Superman vs Princess Celestia

[Riptor]

Seeing how there was a Batman vs Princess Celestia thread, why not the more understandable version.

Scenario: Superman is traveling through space looking out for Brainiac after a daring heist of a Dimensional transporter and had kidnapped Lois Lane and Jimmy Olsen. Brainiac manages to escape through the Dimensional rift to another Dimension. Superman follows but because of a time warp is sent 1 year into this dimensions time. He land in Equestria which has been taken captive by Brainiac. Brainiac had shrunken all of Canterlot along with Luna, Cadance, and the Mane 6. He makes a deal with Celestia if she beats Superman that he will let them go. Any resistance and they are dead. With no choice and a power upgrade allowing her to be at maximum prime and power. She sets out to try to defeat Superman, who realizes that also Lois Lane and Jimmy are captured and if he loses, theyll die. Realizing they have no choice they confront each other and the fight begins.

Rules
Using only Superman from Post-Crisis and Pre-Crisis continuity, No Abstract or Magic Proof Superman
Celestia has a power boost and is working on how powerful many people think she would hypothetically.
They are not out for Blood but simply want to defeat the other person. Though death is possible

Begin

[Sanguine]

A person who gets there power from the sun versus a person who has shown the ability to control the sun. I honestly think this can only end one way.

[Riptor]

A person who gets there power from the sun versus a person who has shown the ability to control the sun. I honestly think this can only end one way.

Which may prove to be a good thing for Superman. If shes constantly showering him with Solar Radiation thats good.

Its like a Gamma monster attacking the Hulk.

[Sanguine]

I was actually thinking the reverse. If she starved him of Solar Radiation he would lose his powers and that would be a victory.

[Riptor]

I was actually thinking the reverse. If she starved him of Solar Radiation he would lose his powers and that would be a victory.

How would she starve him of Solar Radiation? As long as theres even a small fraction of Yellow Sunlight he has his powers. Unless she removes the sun, which even then wouldnt take away his powers right away and take a LOT of time to affect him.

Unless she turns the Sun red... can she do that?

[Cen]

Unless she turns the Sun red... can she do that?

She is sun contolling slmost-goddes of magic, of course she can :D

also - all her attacks would be powerfull magic, right? Superman is weak to magic, right?

Yeah, I don't think Supes can win this one

[Riptor]

She is sun contolling slmost-goddes of magic, of course she can :D

also - all her attacks would be powerfull magic, right? Superman is weak to magic, right?

Yeah, I don't think Supes can win this one

But wouldnt turning the sun red have untold consequences on the planet. And even then it takes a while for the Red sun radiation to fully deplete it. If she can constantly stream it then yeah she could. But hes fought beings with similar Sun controlling powers before and won.

Superman is not weak to magic, he is as vunerable to it as a normal person, and even then he can take a lot of damage. He fought Captain Marvel and Thor and beat them, and they have the knowledge of thousands of years of spells and battle training.

If Celestia is running at full power she could beat him, if Superman doesnt speed blitz.

[Eldan]

Superman is powered by yellow light, yes? Plants mostly need red and blue, so that's not much of a problem.

[Riptor]

Superman is powered by yellow light, yes? Plants mostly need red and blue, so that's not much of a problem.

But a drastic change from a Yellow Sun to a Red Sun would be pretty catastrophic to the overall enviroment... but it is a world of Magical ponies so meh.

Honestly it just matters if Superman can get a few good hits. Though since Celestia TK has the power to hold a sun it matters is she can hold him down. Which again matter which Superman you're using. Pre-Crisis would break out though it may take effort, Post-Crisis... maybe??

[nyarlathotep]

On the other hand she was beaten by a bug monster powered by a single couple's love. We've also never seen her do anything to the sun other than raise and lower it.

Superman on the other hand has a startling habit of turning into a baby when exposed to magic. He also forgets his own powers as the plot demands.

[Weimann]

Speaking as a brony here, you guys seriously overestimate Celestia.

Celestia has been shown in battle one in the show, and she lost that battle. Her magic is strong, but in terms of raw power, she's certainly not unmatchable by entities in her own universe. Her big battles (against Discord and, later, Luna) were all won with the Elements of Harmony. Now, we don't know how they work, but if we assume that they're not just a lazor beam, I find it hard to think they'd work on Superman.

As for lowering the sun, it's not like Superman loses his abilities at night. Changing the colour spectrum of the sun might work, provided she can do that.

But, in any case, my main argument for Superman winning is that he'd get the first attack. I've read very few Superman comics, but in one of them, he is staring down a guy with a gun. The trigger is pressed. The hammer is coming down. When it's about halfway through the path, then Superman moves and pushes the guy's arm up in the air, sending the bullet upwards. So he reached him in half the time it takes for the hammer of a fired gun to come down.

Celestia would take a fist to the snout before she knew he was around, and that would be that.

[Riptor]

On the other hand she was beaten by a bug monster powered by a single couple's love. We've also never seen her do anything to the sun other than raise and lower it.

Superman on the other hand has a startling habit of turning into a baby when exposed to magic. He also forgets his own powers as the plot demands.

I think i can give Celestia some leeway there. That bug monster was a Bizarro Alicorn and probably had immense powers to begin with, she was drawing love from the Goddess of Love and her Partner who was Captain of the Royal Guard. She did show that she could cancel any of Twilights Spells in a blink of an eye, implying she is FAR more powerful than her, so you take anything that Twilight did and amplify it.

On the other hand. Superman is often affected by beings though that are majorly cosmic in scale. Like Zatanna (Who is a Demi-God of magic capable to creating and destroying Universes) and Mxyzptlk (who is like Discord times 1000) so its not that hes weak or anything. That and by the end of the Pre-Crisis era his vunerability to magic became less because he discovered how to absorb it and channel it through his body.

Again though Celestia does have the knowledge and determination on her side, that and since i gave her a power boost equal to that of how powerful some fans speculate her to be. Shes got a good chance

Hypothetical Celestia > Post Crisis Superman yes

But Pre-Crisis? Dont really know.

[Riptor]

Speaking as a brony here, you guys seriously overestimate Celestia.

Celestia has been shown in battle one in the show, and she lost that battle. Her magic is strong, but in terms of raw power, she's certainly not unmatchable by entities in her own universe. Her big battles (against Discord and, later, Luna) were all won with the Elements of Harmony. Now, we don't know how they work, but if we assume that they're not just a lazor beam, I find it hard to think they'd work on Superman.

As for lowering the sun, it's not like Superman loses his abilities at night. Changing the colour spectrum of the sun might work, provided she can do that.

But, in any case, my main argument for Superman winning is that he'd get the first attack. I've read very few Superman comics, but in one of them, he is staring down a guy with a gun. The trigger is pressed. The hammer is coming down. When it's about halfway through the path, then Superman moves and pushes the guy's arm up in the air, sending the bullet upwards. So he reached him in half the time it takes for the hammer of a fired gun to come down.

Celestia would take a fist to the snout before she knew he was around, and that would be that.

While i tend to agree with you on that, i must mention that i did allow for a Hypothetical Celestia to be used since Brainiac is giving her extra energy and putting her at her prime. So she doesnt have as much of the weakness of age. So overspeculation is ok in terms of Speed and Strength.

[Makensha]

Yeah, definitely Superman. Fight begins. *Laser Eyes* Celestia dies.

Or she blocks the laser eyes and he walks up to her with laser eyes going and punches her.

Or he throws a building at her, she telekinesis it, and he flies up and punches her.

Or he hides, waits for her to look away and hits her from behind.

Or he blows really hard and hits her against a wall, knocking her unconscious.

Even if she changes the sun, he can hide and wait for her to realize she's killing her planet and change it back.

The only way I can see Celestia have a chance is to hit him with magic before he can get his eye lasers (heat beams, whatever) off and then mez (trap, stunlock, whatever) him to until he's dead/unconcious. Even then, I am not sure she can actually hold Superman that long.

[Riptor]

Yeah, definitely Superman. Fight begins. *Laser Eyes* Celestia dies.

Or she blocks the laser eyes and he walks up to her with laser eyes going and punches her.

Or he throws a building at her, she telekinesis it, and he flies up and punches her.

Or he hides, waits for her to look away and hits her from behind.

Or he blows really hard and hits her against a wall, knocking her unconscious.

Even if she changes the sun, he can hide and wait for her to realize she's killing her planet and change it back.

The only way I can see Celestia have a chance is to hit him with magic before he can get his eye lasers (heat beams, whatever) off and then mez (trap, stunlock, whatever) him to until he's dead/unconcious. Even then, I am not sure she can actually hold Superman that long.

I doubt Superman would straight up try to KILL Celestia. Hes still the good guy and ive said they arent bloodlusted.

[Traab]

I call it in three superfast hits. Basically, the first couple are to dial in how hard he needs to hit her without making her instantly dead. After all, he isnt in a bloodrage here. Quite honestly, he should be able to dodge anything she does. I just dont see her as being effective against him. But then again, I dont see much of anything being very effective against a superman thats actually willing to fight all out. The only way you can defeat him, realistically, is to be insanely powerful, then hope he underestimates you and capitalize on that instantly. He holds back a lot in his fights at the start, generally speaking, and it takes him awhile to fully ramp up because he doesnt want to disintegrate everything with his fist by punching too hard. Its why so often the latest lexcorp weapon knocks him on his ass the first time its fired, pushes him back a bit the second, then he tends to just shove his way through it and demolish the weapon on shot number 3.

[Fan]

Superman, in the current run, is faster than light according to Cosmic Man, a man who's entire powerset is precise control of matter.(action comics issue 5, page 9 of the New 52 run.)

In "The Sacrifice" he, while fighting wonder woman, makes it to the sun, back, and has a ground fight where he encases wonder woman in ice in the grand total of 1 minute, 54 seconds. This includes the span of time it'd take a flock of birds to make it down from end of sight distance on a flat highway.

For source, Wonder Woman v2 #219 The Sacrifice: Issue 4 page 19.

Given that sunlight takes 8 minutes 19 seconds to reach the planet, and he went there and BACK in that frame.

Converting that into seconds, we have 499 seconds for sunlight to reach us, and it took him 114 seconds to get there and back.

Simple division gives us 8.76315789474 times the speed of light if he had done it one way.

Since he did it there and back, we multiply it by 2 for effective combat speed.

17.5263157895 times the speed of light in a mainline canon event, with faster than light confirmed in the soon to be retconned new 52 (going by announcements on the DC Nation Facebook page.).

Which unfortunately for the Good Princess Celestia, means that none of her powers are even on a scale that can touch superman.

[Aotrs Commander]

I imagine that there would be very little to fight over, as I imagine they'd team up and beat the utter crap out of Brainiac within, ooh, four or five minutes (that's from meeting each other and swapping notes, obviously, not fighting...!)

And then Supes would have a short, jolly holiday and enjoy a quick "Superman and Celestia saved Canterlot" party curtesy of Pinkie Pie before heading home with a semi-consciously blithering Brainiac in tow...



That said, I would say, even given ponies have superpowers, that is only in terms of what humans count as; Supes is a bit beyond that level; in terms of raw power, Celestia is probably just not up to dealing with Supes via direct physical or energy attacks (he's just too fast for one), and we have no idea whether she has any suitable non-direct "save-or-lose" spells (which would be her best bet).

[Riptor]

I call it in three superfast hits. Basically, the first couple are to dial in how hard he needs to hit her without making her instantly dead. After all, he isnt in a bloodrage here. Quite honestly, he should be able to dodge anything she does. I just dont see her as being effective against him. But then again, I dont see much of anything being very effective against a superman thats actually willing to fight all out. The only way you can defeat him, realistically, is to be insanely powerful, then hope he underestimates you and capitalize on that instantly. He holds back a lot in his fights at the start, generally speaking, and it takes him awhile to fully ramp up because he doesnt want to disintegrate everything with his fist by punching too hard. Its why so often the latest lexcorp weapon knocks him on his ass the first time its fired, pushes him back a bit the second, then he tends to just shove his way through it and demolish the weapon on shot number 3.

Wow... um where to begin

Thanks for the effort put into this post i appreciate it. And i do agree with a lot of things said here... but

I am putting Celestia at a higher leve than usual and giving her more prep time to understand Superman than Superman would understand her.

Supermans not 100% Bloodlusted so theirs still the idea that he would hold back. I doubt he would find a Pony Princess, as nice and non-egotistical as he is, all that threatening at first.

[Riptor]

I imagine that there would be very little to fight over, as I imagine they'd team up and beat the utter crap out of Brainiac within, ooh, four or five minutes (that's from meeting each other and swapping notes, obviously, not fighting...!)

And then Supes would have a short, jolly holiday and enjoy a quick "Superman and Celestia saved Canterlot" party curtesy of Pinkie Pie before heading home with a semi-consciously blithering Brainiac in tow...



That said, I would say, even given ponies have superpowers, that is only in terms of what humans count as; Supes is a bit beyond that level; in terms of raw power, Celestia is probably just not up to dealing with Supes via direct physical or energy attacks (he's just too fast for one), and we have no idea whether she has any suitable non-direct "save-or-lose" spells (which would be her best bet).

Some flaws in the beginning. For one as ive stated Brainiac has complete control over the shrunken Canterlot and will kill them if ANY resistance it made. That and this fight isnt supposed to be a, team up, per say. This is a straight up fight until one of them is down. After which who ever wins could find a loop-hole in Brainiacs plans and beat him. The fight has to happen

Second parts fine. I mostly agree with it, though Celestia may have a better strategy seeing how she does a power boost and prep time.

[Tiki Snakes]

If you have to significantly power boost one of the combatants to make it a fight at all, then you already know your answer and didn't need to ask the question. See for example the preposterous Godzilla vs King Kong, which surmises that King Kong could indeed win in that matchup (If he was somehow 10 times or more larger than he actually is in his own franchise and Godzilla forgets how to swim.)

And any scenario which requires the two protagonists to go entirely against their established personality to happen is of dubious worth even if an answer can be reached. If Braniac did what he is said to have done to force a showdown between the two, the obvious answer of what would happen assuming either franchise's cosmology and narrative traditions, is that the Mane Six orchestrate a miniture canterlot escape/revolt, breaking Braniacs hold over one or both of the two long enough for Superman and Celestia to give him a royal stomping. The last thing that would happen is that Celestia and Superman would go along with Brainiac's sick wishes without attempting to subvert the whole scheme and beat Brainiac.

[Riptor]

If you have to significantly power boost one of the combatants to make it a fight at all, then you already know your answer and didn't need to ask the question. See for example the preposterous Godzilla vs King Kong, which surmises that King Kong could indeed win in that matchup (If he was somehow 10 times or more larger than he actually is in his own franchise and Godzilla forgets how to swim.)

And any scenario which requires the two protagonists to go entirely against their established personality to happen is of dubious worth even if an answer can be reached. If Braniac did what he is said to have done to force a showdown between the two, the obvious answer of what would happen assuming either franchise's cosmology and narrative traditions, is that the Mane Six orchestrate a miniture canterlot escape/revolt, breaking Braniacs hold over one or both of the two long enough for Superman and Celestia to give him a royal stomping. The last thing that would happen is that Celestia and Superman would go along with Brainiac's sick wishes without attempting to subvert the whole scheme and beat Brainiac.

Im not giving her an unfair power up. Im just allowing her to be able to fight at her absolute best and for her to be in her prime. She isnt getting any extra power that would make the fight lean towards her (Im definitely not pulling a King Kong vs Godzilla... though i do love that movie) im just taking away the strain of the sun, the lack of long term experience, and the 1000 years of age put onto her. Shed be fighting if she had all her experiences but in a fresh 100% body... that sounded wrong didnt it.

I dont know, it worked in Dark Knight Strikes Back :). But in all seriousness im fine with them trying to do that, but there has to be a fight in which one come out on top. Then they can team up and do the traditional hero team up. Thats all. Theres a fight either way and whod you think would win.

Thats the problem with these type of fights is that theirs always the, why would they, just wanted to give a reason why. But the fact remain... THEY MUST FIGHT.

But thanks for the feedback :)

[Tiki Snakes]

My thoughts on the They Must Fight angle are thusly;

The justifications used as to why they would, in threads such as this, are often over-done. Convaluted villain plots just put it into the story shape that makes subverting the fight inevitable.

However, Superman ends up in Equestria. As they are both the revered protectors of their respective worlds, he and Celestia decide to spar with each other because it's important to keep the reflexes sharp (Lest cheese-legged upstarts embarrass you when the chips are unexpectedly down).
Problem solved.

We have no reason to believe Celestia isn't in her prime, at the peak of her powers and so on. The only thing we know is that she is either unable or unwilling to weild the elements of harmony anymore. As they are Deus-Ex-Machina Macguffins, they are innapropriate for a vs thread anyway.

[Lord Raziere]

maybe we need friendly contests for heroes and other such things that won't fight each other instead a versus battle?

[Riptor]

My thoughts on the They Must Fight angle are thusly;

The justifications used as to why they would, in threads such as this, are often over-done. Convaluted villain plots just put it into the story shape that makes subverting the fight inevitable.

However, Superman ends up in Equestria. As they are both the revered protectors of their respective worlds, he and Celestia decide to spar with each other because it's important to keep the reflexes sharp (Lest cheese-legged upstarts embarrass you when the chips are unexpectedly down).
Problem solved.

We have no reason to believe Celestia isn't in her prime, at the peak of her powers and so on. The only thing we know is that she is either unable or unwilling to weild the elements of harmony anymore. As they are Deus-Ex-Machina Macguffins, they are innapropriate for a vs thread anyway.

Which makes even less sense since Superman isnt one to start a fight for the sake of starting a fight, and i dont think Celestia cares about sharpening her reflexes. Besides whats the fun in a battle if its "just for laughs". Kind of a boring idea.

I can guess she is way out of her prime in the idea that she cant use the Elements of Harmony (which im not adding) also because shes probably been out of practice for over 1000 years. That and its seems to me that she was confirmed more powerful in her youth. That and 1000 years of sitting on your ass eating Cake definitely isnt good for a fight.

[Traab]

Wow... um where to begin

Thanks for the effort put into this post i appreciate it. And i do agree with a lot of things said here... but

I am putting Celestia at a higher leve than usual and giving her more prep time to understand Superman than Superman would understand her.

Supermans not 100% Bloodlusted so theirs still the idea that he would hold back. I doubt he would find a Pony Princess, as nice and non-egotistical as he is, all that threatening at first.

Thats why i said it would take several hits. He has to test her durability. He wont go for planet shattering punches right off the bat, he would likely go for a punch hard enough to knock out a regular horse, then after observing the effect it had, boost his next hit up again. The problem is, like was said by someone else, the dude can move faster than light. She would get punched and see superman back where he started without having even noticed he moved. So she wouldnt really have any way to fight back. In the time it takes her to realize she is under attack, he has already knocked her out.

[Tiki Snakes]

Which makes even less sense since Superman isnt one to start a fight for the sake of starting a fight, and i dont think Celestia cares about sharpening her reflexes. Besides whats the fun in a battle if its "just for laughs". Kind of a boring idea.

I can guess she is way out of her prime in the idea that she cant use the Elements of Harmony (which im not adding) also because shes probably been out of practice for over 1000 years. That and its seems to me that she was confirmed more powerful in her youth. That and 1000 years of sitting on your ass eating Cake definitely isnt good for a fight.

Superman, as someone who fights, must conceivably train his fighting style from time to time. That's what sparring is.
It's a very different thing from randomly picking a fight.

Hell, Brian Blessed has apparently Boxed with the Dali Llama. If that can happen in real life, I see nothing unusual in Superman having a friendly sparring session with Celestia.

As for Celestia's power level, well. That hasn't been confirmed anything, least of all confirmed more powerful in her youth. We know she used the Elements to Imprison Discord (just like the Mane 6). We know she used the Elements to imprison Nightmare Moon in the Moon.
And that's it. The only info we have on her power level (rather than the magical artifacts) is her fight with Chrysalis. That's it.

[Forum Explorer]

Since the show gives us next to nothing on her power level (besides losing to a suped up love parasite that is) we pretty much have to go with Fanon

So that puts her at a pretty high level of strength. She can likely just generate the light from a red sun from her horn, she doesn't need to convert the entire sun. She's very strong and pretty fast too.

However Superman still wins because he is the most broken character I have ever seen in mainstream media. He could snap Celestia's horn faster then she could perceive him.

[Riptor]

Superman, as someone who fights, must conceivably train his fighting style from time to time. That's what sparring is.
It's a very different thing from randomly picking a fight.

Hell, Brian Blessed has apparently Boxed with the Dali Llama. If that can happen in real life, I see nothing unusual in Superman having a friendly sparring session with Celestia.

As for Celestia's power level, well. That hasn't been confirmed anything, least of all confirmed more powerful in her youth. We know she used the Elements to Imprison Discord (just like the Mane 6). We know she used the Elements to imprison Nightmare Moon in the Moon.
And that's it. The only info we have on her power level (rather than the magical artifacts) is her fight with Chrysalis. That's it.

But why would Supeman pick a random sparring match with a random horse from another dimension. If a went to an alien world, why would i want to fight the person there (unless im captain kirk)

All i know about her power level is you can take any feat that Twilight, Cadance, and Luna did n amplify it by a lot. That an give her some of her experience she could do an alright job.

[Riptor]

Since the show gives us next to nothing on her power level (besides losing to a suped up love parasite that is) we pretty much have to go with Fanon

So that puts her at a pretty high level of strength. She can likely just generate the light from a red sun from her horn, she doesn't need to convert the entire sun. She's very strong and pretty fast too.

However Superman still wins because he is the most broken character I have ever seen in mainstream media. He could snap Celestia's horn faster then she could perceive him.

Superman isnt trying to get bloodlusted, and even in a fight like that i doubt he would rip off someones body part. Again he could underestimate her and that could be a problem

And no the most broken character in media history is Bugs Bunny. He had the ability to become the Writer of one of his own cartoons... Tell me thats no Broken.