(PF) Zen archer vs archer ranger: Thoughts?

[ProudGrognard]

Greeting fellow gamers

Recently I have acquired an interest for archer builds. Much belatedly, I came across the zan archer monk build. I was wondering on this archetypes relative strength as an archer-skill monkey vs the archer ranger we all know and love. Both have access to stealth and climb and both can be the ranger artillery.

Who do you think would fill the role better? What role they can play relatively to each other in a party?

Zen archer

Archer ranger

[meemaas]

Zen archer all the way. Once you can get a guided composite bow it outclassed the ranger in every way, especially since you don't need the rapid shot manyshot feats that the ranger requires.

[StreamOfTheSky]

They both have their strengths. Zen Archer is better purely for archery, Ranger offers a lot more fringe benefits.

Both get IPS at 6, which is awesome. Zen Archer gets Point Blank Master at 3; Ranger has to wait till 10 (he could get it at 6, but then he can't get IPS at 6, which does not compute).


Zen Archer gets wis to attack, but still needs dex for feat pre-reqs, and...all the other stuff dex adds to. Ranger's need for Wis is no greater than Zen Archer's need for dex, so this doesn't reduce Multiple Ability Dependence appreciably compared to Ranger. Zen Archer gets more bonus feats and Weapon Specialization. Zen Archers flurry saves feats on rapid and manyshot and ultimately results in more attacks, but at level 7, a Ranger is getting Manyshot a level before the monk is getting his 2nd flurry attack. Spending ki for extra attacks gives a big edge to the monk. Being able to threaten adjacent with unarmed (and later, bow) can be helpful, too.

Ranger has real, genuine full BAB, so he doesn't have to wait on feat requirements like the Zen Archer. He has more skill points and class skills. He gets SPELLCASTING, including gravity bow. He gets a free meat shield. And a higher HD.

If you want to just plain be good at shooting a bow, be a Zen Archer or Fighter (or Sohei Monk if starting at 6+ and you ignore the paizo boards). If you care about skills and spellcasting and other side things, Ranger is better.

[RFLS]

For raw damage and number of arrows in the air at once, Zen Archer wins out. For skill monkeying....ranger, obviously. Those 6+int skill points and wider skill list kinda make it the case.

Of course....*pushes pet build* you can always fake being a skill monkey by dipping Artificer 1 early in the build, pumping Craft (Alchemy), and taking Practiced Spellcaster and Master Craftsman. Trick arrows and lots of fun alchemical items.

[gartius]

what i am doing at the moment is zen archer 4/ inquisitor X currently level 9 and am churning out more in terms of power and versitility. they also synergise really well with each other, wis to spellcasting, ac, attacks, initiative (twice if you choose tactics inqusition), however IPS is pushed back for a while.

[grarrrg]

It also party depends what your Max level is going to be.
The Zen Archer loses quite a bit of steam around level 10-ish (level 8 is solid, and an argument can be made for going to level 12). After that you should consider multi-classing.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Level 6 gives IPS, level 8 is another flurry attack.

After that, the class kind of goes flat all the way till level 17, when you can start using Touch of Serenity, Stunning Fist, quivering palm, etc... with ranged attacks. Just my opinion.

If you're multiclassing and going past level 3, I would try to get to 6 ASAP before jumping out, because IPS is just that great. Then maybe come back for another 2 levels later on.

[ProudGrognard]

These must be some of the most comprehensive answers I have ever got. Thanks guys!