General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

[Rikandur Azebol]

What would happen to the solar and sidereal shards if humanity went extinct?

Solar shards would float indefinitively, until someone matching their specifications happens eventually as they have ETERNITY for that. Siddy shards are tied to Fate, thus they would simply reassign and I think in factor of chances slightly better than Solar ones.

Loonar Shards are the most mutable ones, but as Canon says, beings without compatible souls can't Exalt. Sure, if animals of your story have human-alike souls (because normal animals from Exalted have only the perishable P'o soul) then they would be fully legible for Exaltation.

Except for the Solar ones, these are quite picky. When compared with Lunar ones. Only twin-souled mortals, preferable un-Enlightened, non-CoD's etc.

[Fortuna]

In fact, the extinction of humanity followed by a fortuitous Wyld mutation giving a certain class of equines split souls is precisely the story behind the Ponyxalted setting which is slowly coming together.

[Rikandur Azebol]

How is the Ponyxalted faring ? Did gods exist still there ?

[aetherialDawn]

Ponyxalted is coming along well! There's an occasional hiccup... I thought that the split souls happened for a totally different reason, for instance, and I'll need to clear that up.



As for the Gods, they still exist as a group. There's just... fewer of them kicking around.
Please feel free to draw your own conclusions as to why, although the answer is pretty obvious once you see it.

[Rikandur Azebol]

How the Kejop Thejak called it, careful pruning ?

At least gods don't cause so much trouble as Exalted. You could simply program their fate to die.

[Kobold-Bard]

What would happen to the solar and sidereal shards if humanity went extinct?

Lytek would flip his lid because human extinction means he loses his place in the Yu Shan hierarchy since no Humans = no Exalts. From that point it's just a matter of badgering the appropriate beings (be they Gods, Yozi, Dragon Kings or Autobot) until they make at least 700 more Humans and/or alter the Exaltation Shards so that they can bind with non-Humans.

[aetherialDawn]

Lytek would flip his lid because human extinction means he loses his place in the Yu Shan hierarchy since no Humans = no Exalts. From that point it's just a matter of badgering the appropriate beings (be they Gods, Yozi, Dragon Kings or Autobot) until they make at least 700 more Humans and/or alter the Exaltation Shards so that they can bind with non-Humans.

Altering the Exaltation shards has not historically been terribly effective at relaxing the binding requirements.

Also, if humanity just outright disappeared, unless some god has a special Panoply charm to make more out of nothing I think Lytek's lid-flipping will be lost amongst the collective lid-flipping of all the prayer going away.

[Lochar]

I can see now a party of Lytek, the Shogun of Artificial Flight, and a few other gods that depend on the things mortals do raiding First Age biogenesis labs to create new humans.

So long as the Well of Souls hasn't been destroyed, that is.

[Exthalion]

Or, someone with a WST technique, such as Gaia, just takes a break from whatever they are doing and makes more. The first 700 or so Exalt more or less instantly leaving the one who did this with an army of doom since they got to pick the new human's motivations.

Among other things, Sol could spend 1 mote and have She Who Lives in Her Name do it. (All things considered, she is probably the most likely to not do anything too egregious if the command is worded precisely enough.)

[Kobold-Bard]

Or, someone with a WST technique, such as Gaia, just takes a break from whatever they are doing and makes more. The first 700 or so Exalt more or less instantly leaving the one who did this with an army of doom since they got to pick the new human's motivations.

Among other things, Sol could spend 1 mote and have She Who Lives in Her Name do it. (All things considered, she is probably the most likely to not do anything too egregious if the command is worded precisely enough.)

Could you recover Terrestrial Exaltation from Human extinction, eg. could a Neomah increase the likelihood of Dragonblood Exaltation in a Second Edition Human from 0 to 1? Or are they gone for good in that situation?

Maybe Gaia can grant a Breeding score through some Panopoly Charm, or Scoured Perfection of Form can grant it as a positive mutation?

[omegalith]

Among other things, Sol could spend 1 mote and have She Who Lives in Her Name do it. (All things considered, she is probably the most likely to not do anything too egregious if the command is worded precisely enough.)

"It Took Four Thousand, Seven Hundred And Fifteen Re-Evaluations Of Potential Loopholes To Give Them This Little Free Will. What Remains Is Of Course Sickening, But I Feel It Was Nonetheless A Worthwhile Endeavor To Rewire Their Emotions To Derive More Intense Pleasure From Maximized Efficiency Than From Their Primitive Reproductive Impulses."

[Rikandur Azebol]

Kobold-Bard, all it takes is Five Elemental Dragons to do it again. ^^

[Turalisj]

Kobold-Bard, all it takes is Five Elemental Dragons to do it again. ^^

The Five Dragons have absolutely nothing to do with the Terrestrial Exaltation.

[Rikandur Azebol]

The Five Dragons have absolutely nothing to do with the Terrestrial Exaltation.

Go check your memory then. If canon didn't changed behind my back the dragon souls of Gaia do have everything in common with Terrestials.

[Turalisj]

If you make the claim, it is your responsibility to back it up.

[Kobold-Bard]

Go check your memory then. If canon didn't changed behind my back the dragon souls of Gaia do have everything in common with Terrestials.

As I recall, the 5 Dragons have the same influence over Terrestrial Exaltation that the Incarnae do over Celestial; they were the template for them and they have some honorary authority but no actual power over it.

[Friv]

We're in Houserule territory.

Whether or not the Five Dragons are capable of replicating Exaltation is a question that has been left open, probably rather deliberately. Thus, it's really up to the individual ST about what would happen to the Dragon-Blooded if humanity was obliterated.

I will say that granting Breeding is something that should not be doable by Charms that grant Backgrounds or mutations. It's too powerful and too easy a fix for the Dragon-Blooded lineage problems.

[Rikandur Azebol]

As far as I know, Terrestial Exalted (as there is no Terrestial Exaltations like Lytek could confirm) are propagated by blood ties. Right ?

Thus were there a need, like order from Gaia, the Five can drop their full-time jobs and go produce more of them. Because Terrestials are somewhat modified God-Bloods and that's it.

EDIT: At least in my opinion. Similarities are too great to ignore. And Turasjil it is You who made claim that Elemental Dragons have nothing to do with Terrestials, remember ? Where's your proof then ?

[Volthawk]

Terrestrials aren't just simply descendants of the Five Dragons. That's the thing.

[Maugan Ra]

I've always been a bit confused by Breeding, honestly. In some sources, Breeding is a relatively new thing, as careful marriages and eugenics programs have been increasing the strength of the Terrestrial blood through each generation. In other sources, at one time every Dragon-Blood had Breeding 5 or so, and it's only because they started sleeping with mortals that the purity of the lines have been decreasing.

[Friv]

I've always been a bit confused by Breeding, honestly. In some sources, Breeding is a relatively new thing, as careful marriages and eugenics programs have been increasing the strength of the Terrestrial blood through each generation. In other sources, at one time every Dragon-Blood had Breeding 5 or so, and it's only because they started sleeping with mortals that the purity of the lines have been decreasing.

Both of those facts are true.

Originally, every Terrestrial had Breeding N/A, and their children always Exalted. Over the course of the First Age, they gradually diluted their bloodlines by occasionally sleeping with mortals. Over the course of the Shogunate, they did it even more, and immediately post-Contagion they did it a freaking lot because most dragon-bloods were dead.

Since then, the Empress has been using careful marriages and eugenics to improve the Breeding of her Dynasty back to a reasonable level.

[Exthalion]

I've always been a bit confused by Breeding, honestly. In some sources, Breeding is a relatively new thing, as careful marriages and eugenics programs have been increasing the strength of the Terrestrial blood through each generation. In other sources, at one time every Dragon-Blood had Breeding 5 or so, and it's only because they started sleeping with mortals that the purity of the lines have been decreasing.

Both in a way. At one time they all had breeding N/A before they had intermingled with mortals at all. Then they started sleeping with everything that moved and it rapidly fell off. Now the Left Hand of Power and the Empress are arranging to have the Dynasts breed more pure strains to regain a breeding score. It is possible that Breeding N/A cannot be regained and that breeding five is the best that can be done now.

As for the new Terrestrials, there is a possible way it might be regained. There are humans who have become gods. If they had any of the dragon's blood in them, then by mating with humans they could reintroduce the bloodlines. After that, you get into the genesis labs and breeding manses to try to get something sufficient to get an Exaltation out of it.

Edit: Siderealed!

[Turalisj]

Since then, the Empress has been using careful marriages and eugenics to improve the Breeding of her Dynasty back to a reasonable level.

And by eugenics, Friv means inbreeding. Marrying your cousin who exalted as a fire aspect is a common- Oh god. Tenshi Muyo: Exalted. Someone needs to do this.

[Lochar]

Oh god. Tenshi Muyo: Exalted. Someone needs to do this.

Pure win. That is all.

[Turalisj]

You could even do it with the cast being the unwitting inheritors of the Incarna's power after-the-end of Creation.

[Rikandur Azebol]

Dragon blooded suddenly popping up on WoD Earth would be super fun.

"John ! Don't burn the neighbourn's cat !"

"Don't talk to me like that mom ! I hate you !"

"Aaa ! My son is on fire !"

EDIT: And another option for Terrestials with sullied Breeding, asides from in-breeding, is breeding with Elementals of the proper sub-type.

[RPGuru1331]

Cousin marriage isn't harmful within a generation, and I'm pretty sure the concept of overdoing it is known to the Realm. The reason the west has a cousin marriage taboo is that the nobility did it so much that they actually had inbreeding occur (which takes successive generations), not because cousin marriage is automatically harmful. It's also really uncommon to marry anyone close to you in the Realm, because that isn't politically useful. marrying out of your House (and thus out of your immediately tracked extended family) is normal.

[Lix Lorn]

Could you recover Terrestrial Exaltation from Human extinction, eg. could a Neomah increase the likelihood of Dragonblood Exaltation in a Second Edition Human from 0 to 1? Or are they gone for good in that situation?

Well, there is the 'terrestrial bloodline' merit. While bloodlines are dumb, it would make sense to be able to up that to breeding for the purposes of making new exalts.

EDIT: And another option for Terrestials with sullied Breeding, asides from in-breeding, is breeding with Elementals of the proper sub-type.

Yes, but pretty much everyone thinks this is a stupid rule.

[Friv]

Yes, but pretty much everyone thinks this is a stupid rule.

To be fair, it's an okay rule as long as doing so is not strictly superior to marrying an actual Dragon-Blood of decent Breeding. The idea of properly-aspected elementals being able to up Exaltation rates compared to a mortal parent is fine. The dumb rule is the one where elementals give you a 100% Exaltation rate.

[Rikandur Azebol]

Why properly aspected Elemental as a breeding partner shouldn't be better than a human breeding partner for a Dragon-Blooded Lixie ?

Also there is that Manse power that give increased chance of having Dragon-Blooded child that is conceived inside. Auspicious something. One wonders IF it works on normal mortals as well ?

And now a question about Lunars. Since Exalted Wiki died some time ago, and I learned it only recently having not visited that site for over 4 months, now I am in a pinch. Because there was listed a Knack, I vaguely remember, requiring Essence 3 and Appearance 3 that let your Lunar assume War Form without manifesting Mutations (that would probably mean you just look like really big and Hulked out human) inherent from Spirit Shape. I am almost sure it wasn't fan-made but something from Ink Monkeys or other officially canonical source.

Could someone please help me out here ?