Results 1 to 29 of 29
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Binding Elder Evils: A miniguide

    Binding Elder Evils
    The Elder Evils are designed to act as living apocalypses; things from outside of the normal rules of reality who are meant to be the centers of entire campaigns. Many of them are Outsiders, however, and can be bound by a hero or villain with more bravery than sense. From a flavor point of view they are wonderful binds, evoking a sense of Lovecraftian madness.

    Elder Evils have several useful traits in common, including maximized HD and a number of immunities. Maximized HD are especially nice for a caster binding outsiders, as it grants them significant HP despite relatively low HD (some of them have extremely high HD, and are outside of this mini-guide.) They are also universally anti-divine, thematically and mechanically. This makes them unlikely for a divine caster to gain one through Planar Ally, but does not prevent an arcane caster from binding them. It should also be noted that divine casters may not accept binding such a creature, as it is to their detriment and the Elder Evil is likely out to eat their god.

    The Hulks of Zoretha and Zargon the Returner are callable by a normal caster using Greater Planar Binding pre-epic, while the Aspect of Sertrous and Father Llymic can be called using the spell Implore (Dragon Magazine #336).

    The Hulks of Zoretha

    Spoiler
    Show
    General overview:
    The Hulks of Zoretha are eternal. They come from before the memory of any race (even the Aboleths?) and have 16 HD a piece, putting them within the reach of a Greater Planar Binding. There are four elements (female only) and 2 sexes to pick from, with the male being a flying ranged monster and the females being ground bound bruisers. All of the Hulks are huge in size, and if you bind them you can make Hulk Smash references.

    Pros:

    Male: Flies at a reasonable clip, although it is clumsy. Spike routine has automatic poison and a chance for 8d6 SA. Can summon a Displacer Beast Pack Lord once per day, and it lasts all day (effectively a mini-animal companion). Armor Class of 44 makes it hard to hit, and combines well with its DR 10/Epic. High knowledge scores make it useful if you need to know something.

    Female: Maximized HD and a high constitution make the Female Hulks quite tanky. A high strength score makes them decent grapplers, and their debuffing abilities are decentish (swift actions which are not named effects, and thus get around immunities but low DCs). A very low charisma score also makes them relatively easy to bind. Have a decentish summoning ability.

    Cons:

    Male: Ranged attack routine has a low to-hit, so it is unlikely to kill anything. Melee routine is ironically better, but low damage keeps it from shining in melee (3 attacks and some poison does not a melee beast make).

    Female: Initiative of 0 makes them unlikely to be relevant in the early phases of a fight. Forces divine casters to make a save each night or take constitution damage and be unable to refill spells, so if you have a divine caster friend they will hate you (but you knew that). Iterative slam routine makes the likelihood of hitting more than twice a round very low.

    Evaluation:

    The males seem to be lacking a niche to fill. They have the possibility of being good in ranged combat, but their to-hit is just too low to hit reliably. No greater invisibility or hide in plain sight means its SA is only going to work in melee while flanking, which it isnít really built to do.
    The females are straight tanks, with high HP and strength. They donít have much to-hit either, but at least they are built for their roles. Use it to bulrush or grapple something else and keep them out of the fight.
    Neither male or female Hulks are much use out of combat, lacking SLAs. They also create a blood moon which drives everything on the planet into a rage if they do not meet a Will save, but this may not be such a bad thing. The females are extremely easy to bind, so choosing them as body guards may be a cheap alternative to a Runic Guardian or the like.



    Zargon the Returner
    Spoiler
    Show
    General Overview:
    Zargon the Returner is the original ruler of Hell (back when it was Baator), but was driven away in disgrace by Asmodeus. Zargon also has 18 HD, putting it in the reach of a none-Malconvoker GPB! He, like the Hulks, is huge sized. No flying, alas, but he has an okay land and water movement.

    Pros:

    Has a massive attack routine (14 attacks, including 12 primary attacks) backed by a terrific strength score (50 Str). Has a correspondingly large grapple bonus and improved grab on his many tentacles, so if something needs grappling it is your eldritch horror. Zargon has reasonable to-hit, and can actually hit things with its gigantic pile of natural attacks.

    Zargon also has a regeneration of 50 except to cold and fire, which is bound to its horn. The horn can be removed by enemies, but this doesnít hurt or kill Zargon. Zargon has the ability to summon Corrupters, a special type of ooze, and can spew forth slime. The slime can pollute creatures, which is like a super poison. However its effects are only on successive days, so the ability does little to help in direct combat.

    Has actual SLAs, although the best of them is Freedom of Movement at-will. Can also be used to make a giant army of Whelps of Zargon, so it does okay at minionmancy.

    Cons:
    The biggest problem with Zargon as a bind is Divine Enervation, which prevents every divine caster within 100 miles from regaining spells. If you have divine caster buddies, this is going to mess up your day. The second largest issue is Zargon the Returner is amazingly charismatic for a giant horned-slug monster. You are likely going to need to wreck its charisma score if you want to beat its check, and you might want to have a spellthief friend steal its Freedom of Movement SLA to keep it in its Magic Circle against Evil.
    In combat Zargon has a problem reaching its foes, as it cannot fly. Having it fight in a tunnel or granting it flight fixes this to a point, but it still lacks relevant ranged abilities. Zargon the Returner is also mostly useless outside of combat, as it cannot teleport and has only one none combat SLA (Stone to Mud).

    Sign:

    Zargon the Returnerís sign is part of its stat block, so calling it will likely bring the signsí effects. This sign consists of terrible weather, which may be in your favor (as it will force enemies out of the sky and into Zargonís tentacles).

    Evaluation:

    Zargon the Returner is a brute in melee combat, and cannot be used to make a decent minion army. Binding it is going to be a hassle, as its charisma score is high. I would pick Zargon over a Balor or Pit Fiend, but it is going to require some items or buffs to truly shine. Flight and energy resistance to fire and cold will make Zargon really shine, but it may be too much investment for a bind.


    Aspect of Sertrous
    Spoiler
    Show

    General Overview:
    A cast down demon lord and possible creator of the Yuan-ti, Sertrous is an Obyrith serpent and an Elder Evil. The Aspect of Sertrous has 23 HD, which means that calling it requires Implore. He is the largest bindable Elder Evil, gargantuan in size and hideous in aspect.

    Pros:

    Blindsight 500 ft. makes the Aspect of Sertrous the ultimate detection device, as everything without the Darkstalker feat is going to shine like the fourth of july.

    The Aspect of Sertrous has a high grapple modifier and decent strength, which with smaller opponents can allow him to use his Souldrink ability. This drains 3d6 charisma, and opponents who are drained down to 1 are automatically dominated without a save. He also has heaps of HP and a fair AC, so death will not easily retake him. Fly as an at-will SLA (finally!) allows him to get up where he is needed, although his SLAs on the whole are too ubiquitous to praise him for.

    Poisonerís Breath is an amazing ability, removing enemyís immunity to poison with no save in a huge radius around him. This synergizes with Sertrousí many poison abilities, and is the only way I know of to overcome poison immunity. Your assassin buddy will love you.

    The Aspect of Sertrous is also immune to all divine magic, but does not inhibit it. This means he is the first divine friendly Elder Evil bind, since the others mess with the divine casters in at least one way.

    Cons:

    Sertrous is gargantuan, which makes him hard to use in tunnel environments (it is Dungeons & Dragons after all.) He also has a weak attack routine, with only four attacks (three of which are secondary attacks). Tremendous HP and decent strength aside, Sertrous isnít going to win the face smashing competition.

    Form of Madness sucks. If the party is high enough level to gain Sertrous services, then they are high enough level that everything under the sun is immune to fear effects. Except possibly the party, since those immunities are part of the daily buffs. There are plenty of solutions to this, but it is an annoyance.

    Pretty bland SLA list. It can take itself and you places, and it can poison things, but that is the limit of its magical abilities.

    Sign:ďI am sick of all of the ---- snakes on this ----plane!Ē
    Attributed to the Queen of Chaos

    Sertrousí sign is that a lot of snakes appear. Lots and lots of snakes. Naga, Mariliths, hydras, snakes. If it looks like a snake, and slithers like a snake, then Sertrous brings it to the table. Another good binding for a plane of existence you do not really care about. Besides, the Abyss could use more snakes!

    Evaluation:

    The Aspect of Sertrous is a bit of a mixed bag. Form of Madness is terrible, but Poisonerís Breath is a unique mechanic that reopens a door closed levels ago. Sertrous has better HP than most bind worthy beasts, but has a tiny attack routine which doesnít take advantage of his strength scores. He has a high grapple, but grappling sucks at this level and he barely exceeds that of a Colossal Monstrous Spider (which you can get with a summon). Zargon is more difficult to bind, but it doesnít require obscure spells to call and would waste Sertrous in a melee battle. Take Sertrous if you want to be the only kid on the block who can still get away with using poisons, and skip him otherwise.


    Father Llymic
    Spoiler
    Show
    General Overview:
    A denizen of the Far Realm sprung into an incompatible world, Father Llymic is a thing of freezing darkness and shadowed ice. He has 24 HD, which puts him within the realm of the spell Implore. Father Llymic is huge in size, and has the most terrifying sign of the bindable Elder Evils.

    Pros:

    Father Llymic is perhaps the ultimate callable minionmancer. His ability Summon Brood is flat broken, as it allows him to summon 3 24 HD monsters a day and they last forever. These summons have the Brood Spawn template applied, which takes away their special abilities and replaces them with indifferent ones, but it allows them to keep their stats (with a boost) and natural attacks.

    The Shivhad from Frostburn is the perfect summon; 9 natural attacks, good movement abilities, lots of strength, gargantuan, and completely under Father Llymicís command. Basically you can bind Father Llymic and give him a week to get you 504 HD of monsters that will never go away.

    Father Llymicís Soul Chill ability is also good; negative ice levels that seem to bypass immunities and create Brood Spawn out of anything he kills with them. He can apply this without a save with each natural attack, and has a decent to-hit. These negative levels are also very difficult to get rid of, and can be used to create entire empires of Brood Spawn.

    Father Llymic can also fly, albeit slowly, and has an assortment of ice based SLAs.

    Cons:

    Comparably poor HP to the other Elder Evils. At the level of investment you are putting into him, Father Llymic could at least be able to tank a few hits. Has few natural attacks with which to apply Soul Chill, and doesnít do great damage outside of it.

    Father Llymic is also extremely weak against sonic and light spells, to the point where he could be brought down easily under certain circumstances. He doesnít make up for these weaknesses with good SLAs or fantastic melee.
    Deadly Chill is Father Llymicís version of Form of Madness. Basically an enervation field, it is going to be most effective against your own party.

    There is also an effect known as Brood Fever which does this overnight, and has no bearing on anyone but an allied party. Why would anyone sleep close enough to an awakened Elder Evil to be effected by it unless they were allies?
    Reasonably high charisma makes this a difficult bind, but not much more so than a Balor.

    Sign: Dead Sun

    Father Llymicís sign is truly apocalyptic. The world becomes bathed in total darkness, which enhances darkness spells and blocks most light abilities. The world also freezes over in an unnatural ice age, and the sun is blocked out of the sky. Keep him on an evil Plane or a barren world, because wherever you take him is going to be ruined.


    Evaluation:

    Father Llymic is a minionmancer amongst minionmancers and the ender of worlds, but can do little else. Too fragile for high level melee, magic that basically applies easily resisted ice effects, and he debuffs the party to boot. The best use for Father Llymic is to stick him in a Portable Hole so he cannot affect the world around him (pocket dimension!) and pull him out once a day to make you more troopers. The drawbacks of Father Llymic, like those of the other Elder Evils, would make me hesitant to use him outside of an Abyssal or Hell campaign. If I am going to assault a demonlord in his lair, Father Llymic with his ice armies is perfect. Otherwise leave him locked in a glacier.


    Spoiler
    Show

    General Overview
    The chief minion of Tharizdun (Temple of Elemental Evil,) Shothragot can be found on an online article here. It has 20 HD, so Malconvokers and up can bind it. Gargantuan in size, and colossal in power!

    Pros
    There are several benefits to binding Shothragot. It can summon four CR 18 creatures called Black Cysts a day, who are apparently permanent. The ability is a spell-like one, but while it refers to being a ninth level spell it does not call back to summon spells. That's right, you get 4 CR 18 bodyguards every day by binding Shothragot. The Black Cysts will be discussed more in their own subsection.

    Shothragot is immensely strong and has an okay natural attack routine (4 tentacles and a bite.) The bite is okay, but the tentacles are pure gold. Each time an opponent is hit by one they have to make a Fort save or lose all of their equipment, their movement drops to 10, cannot cast spells, and get a 50% miss chance. Save or Suck indeed!

    Shothragot is slightly worse at spell casting than melee combat. A long list of bland SLAs does not a great caster make. To make up for its weaker casting, Shothragot gets a laundry list of immunities and special abilities. It has an EX immunity to all force effects, including the ability to move through walls of force and forcecages at will. Trueseeing as an EX is nice, as is the complete immunity to divine scrying.

    Cons
    Shothragot has an extremely high Charisma score, and it has Freedom of Movement as an EX ability. A high spell resistance also makes its check against being trapped very high. You will have to hit it instantly with the spell Trait Removal (getting through its spell resistance,) make sure it fails its check to get out of your trap, and then debuff its Charisma score until you can win an opposed charisma check.

    Shothragot's sign messes with your bread and butter (especially if you are playing as a Malconcoker.)

    Weak spellcasting, focused too much on blasting spells.

    Black Cysts
    The Black Cysts have 33 HD each, so it adds up to 924 HD worth of permanent minions a week (or 9600 HP.) Each one is CR 18, and generates its own Elder Elemental companion when injured. 8 tentacle attacks a turn, fairly strong, perfect flying, and a great hide check.

    Having hundreds of them sounds cool, but they have a major drawback. Their Warping Aura is a major debuff which automatically forces all living creatures around them to make a save. They won't do much for you in a traditional dungeon setting as a result, but as an invading force they are perfect.

    Sign of the Apocalypse
    Begins by impeding divination spells and summoning, calling and teleportation conjuration spells. It ends with Clerics having a 20% chance of losing each spell slot when trying to get spells each morning, and all of the conjuration subtypes mentioned automatically failing. In an odd way this is the easiest of all of the Signs to deal with, as you have a summoning super monster with you already. And angry gods cannot order hits on you, as your plane of existence is sealed off.

    Evaluation
    Shothragot is the strongest of the Elder Evils, and the hardest to bind. In combat it should be more than capable of defeating the worst of opponents by layering debuffs on them, and it comes with its own army! Use cautiously, as it debuffs your divine friends and upsets the very cosmological order itself.


    Acknowledgements: Count (also known as 123456789blaaa) helped me finish this handbook, and provided me with the use of Trait Removal to deal with the Essence of Shothragot. Originally inspired by Gnorman's Practical Demonkeeping.
    Last edited by Tvtyrant; 2013-08-06 at 09:26 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    eggs's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2012

    Default Re: Binding Elder Evils

    Cool thread. I never looked further into that book's binds than the one listed in Practical Demonkeeping.

    Some of these Cons sound like they could make strong selling points.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Binding Elder Evils

    Agreed. The best use for them IMO is to call them while in evil planes, since they effect everything in their area. You can hardly get called out for the collateral if you take Zargon into Hell or the Abyss. Keeps the signs and divine blocking from ruining your home world.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2012

    Default Re: Binding Elder Evils

    Wow, I never thought of that.

    My Malconvoker just **** himself.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Binding Elder Evils

    Just tragic you can't get the better Elder Evils. Pandorym would be amazing! "Why yes, my bodyguard is a giant living Sphere of Annihilation."

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Alleran's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010

    Default Re: Binding Elder Evils

    Interesting. I never thought of binding the Elder Evils before. It's also odd that some of them have such ridiculously high HD. Pandorym has fifty, the Aspect of Atropus has sixty-six, and so on. Short of a gate spell (for which they are not required to respond), I don't think it's possible to summon them pre-epic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slipperychicken View Post
    I guess this forum is some kind of mystical afterlife for dnd nerds who die during internet discussions? All the greatest internet heroes argue here every day about physics and dnd, rise again when slain, and enjoy a dining hall which serves them unlimited quantities of heavenly food like ramen, soda, alcohol, and birthday cake.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Tippy View Post
    Yes, the underwear of my epic wizards are more than capable of conquering your average world on their own.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Arcanist's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Warlock's Crypt, Orbedal
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Binding Elder Evils

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Just tragic you can't get the better Elder Evils. Pandorym would be amazing! "Why yes, my bodyguard is a giant living Sphere of Annihilation."
    Oh god... If someone is able to bind Pandorym then not even Stuffy Doll can stop him

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Alleran's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010

    Default Re: Binding Elder Evils

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanist View Post
    Oh god... If someone is able to bind Pandorym then not even Stuffy Doll can stop him
    Unless you know of a method by which you can rack up a 50 HD total with planar binding or Implore, I don't think it should be too much of an issue. Even a 10th level Cosmic Descryer (so 30th level or thereabouts) with full Malconvoker levels and Infernal Bargainer can only reach 40 HD with their binding spells (assuming Implore counts for a CD).
    Quote Originally Posted by Slipperychicken View Post
    I guess this forum is some kind of mystical afterlife for dnd nerds who die during internet discussions? All the greatest internet heroes argue here every day about physics and dnd, rise again when slain, and enjoy a dining hall which serves them unlimited quantities of heavenly food like ramen, soda, alcohol, and birthday cake.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Tippy View Post
    Yes, the underwear of my epic wizards are more than capable of conquering your average world on their own.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    Feb 2009

    Default Re: Binding Elder Evils

    It makes them weaker, but how about instead of higher HD for Planar Binding, weaker Elder Evil?

    AFB, so I don't know if it works:
    Wish-Travel to Location
    Trait Removal via spell or Knowledge Affiliation, to make Pandorym vulnerable to negative levels
    High DC, Twinned etc. Energy Drain. Drain Pandorym down to the max HD as outlined by Alleran.
    By clicking this link, you open a pop-up, but I get a eurocent for my current wish, the 5th book of the Wheel of Time series. Please note that this only works if you leave the pop-up open until it has finished loading. Thank you!

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Madara's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Up north, dontcha' know
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Binding Elder Evils

    This should be in the homebrew section, but otherwise it looks cool.

    Edity-MC Edit: Apperently it shouldn't.
    Last edited by Madara; 2012-10-19 at 07:30 AM.
    Quotes:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Hashmir View Post
    When I die, I donate my body to the cause of whatever ******* finds it first.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodgruve View Post
    Really though, how effin scary would the beach be if an octopus could launch itself outta the water at a 200' move speed every 6 seconds. I'd never go to the beach again... I thought flying sharks were scary...
    Blood~

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Troll in the Playground
     
    DMofDarkness's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Binding Elder Evils

    Quote Originally Posted by Madara View Post
    This should be in the homebrew section, but otherwise it looks cool.
    It actually shouldn't. These are the actual stats for the Elder Evils, which you can call with Greater Planar Binding or Implore. This is just a reference for the benefits you get when you call them. This is exploitation of the RAW; definitely this subforum.
    Last edited by DMofDarkness; 2012-10-19 at 07:26 AM.
    Xykon avatar by Elagune.
    Spoiler: Collection of Signature Quotes
    Show

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Madara's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Up north, dontcha' know
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Binding Elder Evils

    Quote Originally Posted by DMofDarkness View Post
    It actually shouldn't. These are the actual stats for the Elder Evils, which you can call with Greater Planar Binding or Implore. This is just a reference for the benefits you get when you call them. This is exploitation of the RAW; definitely this subforum.
    Since when are there actual stats for the Elder Evils? Happy Halloween I suppose.
    Quotes:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Hashmir View Post
    When I die, I donate my body to the cause of whatever ******* finds it first.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodgruve View Post
    Really though, how effin scary would the beach be if an octopus could launch itself outta the water at a 200' move speed every 6 seconds. I'd never go to the beach again... I thought flying sharks were scary...
    Blood~

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Alleran's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010

    Default Re: Binding Elder Evils

    Quote Originally Posted by Madara View Post
    Since when are there actual stats for the Elder Evils? Happy Halloween I suppose.
    Since they had a book devoted to them called Elder Evils.

    There's another one (20HD) that appears in Dungeon #153 or so (one of the pre-4E digital ones). It might be worth looking at.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slipperychicken View Post
    I guess this forum is some kind of mystical afterlife for dnd nerds who die during internet discussions? All the greatest internet heroes argue here every day about physics and dnd, rise again when slain, and enjoy a dining hall which serves them unlimited quantities of heavenly food like ramen, soda, alcohol, and birthday cake.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Tippy View Post
    Yes, the underwear of my epic wizards are more than capable of conquering your average world on their own.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kelb_Panthera's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2009

    Default Re: Binding Elder Evils

    This shouldn't need to be said, but you never know when newbs are about.

    It may be RAW legal, but this is likely to result in books with ballistic trajectories if you try to actually try it in a game. Some DM's will be cool with it, but many won't.

    That said, this is certainly something I never thought of. Even if your DM lets it slide this just seems like a monumentally bad idea. The abilities some of these critters have wouldn't be unwelcome in play though.

    Btw, does anyone else think that the hulks of zoretha are just pitiful for what's supposed to be an elder evil?
    I am not seaweed. That's a B.

    Praise I've received
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell View Post
    Kelb, recently it looks like you're the Avatar of Reason in these forums, man.
    Quote Originally Posted by LTwerewolf View Post
    [...] bringing Kelb in on your side in a rules fight is like bringing Mike Tyson in on your side to fight a toddler. You can, but it's such massive overkill.
    A quick outline on building a homebrew campaign

    Avatar by Tiffanie Lirle

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Sith_Happens's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Dromund Kaas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Binding Elder Evils

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    Btw, does anyone else think that the hulks of zoretha are just pitiful for what's supposed to be an elder evil?
    Depends. The way I see it, the Hulks themselves aren't supposed to be the scary part. The scary part is the implication that there's much, much more where they came from.
    Revan avatar by kaptainkrutch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrylius View Post
    That's how wizards beta test their new animals. If it survives Australia, it's a go. Which in hindsight explains a LOT about Australia.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Banned
     
    ThiagoMartell's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Brazil
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Binding Elder Evils

    Great thread, will keep watching.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Starbuck_II's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Enterprise, Alabama
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Binding Elder Evils

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Binding Elder Evils
    The Elder Evils are designed to act as living apocalypses; things from outside of the normal rules of reality who are meant to be the centers of entire campaigns. Many of them are Outsiders, however, and can be bound by a hero or villain with more bravery than sense. From a flavor point of view they are wonderful binds, evoking a sense of Lovecraftian madness.

    Elder Evils have several useful traits in common, including maximized HD and a number of immunities. Maximized HD are especially nice for a caster binding outsiders, as it grants them significant HP despite relatively low HD (some of them have extremely high HD, and are outside of this mini-guide.) They are also universally anti-divine, thematically and mechanically. This makes them unlikely for a divine caster to gain one through Planar Ally, but does not prevent an arcane caster from binding them. It should also be noted that divine casters may not accept binding such a creature, as it is to their detriment and the Elder Evil is likely out to eat their god.

    The Hulks of Zoretha and Zargon the Returner are callable by a normal caster using Greater Planar Binding pre-epic, while the Aspect of Sertrous and Father Llymic can be called using the spell Implore (Dragon Magazine #336).
    Truenaming is required for Implore. So I'm not sure it is a possibility.

    Did you forget there are Elder Evils in Lords of Madness book?
    1) Batholomogg
    2) Holashner
    3) Pisceathces
    4) Shortotugg
    5) Y'chak

    Don't forget you can also Lesser Bind Brood spawn Ogres or Worgs (as they are presented as an option)

    How does anyone make the DC 39 Str check to remove the horn?
    You'd need a +19 Str bonus to have a chance on a 20...38 Str!

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Binding Elder Evils

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
    Truenaming is required for Implore. So I'm not sure it is a possibility.

    Did you forget there are Elder Evils in Lords of Madness book?
    1) Batholomogg
    2) Holashner
    3) Pisceathces
    4) Shortotugg
    5) Y'chak

    Don't forget you can also Lesser Bind Brood spawn Ogres or Worgs (as they are presented as an option)

    How does anyone make the DC 39 Str check to remove the horn?
    You'd need a +19 Str bonus to have a chance on a 20...38 Str!
    As far as I can tell the Lords of Madness Elder Evils do not have stat blocks, so you cannot bind them :C

    That will go under Father Llymic (I should have him done sometime tonight or tomorrow, job interview today).

    I think the Tarrasque or a great wyrm Gold Dragon could pull it off, but otherwise it is likely going to stay there. That was the biggest advantage of Zargon the Returner; he is all but immortal.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    TheGeckoKing's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    In a flying castle
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Binding Elder Evils

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
    Truenaming is required for Implore. So I'm not sure it is a possibility.
    Implore doesn't need any Truenaming.
    No, was thinking of GPB. My bad.
    Last edited by TheGeckoKing; 2012-10-19 at 04:21 PM.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Avvie by araveugnitsuga
    3DS Friend Code - 4098-2424-2486

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    eggs's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2012

    Default Re: Binding Elder Evils

    Are we supposed to assume that every mechanic referencing a Truename is talking about the same thing? (ie. Truespeak-based Truename research = Words of Creation truenames = Demonomicon of Igwhatshername truenames)

    If they do count as the same thing, researching a personal truename on these things isn't that hard. The highest DC should be 15+(Aspect of Sertrous CR = 22)*2+4 (probably counts as obscure, just to make things difficult) = DC 63. A wizard or sorcerer who wants to hit that shouldn't have too much trouble: CL 18 Moment of Prescience + Guidance of the Avatar (summon an artaaglith demon or something) + 10 ranks (crossclassed) + Greater Heroism + 10 Int = +62 modifier.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    123456789blaaa's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2011

    Default Re: Binding Elder Evils

    Quote Originally Posted by eggs View Post
    Are we supposed to assume that every mechanic referencing a Truename is talking about the same thing? (ie. Truespeak-based Truename research = Words of Creation truenames = Demonomicon of Igwhatshername truenames)

    If they do count as the same thing, researching a personal truename on these things isn't that hard. The highest DC should be 15+(Aspect of Sertrous CR = 22)*2+4 (probably counts as obscure, just to make things difficult) = DC 63. A wizard or sorcerer who wants to hit that shouldn't have too much trouble: CL 18 Moment of Prescience + Guidance of the Avatar (summon an artaaglith demon or something) + 10 ranks (crossclassed) + Greater Heroism + 10 Int = +62 modifier.
    It actually doesn't refer to ToM truenaming. The issue of dragon that implore is in came out before ToM and refers you to another issue of dragon (I can tell you which one if you want).

    Also, the OP is amazing. I never thought of that .
    Please, call me Count

    Thanks go to Shecky for the nickname and Serack for the avatar ^,..,^

    Proud member of the Purple court.

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Really though, you're looking at a shapeshifted angel of some sort getting all Discovery Channel about how exactly Friendship Is Magic.

    Please don't ask questions like this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fouredged Sword View Post
    It is fairly hard to render a body into a form a necromancer can't do SOMETHING with it. They are the Martha Stewart's of spellcasters.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Gnorman's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Seattle
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Binding Elder Evils

    Excellent work, Tvtyrant.

    Now I don't have to finish that section.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Binding Elder Evils

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnorman View Post
    Excellent work, Tvtyrant.

    Now I don't have to finish that section.
    Thank you! I rather like your guide and shamelessly stole was inspired by its formatting.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    California
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Binding Elder Evils: A miniguide

    Frenzied beserker or bear warrior around level 16 could get that horn off with a little luck and a careful build. +19 STR bonus means 48 strength. Totally doable with +11STR from items, +12 STR from an 18 strength score and leveling, +4 from your rage, + whatever for racial boost, + whatever if you changed your rage somehow, + from the million and one other places, +10-20 from the PRC. That's 47-57+X strength right there, nothing too crazy involved. Well, your rage turns you into a murderer or a bear, which is a touch crazy, but you know what I a mean.
    To anyone who thought Gandalf was dead: Don't you know, a wizard is never late?

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Alleran's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010

    Default Re: Binding Elder Evils

    Quote Originally Posted by 123456789blaaa View Post
    It actually doesn't refer to ToM truenaming. The issue of dragon that implore is in came out before ToM and refers you to another issue of dragon (I can tell you which one if you want).
    It's #317. However, to use one of the truenames given there, IIRC you have to take the feat that grants them, which no demon lords, archdevils, or really any by-the-book creatures have done. For practical purposes (and the added coolness of getting demon lords and archdevils), I'd take it as ToM truename mechanics instead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slipperychicken View Post
    I guess this forum is some kind of mystical afterlife for dnd nerds who die during internet discussions? All the greatest internet heroes argue here every day about physics and dnd, rise again when slain, and enjoy a dining hall which serves them unlimited quantities of heavenly food like ramen, soda, alcohol, and birthday cake.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Tippy View Post
    Yes, the underwear of my epic wizards are more than capable of conquering your average world on their own.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2013

    Default Re: Binding Elder Evils: A miniguide

    Zargon the Returner

    I like the picture...!!!
    In which movie it exist...!!!

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Nov 2010

    Default Re: Binding Elder Evils: A miniguide

    Quote Originally Posted by tobey_maguire View Post
    Zargon the Returner

    I like the picture...!!!
    In which movie it exist...!!!
    Spoiler
    Show



    But yeah, you usually want to avoid thread necro. Just glance at the dates to make sure you don't do it by accident.
    Last edited by Slipperychicken; 2013-03-22 at 01:32 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Tippy View Post
    By level 20 though, you aren't capturing a wizard. A character lives to level 20 by being the most ruthless, lucky, capable, and paranoid bastard around. A wizard is throwing around a 30+ Int score and has, entirely in character, planned contingencies for his contingencies. He may well be running around with flat out total immunity to harm, he does not walk outside without an entire bevy of defensive magics around him and enough magic items to buy himself a nation.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kelb_Panthera's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2009

    Default Re: Binding Elder Evils: A miniguide

    But to answer the question before this thread is locked; zargon and all the other "elder evils" listed can be found in the Elder Evils supplement. Google "D&D 3.5 Elder Evils" or search for the same on amazon for more details.
    I am not seaweed. That's a B.

    Praise I've received
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell View Post
    Kelb, recently it looks like you're the Avatar of Reason in these forums, man.
    Quote Originally Posted by LTwerewolf View Post
    [...] bringing Kelb in on your side in a rules fight is like bringing Mike Tyson in on your side to fight a toddler. You can, but it's such massive overkill.
    A quick outline on building a homebrew campaign

    Avatar by Tiffanie Lirle

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    123456789blaaa's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2011

    Default Re: Binding Elder Evils

    Note: I believe that thread necromancing handbooks is allowable (I know I posted in the Reanimated DN handbook and didn't get a warning).

    Quote Originally Posted by Alleran View Post
    It's #317. However, to use one of the truenames given there, IIRC you have to take the feat that grants them, which no demon lords, archdevils, or really any by-the-book creatures have done. For practical purposes (and the added coolness of getting demon lords and archdevils), I'd take it as ToM truename mechanics instead.
    Is that RAW though? The magazine does specifically refer you to the other magazine...
    Please, call me Count

    Thanks go to Shecky for the nickname and Serack for the avatar ^,..,^

    Proud member of the Purple court.

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Really though, you're looking at a shapeshifted angel of some sort getting all Discovery Channel about how exactly Friendship Is Magic.

    Please don't ask questions like this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fouredged Sword View Post
    It is fairly hard to render a body into a form a necromancer can't do SOMETHING with it. They are the Martha Stewart's of spellcasters.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •