General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

[Ifni]

@omegalith: this brightened my day. Thank you

[Exthalion]

Well, for the Dragon Kings the answer already presents itself. Beat up some gods and make with the Ride charm.

[Amechra]

... How are you not running that right now?

I will actually put in the effort of learning ALL THE RULES if you run that.

[omegalith]

... How are you not running that right now?

I will actually put in the effort of learning ALL THE RULES if you run that.

I'm not actually all that familiar with the rules myself, honestly. Just enough to read a statblock or charm and have a vague idea of what I've just seen.

Plus, I have a bad record for trying to run online games. The times I planned on running a post-apocalyptic Pokemon setting or MLP:FIM fused with D&D... Just didn't take off past the planning stages.

[Lix Lorn]

Having just read Scroll of the Fallen Races, a book which is essentially about two groups of largely reasonable superhuman beings that have become oppressed minorities due to Humans having demigod-weaponry superglued to their souls, I kinda want to play in a game where a bunch of Jadeborn and Dragon Kings meet in a bar, get heavily drunk, rant incoherently for several hours and swear a magically-enforced pact (That a Fiend at the next table was only too happy to sanction) to pursue a quest one of them noted down on a napkin.

Opreration KICK EVREA ASS:

1: Find Autocluth Autocubble OTTOCOBBLES.
2: Make him mace extaltians that work forr us
2: KICK EVEREY ASE

Also, one member of the group is a Dragonblooded who was too heavily intoxicated to even know what he was enthusiastically yelling "HELL YEAH!" about.

"This plan makes absolutely no sense! I've never even heard of this "Great Maker" deity, and even if your heretical religion has any truth to it, I already have a- How did you put it? -"Extaltian"! I stand to gain nothing from your rambling excuse for a quest!"

"No no, this works out, you can help us bypass the Geas."

"You're actually thinking of going through with this madness?"

"Do you want to break a pact that lets the Ebon Dragon decide how our punishment is enforced?"

"...I'll go pack some supplies."

This is relevant to my interests. xD

[golentan]

Well, for the Dragon Kings the answer already presents itself. Beat up some gods and make with the Ride charm.

Not good enough. That just combines the power of a Dragon King and a God, not even on par with one of the terrestrial exalted in terms of potential. Exaltation is something special.

Edit: Also, the jadeborn have exaltation equivalent in the form of the Enlightened.

[Exthalion]

Not good enough. That just combines the power of a Dragon King and a God, not even on par with one of the terrestrial exalted in terms of potential. Exaltation is something special.

Edit: Also, the jadeborn have exaltation equivalent in the form of the Enlightened.

Well yeah, they are the prototype of the prototypes. Though a really powerful god could theoretically up the scale. I think the Sun is the only god explicitly unable to inhabit anything.

[Story Time]

Having just read Scroll of the Fallen Races[...]

This is relevant to my interests. xD

I'm not actually all that familiar with the rules myself, honestly.

I am. And I wish I could run it.

...I've had a number of Jade-Born / Dragon King games in mind for a while now. May-be some other month... May-be after the new year... But then Third Edition might come out...


At the risk of waking the Meschlum beneath the surface of the thread...

...eventually a Dragon King has to make very careful arrangements with Wyld Folk, and / or Lunars, to perform the most significant stuff. I like Dragon Kings. Lots.

[Rikandur Azebol]

Story Time, there is answer to that. But turns Dragon King into Guvyer. And requires learning Dark Path.

As for using Fair Folk magic ... theoretically, were there mad enough fairies around there is possibility that even most unenlightened human/toad/bug could have Fair Folk charms and other powers.

As for the Enlightened ... nah, they aren't Exalted equivalents for the Jadeborn, they are simply the least lobotomized of the lot. One wonders why Autobot was so sloppy with that Geas thingy.

Personally I would love a game like that, dibs on Dragon King plant-grower !

[Kyeudo]

As for the Enlightened ... nah, they aren't Exalted equivalents for the Jadeborn, they are simply the least lobotomized of the lot. One wonders why Autobot was so sloppy with that Geas thingy.

The geas made more Jadeborn and their damaged souls are slowly regenerating back to full Enlightenment. Eventually, they will be better off as a race than ever before.

[Exthalion]

The geas made more Jadeborn and their damaged souls are slowly regenerating back to full Enlightenment. Eventually, they will be better off as a race than ever before.

Which may perhaps have been Autochthon's plan all along. However, While the total number of Enlightened Jadeborn is increasing, the Artisan population does not seem to be doing the same. As the Artisans are both the original form and the most powerful of the Jadeborn this seems like a net loss in the highest levels of capability. After all, after a certain point having more soldiers isn't going to be a significant improvement if fighting Celestial Level opposition.

[Kyeudo]

Which may perhaps have been Autochthon's plan all along. However, While the total number of Enlightened Jadeborn is increasing, the Artisan population does not seem to be doing the same. As the Artisans are both the original form and the most powerful of the Jadeborn this seems like a net loss in the highest levels of capability. After all, after a certain point having more soldiers isn't going to be a significant improvement if fighting Celestial Level opposition.

Except that after a certain amount of experience, those initial differences in Attributes and Abilities are irrelevant and those soldiers can fight on the Terrestrial level almost from birth. If not for the Geas, the Jadeborn could totally have performed something resembling the Usurpation on at least the Shogunate.

[Rhyvurg]

I fully support this jadeborn/dragon king idea. But I recommend adding half-castes and godbloods, just for more variety.

[Exthalion]

Except that after a certain amount of experience, those initial differences in Attributes and Abilities are irrelevant and those soldiers can fight on the Terrestrial level almost from birth. If not for the Geas, the Jadeborn could totally have performed something resembling the Usurpation on at least the Shogunate.

I was thinking more of the charms.

Incidentally, glad we all seem to think the same way the First Age Solars did about the Jadeborn. They generally get a bad rap for the Geas, but really, what choice did they have? I suppose they could have started throwing around social-fu to the same effect, but that is not a permanent solution.

[Story Time]

Wow. Who would've thought that I'd see this much interest for a Jade-Born / Dragon King concept. I've been thinking that I was in the minority for liking them. Like...for months while being a member of the forum.

[Yuki Akuma]

Jadeborn and Dragon-Kings are awesome. This is absolutely an idea I would be interested in running with.

[Exthalion]

I have trouble deciding which I like more. The Geas does have some rather harsh terms though for a game.

[Rikandur Azebol]

Story Time, who wouldn't love dinos ?

I have trouble deciding which I like more. The Geas does have some rather harsh terms though for a game.

R'leh ? I had always had easy time wiggling my way around the Geas. Of course it was troublesome ... especially when you tried to diplomacy your way with the Darkbroods, but while underground there is little things better than being a Jadeborn. But if you wish to be Geas free, there are canon ways. Like becoming Chaos Seer, for example. In previous edition Enlightened Pattern mastery charm were freeing you off the Geas as well, but looks like this capstone charm was too good for non-Solars.

But the most important difference is the fact that you have to understand single most important difference between Exalts and non-Exalts. Problems don't go away when you throw enough motes at them. And you have to live with the results, instead of reincarnating into another glory-hound fool.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I won't take it as any more than a joke concept until you come up with a more plausible explanation than "they all met in a bar, and a Fiend happened to be there".

If you do come up with a more plausible explanation... well, I was already sort of interested in getting the Scroll of Fallen Races.

[Gareth3]

For such a detailed fantasy setting, Creation is a bit lackluster in created languages. There's no equivalent to Elvish from Tolkein or even Klingon from Star Trek. So I thought I'd have a go at creating Deliberative Era Old Realm as a full-scale constructed language. There's already a writing system for it, even if there's no details on the language itself. One thing I'm wondering about is status, which is a crucial part of Deliberative Era society and would be reflected in the language. My idea is to go beyond polite pronouns and make the distinction between high-status and low status as basic as gender is in English, with no word for "people" covering all statuses. But who goes where in the hierarchy? My first draft is to have five different levels of status:

1) Solars and the Unconquered Sun
2) Lunars, Sidereals, and their patron gods.
3) Dragon-Blooded, and the five Elemental Dragons
4) Other gods, elementals, Jadeborn, Dragon Kings, Enlightened Mortals
5) Everything else, from mortals to inanimate objects. The Yozi and demons are put here, despite their power. Autochthon and Gaia too, they have more to worry about than grammar.

Before the War, the same five-level system was used, but the Yozis were at the top and all Exalts were treated as mortals. I'm not sure where the gods would fit in that version. So, how well does that fit with the setting?

[Rikandur Azebol]

Hmph, they could all meet at the sauna-party for all I care, Fiend too doesn't have to be real. Superstition is a good guideline as well.

For example, these guys could have made sworn promise and remember it trough hangover. And know that everyone else will remember their bold statements ... major loss of face if they back-track saying excuses like "we were drunk". They may reluctantly even try going onwards with it, with full intention of bribing the nearest "oracle" to tell them that stars are inauspicious in this lifetime or something along the lines.

Idea is splendid. Although Jade Dragon, asides from fluff the mechanics for Dragon Kings and Jadeborn are somewhat clunky at places.

[Story Time]

[...]well, I was already sort of interested in getting the Scroll of Fallen Races.

Dragon King Path Steps can be added into combos for free with-out Errata, I believe. There's a step in there that awakens Essence. It's one of the Air Paths. And did I mention how much I like Dragon Kings? Lots!

More seriously...may-be waiting for Third Edition might be the better choice.

[Rhyvurg]

But then you're not just waiting for 3e, you're waiting for them to put out 3e dragon kings and jadeborn. That sounds like way to much waiting.

[Dragnar]

I was thinking more of the charms.

Incidentally, glad we all seem to think the same way the First Age Solars did about the Jadeborn. They generally get a bad rap for the Geas, but really, what choice did they have? I suppose they could have started throwing around social-fu to the same effect, but that is not a permanent solution.

...So, wait, you're saying the power of the Jadeborn justified crippling a race that had done nothing but aid them in every imaginable way? Because they might POSSIBLY one day attack you?

That's not justified. It's insane. (Now, there are other possible ways to argue it was justified. but their power is not one of them.)

[Amechra]

It is justified if you are all crazies.

Hey, look, look at all those crazies!

First-Age Solars were estranged acquaintances with sanity.

[golentan]

...So, wait, you're saying the power of the Jadeborn justified crippling a race that had done nothing but aid them in every imaginable way? Because they might POSSIBLY one day attack you?

That's not justified. It's insane. (Now, there are other possible ways to argue it was justified. but their power is not one of them.)

THANK you. Life should not be played as a zero sum game, and the fact that other people have nice things is not a threat to your nice things by itself.

[omegalith]

...So, wait, you're saying the power of the Jadeborn justified crippling a race that had done nothing but aid them in every imaginable way? Because they might POSSIBLY one day attack you?

That's not justified. It's insane. (Now, there are other possible ways to argue it was justified. but their power is not one of them.)

The Solars seemed to be clamping down on all perceived threats, no matter how small. (Without perceiving those in their own hierarchy, because arrogance) If Autocthon hadn't left when he did, they'd have probably found an excuse to kill him.

Heck, I'm pretty sure the main reason the gods left the ruling of creation to them was because they knew they couldn't turn the Exaltations off if they decided they thought that the Incarnae looked a little too much like Primordials 2.0.

[Exthalion]

...So, wait, you're saying the power of the Jadeborn justified crippling a race that had done nothing but aid them in every imaginable way? Because they might POSSIBLY one day attack you?

That's not justified. It's insane. (Now, there are other possible ways to argue it was justified. but their power is not one of them.)

No, I am saying that the Solars' reaction was an essentially human one and that if some analogous situation came up in the real world a similar result could be reasonably expected from real world humans. Not saying it would, but that it plausibly could.

Analyzing the psychology of it, the Jadeborn were in the Solars' personal space and armed. This made the Solars very uncomfortable. If the Jadeborn empire had been on the surface and adjacent to the Realm they likely would have gotten along great. As it was, the Solars felt like they were in a room with a bear.

If the Jadeborn behaved like humans (They don't, but anthropomorphism can be rough) there would almost certainly have been a war eventually. When it came the Solars would be back to GET+respawn spamming. The JB could disrupt all their manses while retaining a massive industrial base. It would be the Primordial War all over again and the Solars would lose everything they had built. They couldn't contain the thread or establish a front because the JB were more or less interspersed with them.

So given the option of extermination or the geas it was the more merciful of the options. They KNEW cooperation would be better in the long run, their transhuman intellects and magic AI had very convincing models of that. They also KNEW how bad a war with the Jadeborn would be if it did happen.

I am not saying it was right. I am, once again, saying that it was human.

Edit: Incidentally, I think the main problem was that humans didn't interact with the Jadeborn enough. The Dragon Kings were a known element even if they were inhuman. The Jadeborn were the strange rock people who live under our feet, make powerful weapons, and are causing rolling blackouts.

[Amechra]

It is justified if you are all crazies.

Hey, look, look at all those crazies!

First-Age Solars were estranged acquaintances with sanity.

Just throwing this out here again.

[Rhyvurg]

The Solars had a pretty reasonable case against Autocthon, as the creator of exaltations it is very possible he could have done something to remove them, or kill them all. He was also the Primordial they didn't have a good hold on, Gaia had a good reason not to turn on them. It wasn't that the Jadeborn were a threat by themselves, they weren't. They were a threat when coupled with Auto as their leader, giving them more power and technology. The reason they ultimately turned on him was trust. They just couldn't trust him to stay on their side.