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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

    The answer most people are going to give is NO, BAD.
    The answer I would give you is that it should be E6 or higher, and the target has to meet all prereqs, and can only learn charms that both you have, and he has two essence HIGHER than the prereqs for.
    (Or if it's only granting charms he could learn anyway, then he only has to meet prereqs, since it's just a training time-bypass)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    1. Solars are all about swapping the fluff. If they weren't bound by the human aesthetic, I would already be a dragon-man doing various solar things through conjured Icefire inventions.
    Why not ? Canon example of posthuman Solar is queen K'tula. All tentacly and stuff. Non canon example is my most successful Exalted character ever a Night Caste who spent some time in the Wyld and then was played as classic red dragon. Were it not for the fact that ST got married Creation would be mine.
    Last edited by Rikandur Azebol; 2012-10-23 at 12:41 PM.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    The answer most people are going to give is NO, BAD.
    The answer I would give you is that it should be E6 or higher, and the target has to meet all prereqs, and can only learn charms that both you have, and he has two essence HIGHER than the prereqs for.
    (Or if it's only granting charms he could learn anyway, then he only has to meet prereqs, since it's just a training time-bypass)
    The writers seem to agree with you for the most part:
    GIFTS OF GREATER GLORY
    Cost: —; Mins: Essence 4; Type: Permanent
    Keywords: Obvious
    Duration: Permanent
    Prerequisite Charms: Scoured Perfection of Form

    ...

    The bestowed Charm need not be one that the Infernal knows or is even capable of learning, but it must be one that the target is naturally capable of learning and already meets all required trait minimums and prerequisites for.

    ...
    Last edited by Kobold-Bard; 2012-10-23 at 12:48 PM.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

    Quote Originally Posted by tonberrian View Post
    You mean aside from the charm that already grants charms? In The Broken Winged Crane? I mean, if you're granting other charmsets, that's different enough to warrant its own discussion.
    Oh. That already exists?

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobold-Bard View Post
    The writers seem to agree with you for the most part:
    I'm one of very few people who seems to like the concept of charmshare. xD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

    That's not charmshare: that's simply a training effect that allows the person in question to get charms, rather than simple abilities, attributes, and such.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    That's not charmshare: that's simply a training effect that allows the person in question to get charms, rather than simple abilities, attributes, and such.
    The one I was suggesting didn't have to be native charms.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki Akuma View Post
    Oh. That already exists?

    ...Welp, this is what I get for not paying much attention to Cecelyne before.
    Hey, it happens to the best of us. You come up with this really cool idea for a charm, and then BAM, it hits you - it was so cool, that the writers already wrote it!
    The name is "tonberrian", even when it begins a sentence. It's magic, I ain't gotta 'splain why.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

    Regarding Fluff: Rule 0. There are no Sacred Cows. This is your story.

    Continue with cliches as you like.

    Quote Originally Posted by tonberrian View Post
    Hey, it happens to the best of us. You come up with this really cool idea for a charm, and then BAM, it hits you - it was so cool, that the writers already wrote it!
    This is, I think, a good thing. It means that your mind is working in the same way which means you likely understand how that particular charmset is supposed to work enough to see where the logical points of expansion. If you are trying to get a physical perfect defense out of linguistics you should be an Infernal playing with Elloge charms, because that isn't how it works for ability Exalts.

    I think that is the actual seduction of Infernals, the understanding of what things can do is expanded drastically. A solar could make some archery charms that improve their short range combat ability (Legolas stabbing with the arrow first sort of thing.) An infernal could make an Adorjan charm that shoots love into someone's heart. (To be fair, Sidereals are often as weird as Infernals. They are just weird across the board instead of weird toward a theme.)
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

    Quote Originally Posted by Exthalion View Post
    I think that is the actual seduction of Infernals, the understanding of what things can do is expanded drastically. A solar could make some archery charms that improve their short range combat ability (Legolas stabbing with the arrow first sort of thing.) An infernal could make an Adorjan charm that shoots love into someone's heart. (To be fair, Sidereals are often as weird as Infernals. They are just weird across the board instead of weird toward a theme.)
    The infernal couldn't do that, as Adorjan is against all ranged effects. As a melee effect, or possibly a heretical effect it might work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    The one I was suggesting didn't have to be native charms.
    Then it's so broken it makes Zeal look like good charm design.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

    Quote Originally Posted by Exthalion View Post
    (To be fair, Sidereals are often as weird as Infernals. They are just weird across the board instead of weird toward a theme.)
    Yeah. Grab someone's fate, tie it to your weapon, and use it as a slingshot and autoaimer simultaneously.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    Then it's so broken it makes Zeal look like good charm design.
    Thus proving my point. Most people hate Charmshare.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

    Except aesthetics, what's the point of making Infernal Relics?

    They take the same effort as making a normal artefact (say an Orichalcum Daiklaive) and soaking it in Vitriol, except that the Infernal relic version doesn't offer a Magical Material bonus.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

    Quote Originally Posted by Qwertystop View Post
    Yeah. Grab someone's fate, tie it to your weapon, and use it as a slingshot and autoaimer simultaneously.
    What's the charm for that?
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobold-Bard View Post
    Except aesthetics, what's the point of making Infernal Relics?

    They take the same effort as making a normal artefact (say an Orichalcum Daiklaive) and soaking it in Vitriol, except that the Infernal relic version doesn't offer a Magical Material bonus.
    I'm moderately sure that an Infernal relic does, in fact, still provide the magical material bonus of the object it was before being prepared. The reason to do it is to attune to various magical materials at proper harmonization costs instead of doubling everything.

    *EDIT*
    Quote Originally Posted by Doran View Post
    What's the charm for that?
    Capstone Sidereal Archery.
    Last edited by Friv; 2012-10-23 at 02:36 PM.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

    It's difficult to import magical materials into Malfeas, for a start.

    Also, it's the only way to make Hellforged Wonders, which grant access to spirit charms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Friv View Post
    I'm moderately sure that an Infernal relic does, in fact, still provide the magical material bonus of the object it was before being prepared. The reason to do it is to attune to various magical materials at proper harmonization costs instead of doubling everything.
    No, that's baptising a Creation-made artifact in vitriol. Infernal relics are artifacts made within the Demon Realm to begin with, and usually aren't constructed out of one of the six magical materials.
    Last edited by Yuki Akuma; 2012-10-23 at 02:38 PM.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

    Quote Originally Posted by Friv View Post
    I'm moderately sure that an Infernal relic does, in fact, still provide the magical material bonus of the object it was before being prepared. The reason to do it is to attune to various magical materials at proper harmonization costs instead of doubling everything.
    Traditional artefacts affected by Vitriol provide an MM bonus, but Infernal Relics themselves don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoEP: Infernals p.171
    ...

    Many infernal relics follow the same general forms as Creation-made artifacts. They can differ significantly in material, shape and ornamentation while retaining the same functions—an infernal daiklave may be shaped from throbbing black iron and inlaid with runes of yellow jade that spell out the third secret name of Kimbery, but barring any special enchantments, it’s still a daiklave.

    Infernal relics can reproduce most of the powers available from Creation made artifacts. They provide no magical material bonuses, nor can they generate Holy effects, but other abilities are fair game. The player of an Infernal character may purchase or construct any common lesser wonder, artifact weapon or artifact armor (see Exalted, pp. 380-381 and 385-391) as an infernal relic. Other artifacts may be used as templates for infernal relics at the Storyteller’s discretion.

    ...
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

    Quote Originally Posted by Doran View Post
    What's the charm for that?
    Unobstructed Blow, from Violet Bier of Sorrows Style.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Thus proving my point. Most people hate Charmshare.
    It's not that I hate it. But that charm allows a single person to make N+1 people with access to Exalted charms, which utterly breaks the setting. And, if I have to chose between the setting and a charm idea/mechanics that is mildly interesting, I'm going to chose the setting.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki Akuma View Post
    It's difficult to import magical materials into Malfeas, for a start.
    Only as hard as learning Constructive Convergence of Principles. Or just build in Creation.

    Also, it's the only way to make Hellforged Wonders, which grant access to spirit charms.

    ...
    That's a fair point however, I didn't consider that. Thanks.

    Are there any advantages to Infernal Relics themselves, or are they just so you can spend more dots to turn them into Hellforged Wonders?
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

    There's also, you know, the relics we already have? That have bonuses comparable, but different than, the MM bonuses?
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

    Quote Originally Posted by Qwertystop View Post
    Unobstructed Blow, from Violet Bier of Sorrows Style.
    The charm text on the wiki says its an unarmed attack? Unless there is another charm that allows you to treat weapon / bow attacks as unarmed ones.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Oh god yes.
    Can I sig that?
    Feel free.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    It's not that I hate it. But that charm allows a single person to make N+1 people with access to Exalted charms, which utterly breaks the setting. And, if I have to chose between the setting and a charm idea/mechanics that is mildly interesting, I'm going to chose the setting.
    Oh, whoops.
    It would only work on things that already have charms.
    And since mortals are capped at E3, even if they did count, the best they could get hold of are E1 charms.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

    Quote Originally Posted by Doran View Post
    The charm text on the wiki says its an unarmed attack? Unless there is another charm that allows you to treat weapon / bow attacks as unarmed ones.
    Nah that bit was just a forgetting on my part.


    On another note: For the purposes of Generalized Ammunition Technique, is it possible to increase the length of one's arms and the size (or just weight) of one's fists?
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

    Quote Originally Posted by Qwertystop View Post
    Nah that bit was just a forgetting on my part.


    On another note: For the purposes of Generalized Ammunition Technique, is it possible to increase the length of one's arms and the size (or just weight) of one's fists?
    On that topic, is it possible to use yourself as a projectile?
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

    Quote Originally Posted by Exthalion View Post
    On that topic, is it possible to use yourself as a projectile?
    Not with Generalized Ammunition unless you can manage to fold yourself such that you are the length of your arm, and all of your weight is in your fist. Or you become weightless.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

    Quote Originally Posted by Doran View Post
    The charm text on the wiki says its an unarmed attack? Unless there is another charm that allows you to treat weapon / bow attacks as unarmed ones.
    Many Missiles Bow Technique. Uses a prayer strip to triple the range of your bow shots for the scene as it's basic effect, and also allows you to transform your shots in flight into things like the following for one mote apiece:

    - Boulders etc. Want to shoot someone with a suddenly appearing ACME Anvil? Now you can, and it becomes unblockable as well.
    - Glass, so the enemy has to make a perception test to keep track of it, otherwise it becomes unexpected.
    - Love, so you fire against a target of their Dodge MDV, and if you hit they suffer an Intimacy of love for the first person they see that will remain strong for about a week.
    - Grain, so that a lovely patch of tasty food sprouts where you shoot.
    - Fire, which is somewhat self explanatory, but always fun to exploit.
    - Health. You hit them, and they regain a number of health levels equal to the Sidereal's archery score. Doesn't work on Aggravated.
    - Precipitation. Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow...

    Sidereals. They're just weird.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobold-Bard View Post
    Only as hard as learning Constructive Convergence of Principles. Or just build in Creation.
    Most people who live in Malfeas can't learn Primordial charms or visit Creation whenever they please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doran View Post
    The charm text on the wiki says its an unarmed attack? Unless there is another charm that allows you to treat weapon / bow attacks as unarmed ones.
    Attacks made with form weapons count as unarmed attacks where martial arts charms are concerned.

    There has to be a martial art that treats bows as a form weapon.

    There is a charm that lets you treat form weapons from one martial art you know as form weapons for any other martial art you know (but I forget the name).

    Ergo...
    Last edited by Yuki Akuma; 2012-10-23 at 04:09 PM.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki Akuma View Post
    Most people who live in Malfeas can't learn Primordial charms or visit Creation whenever they please.



    Attacks made with form weapons count as unarmed attacks where martial arts charms are concerned.

    There has to be a martial art that treats bows as a form weapon.

    There is a charm that lets you treat form weapons from one martial art you know as form weapons for any other martial art you know (but I forget the name).

    Ergo...
    If there isn't such a martial art, there is an easy reskin of one of the Flame Piece ones.
    Many, many thanks to azuyomi244 for the avatar.

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