General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

[Lix Lorn]

He said what? Yes, hope lives!

It amuses me that this gets less of a reaction than 3e spoilers. xD

Yeah, he said that, but it was quite some time ago.

[Ronnoc]

I have to admit the possibility of KoC returning excites me considerably more than third edition. KoC is what got me into exalted in the first place.

[Lix Lorn]

I have to admit the possibility of KoC returning excites me considerably more than third edition. KoC is what got me into exalted in the first place.

...me too, actually. Good times.

[Qwertystop]

...me too, actually. Good times.

Same here.

[Weimann]

3e is as dust to me compared to the return of KoC. If I had to choose one, I'd take the comic in a heartbeat.

Luckily, I wouldn't have to chose, but none the less.

That said, I'm still pretty excited over the Charm spoiler. John said there'll be new ones daily, which I take to mean that the propaganda machine has started rolling and which might in turn mean that we'll see a February release.

[tonberrian]

KoC isn't what got me into Exalted. It's what brought me back, though. I had the core book for at least a year before I really started getting into Exalted.

[Drascin]

I have to admit the possibility of KoC returning excites me considerably more than third edition. KoC is what got me into exalted in the first place.

Pretty much. Jukashi's take on Exalted is so much neater than most of the actual Exalted .

[Andreaz]

Pretty much. Jukashi's take on Exalted is so much neater than most of the actual Exalted .

Well, it is one story instead of all stories, and with a cast smaller than "everyone". It could only be neater.

[Lix Lorn]

Plus, you don't need to pretend half the rules don't exist to make it work right.

[omegalith]

I was first introduced via Keychain as well... and I'd say what makes me prefer it is that it covers the same kind of serious themes but in a slightly more lighthearted manner. I can't really see Secret getting as much leeway as she does there by the default second edition rules.

Also the Orichalcum caste colossus is awesome and adorable.

[Lord Raziere]

yea, I'm a Keychain guy to.

when I got an actual look at Exalted well….

I think its obvious to you all by now how badly that went.

[Doran]

Hm second charm up now in a second thread. As has been said in it, the trend of charms allow you to be awesome, rather than the charm itself being awesome looks really promising. Charm synergy is pretty sweet too.

I'm really hoping they run a quickstarter version of the rules, as when running a 3-4 hour one-off, I ended up ditching all the 2.5 mechanics for Quixalted.

[Gensh]

Hm second charm up now in a second thread. As has been said in it, the trend of charms allow you to be awesome, rather than the charm itself being awesome looks really promising. Charm synergy is pretty sweet too.

I think they look like less esoteric Sid Charms, so I'm more disoriented than holding an opinion about them.

[Tavar]

I think they look like less esoteric Sid Charms, so I'm more disoriented than holding an opinion about them.

How so? Do you mean the lack of the sheer power of 2ed social stuff? If so, it should be noted that Social stuff as a whole is getting nerfed, and for good reasons. The old system gave everyone mind control guns, and then a limited number of perfect counters to those guns. That didn't leave room for nuance or good stories, however.

[Gensh]

How so? Do you mean the lack of the sheer power of 2ed social stuff? If so, it should be noted that Social stuff as a whole is getting nerfed, and for good reasons. The old system gave everyone mind control guns, and then a limited number of perfect counters to those guns. That didn't leave room for nuance or good stories, however.

It's more Skillful Imposition Method than Taboo-Inflicting Diatribe. The latter is simply because "temporary" used to be a Sid thing. SIM, however, is indirect. Solar Charms have always seemed to have background themes of ego and directly beaming glorious sunlight into your eyes. It seems odd for a Solar Charm to instead draw its power from something that already exists - in this case a custom that he must know about beforehand. Aside from that, it's good for the group loremonkey, but not quite so much for the secret agent style of diplomat Exalted typically sees, and again, having to work around odd restrictions was a Sid thing.

[Plague of Hats]

"You have to know the culture and attitudes of the people you talk to if you want to play on their culture and attitudes" doesn't strike me as an odd restriction. And I'm not sure where "secret agent diplomat" is coming in as some predominant form of Exalted diplomacy. Especially if "Solar Charms have always seemed to have background themes of ego and directly beaming glorious sunlight into your eyes."

Anyway, this is all built on top of a form of social interaction rules that are about actual social interactions instead of a weird version of physical combat with some traits switched out. Glorious sudden revelations of a god-king are still very much a thing, but now without very potent magic these proselytes must actually speak to the people, not at them. "Everybody eat poop" is finally going to be a meaningfully hard sell in contrast to "Give me small aid for a great reward" within the context of the system. Unless you're talking to the poop-eater clan or something, I guess.

[Maugan Ra]

I'm quite fond of Skillful Imposition Method. If only because I love all the possible uses of a charm that lets you force someone to actually, meaningfully care about their cultural legacy and local laws. It sounds useless, until you realise exactly how many different laws and social customs there are which have fallen somewhat out of favour lately, but which still exist in the public mind.

I'm also greatly pleased by the reworking of the social system. Because in 2e, it always struck me as rather odd that having an intimacy of My Baby (Unconditional Love) only imposed a +1 MDV modifier when resisting a social suggestion to sacrifice said baby to the local god, which could be negated if the guy asking you to do so was slightly more attractive than you were.

[Gensh]

"You have to know the culture and attitudes of the people you talk to if you want to play on their culture and attitudes" doesn't strike me as an odd restriction. And I'm not sure where "secret agent diplomat" is coming in as some predominant form of Exalted diplomacy. Especially if "Solar Charms have always seemed to have background themes of ego and directly beaming glorious sunlight into your eyes."

It's just that I've always seen Bond-style diplomacy: Eclipse walks in, says something generically suave to get everyone's attention, then does whatever he needs to do while the Dawn or Twilight causes some sort of distraction, intimidates the opposing party, or carries in some sort of extravagant bribe. Or in other words, I'm just surprised that their social Charms aren't "Malfeas Stealth Charms." I suppose that's more a function of 2e's introductory Presence Charm being Lelouch's geass, though.

[Andreaz]

It's just that I've always seen Bond-style diplomacy: Eclipse walks in, says something generically suave to get everyone's attention, then does whatever he needs to do while the Dawn or Twilight causes some sort of distraction, intimidates the opposing party, or carries in some sort of extravagant bribe. Or in other words, I'm just surprised that their social Charms aren't "Malfeas Stealth Charms." I suppose that's more a function of 2e's introductory Presence Charm being Lelouch's geass, though.

1) This is socialize, which has always been about working within social systems (and most charms even attempted to do it) and tended to be suave and scandalous.
2) Intimidation and Bribery are important leverages that this charm does not use. This one is an emotional leverage in itself.
3) Hypnotic Tongue Technique is not that geass. If your mdv wasn't beaten you don't give a damn to what he said. Taboo-Inflicting Diatribe was the geass.

[Gensh]

3) Hypnotic Tongue Technique is not that geass. If your mdv wasn't beaten you don't give a damn to what he said. Taboo-Inflicting Diatribe was the geass.

You know, I was about to insist that any socially-focused Solar was bound to beat most people's MDV, but then I remembered I once had a player who completely failed every time, even against mortals.

As for technicalities, HTT is indeed resistible with only a little willpower expenditure, unlike the geass, but it is certainly a single command that the target doesn't remember afterward.

[Lix Lorn]

I was first introduced via Keychain as well... and I'd say what makes me prefer it is that it covers the same kind of serious themes but in a slightly more lighthearted manner. I can't really see Secret getting as much leeway as she does there by the default second edition rules.

Also the Orichalcum caste colossus is awesome and adorable.

That's nothing.
Guess what name was featured in the list of canonical alchemicals?
Elegant Nova of Progression.
Go on, go check. I'll wait.

Hm second charm up now in a second thread. As has been said in it, the trend of charms allow you to be awesome, rather than the charm itself being awesome looks really promising. Charm synergy is pretty sweet too.

I'm really hoping they run a quickstarter version of the rules, as when running a 3-4 hour one-off, I ended up ditching all the 2.5 mechanics for Quixalted.

I think they look like less esoteric Sid Charms, so I'm more disoriented than holding an opinion about them.

I kinda agree.

So far, everything we've seen, while smaller scale and perhaps more sensible, hasn't really felt exalted.

[Tavar]

Do you consider There Is No Wind to not be Exalted either? Because, at least for TID, it's pretty similar.

[Lix Lorn]

(shrugs) They seem different to me, although a lot of solar combat charms could use a little more cinematic-ness.

[Tavar]

Both are, at their essence, charms that have an action automatically succeed.

Personally, I think the biggest problem is that people are comparing the newer charms to the 2.0 social charms, which were tied to a horrible system, and generally pretty horrible in an of themselves.

As for cinematic quality, what do you mean there? The wording makes it unclear.

[Maugan Ra]

Well, they did say one thing they were going for was building the system so that your character was enhanced by their charms, rather than your character just being a box full of charms that you applied to different situations.

The old Taboo Inflicting Diatrabe, for example, was something you fired off when you wanted something about a culture to change, and it basically rendered everything else irrelevant. The new one enhances your attempts to influence a society by exerting pressure on it's leader. Less outright powerful, since it does require you to put in the legwork and actually get into the good books of the local ruler first, but I can't really say that I find that especially bad. Actually, I think I prefer it like that.

[Exthalion]

Well, I would like there to be an option to undermine the society out from under the leader. Firebrand from the wilderness crying out against the sins of the ruler sort of thing. (Which is also a Malefactor sort of thing to do, but it is totally in theme for Solars. And perhaps some Abyssals as well.)

[Maugan Ra]

I'd imagine that comes under the Presence or Performance trees, but it certainly does seem like a very Solar thing to do. Maybe Presence if you're demonstrating how you, personally, would make a better leader than the current one (or to inspire the citizenry to follow your glorious example) and performance to specifically enhance attacks against the current regime.

Of course, it's difficult to speculate how this might work with only contextual glimpses of the social system to work from.

[Tavar]

Well, it could also be socialize. The difference is that TID is working with an established structure. That story would first be about making your own structure, and I presume there would be charms to aid in that.

[Lix Lorn]

Both are, at their essence, charms that have an action automatically succeed.

Personally, I think the biggest problem is that people are comparing the newer charms to the 2.0 social charms, which were tied to a horrible system, and generally pretty horrible in an of themselves.

As for cinematic quality, what do you mean there? The wording makes it unclear.

I mean something that makes you imagine something awesome when you read it. TID doesn't. It says I can persuade someone who cares about me to risk their hide. Intellectually, yeah, this is really useful. But it doesn't conjure a mighty vista in my head, like Heaven Thunder Hammer, Crowned With Fury, Dancing Ember Stride or Writhing Blood Chains.

Generally, I like charms that let you do something that could not be done otherwise. To be fair, this probably means Solars are gonna be kinda bland to me.

[Weimann]

Generally, I like charms that let you do something that could not be done otherwise. To be fair, this probably means Solars are gonna be kinda bland to me.

If my prediction is right, that in particular will be a thing they'll cut down drastically on. All in all, awesomeness will likely stem more from how players use their characters than how they use their Charms.