LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!

[Zorg]

It's not just that gay guys make a lot more noise?

That's what she said..?


And for those saying they want my clothes - you can't have them! Limited editions, hand crafted, I got the last ones, all mine! Mine mine mine! Mwahahaha!

[Lentrax]

Getting a little disillusioned with the LGBTsoc. There are some lovely people, but it's about 90% cis gay guys. There are a few girls, and as for representatives of the trans* umbrella, as far as I can tell there's me and one FtM.

You still have us hon. Although I'm unsure of our demographic, mostly.

I do know we are 100% hilarious, 100% weird, and 100% off the wall action.

[Asta Kask]

We have no trans men, for some reason. We had one who popped in a while ago and whom I still worry about from time to time, because he sounded really desperate. (If you read this, please PM me because I am a worry wart).

[SiuiS]

Then why is it only called OTD, and not OCTD?

Because, like I said, obsession and compulsive behavior are different. They would have to be the same for the name to require compulsion in it.

That cheered me up a bit, too bad it died in my arms, though.
They said it wasn't my fault, but I think it was...
Still not sure

I'm glad it helped. I can't really say anything meaningful about it though.

I actually got the laughs from that xD

And an idea for a Werewolf character xD

Oh, heavens. You're not changing Byorn, right?
...
Oh hey, Byorn's an Alpha Male. Does he use nail armor? Painted nails are an alpha male thing now, after all

@Socratov:
Awesome pic!
You might want to go cut your hair, though

Cut your hair, though

cut your hair

I don't think that's it (or at least all of it), as I've seen it from people who aren't just horny teenagers.

I dunno. Juvenile behavior from adults doesn't make it any less juvenile. "Everyone wants to have all the sex, so bisexuals must want to have all the sex with everybody" is the basis of the behavior usually. It's the same idea that leads to assumptions that asexuals are liars and that homosexuals are depraved. I don't see how it can be accepted that it's motive for other things but not for this. Although I am not saying that it is the sole, or even prime, motive.

Clearly it's working well for us! We have the right mix of curiosity and self-preservation.

I think it's separate drives. Curiosity, breeding and spite. We have replacements waiting in the wings, we want to see new and interesting things, and when others go and look at new and interesting things we all wait with baited breath to laugh at their misfortune and tell the next generation "That stone, there? That's Abram. Yeah, this one time, he..."

Now we understand how both neophilia and neophobia go hand in hand, and why babies get some amount of satisfaction out of watching misfortune of others. It's keeps it in their memory enough to pass on.

Abso****inglutely! Welcome aboard!

The best phrasing!

I kind of love this idea, despite all its gendernormative crap.

Vindication yay!

Getting a little disillusioned with the LGBTsoc. There are some lovely people, but it's about 90% cis gay guys. There are a few girls, and as for representatives of the trans* umbrella, as far as I can tell there's me and one FtM.

That's unfortunate, but... It makes a certain amount of sense really. Isn't transsexuality a relatively rare thing? I mean, even .0001% is going to have a lot of individuals but still. That and homosexuality being a much more commonly accepted thing means visibility isn't nearly as much a problem for them.

Or do you mean that the soc has an air of... I don't know, diminishment? I am unfamiliar with the words but I trust you know what I mean. Although I shouldn't, given my track record of clear discourse >_>;

[Asta Kask]

Some LGB people want to ditch the Trans people because of the Social Stigma. It's good to know such prejudice would never take hold in the trans community.

[Mina Kobold]

Getting a little disillusioned with the LGBTsoc. There are some lovely people, but it's about 90% cis gay guys. There are a few girls, and as for representatives of the trans* umbrella, as far as I can tell there's me and one FtM.

Perhaps there are a lot of people who are afraid to go or do not know of the society? It might help to try to raise awareness, try to see if there is anything you can do to make the group more varied and inviting. ^_^

Then again, it may just be unlucky demographics. In that case, I can only do this:

*Hugs and offers Yuletide cookies*

________

In other news, I kind of finished my comic for the Transgender Day of Remembrance.. Just thought you would like to know... Maybe? Eep! >_<

[Astrella]

Some LGB people want to ditch the Trans people because of the Social Stigma. It's good to know such prejudice would never take hold in the trans community.

Mrr, people have a tendency to kick at other groups no matter what. The face book group I'm in for the low lands (not my trans youth group, those peeps are awesome) are pretty hostile, well, not hostile towards non-binary folks but very misunderstanding and sorta 'you'll never be accepted like that so suck it up'-ish on occasion which completely baffles me coming from trans* people.

[KenderWizard]

Getting a little disillusioned with the LGBTsoc. There are some lovely people, but it's about 90% cis gay guys. There are a few girls, and as for representatives of the trans* umbrella, as far as I can tell there's me and one FtM.

This seems to be a very common problem. I suspect its because gay guys have the most privilege and recognition, so it's less of a big deal to be out as a gay cis guy than as trans? So they're more likely to be in visible spaces like IRL clubs? Hard to say, though, and that's not to say that plenty of gay gays don't have it really hard.

You still have us hon. Although I'm unsure of our demographic, mostly.

I do know we are 100% hilarious, 100% weird, and 100% off the wall action.

We seem to have a couple of gay, a couple of bi, several MtF, a few around the genderqueer place, and a handful of straight allies / heteroflexible / straight-but-not-narrow. Of the people who post frequently and make their identity known.

[Asta Kask]

Mrr, people have a tendency to kick at other groups no matter what. The face book group I'm in for the low lands (not my trans youth group, those peeps are awesome) are pretty hostile, well, not hostile towards non-binary folks but very misunderstanding and sorta 'you'll never be accepted like that so suck it up'-ish on occasion which completely baffles me coming from trans* people.

If you can talk yourself into believing there's no use trying, then you don't have to. It's a place where you can survive, even if you can't flourish.

[Astrella]

I'm just really annoyed that out of all people these folks can't understand how hypocritical what they say sounds.

-----

I think the reason you find more trans women here than trans men has to do with the fact that gaming is still (though improving) and definitely was a hobby that was more appropriate for MAAB than FAAB peeps? There's bunches of socially anxious trans gamer girls out there.

-----

The facebook group I mentioned actually has more transmaculine activity than transfeminine. It's about an even cut in my trans youth group. I don't think you can count GitP as a representative sample of society. (Not that anyone is claiming such.)

[Asta Kask]

And it might have been a release mechanism for some. Playing a girl isn't like presenting as a girl, but it's better than nothing.

[Astrella]

And it might have been a release mechanism for some. Playing a girl isn't like presenting as a girl, but it's better than nothing.

Hm hm. I've been playing female characters in games for as long as I remember. Even went with the whole "you just do it cause you are attracted to women" excuse even though I just felt uncomfortable playing male characters.

Being anonymous can help. Like, on one of the forums I used to pretty big on people read me as a girl and I really liked that back then even if I didn't really get why.

[Absol197]

And it might have been a release mechanism for some. Playing a girl isn't like presenting as a girl, but it's better than nothing.

I'm pretty sure it definitely was for me. Considering my second character ever was female, and all my characters that didn't have a story reason for being male were female, there's a definite trend.

A friend of mine has a rule where he always switches between playing a male character, then a female character. When he first told me, my thought was something along the lines of, "That's a great idea! That means I can play female characters without seeming weird, and all I have to do is play a male character in between!" I tried it for a while, but I tended to break the pattern. Guess which way .


~Phoenix~

[monkyman640]

Some LGB people want to ditch the Trans people because of the Social Stigma. It's good to know such prejudice would never take hold in the trans community.

I'm assuming sarcasm here, but this is a thing... You might have to scroll a bit, some people spam the tag.

[Astrella]

I don't think DCS is really comparable to the abuse trans* people suffer at the hands of society. Not to mention that aside from it being a slogan held by a minority of people it's something that not put into action, contrary to violence on trans* people, which is what today is about.

Edit; I don't use it myself because it something I don't feel comfortable with, but I do find it incredibly interesting how say on lgbt+ subreddits you get huge discussions when it comes up but violence or discrimination towards trans people doesn't garner much attention.

Edit2; I don't think DCS is an okay thing; threatening any group is wrong.

Edit3; Sorry. I just really dislike how often it's thrown around as an excuse to be discriminatory towards trans peeps. :/ (Not saying that's what you're intending here.)

[Lentrax]

I'm pretty sure it definitely was for me. Considering my second character ever was female, and all my characters that didn't have a story reason for being male were female, there's a definite trend.

A friend of mine has a rule where he always switches between playing a male character, then a female character. When he first told me, my thought was something along the lines of, "That's a great idea! That means I can play female characters without seeming weird, and all I have to do is play a male character in between!" I tried it for a while, but I tended to break the pattern. Guess which way .


~Phoenix~

I guess in that direction. *points up*

The same goes for me. I tend to play a girl, because I tend to think of myself as a girl. I may not present that way, but eh. Life and all that.

*hugs for some, cake for others. Love for all.*

[Mono Vertigo]

Heya, guys! I didn't die or something, I just experienced something that I believe non-scientists call "rich social life".
"Social life" being a bit of an euphemism, as we went to an anime con. There was goddamn Vriska. I should tell Hussie his trolls managed to start invading France. And I should damn him for this, too.
Also, there were video games involved, so not that much social life all in all.
... moving on.


For once, my otherwise unrelated news happen to be tangential to a subject discussed fewer than 5 pages ago! Lucky me! Our association (which has a very high proportion or LGBT members, including BF and myself) will have a stand in two anime cons next year, and prepare cosplays accordingly. For the first, I'll crossplay as Naoto and BF will cosplay as Shinji (the whole group should have cosplays from Shin Megami tensei games), and for the second one, we'll go respectively go as Fayt and Albel from Star Ocean.
Yes, you read it right, I'm the one crossplaying a FtM character, and he willl wear more skirt than I. Not counting the hair. He's not planning to use a wig.
And we can entertain yaoi fans while being a straight couple but that's much less unusual at a con, I suppose.
So that's... I wouldn't say good news because it's not going to improve the world, but amusing news.

[Absol197]

I guess in that direction. *points up*

The same goes for me. I tend to play a girl, because I tend to think of myself as a girl. I may not present that way, but eh. Life and all that.

*hugs for some, cake for others. Love for all.*

You got it in one !

And yes, Life. It's a doozy, but it can be pretty cool, of you try!

Heya, guys! I didn't die or something, I just experienced something that I believe non-scientists call "rich social life".
"Social life" being a bit of an euphemism, as we went to an anime con. There was goddamn Vriska. I should tell Hussie his trolls managed to start invading France. And I should damn him for this, too.
Also, there were video games involved, so not that much social life all in all.
... moving on.


For once, my otherwise unrelated news happen to be tangential to a subject discussed fewer than 5 pages ago! Lucky me! Our association (which has a very high proportion or LGBT members, including BF and myself) will have a stand in two anime cons next year, and prepare cosplays accordingly. For the first, I'll crossplay as Naoto and BF will cosplay as Shinji (the whole group should have cosplays from Shin Megami tensei games), and for the second one, we'll go respectively go as Fayt and Albel from Star Ocean.
Yes, you read it right, I'm the one crossplaying a FtM character, and he willl wear more skirt than I. Not counting the hair. He's not planning to use a wig.
And we can entertain yaoi fans while being a straight couple but that's much less unusual at a con, I suppose.
So that's... I wouldn't say good news because it's not going to improve the world, but amusing news.

I should go to Cons more. Apparently there was one here in Denver just recently, but I didn't know about it, so I missed out. It sounds like you guys had/will have a lot of fun, so awesome !
Aaaand...I'm willing to admit that I am a bit of a yaoi fan...
*snaps picture*
~Phoenix~

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Getting a little disillusioned with the LGBTsoc. There are some lovely people, but it's about 90% cis gay guys. There are a few girls, and as for representatives of the trans* umbrella, as far as I can tell there's me and one FtM.

This seems to be a very common problem. I suspect its because gay guys have the most privilege and recognition, so it's less of a big deal to be out as a gay cis guy than as trans? So they're more likely to be in visible spaces like IRL clubs? Hard to say, though, and that's not to say that plenty of gay gays don't have it really hard.

Depends on the area and the context. My high school GSA was composed of roughly 2/3 lesbians, almost 1/3 bi girls, 1 bi guy, and a handful of allies for the years I was there. Not having any gay guys out in high school was one of the reasons I didn't come out then; even though the school was in a fairly liberal area and the student body was fairly enlightened, there was still an atmosphere of "it's okay for girls to be non-heteronormative, it's weird for boys to be like that" and I certainly wasn't going to come out then if neither my school and my family was going to be supportive. I hear that it's much better these days, but I haven't been back to visit in a while so I don't know for sure.

The one at my college was something like five bi girls, a handful of lesbians, three trans* girls, two gay guys, and a partridge in a pear tree a bunch of allies, and neither of the gay guys were ones I wanted to hang out with--not because they were the "wrong kind of gay" or anything like that, just that one of them was an outdoorsy history major with whom I shared very little in common and the other had been in some of my classes and was incredibly annoying. Not having many out gay guys in college was more annoying than troubling--come on, guys, the male:female ratio was at least 7:1, there should have been gay guys in every major, why were there so many of you in biology and nuclear engineering and practically none in computer science!?

So who knows, there might be another LGBT* group near you where the ratios are reversed. There probably aren't many such groups around (unless you live near the Gay Capital of the USA like I do ) but it might be worth it to look around; even if the other groups are farther away than you'd like, you can at least go once or twice to try to meet people.

[gunnar11]

Getting a little disillusioned with the LGBTsoc. There are some lovely people, but it's about 90% cis gay guys. There are a few girls, and as for representatives of the trans* umbrella, as far as I can tell there's me and one FtM.

Hahah, yeah sure, I could only wish.

But seriously though, it seems that way because the cis-guys are far more extravagant in their life. They attract more attention, and thus seem like being more.
It's like the media does on teenagers misbehaving, or muslims killing everyone. They get more attention, but not every teenager misbehaves, and not every muslim is a terrorrist.

Oh, heavens. You're not changing Byorn, right?
...
Oh hey, Byorn's an Alpha Male. Does he use nail armor? Painted nails are an alpha male thing now, after all

No nail armor.
Although I won't change Byörn, don't worry.
My next character, though, might be a homophobe. With hidden feelings, maybe. A sensory type!

Some LGB people want to ditch the Trans people because of the Social Stigma. It's good to know such prejudice would never take hold in the trans community.

Of course it won't in the trans community. That's like asking the jews in the middle-ages if they want to be excluded from the society.

What's really good to know is that most of the LGB people don't want to ditch the Trans people.
Or at least: I don't!



By the way: Have you guys seen the new Bond-film? The scene with Bond flirting with the villain. I love it

[Absol197]

What's really good to know is that most of the LGB people don't want to ditch the Trans people.
Or at least: I don't!

Well that's good, because that's four-and-a-half out of the seven people in our Werewolf game. You'd be very lonely without us .


~Phoenix~

[Kindablue]

I dunno. Juvenile behavior from adults doesn't make it any less juvenile. "Everyone wants to have all the sex, so bisexuals must want to have all the sex with everybody" is the basis of the behavior usually. It's the same idea that leads to assumptions that asexuals are liars and that homosexuals are depraved.

Or that aromantics smell nice

[Lix Lorn]

Also it's transgender day of remembrance tomorrow, does anyone have any special plans?

It is?
Uh.
I'm gonna be extra loud and flirty and flamboyant in my poetry seminar?

One of the people on My Transsexual Summer was proud to be trans. She said she loved it, liked the "edge" it gave her (her words, not mine). I believe she hadn't had the surgery, and never wanted to, because she liked herself the way she was. She was gorgeous and open and gregarious, and I thought she was pretty cool... But she was also the exception.
edit: the exception in the pride, liking it, edginess and to an extent the openness and gregariousness, not in gorgeousness and coolitude and not wanting surgery. Thought I'd better clarify that...

i... find this really hard to understand. I don't get how someone can say their body is Wrong, and not want to change it. Lucky them, I guess, but... yeah, doesn't make sense to me.

(If you read this, please PM me because I am a wonderful person).

Fixed.
(hugs)

[SiuiS]

Some LGB people want to ditch the Trans people because of the Social Stigma. It's good to know such prejudice would never take hold in the trans community.

Which way is your sarcasm slanting?

I think the reason you find more trans women here than trans men has to do with the fact that gaming is still (though improving) and definitely was a hobby that was more appropriate for MAAB than FAAB peeps? There's bunches of socially anxious trans gamer girls out there.

There's also that subcultures tend to avoid acting like mainstream cultures. At least anecdotally. So odds are the less-represented groups simply prefer a bit o privacy. I know there are points where I'd rather I didn't put quite so many personal details out, but no going back now.

Well that's good, because that's four-and-a-half out of the seven people in our Werewolf game. You'd be very lonely without us .


~Phoenix~

I'd make a joke about it cutting down on the paperwork though, but perhaps it would cut it back too much? We'd lose two or three STs as well, would we not?

[KenderWizard]

*snip cosplay etc*

Sounds awesome! We should have some kind of gamers+LGBT++cosplayers club!

[Mono Vertigo]

Hah, I didn't know that day came tomorrow.
... I promise I'll hang out here! Yeah, huh, that's not much of an engagement.

Sounds awesome! We should have some kind of gamers+LGBT++cosplayers club!

Definitely!

Also, I learnt there was a LGBT student association over here. That's always nice. In Gent, we found such an organization near a main street totally at random, and noticed how unlikely it would be to simply stumble on it over here in France. I haven't tried to come in contact with it for three reasons:
- I'm not currently a student (hah!)
- My presence is not necessary nor helpful, and I'm just content staying here because I'm not actually that community-minded
- I'm pretty sure I don't want to find out how much do they know about asexuality, let alone if they think I'm just a hetero begging for attention

Still, however justified that last point is, I wish them good luck. The anti-gay-marriage bigots have been surprisingly loud and numerous lately. (Even more surprisingly, the protests are not just ridiculous in their content, but also in their execution. Sorry, it's all in French.)

[Astrella]

Hah, I didn't know that day came tomorrow.
... I promise I'll hang out here! Yeah, huh, that's not much of an engagement.

Definitely!

Also, I learnt there was a LGBT student association over here. That's always nice. In Gent, we found such an organization near a main street totally at random, and noticed how unlikely it would be to simply stumble on it over here in France. I haven't tried to come in contact with it for three reasons:
- I'm not currently a student (hah!)
- My presence is not necessary nor helpful, and I'm just content staying here because I'm not actually that community-minded
- I'm pretty sure I don't want to find out how much do they know about asexuality, let alone if they think I'm just a hetero begging for attention

Still, however justified that last point is, I wish them good luck. The anti-gay-marriage bigots have been surprisingly loud and numerous lately. (Even more surprisingly, the protests are not just ridiculous in their content, but also in their execution. Sorry, it's all in French.)

Glad you had a good time!

Oh, that didn't happen to be at Casa Rosa? There's like a "Pink House" in several major cities in Flanders, my latest trans youth group meeting was at the one in Antwerp.

Oh, yeah, I heard about that. If you go by the common stereotypes interpretative dance is a really weird way to oppose lgbt+-ness. ;p

[Heliomance]

Hahah, yeah sure, I could only wish.

But seriously though, it seems that way because the cis-guys are far more extravagant in their life. They attract more attention, and thus seem like being more.

No, it doesn't seem that way, it is that way. We have lunch in one of the student union bars each week, and there's about 5 girls that show up regularly, of which you might get 2 or 3 each week - 1 today - whereas there's always about 20 guys there, and not always the same ones.

That's unfortunate, but... It makes a certain amount of sense really. Isn't transsexuality a relatively rare thing? I mean, even .0001% is going to have a lot of individuals but still. That and homosexuality being a much more commonly accepted thing means visibility isn't nearly as much a problem for them.

Or do you mean that the soc has an air of... I don't know, diminishment? I am unfamiliar with the words but I trust you know what I mean. Although I shouldn't, given my track record of clear discourse >_>;

No, they're perfectly accepting of everyone. It's just... well, someone described the society to me as being essentially the Gay Men's Dating Association, and if the amount of gossip that I hear at the lunches is to be believed, it seems that the hookup graph of the guys is nearly complete.

I guess it's self-perpetuating, really. The guys look at the soc and go "hey, lots of gay guys, awesome!", whereas the lesbians look at it and go "there's no girls there, it's pointless."

[Mono Vertigo]

Glad you had a good time!

Oh, that didn't happen to be at Casa Rosa? There's like a "Pink House" in several major cities in Flanders, my latest trans youth group meeting was at the one in Antwerp.

I'm almost sure it was not called Casa Rosa, but I might have been exceptionally unobservant that day.

Oh, yeah, I heard about that. If you go by the common stereotypes interpretative dance is a really weird way to oppose lgbt+-ness. ;p

What a coincidence, I dislike interpretative dance! Just like bigotry! All the things I hate go together hand in hand!
No, seriously, I've seen gay prides that were straighter than that. On the bright side, creative protestations such as this one are not taken seriously by anybody.

[monkyman640]

Spoiler

Show

I don't think DCS is really comparable to the abuse trans* people suffer at the hands of society. Not to mention that aside from it being a slogan held by a minority of people it's something that not put into action, contrary to violence on trans* people, which is what today is about.

Oh, its definitely not nearly as bad. When I first saw it I was vacillating between anger at it and amusement at how stupid it seemed. I was just pointing out that there was at least a small portion of the trans* population that did have strong prejudices.

Spoiler

Show

Edit; I don't use it myself because it something I don't feel comfortable with, but I do find it incredibly interesting how say on lgbt+ subreddits you get huge discussions when it comes up but violence or discrimination towards trans people doesn't garner much attention.

That is a really good point. /sigh... Why can't we all just get along, right?

Spoiler

Show

Edit2; I don't think DCS is an okay thing; threatening any group is wrong.

Edit3; Sorry. I just really dislike how often it's thrown around as an excuse to be discriminatory towards trans peeps. :/ (Not saying that's what you're intending here.)

Its definitely not an excuse, and I get what you are saying.