board I've seen so far:
    Quote Originally Posted by Frigs View Post
    Giantitp: The only place you can turn a discussion on D&D Economics into an argument about toxic potatoes.

  15. - Top - End - #255
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: Let's vote up another Burning Wheel Character!

    Wises aside, I think this character should have Command (no use being Oratory-awesome if you can't give orders in combat), and Tree Ripping, because having a special technique just for ripping out entire trees at their roots is awesome.
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2012-11-04 at 08:45 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by GungHo, on Battletech
    The Atlas is also goofy but it has that whole "Stay Puft Marshmallow Man" menacing smile thing going for it. The guy who drew that one up was obviously taken to the Nutcracker when he was a child... and he was screaming in terror the entire time.
    Spoiler
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enterti, Cogidubnus
    Glyphstone, out of all the playground I think you scare me the most...
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombimode
    Glyphstone, you are an evil person :D

  16. - Top - End - #256
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Let's vote up another Burning Wheel Character!

    Awesome-wise is already assumed to be given out for free, though it doesn't count as a FoRK. See, Awesome-wise, like Rules-wise, is a player skill, and cannot be transferred to a character.

    I'll wade through the various skill votes. I think we've probably got another round of skill voting to do, given all the scattered suggestions...
    Ludicrus Gaming | My Steam Account
    Quote Originally Posted by Saph
    Unless everyone's been lying to me and the next bunch of episodes are The Great Divide II, The Great Divide III, Return to the Great Divide, and Bride of the Great Divide, in which case I hate you all and I'm never touching Avatar again.

  17. - Top - End - #257
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Let's vote up another Burning Wheel Character!

    Okay, so. Based on something I mentioned below, here's some skill-spending. Does this look good to people?

    B2 Spears +3
    G3 Intimidation +3
    B3 Name Ritual +2
    B3 Clan-wise +2
    G3 Riding +2
    G3 Great Wolf Husbandry +2
    N/A Shield Training +2
    ?? Brutal Intimidation +2

    We also need to vote on General skills from the following list. I need two votes for different skills. We'll use three points to open Oratory and two other skills, and then boost Oratory and the top-voted General skill from below. (If you'd like to instead super-boost Oratory, let me know. We could give all the spare points to it, or forego getting a third skill.)

    General Skills
    Accounting, Rumor-wise, Doctrine (I forget what the particular subskill was), Falsehood, Throwing, Tree-Ripping...

    I believe that Glyphstone mentioned Command, which is actually a required skill. Oops. I forgot to bring those up. Brawling, Command, and Strategy have already been opened and can be advanced. Are we fine with devoting three points to each? More or less on one of them? (That'd leave 20ish points to distribute amongst the nine opened skills above, which is what my calculations are from. I'll precisely calculate out when I get back home. If there's a spare skill point going around, it's going in Spears.)

    Votes Required -- A Summary
    1. Vote for up to two General skills; let me know if Oratory should get all of the spare skill points.
    2. Let me know if you're okay with the skill distribution I set forth.
    3. Should we give three points each to Brawling, Command, and Strategy?
    Ludicrus Gaming | My Steam Account
    Quote Originally Posted by Saph
    Unless everyone's been lying to me and the next bunch of episodes are The Great Divide II, The Great Divide III, Return to the Great Divide, and Bride of the Great Divide, in which case I hate you all and I'm never touching Avatar again.

  18. - Top - End - #258
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Let's vote up another Burning Wheel Character!

    1. Rumor-wise and, if I can vote for it flat out, Oratory. If that not how that works, replace it with Doctrine, and Oratory gets the spare points.

    2. I am okay with the current skills.

    3. Yes.
    A gracious thanks to Bradakhan for the avatar, and Time Walk's card artist, Amy Weber.

    0 There was first nothingness. But nothingness roiled with possibility, as existence cannot be held by one fact, not even the empty fact.

    Last edited by Sodalite : Today at 12:00 AM.

  19. - Top - End - #259
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Let's vote up another Burning Wheel Character!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sodalite View Post
    1. Rumor-wise and, if I can vote for it flat out, Oratory. If that not how that works, replace it with Doctrine, and Oratory gets the spare points.
    If you want, you can just vote for one General skill. That'd mean that Oratory remains the most-boosted General skill (because that's what consensus seems to be here). Is that what you mean to do?
    Ludicrus Gaming | My Steam Account
    Quote Originally Posted by Saph
    Unless everyone's been lying to me and the next bunch of episodes are The Great Divide II, The Great Divide III, Return to the Great Divide, and Bride of the Great Divide, in which case I hate you all and I'm never touching Avatar again.

  20. - Top - End - #260
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Let's vote up another Burning Wheel Character!

    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeGuitarrem
    Votes Required -- A Summary
    Vote for up to two General skills; let me know if Oratory should get all of the spare skill points.
    Let me know if you're okay with the skill distribution I set forth.
    Should we give three points each to Brawling, Command, and Strategy?
    1. All Oratory, all the time.
    2. I would prefer more Clan-wise, less Spears, personally.
    3. I would prefer to add only 1 to Brawling and more to Command and Strategy. She's managed to avoid any serious scars, which tells me she's better at outmaneuvering her enemies, not out-fighting them.
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  21. - Top - End - #261
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: Let's vote up another Burning Wheel Character!

    Oratory, and Tree-Ripping.
    Quote Originally Posted by GungHo, on Battletech
    The Atlas is also goofy but it has that whole "Stay Puft Marshmallow Man" menacing smile thing going for it. The guy who drew that one up was obviously taken to the Nutcracker when he was a child... and he was screaming in terror the entire time.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Enterti, Cogidubnus
    Glyphstone, out of all the playground I think you scare me the most...
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombimode
    Glyphstone, you are an evil person :D

  22. - Top - End - #262
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Let's vote up another Burning Wheel Character!

    How is her speed? You need a good speed to keep the advantage of the spear reach...
    Quote Originally Posted by kyoryu View Post
    I swear, about 50% of what makes BW awesome is the little stuff like that that's applicable to just about any system.

  23. - Top - End - #263
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    CarpeGuitarrem's Avatar

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    Default Re: Let's vote up another Burning Wheel Character!

    Quote Originally Posted by Siegel View Post
    How is her speed? You need a good speed to keep the advantage of the spear reach...
    B5, so quite good in general. (Good point. I love the way the Engagement test abstracts this stuff.)
    Ludicrus Gaming | My Steam Account
    Quote Originally Posted by Saph
    Unless everyone's been lying to me and the next bunch of episodes are The Great Divide II, The Great Divide III, Return to the Great Divide, and Bride of the Great Divide, in which case I hate you all and I'm never touching Avatar again.

  24. - Top - End - #264
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Let's vote up another Burning Wheel Character!

    Quote Originally Posted by Siegel View Post
    How is her speed? You need a good speed to keep the advantage of the spear reach...
    Why do we need speed when the big wolf we'll be riding has speed?
    Speaking about mounts, what do we do with mounted combat? Is that also a skill we only have to open to use?

    on to the voting:
    1. I'd like some more general skills, but I can't find any to suggest, so I vote blank and join the bandwagon before it's even there.
    2. I'd like some more in spears, especially since our agility is relatively low, the rest looks fine to me.
    3. command and strategy, yes, brawling 1 extra point would do IMO.
    Schrödinger cat? Schrödinger wizard? Schrödinger monk?
    What's next? Schrödinger equation? HΨ=EΨ? Seriously WTF?


    The best summary of this board I've seen so far:
    Quote Originally Posted by Frigs View Post
    Giantitp: The only place you can turn a discussion on D&D Economics into an argument about toxic potatoes.

  25. - Top - End - #265
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Let's vote up another Burning Wheel Character!

    My current bandwagon predictions: pure Oratory, or Oratory and Tree-Ripping, given that Glyphstone seems to be a trendsetter quite often.
    A gracious thanks to Bradakhan for the avatar, and Time Walk's card artist, Amy Weber.

    0 There was first nothingness. But nothingness roiled with possibility, as existence cannot be held by one fact, not even the empty fact.

    Last edited by Sodalite : Today at 12:00 AM.

  26. - Top - End - #266
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    Default Re: Let's vote up another Burning Wheel Character!

    1) Oratory, Lots and lots of Oratory
    2) Seems Fine
    3) Only spend one point on advancing Brawl, spend the other two points to advance Command even more.
    Last edited by Sanguine; 2012-11-05 at 01:32 PM.
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  27. - Top - End - #267
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    Griffon

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    Default Re: Let's vote up another Burning Wheel Character!

    1. I'll vote again for Rumor-wise, just because I brought it up.
    2. The skill selection seems fine to me.
    3. Yes, especially strategy.
    Originally Posted by Xefas:
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  28. - Top - End - #268
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    Default Re: Let's vote up another Burning Wheel Character!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenix_of_Doom View Post
    Speaking about mounts, what do we do with mounted combat? Is that also a skill we only have to open to use?
    Any Training skills (Mounted Combat Training, Shield Training, Armor Training) cost two points to open (already factored into my calculations), are never rolled, and do not advance. They basically "unlock" the ability to do stuff. i.e., you must open Mounted Combat Training for mounted combat.
    Ludicrus Gaming | My Steam Account
    Quote Originally Posted by Saph
    Unless everyone's been lying to me and the next bunch of episodes are The Great Divide II, The Great Divide III, Return to the Great Divide, and Bride of the Great Divide, in which case I hate you all and I'm never touching Avatar again.

  29. - Top - End - #269
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    Default Re: Let's vote up another Burning Wheel Character!

    We need additional Oratory.
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  30. - Top - End - #270
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Let's vote up another Burning Wheel Character!

    Oratory, Command, and Strategy.
    Also, Shield training. What the feck? We want this character to have defensive options, and that one never costs us more to improve. Plus Spear/Shield is an awesome style, as evidenced by Spartans.

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