General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

[Friv]

How much soak do objects made of magical materials have? I know they're hard to damage, but is that because they have really high soak or because they ignore damage?

There are various rules on this subject, all of which are entirely contradictory. Most things that have magical materials threaded through them, like orichalcum doors or first age warships, generally have soak and hardness in the 30-50 range. Most things that are smaller and made of folding magical materials, like basic artifacts, are usually portrayed as utterly indestructible unless people use powers that specifically break artifacts, in which case those powers don't generally do levels of damage so it doesn't matter.

Oedanol's Codex will give you a set of rules whereby artifacts are just normal objects with a soak, hardness, and health level bonus equal to double their artifact rating, but since (a) that's stupidly low and (b) ordinary objects don't have listed soak, hardness, or health anywhere, it's not particularly helpful. It also says you can break them with a feat of strength of (object + Artifact level), which would mean that, as a dramatic action, breaking a daiklave over your knee would require Strength + Athletics 6.

I think we can all agree that is a bad rule.

[Hiro Protagonest]

There are various rules on this subject, all of which are entirely contradictory. Most things that have magical materials threaded through them, like orichalcum doors or first age warships, generally have soak and hardness in the 30-50 range. Most things that are smaller and made of folding magical materials, like basic artifacts, are usually portrayed as utterly indestructible unless people use powers that specifically break artifacts, in which case those powers don't generally do levels of damage so it doesn't matter.

Oedanol's Codex will give you a set of rules whereby artifacts are just normal objects with a soak, hardness, and health level bonus equal to double their artifact rating, but since (a) that's stupidly low and (b) ordinary objects don't have listed soak, hardness, or health anywhere, it's not particularly helpful. It also says you can break them with a feat of strength of (object + Artifact level), which would mean that, as a dramatic action, breaking a daiklave over your knee would require Strength + Athletics 6.

I think we can all agree that is a bad rule.

There's also CoCD: Autochthonia, which states that when a metropolis of Orichlacum closed her gates, the Minister of Wrath could not get through.

But yeah, the Codex's rule is a really bad one, considering Heaven's Reach states that Orichalcum can be unharmed by blows that crush planets.

[Exthalion]

There's also CoCD: Autochthonia, which states that when a metropolis of Orichlacum closed her gates, the Minister of Wrath could not get through.

But yeah, the Codex's rule is a really bad one, considering Heaven's Reach states that Orichalcum can be unharmed by blows that crush planets.

However, the magical materials are not entirely indestructable. There is a necromancy spell which hardens soulsteel into true invincibility on one side of a flat plate and the MM can be worked in order to produce artifacts in the first place.

[Kobold-Bard]

So a Quadriplegic GSP can start as a Devil Tiger, huh?

Interesting.....

[Amechra]

... I now want to know what their Excellencies would be directed towards.

Maybe... The Neverborn-That-Lived?

[The_Snark]

So a Quadriplegic GSP can start as a Devil Tiger, huh?

Interesting.....

I don't think you can, at least not with standard character creation rules.

Technically, yeah, you could take ten points of Flaws and buy Essence up to 6 with all your bonus points, but you still have to meet the prerequisites for Triumphant Howl of the Devil-Tiger: any Yozi Excellency, any Sorcerous Initiation, and any Shintai Charm. (The prerequisites have to come from at least two different Yozis, but that's simple enough.) At Essence 6, that Excellency will cost you 6 Charm slots. You also have to spend one on Sorcerous Initiation of (Yozi), plus one on Ascendancy Mantle of (Yozi) to get your Essence 6. The easiest Shintai to get is Devil-Tyrant Avatar Shintai, which has only 2 prerequisite Charms. Total of... 11 Charms.

But you only get 10, and you spent all of your bonus points raising Essence.

Of course, it is a reasonably common houserule in these parts to give a certain amount of free Excellencies, but banning flaws is common too.

[Kobold-Bard]

I don't think you can, at least not with standard character creation rules.

...

Yeah, I realised that I miscounted.

Crap

[omegalith]

So, you never see any of Sacheverell's souls running around in any of the published material, which is odd, because you see Oramus's souls and he's equally contained.

One possible explanation is that he knows exactly what he's doing: After all, he can see all things in the present perfectly with no regards to which world they're in or status in relation to fate, so his lesser selves know precisely where to be and how to move around if they wish to remain perpetually unseen.

And perhaps, just once in a while when Lucien's attention wavers for a moment, a great eye cracks open by mere millimeters to make a single unerring proclamation...

[golentan]

On starting devil tigers: You can give yourself a massive boost by buying up all your virtues to 5 with bonus points and then grabbing Hollow Heart Transcendence. That gives you over a hundred XP.

[Lix Lorn]

Isn't there a rule saying you can't start with higher than E4? Or was that missed out in Infernals?

[Kobold-Bard]

Isn't there a rule saying you can't start with higher than E4? Or was that missed out in Infernals?

Solars can start with 5, can't they?

[Tavar]

The difference would be that Sach is not contained. He is surpressed, prevented from ever forming himself or his component souls.

[omegalith]

On starting devil tigers: You can give yourself a massive boost by buying up all your virtues to 5 with bonus points and then grabbing Hollow Heart Transcendence. That gives you over a hundred XP.

That'd have a rather sharp impact on the legend you inscribe upon the world: You were born with near-Unconquered Sun levels of virtue, then plagued by your own psychology chose to take refuge in enlightened depravity.

You're basically stuck being either the Scootaloo to ED's Rainbow Dash or swapping it out when you start developing your own charms for a different drop-all-virtue charm that puts a new spin on it.

[Qwertystop]

That'd have a rather sharp impact on the legend you inscribe upon the world: You were born with near-Unconquered Sun levels of virtue, then plagued by your own psychology chose to take refuge in enlightened depravity.

You're basically stuck being either the Scootaloo to ED's Rainbow Dash or swapping it out when you start developing your own charms for a different drop-all-virtue charm that puts a new spin on it.

Well, I know I've considered making a DT of Things Should Not Work That Way, aka Repurposing Basic Definitions And Concepts. This entry would actually work really well for that.

[omegalith]

Well, I know I've considered making a DT of Things Should Not Work That Way, aka Repurposing Basic Definitions And Concepts. This entry would actually work really well for that.

Might also work for a clinical, underemotional AI type of personality. Dropping virtue along with most other emotion not because you're a self-centered coward, but because they're distractions from clarity of thought.

Radiant Skynet Shintai.

Dreams of Thundering Livestock.

Can't Let You Do That Prana.

Running With Blades Method.

Cake And Lies Equivalency.

[The_Snark]

Might also work for a clinical, underemotional AI type of personality. Dropping virtue along with most other emotion not because you're a self-centered coward, but because they're distractions from clarity of thought.

Having Virtues at 1 is not a great way to represent that; sure, low Compassion might cut down on distraction, but low Conviction is unhelpful, while low Temperance and Valor are actively unhelpful if you're aiming for clarity of thought. You'd be better off going with Cosmic Transcendence of Virtue, or (if you're a Devil-Tiger) developing a Charm that replaces your inefficient human Virtues with automaton Virtues.

In fact, Wonders of the Lost Age presents a couple different possibilities there - simple automata always fail Compassion, always succeed on Temperance, and fail or succeed on Conviction depending on whether it supports their purpose (Motivation). For more complex (but still inhuman) AIs, they suggest an alternate set of Virtues: Reception, Transmission, Stability and Power.

[omegalith]

Having Virtues at 1 is not a great way to represent that; sure, low Compassion might cut down on distraction, but low Conviction is unhelpful, while low Temperance and Valor are actively unhelpful if you're aiming for clarity of thought. You'd be better off going with Cosmic Transcendence of Virtue, or (if you're a Devil-Tiger) developing a Charm that replaces your inefficient human Virtues with automaton Virtues.

Well, you could always have the Charm that tears away Virtue, then the Charm with that as a prerequisite that builds up a quasi-automaton replacement that most closely matches your ideas of efficient thought if necessary. However:

I'd disagree with Low Valor not helping though: Bravery and pride are fairly inefficient concepts. Paranoid survivalism isn't necessarily craven cowardice. Low Conviction can also help you re-assess your goals and adapt more readily. With characters like Skynet, Hal 9000, GLaDOS, SHODAN and so forth as your model, "Efficiency" is a slightly warped and flawed concept that the character is only arguably adhering to. And they're not as unemotional as they may claim to be.

[Qwertystop]

Might also work for a clinical, underemotional AI type of personality. Dropping virtue along with most other emotion not because you're a self-centered coward, but because they're distractions from clarity of thought.

Radiant Skynet Shintai.

Dreams of Thundering Livestock.

Can't Let You Do That Prana.

Running With Blades Method.

Cake And Lies Equivalency.

Umm... I got all of those except Running with Blades Method.

[omegalith]

Umm... I got all of those except Running with Blades Method.

Blade Runner. Because it's the movie adaption of "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?", and thus works as a name for a charm building on the previous.

...A bit more obtuse than the others, I freely admit.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Blade Runner. Because it's the movie adaption of "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?", and thus works as a name for a charm building on the previous.

...A bit more obtuse than the others, I freely admit.

...

*facepalm*

I got the bladerunner one but not the novel reference.

[omegalith]

Honestly, the only one of those where I've actually defined what the Charm does in my head rather than just the name is Radiant Skynet Shintai, which literally turns you into a glowing grid in the sky.

...Because once you've defined your Inner World and main Shintai (And Jouten, if someone learns your Cosmic Principle...) as a Grid, you can start with the Tron references.

And you have to have metallic skeleton First Circles who can wear the skin of their victims and a nuke charm, of course. What's Skynet without nukes and armies of robot infiltrators who have trouble disguising their thick Austrian accents?

[Qwertystop]

Blade Runner. Because it's the movie adaption of "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?", and thus works as a name for a charm building on the previous.

...A bit more obtuse than the others, I freely admit.

Really? I didn't know there was a thing called "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?". I just assumed it was a reference to Marvin's song in HHGTTG.

[Exthalion]

Brain the Size of the Universe Sorrow

Want to Kill Your Parents Practice

Haunting the Shell

Unanticipated Progeny as Mate Evolution

Copies Without Original Complex

[omegalith]

Want to Kill Your Parents Practice

I'm pretty sure Kill Your Family Remonstration is a development of Broadcast Announcement Prana.

[Qwertystop]

Brain the Size of the Universe Sorrow

Want to Kill Your Parents Practice

Haunting the Shell

Unanticipated Progeny as Mate Evolution

Copies Without Original Complex

And of those I only got the first...

[Turalisj]

Haunting the Shell = Ghost in the Shell

[Exthalion]

And of those I only got the first...

Haunting the Shell = Ghost in the Shell

Brain the Size of the Universe Sorrow: Hitchhikers Guide to the Universe

Want to Kill Your Parents Practice: Prometheus

Haunting the Shell: Ghost in the Shell

Unanticipated Progeny as Mate Evolution: Ghost in the Shell, manga and original movie with the Puppeteer.

Copies Without Original Complex: Stand Alone Complex

[Qwertystop]

Well, I know I've considered making a DT of Things Should Not Work That Way, aka Repurposing Basic Definitions And Concepts. This entry would actually work really well for that.

Never mind that, I just realized I got it mixed up with Cosmic Transcendence of (Virtue).

[Lix Lorn]

Might also work for a clinical, underemotional AI type of personality. Dropping virtue along with most other emotion not because you're a self-centered coward, but because they're distractions from clarity of thought.

Radiant Skynet Shintai.

Dreams of Thundering Livestock.

Can't Let You Do That Prana.

Running With Blades Method.

Cake And Lies Equivalency.

I LIKE you. xD

Fully Functional Assurance.
:3

[Exthalion]

I LIKE you. xD

Fully Functional Assurance.
:3

Data in first Contact?