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    Default [3.P] Hawkeye Build

    Hey, playground, I'm toying with an archer build (because we don't have enough archery threads already) that crafts his own 'trick' arrows. The build I have in mind currently involves taking at least 4 levels in your mundane archery class (whatever it is) and then taking a level in artificer, and then resuming your normal archery class. The trick (and the part I'm unsure about, RAW wise) involves taking the feat Practiced Spellcaster to qualify for taking Craft Magic Arms and Armor. Would that work?

    Assuming it wouldn't, how would you go about making a Hawkeye-esque character that was both an astounding archer and crafted his own arrows?

    Disclaimer- I'm fully aware that this isn't optimized. I'm building to a concept and not to max damage/attacks per round/whatever.

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    Default Re: [3.P] Hawkeye Build

    Arms and Equipment Guide, and Races of the Wild for arrow types

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    Default Re: [3.P] Hawkeye Build

    Quote Originally Posted by silverwolfer View Post
    Arms and Equipment Guide, and Races of the Wild for arrow types
    Yeah, I know where to find all the cool mundane arrow toys and stuff; serrenwood and razorfeathers and all that, but I'm specifically asking about the Practiced Spellcaster feat in conjunction with Artificer, as well as asking build advice.

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    Default Re: [3.P] Hawkeye Build

    Y'know, it's important to explain which Hawkeye, sometimes.
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    Avatar by Mr. Saturn

    Magic... magic never changes

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    Default Re: [3.P] Hawkeye Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    Y'know, it's important to explain which Hawkeye, sometimes.
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    Mihawk is known as Hawk-eyes, or The Hawk-eyed Man.

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    Default Re: [3.P] Hawkeye Build

    XD fair point. The one that hangs out with the avengers on a regular basis is the one to which I was referring.

    Hmm....I wonder if I can convince my DM to allow the feat that lets you switch Monk Wisdom bonuses to Intelligence bonuses, and then go Artificer 1/ Zen Archer Monk X. It's not like Monks have a good capstone, tbh, even in Pathfinder.

    List of feats I'd need- Kung Fu Genius (or whatever it is), Practiced Spellcaster, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, every single archery feat ever, and after that, probably the cost reduction feat a few times. That's...a lot of feats. I can see classing out of Monk after 6 levels to go into Fighter. Artificer 1/Zen Archer 6/Fighter 2 or 4/More Stuff Later

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    Default Re: [3.P] Hawkeye Build

    What about something like this?

    Human Rogue 1/Ranger 4/Chameleon 2
    Able Learner [Human], Point Blank Shot [1st], Precise Shot [3rd], Practiced Spellcaster (Ranger) [6th]

    You'll be able to use the floating feat from Chameleon to pick up a temporary crafting feat, have a BaB of +4, and some awesome skills.

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    Default Re: [3.P] Hawkeye Build

    Personally, I'd go for Rogue5/Sorc with either Practiced Caster or Master Craftsman to keep Caster Level up for the purpose of crafting feats, then jump into Unseen Seer. Never forget to pick up some Sniper Goggles to sneak attack at any distance, as well as get bonuses to it at close range.

    Rogue5 into Artificer for a few levels to get the Crafting feats might also work well, though I don't know how much of an investment you're willing to put into it.

    If you went Sorc1 at 1st level and picked up Practiced 'Caster you could pick up Craft Wondrous and Craft Arms and Armor at 3rd and 5th level (presuming PF feat progression, otherwise 3rd and 6th) and use Rogue Talents to pick up Combat Feats like Precise Shot, Far Shot, or the like. Unseen Seer will progress your Sneak Attack (as with Truestrike you can get a +20 to your attack rolls easily several times per day, firing from well out of sight) and use divination spells (unseen seer's specialization) for targeting purposes, and cap off the last few levels after Unseen Seer by dipping into Arcane Archer to place spells on the arrows as well as weapon enhancements.

    So levels 1 to 6 are basically Rogue with a few spells to provide sight and attack/damage bonuses as well as utilities if needed, using standard feat slots for crafting feats and rogue talents spent for combat feats. 7 to 12 will open up your standard feats for either more combat or more crafting, depending on which you feel the character is lacking in. 13 to 16 will begin granting more emphasis on sniping from absurd distances, but that's where the dips into Arcane Archer should also start, and 17 to 20 will probably out-do Hawkeye in terms of distances and difficulties that can be dealt with, as well as avoiding some of the pit-falls that come with a martial-focused approach via magical utilities.

    That all said, I Think you can also do this with a Rogue/Artificer build if you so desire so long as Artificer can qualify for Unseen Seer. Arcane Trickster might also work for the purpose of spell-progressing+sneak-attack-progressing PrC if you'd rather keep to PF prestige classes.

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    Default Re: [3.P] Hawkeye Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Feralventas View Post
    Personally, I'd go for Rogue5/Sorc with either Practiced Caster or Master Craftsman to keep Caster Level up for the purpose of crafting feats, then jump into Unseen Seer.
    See, the problem I was having while I toyed with that build was that it's Sorcerer based, which means limited capacity for spells known, which really limits what you can make with crafting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feralventas View Post
    Rogue5 into Artificer for a few levels to get the Crafting feats might also work well, though I don't know how much of an investment you're willing to put into it.
    Well, Artificer gets Craft Arms/Armor at 5, so I'd have to go that far in assuming I weren't using Practiced Caster and a 1 level dip. I'm generally disinclined to put levels into Rogue and ohcrap I just remembered that you can use their talents on combat feats >.< My objection was going to be that, for an archer, they're very feat starved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feralventas View Post
    If you went Sorc1 at 1st level and picked up Practiced 'Caster you could pick up Craft Wondrous and Craft Arms and Armor at 3rd and 5th level (presuming PF feat progression, otherwise 3rd and 6th) and use Rogue Talents to pick up Combat Feats like Precise Shot, Far Shot, or the like. Unseen Seer will progress your Sneak Attack (as with Truestrike you can get a +20 to your attack rolls easily several times per day, firing from well out of sight) and use divination spells (unseen seer's specialization) for targeting purposes, and cap off the last few levels after Unseen Seer by dipping into Arcane Archer to place spells on the arrows as well as weapon enhancements.
    I don't really like the idea of basically any caster but Artificer for this =/ the rest of them them don't feel right for Hawkeye.

    Given what you've said, I'm leaning towards Artificer 1/Rogue 19, or perhaps Artificer 1/Zen Archer 6/Rogue 13, using the Kung Fu Genius feat (DM approved) to switch the Monk's Wis bonuses to Int.

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    Default Re: [3.P] Hawkeye Build

    I am very sad... I saw the title and thought you were making a healer.
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    Like one, that on a lonesome road
    Doth walk in fear and dread,
    And having once turned round walks on,
    And turns no more his head;
    Because he knows, a frightful fiend
    Doth close behind him tread.
    The Rime of the Ancient Mariner -- Samuel Coleridge Taylor

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    Default Re: [3.P] Hawkeye Build

    Wizard can work in place of Sorcerer, also keying off of Int, and I believe that there's at least one crafting-specific archetype available, and it'll have much more use in the long-term than Artificer, but if you'd rather take Infusions than Spells, that's your play-style choice.

    Though for that matter, Wealth By Level should get you plenty of resources for picking up scrolls to craft things for yourself, and with the Sniper Goggles you could essentially just take Master Craftsman at 5th level and pick up the other crafting feats as you go, spending 1st, 3rd, 5th, and rogue talent feats on ranged combat feats.

    Zen Archery works alright, but would be best if you were meaning to focus on boosting your Unarmed damage as well as your weapons, though I suppose that might be your objective. Monk's robe, Monk's belt, and maybe a couple other items or options to raise your Monk level can make actually advancing in the class moot.

    Though that said, you could also just go pure Zen Archer and go the Master Craftsman rout that way instead. You could still take Kung-Fu Genius for both fluff and to focus Int for skill points.

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    Default Re: [3.P] Hawkeye Build

    Inquisitor Gauntlets / arrows of spellstoring + blunted tips = Healing spells when shot in the ass

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    Default Re: [3.P] Hawkeye Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Feralventas View Post
    Wizard can work in place of Sorcerer, also keying off of Int, and I believe that there's at least one crafting-specific archetype available, and it'll have much more use in the long-term than Artificer, but if you'd rather take Infusions than Spells, that's your play-style choice.

    Though for that matter, Wealth By Level should get you plenty of resources for picking up scrolls to craft things for yourself, and with the Sniper Goggles you could essentially just take Master Craftsman at 5th level and pick up the other crafting feats as you go, spending 1st, 3rd, 5th, and rogue talent feats on ranged combat feats.

    Zen Archery works alright, but would be best if you were meaning to focus on boosting your Unarmed damage as well as your weapons, though I suppose that might be your objective. Monk's robe, Monk's belt, and maybe a couple other items or options to raise your Monk level can make actually advancing in the class moot.

    Though that said, you could also just go pure Zen Archer and go the Master Craftsman rout that way instead. You could still take Kung-Fu Genius for both fluff and to focus Int for skill points.
    Aight, so, given that I'd prefer not to have levels in an actual casting class (I realize that's not optimal, but like you said, play-style choice), it looks like I've got the following options:

    Artificer 1/Rogue 19. This gets 10d6 Sneak Attack and what amounts to combat feats every even level. Pretty nice, but no direct bonus to archery.

    Artificer 1/Zen Archer 19. This gets a ton of archery related buffs that aren't really available in other places, but loses out a little on feats. It still gets quite a few, though.

    Zen Archer 20. Wow, I never thought I'd be seriously looking at straight-classing a monk. This requires an extra feat, but you get the nice monk stuff a level earlier.

    Hm. It looks like the Rogue options are better for high single target damage, but the Zen Archer builds are better for putting a ton of arrows in the air at once. I wonder if a 2 level Monk dip would be worth it.... Artificer 1/Monk 2/Rogue 17. Honestly, what's tempting me the most about the Monk levels is that Flurry ability.

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    Default Re: [3.P] Hawkeye Build

    Okay, so, after looking more at the Zen Archer archetype, I've decided that it's not really worth taking after level 8. That leaves me with 11 levels to play with, and I've been eyeing Ninja or Rogue pretty heavily. Ninja looks like it outclasses Rogue in pretty much every department. Is there any reason it doesn't? I'm about 98% sure that I can convince my DM to apply the Kung Fu Genius feat I've already taken to Ninja to switch it to Int, mostly because I already have a ki pool scaling off of Int with it.

    I've also been looking at Monk 1/Artificer 1/Monk 2-8/Artificer 2-12, which would be a much more item focused build.

    Recommendations? I realize I was earlier against SA damage, but that's largely a holdover from 3.5, where SA was a lot less useful.

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    Default Re: [3.P] Hawkeye Build

    So, my DM just shot this idea in the face. His reasoning was "you're taking a level of Artificer, and then a bunch of levels in a really weak class. Clearly munchkinry is afoot." and then banning everything but Pathfinder specific -.- Anyway. Does anyone have a good way to pull of a decent archer that crafts trick arrows for specific situations given those limitations? As tempted as I am to show up with a tricked-out Wizard to show him real munchkinry, I won't do that to the group.

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    Default Re: [3.P] Hawkeye Build

    It is too bad you can not simply play a Chameleon; it can craft every type of arrow it wants and persist all of the Ranger spells that make archery useful.

    But since you cannot go that route, I think you are left with Arcane Archer. The Pathfinder version has a nerfed version if Imbue Arrow, but a much better version of Enhance Arrow which stacks with the bow's effects.

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    Default Re: [3.P] Hawkeye Build

    Do you have access to dreamscarred press's Psionics Expanded line?

    If so, the Marksman may do what you want - it has native psionics, and thus can in fact craft its own (enchanted) bow and arrows with no shenanigans required.

    If not, while I'm less familiar with it, I've heard that psychic warriors make good archers, and they're on the pathfinder SRD.
    Beginnings usually happen over trifles... even if it's a coincidence...

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    Default Re: [3.P] Hawkeye Build

    Quote Originally Posted by RFLS View Post
    So, my DM just shot this idea in the face. His reasoning was "you're taking a level of Artificer, and then a bunch of levels in a really weak class. Clearly munchkinry is afoot." and then banning everything but Pathfinder specific -.- Anyway. Does anyone have a good way to pull of a decent archer that crafts trick arrows for specific situations given those limitations? As tempted as I am to show up with a tricked-out Wizard to show him real munchkinry, I won't do that to the group.

    ...Myrmidarch Magus into Arcane Archer? Your BAB will suffer a bit without some levels in fighter, but you will be able to use spell strike at range, can eventually gain the associated craft skills, and best of all Arcane Archer does suck any more. Sure, you still lose three caster levels if you take all ten level of the class, but you're a Magus, so its not like you're worried about getting 9th level spells at this point anyways.
    "If your heart is fearful throw away fear; if there is terror in it throw away terror. Take your axe in your hand and attack. He who leaves the fight unfinished is not at peace." -The Epic of Gilgamesh

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    Default Re: [3.P] Hawkeye Build

    I think this will do the trick better than what you're considering - http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/genera...ftsman---final

    With this feat you only need to keep your Craft (Bows) skill high to make magic arrows. As a bonus you get the correct skill to make nonmagic trick arrows too.

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    Default Re: [3.P] Hawkeye Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Twilightwyrm View Post
    ...Myrmidarch Magus into Arcane Archer? Your BAB will suffer a bit without some levels in fighter, but you will be able to use spell strike at range, can eventually gain the associated craft skills, and best of all Arcane Archer does suck any more. Sure, you still lose three caster levels if you take all ten level of the class, but you're a Magus, so its not like you're worried about getting 9th level spells at this point anyways.
    Quote Originally Posted by avr View Post
    I think this will do the trick better than what you're considering - http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/genera...ftsman---final

    With this feat you only need to keep your Craft (Bows) skill high to make magic arrows. As a bonus you get the correct skill to make nonmagic trick arrows too.
    ....huh. Well...derp >.< that's exactly what I'm looking for. Damn. Thank you.

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