General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

[Andreaz]

Good idea, Andreaz ... and now take average player and tell him or her that she or he cannot do the same fanciful stuff that some unmentionable NPC's made with the help of whole lot of bonuses and crafters.

I imagine whining would pierce the heavens.

I know what you mean, and it irks me a bit too since I don't like those limitations... but they make too much sense. Building infrastructure as a way to gain power is pretty much "working as intended" here. It's not "You can't make these toys", but "You can't make these toys while you play gypsy-hobo" with a dash of "Recreating the age is so cliché. I aim to improve on it."

[Gareth3]

Also, planning on running a Gunstar Autochthonia game here for a couple of my RL friends; to pad out the group a bit, I'm considering allowing one more player. Players wouldn't have to post every day, but I am asking that said players at least be regular about it.

Do you have an idea of what the other characters are like? I might be interested if there's an obvious role missing.

[TheCountAlucard]

Considering that I have to explain Exalted to at least one of them... no, not yet.

[Exthalion]

Considering that I have to explain Exalted to at least one of them... no, not yet.

I would be interested in submitting an application.

[Gareth3]

Considering that I have to explain Exalted to at least one of them... no, not yet.

Fair enough. I'll look for the recruitment thread.

[tonberrian]

I know what you mean, and it irks me a bit too since I don't like those limitations... but they make too much sense. Building infrastructure as a way to gain power is pretty much "working as intended" here. It's not "You can't make these toys", but "You can't make these toys while you play gypsy-hobo" with a dash of "Recreating the age is so cliché. I aim to improve on it."

"Not being able to recreate the First Age" != "Not being able to create wonders comparable to those of the First Age". Your average hobo in a cave solar isn't going to be able to pump out the entirety of the First Age from said cave, unless said cave is, in fact, the center of a huge infrastructure that can produce those wonders (with Solars, this is entirely possible). That doesn't mean that the wonders he does produce cannot be as Creation-shakingly powerful as those produced in the First Age.

I'm pretty sure that this interpretation will still hold in 3E, regardless of how nebulously-defined the First Age becomes.

[Exthalion]

"Not being able to recreate the First Age" != "Not being able to create wonders comparable to those of the First Age". Your average hobo in a cave solar isn't going to be able to pump out the entirety of the First Age from said cave, unless said cave is, in fact, the center of a huge infrastructure that can produce those wonders (with Solars, this is entirely possible). That doesn't mean that the wonders he does produce cannot be as Creation-shakingly powerful as those produced in the First Age.

I'm pretty sure that this interpretation will still hold in 3E, regardless of how nebulously-defined the First Age becomes.

There is some real life backing for this. You could hypothetically build a gun type nuke in a cave. (Assuming you have the material which Solars can do with WST) An ipod, though less world shaking, isn't going to happen.

[Rikandur Azebol]

I know what you mean, and it irks me a bit too since I don't like those limitations... but they make too much sense. Building infrastructure as a way to gain power is pretty much "working as intended" here. It's not "You can't make these toys", but "You can't make these toys while you play gypsy-hobo" with a dash of "Recreating the age is so cliché. I aim to improve on it."

I were overtly sarcastic there, sorry. I do think that reliable production of such things like Magitech requires infrastructure. Simple artifacts ? Sure enough, since Dragon-Blooded chug them now and then, and they don't have fancy infrastructure even in a Realm where some of them could devote their precious attention to forging wonders for their less talented brethren.

The only infrastructure that could reliably throw Shogunate-level things are what Jadeborn have, and these are already barely sufficient to survive Endless War (IMO major reason why Humanity had nothing to fear from Jadeborn, they were too busy underground to think much about surface).

Another such infrastructure is in Yu-Shan, but gods are having their own problems. Like waiting hundreds of years in the line for forms necessary to start whole process of acquiring anything out of heavenly forges.

Fortunately for Creation, there was no sighted Fair Folk who were taking any interest in industrialization. Good, otherwise we wouldn't have Creation to play with.

[Exthalion]

I were overtly sarcastic there, sorry. I do think that reliable production of such things like Magitech requires infrastructure. Simple artifacts ? Sure enough, since Dragon-Blooded chug them now and then, and they don't have fancy infrastructure even in a Realm where some of them could devote their precious attention to forging wonders for their less talented brethren.

The only infrastructure that could reliably throw Shogunate-level things are what Jadeborn have, and these are already barely sufficient to survive Endless War (IMO major reason why Humanity had nothing to fear from Jadeborn, they were too busy underground to think much about surface).

Another such infrastructure is in Yu-Shan, but gods are having their own problems. Like waiting hundreds of years in the line for forms necessary to start whole process of acquiring anything out of heavenly forges.

Fortunately for Creation, there was no sighted Fair Folk who were taking any interest in industrialization. Good, otherwise we wouldn't have Creation to play with.

Fair folk have as much infrastructure as they feel like having.

[Tavar]

Good idea, Andreaz ... and now take average player and tell him or her that she or he cannot do the same fanciful stuff that some unmentionable NPC's made with the help of whole lot of bonuses and crafters.

I imagine whining would pierce the heavens.

Then they're not being reasonable. I mean, let's take a different example: two Dawns, both focused on war and with the same mechanics for charms/abilities/attirbutes/virtues/willpower/essence. One is a Bandit Lord in the Second Age. The other is a Deliberative General in the first. Comparison wise, the latter is much, much more effective. Because instead of being on his own, he has a whole society of other exalts helping him. The same holds true with the crafter.

Honestly, I'm fine with Second Age crafters working alone to not be able to reach all of the same heights. Not unless they manage to build up all the support of the First Age.

Also, both the Realm and Lookshy do have infastructure. Not at the level of the Shogunate, but they do have it.

If an element of a setting is so undefined that all you really have of it is a name and a vague hint, what purpose does it actually serve?

To make Creation seem larger, for the world to be a real, living world, and thus have many things that happen, but are not mentioned in depth.

[golentan]

Weird question: Should a 3rd Circle Soul have special (read: custom) abilities at essence 4 in the same vein if not the same power level as listed 3rd circles.

[Gensh]

Weird question: Should a 3rd Circle Soul have special (read: custom) abilities at essence 4 in the same vein if not the same power level as listed 3rd circles.

No reason why it shouldn't. Weak or not, a 3CS is still one of the defining aspects of a Primordial rather than some random spirit.

[golentan]

It's specifically about balance for this charm.

[Andreaz]

"Not being able to recreate the First Age" != "Not being able to create wonders comparable to those of the First Age". Your average hobo in a cave solar isn't going to be able to pump out the entirety of the First Age from said cave, unless said cave is, in fact, the center of a huge infrastructure that can produce those wonders (with Solars, this is entirely possible). That doesn't mean that the wonders he does produce cannot be as Creation-shakingly powerful as those produced in the First Age.

I'm pretty sure that this interpretation will still hold in 3E, regardless of how nebulously-defined the First Age becomes.

That is more or less what I said, yes. My accusations on the faults of 2e's first age are all in the mechanical implementation of that idea and, a couple times, actually depicting the first age rather than its remnants.

[omegalith]

So I just realized that Father from Full Metal Alchemist fits pretty well as a Third Circle Ebon Dragon Soul.

An immensely powerful entity made of Darkness and Eyes and Teeth with seven externalized subselves that define parts of his personality, one of which betrays him. Lives inside a location that's effectively part of him. Traps the souls of those he kills inside his body, still conscious and aware. Manipulates countless large-scale atrocities as part of an elaborate scheme to eat an entity that's essentially the Akashic Records. Cheats in battle by building an off switch for the setting's magic system into the methods of Alchemy taught in the nation he rules from the shadows. Effectively small and petty at his core, with no real motivation beyond gathering power and knowledge.

...And the Mannequin Soldiers are pretty much a First Circle race.

If it wasn't for the lower power level of the FMA setting and him starting out as an artificial human, he'd be almost a perfect fit.

[Turalisj]

Spoiler'd because some haven't seen the series yet.

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He wasn't an artificial human to start. Father was an eldritch horror, a strange black.. thing that couldn't exist outside of a flask. He used the mass transmutation to give himself a shell that let him exist outside the flask, which happened to be a 3D copy of Hoenhiem.

[Exthalion]

Might he be a fetich? He appears to know Black Mirror Shintai.

[Tavar]

For those who are interested, Revlid has posted a set of Isodoros charms on the official site.

[Qwertystop]

I just want an Elloge set.

[Doran]

For those who are interested, Revlid has posted a set of Isodoros charms on the official site.

Do you have a link please?

[omegalith]

Spoiler'd because some haven't seen the series yet.

Spoiler

Show

He wasn't an artificial human to start. Father was an eldritch horror, a strange black.. thing that couldn't exist outside of a flask. He used the mass transmutation to give himself a shell that let him exist outside the flask, which happened to be a 3D copy of Hoenhiem.

Spoiler

Show

He was made from Hoenheim's blood- He wasn't a very refined Homonculus, just an experiment made from a sample taken from a random slave.

"Artificial Human" is what the word Homonculus means though.

[Andreaz]

Do you have a link please?

http://forums.white-wolf.com/default...=posts&t=69799

[omegalith]

http://forums.white-wolf.com/default...=posts&t=69799

So when you say official, do you mean the content or just that it's on the White Wolf forums?

I wouldn't really refer to those as "the official site" given that it's a discussion board, but given that 3rd edition is about to come out it's not implausable that they could be releasing a handful of scraps thatnever made it into a book.

[Andreaz]

It is the official forum. When it's canonical work we refer to books or the authors' blogs.

[Volthawk]

So when you say official, do you mean the content or just that it's on the White Wolf forums?

I wouldn't really refer to those as "the official site" given that it's a discussion board, but given that 3rd edition is about to come out it's not implausable that they could be releasing a handful of scraps thatnever made it into a book.

Official site as in the official boards - Revlid's just a guy who puts out damn good homebrew.

[Weimann]

So when you say official, do you mean the content or just that it's on the White Wolf forums?

I wouldn't really refer to those as "the official site" given that it's a discussion board, but given that 3rd edition is about to come out it's not implausable that they could be releasing a handful of scraps thatnever made it into a book.

Honestly, the boards are way better than the site. The "official site" has not been updated for ages; the latest Exalted News is that the compliation of CoCD:Autochthonia has been released. That's from August. Last year.

Someone who was official said that this was largely due to the crisis that CCP, the owners of White Wolf, went through about a year ago. Their big cash cow, the video game EVE, had been grossly mishandled, and to recover they had to lay off some people. Among them the guys who handled the website. In fact, they had to launch a different web site for their blogs since the old one was being neglected.

If you want news on White Wolf releases, you should instead check out Onyx Path Publishing. I'm not sure, but I think it's a company offshoot from CCP that will handle the RPG publishing. They seem to currently have up-to-date announcements, at least.

[Yuki Akuma]

So, as I've said before, I'm playing a Malefactor who favours Theion (it's a shard-hopping game, see). I'm eyeing Invincible Creator Authority, because the idea of just going "lolno" to Holy effects has its appeal.

How would you guys make that charm work? What sort of minimum Essence should it have? Would it be Permanent, or require activation?

[Lochar]

Essence 3, Sorcerous, 5-8ish mote commitment cost, "Only works on Holy charms used by creatures at or below your Essence"

Theon, at Essence 10 doesn't really care about that last line.


That would be my take on it, offhand.

[omegalith]

Official site as in the official boards - Revlid's just a guy who puts out damn good homebrew.

Yeah, whist I certainly have no issue with good homebrew -I still have the PDF's for The Gates of Hell for D&D 3.5 somewhere- A release of official content is more exciting to my currently not actually playing the game situation as it allows for more discussion on the setting.

Hence why I asked.

[omegalith]

I just want an Elloge set.

Oramus. If I had to pick one I'd like to see the mechanics of, it's the guy who's powerset consists of deciding what is and is not real.

Though he is the eldest and heavily implied to be the most powerful Primordial with the only known limitation of being unable to manipulate his own form, so his abilities might ultimately be a little excessive.

Maybe only after you start buying into the Cosmic Principle charm tree though, it's not like the usual essence 2-5 stuff would show his full potential.